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Paul:

I think part of the problem here is that you, Nick and the Beeb are late entrants into a debate that's been going on for some considerable time between bloggers and, in the main, the dead tree press.

To some extent some of the reaction this week has, therefore, carried an element of 'haven't we been through all this before' exasperation.

Bloggers, by and large, fully accept that there are considerable differences between what we do and how we operate and the professional mores and standards of paid journalism. Most of us have no real pretensions of being seen as journalists or even the illusion that we have the necessary skills, although there are some, like Justin at Chicken Yoghurt and Sunny Hundal at Pickled Politics - to name but two, who would more than hold their own in the profession.

We're very much aware of our strengths and our failings.

Where tensions often creep into this 'relationship' between bloggers and journalists is that much of time, when journalists start reflecting on that relationship they have an unfortunate tendancy to come across as being sanctimonious about the whole thing - and there are few things more likely to get right up bloggers' noses than an iffy claim to piety, which is one reason why certain newspaper columnists (La Toynbee and Mad Mel, in particular) tend to get it in the neck almost as a matter of routine.

Yes, I can appreciate you and Nick getting tetchy at accusations of bias and of soft-pedalling stories. However, and I do hate to say this, that's really just something you're going to have to get used to and learn to ignore.

There are many bloggers who will, as a matter of routine, cry foul and make claims of bias because in their world bias means not telling the story exactly how they want it told, which means in a completely partial and biased manner.

That's, sadly, how it works out here with some people, they're so biased in their own view of things that mere impartiality becomes and cause of offense, hence all the flak that come the Beeb's way over things like the reporting of the Middle East and whether you should, or shouldn't, use terms like 'terrorist'.

And that brings us back to the fact that bloggers and their reputations and biases are known quantities - we know, with certain bloggers, that accusations of bias against the Beeb are near enough reflex reactions and adjust our view of what they have to say accordingly.

Part of this also tracks back to Hutton and the perception that's created in some quarters that what happened there has left the Beeb rather gun-shy in some its dealings with government. That whole episode had a bruising effect on perceptions of the Beeb, not because many bloggers think you were in the wrong but rather because what we saw happen was minor defects in reportage used by the establishement to whitewash a far more substantive and important set of issues.

That's left some with the perception, even expectation, that the Beeb will softpedal a little on controversial stories around Ministers, not because it necessarily wants to but because in the back of journalists' minds there has to be the perception that even the most minor and inadvertant error could be jumped on to blow away a whole story, even if the story itself is rock solid. It's an area where, I entirely agree, we have much more margin for error that you guys - the sad part being that it sometimes appears that post-Hutton you have even less margin than usual and may be reacting accordingly.

So yes, there is some frustration at what sometimes looks to be journalistic timidity. British blog culture is, for the most part, very different to
that of our American counterparts, to whom we are often (irritiatingly) compared - we tend to much less politically partisan for one thing - but what we do share with them is a very strong sense of the importance of free expression. Ask most bloggers and you'll find that if there's one thing we'd all happily import from the US then its their First Amendment, and I would suspect many journalists, especially investigative ones, would feel much the same. Where we differ from journalists on this, however, is that we're more inclined to act on that belief in free speech, which is in turn because, I guess, we see ourselves as pretty poor targets for litigation.

There are other differences in 'culture' between bloggers and journalists which tend to spark tensions. Sheer weight of numbers is one, especially when it comes to columnists and op-ed writers where, these days, one comments on matters outside your area of expertise at your own risk as there's no shortage of people out here to pull you up short if you make basic mistakes - you need only follow bloggers' reactions to Polly Toynbee's columns in the Graun to see that at work, especially when she tries her hand at economics.

How columnists and journalists respond to such situations plays a big part in how they're perceived out here - those who're big enough to either concede a point or put up a robust and reasoned defence tend to get a fair bit of respect. The odd one or two who tend to whine a bit and come over as if they just don't like having punters answering back because they're 'professionals' tend to get short-shrift and if anything, make themselves all the more attactive a target in the long run. It's a harsh world out here and we're not overly gentle, especially if some start's playing the 'luvvie' with us.

In that respect, I will say that neither you or Nick have done yourselves any harm with your follow-up pieces this week, which is all to the good.

Ultimately you may well be right about the synergy between blogging and journalism, which I would see as very much a two-way street. We've already been referred to in some quarters as the '4.5th Estate' and the 'court of appeal' for journalism (although that last one is more in relation to the dead trees, where bloggers tend to have a clearer role
in picking up and countering press bias) and somewhere in all that is the key to this relationship, which may well come down a balance between our capacity to speculate and raise and push issues along and your ability to tie up loose ends, sift the signal out from the noise, and arrive a definitive and authoritative account of events. However, in that, I would expect the relationship to remain a little fractious as each of us tries to keep the other on thier toes, so the odd minor spat like this is inevitable.

Bloggers are starting to have an impact, sometimes good, sometimes bad - over the last year there's been the Dilpazier Aslam story which began with Scott Burgess at the Daily Ablution - you can look at that one in different ways depending on your view of Scott's very obvious agenda.

Bloggers were certainly first off the mark on the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill and triggered off the dead trees interest in that. One thing we do seem fairly good at is picking up on issues in legislation, which is the benefit of having many pairs of eyes to watch such things - there's also been an amendment made to the current Police and Justice Bill, at committee stage, which arose out of blogger spotting a badly worded clause and ragging MPs about it - although to be fair, from committee proceedings a couple of the members had spotted the same problem and would have challenged the clause anyway.

And then there's Prescott, the Casino and the Dome, which may come to something or amount to nothing in the long run, but which bloggers are again pushing along to some extent, if only by asking the kind of question which trigger journalists to look a bit more closely at what may have been going on.

Final thought - if the Beeb really do want to build a bridge or two with bloggers, then maybe you ought to think about whether the time is approaching where a blogger could be invited on to the panel on Question Time. We might not have the public profile of some of the non-politicians who ship up on the show, but in some cases we'd there are bloggers who'd make for a much more engaging debate.

Most of us could even manage a whole hour without swearing - at a push - although I don't know if I could absolutely vouch for DK on that score. ;-)

Being a bit less facetious, I would say, if nothing else, QT's producers would do well to swing by a group blog called Slugger O'Toole and take a look next time they start planning a trip to Northern Ireland for the show.

Roberto:

>>> American Bloggers are different with regard to ethnicity and ideology

Strangely enough, so are us Brits.

The point I made about partizenship is certainly a generalisation from which individual may freely consider themselves exempt but, as generalisations go, it does stand up when one looks at the US political blogosphere, which does tend to be far more polarised and partizan than is the case the UK.

For example, were we to transpose the casino story to the US, i.e. on to Cheney rather than Prescott, you would find a large section of right-wing bloggers putting everything they had into trying to dismiss the story out of hand - the slightest error is reportage would become grounds for discounting the whole story as a lie and anyone digging after it would be 'working to an agenda' and at the very least a 'liberal' (near enough a swear word in some right-wing circles) or, even a worse, a communist.

None of this is to say that there aren't many excellent political blogs and bloggers in the US, there are - but too often they get drowned out by the 'my party, right or wrong' crowd leaving the US will a pretty poor 'signal to noise ratio.