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Talk about Newsnight

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Tuesday, 20 March, 2007

  • Newsnight
  • 20 Mar 07, 05:43 PM

Gordon BrownGordon Brown's last budget as Chancellor before he - more than likely - becomes the next PM. We assess what he might have in store for us all tomorrow.

Plus 10,000 British passports were issued as a result of fraudulent applications - in one year. How? And our second look at Iraq, four years on from the invasion. We meet one resident living at the heart of the conflict in the Baghdad Sunni district of Adamiyah.

Comment on below.

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  • 1.
  • At 06:45 PM on 20 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Trailed Prediction:-
1 - 4x4 and larger cars will have road TAX increased under the banner of Green.
So can your guests hazard a guess at when (not if) Ford will transfer Land Rover Production elsewhere?
Obviously the Labour Politics of envy will get it's way, and there is no point Ford producing a product that it's customers will be penalised for buying and using.
Despite the FACT that no money has been spent on local roads for 10 years, and the only suitable vehicle is either a 4 x 4 or a centurion tank, or maybe a hovercraft.
2 - How many more tax's will be increased?
3 - How many fluffy Green tax's will be extended or introduced?
None of us will know until Thursday or Friday - it takes that long to decipherer the gobledy gook speak of Brown the Stalin Clone!

No doubt there will be an announcement of some soviet 5 year plan or other - none of which ever bare fruit. Even a 10 year integrated transport system (2 Jags project) has never seen the light of day.
If any tax's are increased or additional ones invented, then it proves that their much vaunted 'Sustained Economic Growth' statement is total rubbish. If the statement were true then tax revenues would be rolling in - they are not are they.
Because all they have done is put people into the an ever growing Public Sector which has to be paid for by the ever shrinking Private Sector.

Is Gordon a Stalinist - of course he is, take a look at many Labour members history, Marxist, Communist, Socialism - who said something about 'Dark Forces' well Socialist Brown and Co will compound the last 10 years of destruction.
Don't forget, the roots of Dictatorships are those only rooted in Socialism. People have forgot and that is why we are where we are today in Britain.

As for the Passport fiasco - again. Surely no one can express surprise at what is just another failure of Government, to add to the 1,000's already imposed on the population.
This might be a surprise, Osama Bin Laden lives in Berkshire.
Would you really be surprised, shocked or amazed?
The Country is now the biggest off-shore 3rd world skip on the planet.

  • 2.
  • At 08:12 PM on 20 Mar 2007,
  • Robin Jelly wrote:

Brown's disastrous Record
1. Gordon Brown has decimated the Pensions Industry by at a stroke removing the tax reclaim allowance. This nets him £7Billion per year & after 7 years he has robbed the industry of £35Billion. Yet he has the gall to blame the industry. The difference between success & failure is so small that this has had an enormous effect - the old adage applies i.e. "Income £1 expenditure £1.05 - result Misery: Income £1 expenditure £0.95 - result Happiness.
2. He sold something he hadn't got but just invented for £Billions - the "3G" mobile telephone licenses thereby also decimating the Telecoms Industry by forcing them to pay £Billions thereby reducing their profitability & money for investment.
3. We are an Oil Producer and whilst other Oil Producing countries pass the benefits on to their citizens, he takes so much in Tax that we have dearer Petrol than most of Europe who don't produce oil.
4. The total tax taken is now well over 40% of Gross Domestic Product & yet our Hospitals, Education, Roads, Crime & motoring costs are almost the worst in Europe if not the civilised world.
5. Look how many "Stealth Taxes" he has introduced. He treats us like sheep taking the maximum wool with the minimum bleating.
6. I understand he is about to reach his CENTURY. i.e. He has now Initiated 100 new taxes!
7. Now our leading UK car maker produces the Black Taxi.
8. How does he have the gall to maintain that this disastrous performance is a success?
Can the Press & Political Commentators not see through this man who is ruining our once world leading economy when we exported manufactured goods to almost every country?
Finally in his reign Brown has turned the majority of UK citizens into having to pay large amounts of Inheritance Tax – mostly from their House value, instead of passing it on to their children. It wouldn’t be so bad except that our Health Service, Education, Transport, Criminal Activity etc are all much worse than when he took charge.
R. Jelly,
Belfast.

Whilst 10,000 passports were issued to fraudulent applicants in 1 year, my application 10 months ago for a 12-month Entry to UK Visa for a relative was turned down, then won on appeal last year, but is still being withheld. I'm a 75 year-old Englishman (with a crime-free track record of public service) attempting to sponsor my wife's relative to assist me in ill-health, but am made to feel more and more like a 2nd-Class citizen in my own country by this government.

Whilst 10,000 passports were issued to fraudulent applicants in 1 year, my application 10 months ago for a 12-month Entry to UK Visa for a relative was turned down, then won on appeal last year, but is still being withheld. I'm a 75 year-old Englishman (with a crime-free track record of public service) attempting to sponsor my wife's relative to assist me in ill-health, but am made to feel more and more like a 2nd-Class citizen in my own country by this government.

  • 5.
  • At 01:30 AM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • Bob Goodall wrote:

Dear Newsnight

Gordon Brown is criticised for not listening to others, but isn’t that a criticism levelled at many politicians, that they don’t listen to anyone, particularly the electorate once elected,

Peter Hain trotted out the usual line about GB’s record ie I guess by this he is referring to the alleged strength of the economy, a line repeated so frequently these days without being challenged that perhaps even the people saying it believe it, or perhaps its easier for them to sleep at if they can convince themselves that this is the case. The financial problems facing our country, awash as we are in £trillion+ of pounds of debt with a crumbling manufacturing base, and service industries now challenged by overseas competitors may now be so great that our leaders cannot face up to the scale of the mess we are now in.

The people prefer not to be told the truth and punish any politicians foolhardy enough to try to tell them it (in a worldly sense that is) by not voting for them

But this might give some idea of the scale of the problem
The UK trade deficit (goods and services), in 2005 was £47.6 Billion (2004: £39 Billion)
UK balance of payments deficit. In 2005 was £32 Billion. (2004: £24 billion)

At this rate our country is going to go bust. I remember the time when a deficit of £50million in a month was regarded seriously, now everyone just says what a strong economy we have, expectations are stoked up across the nation, people expect more and more, and as far as most people are concerned they have a right to anything they want because the country after all can afford it, because our politicians tell us that it can.

There’s a hook here for your passport story; I would advise anyone to keep their passports up to date, just in case there’s a need to leave rapidly

Please! Last year early in his budget statement, Gordon slipped in the announcement that he would borrow money to be paid back by a chancellor 50 years from now! He spun this with the argument that he was able to do this because the economy was so stable. However if we went to a bank and asked to borrow money and pay it back 50 years from now, we would be shown the door, the back door.

Except of course this is what people needing to buy a home these days are almost forced to do, one of the most startling facts of today’s Britain is that most people starting out have absolutely no chance of buying a home.

Could someone please start asking the right questions and insisting the politicians in power answer them not just talk about the things that suit them.

If Gordon Brown announces (early on) that he intends to borrow money to be paid off long in the future could I please ask someone to challenge him about this, and whether our nation’s ability to borrow and repay money is now starting to slip?

Best wishes
Bob Goodall
www.housepricecontrol.org.uk and www.vetmps.org.uk (now back on line!)

  • 6.
  • At 02:21 AM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

Blair never did detail.

Brown does do detail.

Blair let Brown define & manage domestic policy over 3 terms.

Thus, Gordon's Browns beliefs & methods more impressed onto other government departments (given widened remit of treasury) than virtually any recent modern politician.

The argument is not what Brown will do as PM, we have the evidence of 10 years of him already at the defacto helm.

RECORD:

New Labour program …. OVER TAX, OVER SPEND ... UNDER DELIVER

The UK is labouring under the highest ever taxes & Brown is the architect who indebted the country :(

Someone needs to save not only New Labour from Gordon Brown, but the country from 'Prudence'.

Thank goodness, Lord Turnbull, permanent secretary to the Treasury for four years under Brown, has let some light in on such dubious practice.

Under Comrade 'Stalinist' Brown, the UK will be heading for a long stay in the fiscal gulag.

SUMMARY:

Look to history for a lesson ....

- He and his brother used to sell programmes at the football ground and as a result Gordon Brown says: "You got in free for the second half and they paid you as well" [1]

Not this time Gordon, for god sake, someone blow the whistle !

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1]

We have had Subliminal imagery and messages to manipulate our thoughts and actions,and now we have "in your face" images of Gordon brown on the newsnight website.

The link to newsnight feedback has occasionally(quite often actually) brought me to the image of gordon brown, ( either a link glitch or something more sinister from the higher ups at the Ö÷²¥´óÐã, Sept 06) pouting his lips and his arm in a sideways embrace as if he is kissing someone ,but no one is there,a bit like
the voters at the next general election.
/blogs/newsnight/2006/09/monday_25_september_2006.html

Kiss up all you want Gordon, but we know who you are ,and we ain't buying it.Yes Gordon does tower above the competition,but have you seen the competition lately,well there was Dr Reid MP and who else ,let me think, er, i am scratching my head here, oh yes, was Peter "the tan man "Haine MP making some noises not so long ago, or was that the deputy leadership job he was sniffing at. It would appear Gordon Brown is going to win the labour leadership contest and take over from tony Blair unchallenged as the competition does not exist. Well if Hazel Blears threw her hat in the ring, maybe we might have a contest and a fairer fight, with some fun and entertainment for us. Ah well, Gordons got this one in the bag more or less, but i would love it, if a non entity ,no talent wittering loony such as Hazel Blears for example got Gordon worried in my hypothetical contest vote for the Labour leadership. Gordon wins by a whisker,proving my never ending point that the labour party is made up of below average folk ,who should not be in charge of anything remotely important.(okey ,i exaggerate somewhat,but for the purpose of illustration, it will do)

Question
Do Dr Reid ,Peter haine , Hazel Blears and the rest of the labour motley crew pick up a pay cheque each month? Do they actually get paid for their below average work rate and "skills"? if so, i will be sending a strong worded letter to my MP telling him that i dont work my butt off every waking hour,to contribute taxes ,so as to enable some simpleton to get paid rather handsomely as a member of parliment,whilst i scratch around for the rent. We should all complain for a better quality of individuals to represent us in parliment,let them pass a proficiency test first at least(filter out the prescotts). Just imagine a government with people who are only smart and intelligent and maybe have held down a job or had a career before entering politics , good people with a sense of wanting to serve the people rather than the fools and the selfish we have now. Hey, let me dream will you. God ,will that day ever come.I keep praying, but you don't answer my prayers.

I dont get this "love in" for the Gordon Brown crowning and king making nonsense,which only appears to be within the labour camp numbered at one hundred plus.The last census said that 60 million live in this country( plus the illegals ,so that could be anybodys guess)and 30 million are voters approx,what about them ,eh ,do we not have a say?.
And since when has it been a compliment to be compared to Stalin, well if you are a socialist i suppose it is a compliment. " Hey Bush ,you Nazi... dont take that wrong George,its a compliment"......"Wait a minute Bush,you really are a Nazi". oooooh.
newsnight was back on form tonight.

post script

Kirsty wark was seen moonlighting on Ö÷²¥´óÐã4s Never mind the full stops,a word programme hosted by Julian fellowes ,
so i thought i would give it a watch, kirsty and her team mate Mark Steel were working out some questions, when she conjured up the comment"big boy". All my illusions of her were shattered in that moment. And to think butter wouldn't melt. imagination is a wonderful thing, Lurpack or St Ivel gold..STOP....keep that thought private..

  • 8.
  • At 10:30 AM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • Brian Kelly wrote:

Described by Tony Blair as a "Clunking Fist" now by Lord Turnbull as "Stalinist" .....fitting descriptions for this Contemptuous, means- testing control freak...my words!

Not the sort'a politician I wish for as PM.... but then the electorate are not being given a choice are they?

The Ö÷²¥´óÐã Office named & shamed as "not fit for purpose" is trying very hard to live up this title.. it Beggars belief that 10,000+ fraudulent passports have been issued last year 9 of them to a terrorist...but easing the seriousness in this case their Head Honcho said ONLY 2 were fraudulent the other 7 were to replace lost passports...when quizzed on this he stated not unusual!!.. In which world does this character live!.. 1 lost is a costly experience, 2 is bloody shameful ,3 is " don't you ever show your face here again" over that is preposterous.. lets have some solid statistics on this? *Whistleblowers please note .
Where were all the Reid Gang when this shambolic statement was made...anther example of " Macavity's Cat"

Just cannot comprehend this mess they're all BONKERS...
& JUST what have we not been told?*

  • 9.
  • At 11:51 AM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

"The institution (slavery) has long been abolished but the legacy of it remains. It's imperative for young black British people to have an understanding of their history," says Lee Jasper [1a] *

* sounds like a promoter/believer in PTSSD [2a] [2b]

Esp rich coming from those (jasper) with vested interest (£111,000 salary [3]) in the race relations industry. When those 'ideas' & 'insights' have allowed such problems to fester & pour oil onto the embers which has become a raging fire.

All for discovering reasons, but not excuses, esp from liberal left / left cabals, who policies have had such detrimental effect on society.

Perhaps if the 'gangsta' culture was not more prevalent as a 'value' system, much of black youth would not be aspiring to attain unaffordable 'materialistic accessories, via illegal means … as a sign of 'respect' & 'status' … & accomplishment.

You have to ask ...

Q. why such unattainable & morally corrupt values have taken hold & allowed too (it has not taken place overnight)?

Q. why in those communities, are people not more willing to climb the ladder & attain 'normal' lifestyles the rest of society have to contend with?

Yep, there are similar problems in mainstream society, about behaviour & respect, esp in the youth.

But the particular dubious distinction, black communities have, is their incestuous spiral down (esp where perpetrator & victim is black) has been 'institutionally' sanctioned over 40+ years by the burgeoning 'race industry' & 'anti-racists' & pro multiculturalists.

Who intentionally prevented criticism of these communities (& others) in misguided attempts which ignored the prevailing inherent difference between cultures (positive & negative) & only sought to fuse people to together regardless, in a wholly unrealistic way, according to their agenda.

Agenda, which had to do more with theoretical ideas on societual engineering & political aspirations, than what was actually doable & good for those communities & society as a whole.

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1a]
[2a]
[2b]
[3]

  • 10.
  • At 12:22 PM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Based on the Governments track record with digits - they admit to 10,000 Passports wrongly issued, the true number and more likely number could very well be 100,000.

Guess what will come along next - an amnesty for every illegal in the country = more votes for the Soviet Labour plot.

  • 11.
  • At 12:25 PM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

Brown a 'Stalinist'? What a load of nonsense. Turnbull presided over the decimation of the 'Stalinist' Civil Service, which began with Thatcher at the behest of 'free-market' promoting anarcho-Trotskyists, and was continued under Blair.

If Brown was indeed a 'Stalinist' he would have been doing precisely the opposite to what we've seen him doing since 1997 surely, i.e. he would have returned to recruiting quality staff into the Civil Service instead of hoards of highly verbal PR types, he would have got rid of the 'special advisors' and 'consultants', and he would have ensured that the IT systems allegedly provided for evidence based, accountable management were properly staffed so he could run his 'GOSPLAN' 'effectively'. We have seen none of that, quite the opposite in fact. We just need to look at this government's own published outcome measures and read the Public Accounts Committee and NAO reports on delivery in the very departments which New Labour has said defines its administration (and expenditure e.g. the DFES, DoH and the Ö÷²¥´óÐã Office).

If Brown trusts the "free-market" so much, what is *he* taking the credit for? Like the rest of the Civil Service, the Treasury must be strapped for cash and be poorly staffed, which is surely why he's trying to farm out so much to the private and third sectors? Note that he and Blair have continued this Thatcherite destruction. He's 'prudent' because he's skint is he not?

Turnbull's remarks are surely just a timely PR effort to try to make Brown look more 'sexy' relative to so many of the other clueless, 'unwitting anarcho-Trotskyists' both within his
own party and within Cameron's?

Stalin on the other hand, despite his predictable western reputation, was probably the most successful politician of the 20th Century, and so inevitably the most maligned/vilified by free-market loving, opposition smearing, Trotskyists both at home and abroad.

If only Brown *was* a 'Stalinist' our lives might *not* be so Kafkaesque and miserable.

Adrienne@11 wrote(in part)

"Stalin on the other hand, despite his predictable western reputation, was probably the most successful politician of the 20th Century, and so inevitably the most maligned/vilified by free-market loving, opposition smearing, Trotskyists both at home and abroad".

i am speechless

Ed Balls, is that you in cross dressing mode??
(Adrienne,i am off to work now,to do a twelve hour shift to enable me to pay my taxes and keep the comrades happy,stalin would be ever so proud of my contribution)..

  • 13.
  • At 04:07 PM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Adrienne:
Back to the ward dear - your time is up!

  • 14.
  • At 09:48 PM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

My My the coincidence abound:

SOCIALIST NEWSPAPERS:

Gordon Brown edited The Red Paper on Scotland [1a] *

* …. 2005 addition assembled commentary from "socialists from across the spectrum of radical thought – Communist Party, Green Party, Labour Party, Socialist Party" [1b]

Stalin, edited of Pravda [2a] & also wrote for the socialist Georgian newspaper, Brdzola Khma Vladimir [2a]

SOCIALISM:

Stalin, like many other socialists & radicals, supported Julius Martov who based his ideas on the socialist parties that existed in other European countries such as the British Labour Party. [2a]

The spoof 'Gordon Brown' blog wrote extensively about Stalin on Thursday, February 16, 2006 [3b]

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1a]
[1b]
[2a]
[3a]

  • 15.
  • At 10:38 AM on 22 Mar 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

Alas, things are seldom what they seem (particularly in politics)

But on a more serious note, in order to supplement a few comments (and links) posted in last week's Newsnight blog:

/blogs/newsnight/2007/03/monday_12_march_2007.html
/blogs/newsnight/2007/03/wednesday_14_march_2007.html
/blogs/newsnight/2007/03/thursday_15_march_2007.html

perhaps the following on what might be described as the 'paradoxical intention' of Gramscist-Trotskyist hegemony (a strange, but eternal bedfellow of the sort of free-market neo-con liberal-democracy we have seen exported to Iraq), might stimulate a few synapses?

If you peruse this popular 'The Road to Serfdom' lite ,just remember that its (closet Trot?) author couldn't revile Stalin's 'National Socialism' given that he was an ally at the time (and someone even the US president reckoned he could work with). The real villain of target of the piece at the time were the Keynesian (Stalinist) brakes on western free-market capitalism which in the guise of the welfare state, many welcomed in 1945, but which didn't last for both economic and political reasons best known to the USA and which was routed once again in the 1970s (with the help of militant/Trots stirring up the unions making folk think that socialism was the bete noir - see how it works now?). Where was the evil empire then when one needed it then? Might they have believed that this longer term strategy (with the allies complicity of course) sufficed? For some contemporary consequences, see free speech, Human Rights and Equality legislation, and holocaust deniers in European prisons):

If you hesitate before deliberating on the whys and wherefores of there being so many young black gun-slingers out on our streets (see earlier comment link for closing HoC Ö÷²¥´óÐã Affairs Committee parliamentary session on 13th March):

or on the mean IQ/educational attainment differences between ethnic groups as published annually by the DfES (showing Chinese, Indians and Jews come out on top - note, it's *not* racist to say *that*) and differential TFR, or if it unsettles you to think that there may not be enough *smart* females at home producing and rearing children to offset what must be dysgenic fertility (global dimming is definitely something that we *could* do something about but they these gals are out chasing funds for bigger and better nests at the expense of laying getting their eggs fertilised) then just ask yourself why that's the case - and why all the PC hesitancy? How does that incline one to vote, and how does it make parties campaign for votes or compose their manifestos? Immigration is now a necessary evil in order to offset our below replacement level native *average* TFR of 1.7 with all its adverse implications for health care, pensions etc in an aging population.

But then, I'm open to correction, as things are seldom what they seem.

  • 16.
  • At 11:57 AM on 22 Mar 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

Moderator - please do not publish this, please just remove the closing bracket at the end of the first link in Comment 15 as it makes the link fail. The link should be:

Apologies.

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