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Thursday, 20 September, 2007

  • Newsnight
  • 20 Sep 07, 05:03 PM

Shouting fire in a crowded cinema
KingThis is how John McFall MP described the effect of the governor of the Bank of England's intervention as lender of last resort to Northern Rock last week.

Mervyn King, was being grilled by MPs at the Treasury Select Committee over his handling of the banking crisis in recent weeks. The Governor forthrightly defended his actions but worryingly stated that current legislation prevented him from taking the action he felt necessary - covertly supporting Northern Rock.

In effect he is saying the current system does not work. So why, some are asking, has it taken him so long to realise this?

Liberal Democrats
Michael Crick has been watching Menzies Campbell's speech down in Brighton. The audience seemed happy but behind the scenes has it silenced the whisperings of discontent about his leadership?

Voting on climate change
When US Pollster Frank Luntz asked our focus group of "sceptics" and "believers" what climate change meant to them he couldn't shut them up.

We asked him to find out how important environmental policies are to a group of British voters. If the strength of the response from them is anything to go by, politicians still have a lot of work to do to convince people that their actions would make any difference.

Zimbabwe
Sue Lloyd Roberts' exclusive film for Newsnight last week provided first hand evidence for many of just how serious the humanitarian crisis is in Zimababwe at the moment. Now Gordon Brown has reacted in an article today.

He has said that he will not attend the forthcoming EU-Africa Summit in Portugal if Robert Mugabe goes but the Portuguese government doesn't agree. It says he should be invited because other African leaders want him to attend.

How is Zimbabwe reacting to the Prime Minister's intervention? We will be talking to the Zimbabwean ambassador to the UN live on the programme.

Naming the dog
And, we've had a huge response to our "name the dog" competition. The results are here.

Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 06:07 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Bob Goodall wrote:

Dear Newsnight

We should have sent troops into Zimbabwe a long time ago, and to Darfur.

The amount of resistance would be zero -from anyone, so why allow this to continue?

Bob

CLIMATE CULL

(1) When hundreds of scientists agree, it is properly called consensus 鈥 not truth.
(2) When a valid alternative to the current consensus is offered the 鈥減eer review鈥 system is used to suppress it. See:
(3) We have found a way to over-populate the planet. I don鈥檛 see anyone volunteering for a cull. Perhaps climate change 鈥 whatever the cause - will prove good medicine?

  • 3.
  • At 06:31 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • D Allan wrote:

McFALL How very Apt. Brown Darling Return The King.
Just seen Gordon asking for Democracy in Zimbabwe Hear Hear
How about some HEAR in the UK.
Perhaps Gordon YOU Invaded the wrong place. NO Oil There Though EH

  • 4.
  • At 06:38 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Lin Thomas wrote:

I`ve read that the Newsnight budget has been cut by a fifth . Does this mean that Jeremy will only be allowed to wear the same tie for a month or will the tie drawer go completely ?

  • 5.
  • At 07:07 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • shella wrote:

About Northern Rock - the fragility of the capitalist system is slightly more than "shouting fire in a crowded cinema". This system is susceptable to boom and bust cycles, because it is based on risk, and mysterious futures, - a big gamble from beginning to end. Legalised but still involves taking chances! This means that the rich always end up with more money, while the poor always end up with less money. What an idiotic comment to make about a serious economic situation which threatens to wipe out peoples hard earned savings. The Bank of England now blames the rules, legislation, and our lack of prudence, for its late intervention. What rules are there, in a free market economy, and how prudent is he, I would like to know???

  • 6.
  • At 07:13 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • D Allan wrote:

Barrie I checked out the Link Ignorance is Bliss for a lot of our mp's, OR does it cut down on their Tax Stealing. I know which way I Swing and it isnt with Ming.

  • 7.
  • At 07:27 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • shella wrote:

Hello

About Northern Rock. The authorities are trapped in their own web of deceit. The more they try to cover up the real nature of shady financial dealings that underpin our economic system, the more they get dragged in the mire of their own lies. I am enoying the spectacle, and, hope this is a nail in the banking coffin, as the consumers are showing they are not as stupid as the Bank of England or the Government think they are!

Why should the taxpayer bail out a bank, when the banks often refuse to bail us out?? The Governor of the Bank of England blames the laws, which presuambly he helped draft, but they gamble with impunity with our money every day! That is why it takes five days to clear a cheque in the UK (a few hours in Saudi Arabia, to give the banks cash-flow money to gamble with! Our cash their profits. Well now we want our money back before they lose it altogether!

  • 8.
  • At 07:55 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Jimmy wrote:

i read paxo was leaving to go to america...maybe something to do with budget cuts??

Dear Gavin Esler

Thanks for responding to a number of readers following our most recent media alert, 'The Media Ignore Credible Poll...' (September 18, 2007;

However, we were appalled to read this comment to one emailer:

"The last time I remember a robotic response from people like this was watching film of the nuremberg rallies."

Almost all of the emails sent to you have been rational and restrained. To compare these emailers - many of them members of your audience - to mass murdering fascists responsible for one of history's greatest genocides is truly outrageous.

The first irony is that these emailers were asking you to give serious attention (ie not 34 seconds) to credible evidence of our very own British and American genocide in Iraq involving the murder of 1.2 million people.

The second irony is that the recipient of your comment - a masters student, doing natural sciences in chemistry and physics - had sent you an extremely cogent email based on his own thinking. Several of the points highlighted by him were not even made by us in our media alert.

The third irony is that the 主播大秀 forever claims to be passionate about generating greater public participation in political debate. It seems debate is all very well, but criticism of the 主播大秀 is a form of fascism not to be tolerated. Imagine if politicians rejected public challenges in this insulting way. Imagine if your arguments were used to condemn Amnesty International's requests for letters to be sent in defence of human rights. And imagine if you responded in the same way to the many mainstream politicians who give a pre-programmed, "robotic response" to your questions.

It should not be necessary to point out that we and our readers fund the 主播大秀 and effectively pay your salary. We believe it is your responsibility to serve and support the public, not to stand over it in abusive judgement.

You claim that "Medialens has no credibility whatsoever". We respect your opinion, but note that it is not shared by your editor, who has written:

"Another organisation that tries to influence our running orders is Medialens... In fact I rather like them. David Cromwell and David Edwards, who run the site, are unfailingly polite, their points are well-argued and sometimes they're plain right." (Peter Barron,

Best wishes,
David Cromwell & David Edwards
Co-Editors, Media Lens
www.medialens.org

  • 10.
  • At 08:30 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • wrote:

MUGABE POLICY

Surely Noble Gordon should go to the conference and there make a citizens arrest of the criminal Mugabe? That's what Tony would have done - I think.

  • 11.
  • At 10:06 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Ed Murray wrote:

A respectful Boltonesque interview, or a "robotic, identikit, narcissistic, fascistic" questioning of the Zimbabwean ambasssador?
I know which one I expect.

quote:
Zimbabwe
Sue Lloyd Roberts' exclusive film for Newsnight last week provided first hand evidence for many of just how serious the humanitarian crisis is in Zimababwe at the moment. Now Gordon Brown has reacted in an article today.

He has said that he will not attend the forthcoming EU-Africa Summit in Portugal if Robert Mugabe goes but the Portuguese government doesn't agree. It says he should be invited because other African leaders want him to attend.

How is Zimbabwe reacting to the Prime Minister's intervention? We will be talking to the Zimbabwean ambassador to the UN live on the programme

  • 12.
  • At 10:12 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • D Allan wrote:

How long has Senile Bob been destroying his people and country. How long has the brown marxist Jackboot been doing the same here.
Are they related,Surely the same make of party as I see it. 1.2 million in Iraq combined with more murders in the uk in the last 10 years than I have ever seen before, Include Honour Killings and disapearance's + terrorist murder. The figure for murder, starvation and disease in Zimbabwe who knows. Why the nulabour spin machine feeds us this latest cynical ploy is perhaps a tactical error. I dont buy it like I dont buy anything from them. KILL the debt in africa I agree with but flush gordon gave away 9 billion to africa last year, How many of our troops have died because of equipment. At least 52, The nulabour spin machine lies over the wounded figures so I have no idea 2 to 500 would be fair. After 10 years in power is nulabour trying to tell us they were unaware of mad bob and what he hss been doing to his country. Oborne from the Spectator did a documentery last year or so nothing has really changed since. Why didnt wonderfull gordon come out then. Peter Tatchel has done more than brown without any spin. I have no doubt who is to blame for NR. Oborne again investigated control freak gordon and that charge came from within nulabour. Its all gone smelly? It allways was.

  • 13.
  • At 10:57 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Tom wrote:

Not climate change again... It is getting far too repetitive, far too one-sided, and far too BORING!!!

Let's have some proper news and analysis instead.

  • 14.
  • At 11:17 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Vuk wrote:

I honestly do not understand why the people in the countries like the UK should be taxed even more than they are as it is. I come from Serbia and there absolutely no taxation based on ecology.

Taking this into account I would say that additional taxing of people in the UK or any of the developed countries is rather useless, especially if you look at the congestion charge......it has had no effect in reducing the traffic in central London, on the other hand why would a taxation of such sort have any restricting effect on the population.

Why is there no additional taxation on industrial pollution, which churns out more pollutants than anything else around?
Why are there actual aiding projects for the countries which are in the process of developing, so that their industries may develop in an environmentally conscious manner? Instead the undeveloped countries of Europe and other parts of the world are intensively used for manufacturing products which in this procedure cause excessive pollution.
Why are the ordinary people always the ones suffering?

Lets work around this problem the other way this time, lets see the big ones, countries and industries alike sacrifice some of their money so that the planet and all the people, animals, plants and everything else living on it may survive.

Is this too much to ask?

  • 15.
  • At 11:25 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • wrote:

Dear Gavin Esler

You have my deepest sympathy now that you have attracted the attention of Media Lens (the unfailingly passive-aggressive David Cromwell & David Edwards) and their massed ranks of emailing acolytes.

Having been on the receiving end of one of their email bombing campaigns I know just how you feel.

My advice would be to ignore them.

Their view is that pretty much every journalist apart from John Pilger is playing a part in the *genocide* in Iraq. And, if you think that they are using the term *genocide* inappropriately, then that just proves that you are part of the problem too...

Delete the emails and spend your time doing more useful things. Media Lens is a political "cult" and arguing with them and their followers is a waste of valuable time.

  • 16.
  • At 11:39 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Bilal Patel wrote:

Iran is surrounded on all sides by American occupiers, and the Americans and now French are continually threatening it with war. Iran's crime is that it exercised it's right under the NPT to use nuclear technology for energy, which is a right exercised by many nations including our own.

If I was an Iranian, I would press for my government to develop nuclear weapons because I think the West will not attack a country which is strong, technologically developed and able to stand up for itself. Iraq was powerless and weak and that is why the West invaded it to steal it's oil.

  • 17.
  • At 11:52 PM on 20 Sep 2007,
  • Liam Coughlan wrote:

The "we pay your salary" argument from medialens, an organisation I have never heard of, kills off their protest.

You may well indeed pay your TV license fee, but so do millions and millions of others. That in itself does not make our email ranting and other views we hold correct.

Good to see Newsnight stay with Zimbabwe. I would have hoped Mr Brown would ignore the foreign office and act on instinct, if such a thing existsed. ZANU PF got away for it for years because it was politically incorrect for a UK Prime Minister, or other western leaders, to suuggest that he was incapable of leadership. The racist thing. The fear of being misunderstood. The reason for tolerating Banda, Choba, Moshoeshoe (benign king of lesotho) and their successive military dictators etc. Brown should imagine that Zimbabwe is Ireland, and how the UK would and should react if post-colonial Ireland was afflicted in the same way.

The performance of the Chaps from the City before MPs has vindiated my comments last week re: inability of financial services regulation to protect the public interest in the UK. Shame on them.

  • 18.
  • At 12:31 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • F O'Flannell wrote:

This is what we have learned:

Mr King says he wished to quietly and swiftly inject money into the banking system to help Northern Rock before the queues became evident. But he couldn't do that because if he intervened with an injection of money into the system before the Run on the Northern Rock Bank became evident, then the public wouldn't realise that he was only doing it to assist troubled Northern Rock. They would think that lots of banks were in jeopardy. And so confidence in the entire economy might have been lost.

So he had to allow Northern Rock to be seen to be sinking (and other banks not) before he began to take action. That's so people would realise that the only reason he put billions of extra money into the system was purely for the benefit of Northern Rock, and certainly not to benefit any other Banks - for no other Banks need benefitting, they aren't in a mess, they are well run and completely solvent.

It's all perfectly clear. But does it make any sense?

Nevertheless I feel rather sorry for Mr King, he is taking the brunt of criticism for what looks to be fault on the part of the people who run Northern Rock.

But if Northern Rock wasn't being managed well then surely the Financial Services Authority who regulate the banking system (don't they?) could have intervened earlier and stopped Northern Rock from putting itself in jeopardy by risky behaviour.

We are told that the money Mr King injected into the banking system, to save Northern Rock, was Taxpayers Money. I suppose he has a pot of money that can be used in times of emergency, war, etc and he took it out of that.

Will we reach a stage when the emergency pot is empty, or is it just limitless and self-filling? Can more money be printed on demand to top up the emergency pot? Will this have any negative effects on the economy in the long run?

  • 19.
  • At 12:53 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • Daniel M-M wrote:

I entirely agree with barrie singleton. Arrest Mugabe at the EU-Africa Summit on human rights violations charges: the deaths of several hundred thousands, the removal of civil liberties and the destruction of personal property.
Then send in a few thousand troops (half the amount needed for Iraq), hold a proper, non-rigged election, and let Zimbabwe get back on it's feet.

  • 20.
  • At 01:09 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • brossen99 wrote:

Stock market parasite Chris Hulne may wax lyrical about Australian prime minister John Howard being converted to the " Green " cause, but only recently I heard a report about Howard being possibly de-selected as his party leader for fear of loosing the coming election.

  • 21.
  • At 06:20 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • D Allan wrote:

I agree with dan m-m and Barrie but we must force brown to go to. They could arrest the pair of them. Two birds with the one stone. Two sides of the same coin. How many wonderfull brits have nulabour forced out of uk with taxes and stupidity good riddence nulabour would say how very Nice of them. At the same time they cram as many other nulabour voters into the country from all over the world and have been doing so for 10 years only now they think they should speak english. Mad bob n Brown Jackboot, AC DC, pinky n perky pos n neg photo. Politicians = vomit, War, taxes. return the king

  • 22.
  • At 08:16 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • wrote:

'Do politicians have the answers to climate change?'

It's a bit like saying do they have the answers to 'the weather'. So in this more balance-aware age it probably should be more like 'Could politicians have the means to help mitigate mankind's possible/probable negative influences on climate change?', but I think we know what you mean.

And the answer is, of course.

The only small problems are the democratic electorates with near zero trust that most institutions who would claim to serve them - government, business, media, activist groups - will tell them what's going on without spin, career-advancement, profit or self-interest put first to cloud any rational efforts to address the issue.

Or, if that can be surmounted, have the skill sets in place to communicate anything to people in ways in which they can rationally engage in this day and age.

So... with Clintonesque troofamism, that's an 'affirmative, though enhanced by variable qualifiers to leave the answer to the question sufficiently obscure as to be anything and nothing all at once'....'cos staying in power is really all that matters.

I shall look forward to the results of the poll, but have long expressed concerns by the twofer style (even if it is this time 'focus groups') of getting to anything meaningful in debate.

I am sure for the benefits of ratings, the groups of sceptics and believers will have been selected in advance for the 'richness' of their views.

The trouble with such adherence to entrenched warfare entertainment is that the two extremes get so comfy where they are, surrounded by their mates firing rounds over the horizon and hoping for the odd hit, they forget what they are doing to everything that lies in between.

So usually the only winners in such events are the carrion crows who feed off the carnage they have orchestrated just for the meal of the day. For tomorrow is another headline.

Am I willing to pay more in green taxes? Yes, so long as they are clear, fair, spent where I can see the benefit (not endless quangos and unproductive administrators), have genuine enviROIs, are not just to meet some target, and will make the planet a better place overall for my kids by being imposed.

Will environmental policies influence the way I vote in a general election? Yes, but nothing the current shambolic collection of half-considered knee-jerks, crowd-pleasers and spinmeisters I've witnessed to date have managed to put forward anything to move me beyond 'none of the above' as yet. More's the pity.

Please let it be an interesting, worthwhile session, and not another producer's wet dream that leaves me disappointed again, and Mother Nature with a tear in her eye.

And if by some miracle it does arrive at some consensus and answers without collapsing into another 'tis/'t'isnt 'BigOil funded deniers' vs. 'Hairshirt and ignore the realities of 6B and growing populations', please to the heavens may they be in the form of tangible, worthwhile things that can be DONE, and not just yet more airwave fodder in the form of meaningless WORDS.

I guess I'm looking forward to it:)

[I sent that yesterday in response to the pre-show email. Didn't seem to make it for some reason]

I've now watched it. And I was wrong. At least about the extremes. This was a very polite, reasoned group. Good on 'em.

However...

I was a tad concerned about the research methodology on display. We had 30 'sceptics and deniers' moderated by a guy who says 'I'd rather die of heat than eat less meat'. Sets an objective tone? Not. As was, frankly, his leading the public hands up (which is why we have secret ballots) with incredulous commentary: 'Look... we ONLY have...'.

So I was expecting polarised views. Which is, to an extent, what we were served. But initially from only about half a dozen respondees, over and over. It expanded a bit more when things hit politics, but not by much.

And speaking of politics, why were we served visuals of, and choices between just Brown and Cameron? With, by way of bizarre 'balance', a sole Lib Dem spokesperson in the studio to respond afterwards?

The qualitative trends were interesting, but no more considering the nature of the group.

I was surprised at the high score for HRH, especially from the sceptics, because as examples go his record offers them some pretty good ammo, and certainly better than Mr. Huhne's odd proxy mea culpa for Al Gore.

Post Live Earth and pre Planet Relief (RIP), the 主播大秀 must be heaving a sigh... of relief how the cult of celebrity was viewed. (Please note all who just fancy setting up a party in the Green Room with your favourite soap star... er... in the name of awareness).

I was surprised at the consensus on the activist approach. Though it does at least show that guilt and hectoring are no more useful in the persuasion stakes across the board than fines or nanny state lectures.

I was also surprised to see Mr. Branson (if oddly deemed, at least to me, typically representative of the corporate sector) not better received. But then, opening with the notion that alternative fuels are going to solve everything (if showing how a selection of footage or edit can steer things) is not quite the 'reduction' response you'd expect a guy with travel as his business model to come up with.

And so the polster rounds up with 'Is climate in crisis... we're not sure.' That's quite a claim. based on 30 'we's'. I think most politicians are. I think such as the IPCC are. I think RealClimate is, etc (cue a raft of those who are not...).

So if as he says, 'we' are not, ... why not? And how do 'we' get motivated to act to help in mitigation?

As the topic of the piece it seems clear politicians don't have the answers, possibly, as JP said ' [They] just don't believe you'.

Which is, if others of us also don't, a bit of a problem.

Don't know about a dog's name, but it is its dinner.

  • 23.
  • At 09:13 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • steve wrote:

Sir, I have never understood why we didn't go into Zimbabwe and really doing something about the deprevation and inhumanity that is everywhere whilst the leaders live in luxury. I know there is no oil there and that's what seems to motivate 'good cause mode' from ourselves and the Americans but it has to be more than that, surely. Are we afraid of the old colonialist tag. Why? We set up present day Iraq as recently as 1917 and that never seemed to bother us. Sincerely, Steve.

  • 24.
  • At 10:20 AM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • Bedd Gelert wrote:

Good programme last night - especially where Jeremy got to the nub of the NR problem by quizzing those chaps about the 'tripartite' relationship which is at the heart of the problem. Despite the risk, as he put it, of sending his viewers to sleep, he enabled the audience to understand that the Bank of England does not, and cannot, carry the can alone for the recent problems.

F O'Flannel [above] yes, the FSA should be regulating, but one of the problems is that they focus on the most 'risky' banks i.e. the smaller ones. And as we have seen with NR, sometimes the bigger they are, the harder they can fall.

Time for a full-scale investigation into the FSA. The grilling of FSA chief Callum McCarthy at the Treasury Select Committe should be a date for the diary.

  • 25.
  • At 12:10 PM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • csharp wrote:

Newsnight has imaginary pets?
Some might consider that undermines the credibility of a serious news programme?

The Benny Hill Music.

This may have suggested the complete sketch/analogy. Where a top hatted and tailed man [who represents the Bank of England] with a big bag labelled 'Money' being chased by scantily clad women [who represent the banks]? The FSA could be the short bald bloke who gets slapped on the head?


  • 26.
  • At 02:44 PM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • wrote:

Jimmy @ Post 8 - What do you mean Jeremy's leaving the 主播大秀? I thought he was going to do a Week on Newsnight Review show for 主播大秀 America aimed at an American audience, but braodcast from London. If he does leave, then it will be an incredibly huge loss for jounalism in the UK. I really hope he isn't leaving the UK. :-(
Brilliant Jeremy last night (30/10) particularly with the Zimbabwian Ambassador on the state of his country and the interview on Mervyn King too. Oh and the imaginary dog too. ;-)

  • 27.
  • At 04:02 PM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • Mark wrote:

Shouting fire in a crowded cinema? How about waking up after nearly 80 years to the reality of risks in the banking system having failed to even consider them let alone addressing fixing them. What do you call people who do not learn from other peoples' experiences, mistakes, tragedies, disasters? The run on banks was one of the hallmarks of the beginning of the Great Depression in the United States in 1929. This is how and why the FDIC and SBLIC were established. This is how the risk to bank depositors was eliminated to prevent the possibility of future runs on banks. This is how the risks that certain types of banks were allowed to take themselves with their depositor's money was reduced to allow the government to rationally insure those deposits. And this is how depositors in American Savings and Commercial banks know that their deposits are safe and that they will never have to stand out in front of a bank building hoping to get their money back before the bank closes up its business forever. If you invest with an investment bank, you are aware of the increased risk and that you could lose all of your money, that's a different kind of bank. If you depost in a government insured account, you can't lose. No depositor has lost even one cent in a government insured account. Where are comparable protections for comparable banks around the world, in Britain for instance? Simple, they don't exist. The "it can't happen here" mentality prevailed and the risk was completely ignored. Now the chickens have come home to roost and the Bank of England had to improvise quickly or risk a cascading bank failure which could have taken down the entire British economy. Perhaps if Britain were tied to the Euoro, the cascade could have spread to the continent as well, now there's a happy thought.

I would like to propose a name for your imaginary dog. It's an imaginary name. Want to know what it is? I'd tell you if I could but unfortunately there is only one way to find out. Use your imagination. :-)

  • 28.
  • At 04:40 PM on 21 Sep 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

In two hours of questions by the HoC Treasury Committee, I thought we essentially just saw some excellent theatrics on the part of both the committee and King, with the latter saying little more than the conjunction of four pieces of financial legislation (especially the FSMA) served as an obstruction to their acting covertly as they might have wished.

Surely there's little point in anyone publicy asking them questions, as the the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Market Abuse) essentially prevents them from saying anything which might either inspire or frighten the horses?


As there are something like 60,000 people working in securities (about 2800 companies) and the regulator (FSA) only has 2800 staff, can they cope given that they are, I believe they are making cuts to their enforcement side?

New Labour has crammed the Statute Book with new 主播大秀 Office laws, and that doesn't prevent crime (in fact it just increases it). If the likelihood of market abuse detection is low, but the rewards are high, what can we expect from the FSA? Perhaps Newsnight could do a reassuring piece on just how they do actively monitor the securities companies?

How *does* one draw the line between companies taking extreme risks with other people's money (including depositors) and still talk of a free market?

  • 29.
  • At 11:22 PM on 27 Sep 2007,
  • jon edwards wrote:

I can't believe the audacity of the White House spokesman telling us how far ahead of the rest of us the US and President Bush is on climate change!

Gavin Esler should have wiped the floor with him.

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