主播大秀

It is abundantly clear that the EU will not, and perhaps is incapable of, settling on a uniform decision regarding the leadership of the operation in Libya - this should come as no surprise given the EU's approach to the position of the High Representative for Foreign Policy. The big players in Europe did not want to strengthen the ability of the EU to coordinate foreign policy which was made clear in every decision from deciding the title, to selecting a relatively unknown person to fill the office. The current situation puts this into stark relief. Sarkozy has ruffled many feathers in his approach to the crisis, which raises questions over his intentions - Paris clearly wants to seperate Turkey's involvement in the operation, and given their membership of NATO they were never going to favour a NATO led command. In similar fashion to pushing through the UN resolution, I'd wager there will be some heavy unilateral diplomacy between the key players to draw up arrangements and it's safe to say that they will not please everyone.

Hewitt is entirely correct in pointing out the risk the Libyan crisis, and the individual sentiments of Member States in regard to who takes command, will derail what is an increadibly important summit for the future of the Eurozone. This is vital not just to the stability of the Euro, but the central market, and indirectly the UK for its potential commitments to provide assistance. Agreement at this summit is vital to mitigating any fears in the market, and even though the crisis in Libya is undoubtedly vital, all focus and attention should be drawn to resolving the Eurozone contagion.

Thank you, Mr. Hewitt. This article is superb, and covers most intricasies of the
Europe's view of the Libyan crisis. Nicolas Sarkozy is surely at the forefront of the anti-Gadhafi campaign, and Turkey as member of NATO, and hating Sarkozy's rejection of Turkey's bid to European membership, is getting even with Sarkoxy
by doing everything to sabotage his leadesrhip role. And that show us how personal disputes among states can lead to discord in other issues confronted by the alliance. And this saying comes to mind: "A camel is a horse designed by a committee!"

Fortunately, Nato didn't have to fight any war on Europe. If it did, the alliance would have probably broken up.

Have just read that the UK will have to contribute to Portugal's bailout. Why? What's it got to do with us? We're not the UK Euro - thank goodness.
Does the UK economy not have its own problems?
Let's not forget that this money is yours and mine. Why on earth should we spend anything on Portugal? If the euro is going belly up, surely it's up those stupid enough to join to sort out their own mess.
For the UK to spend a single penny on Portugal would be an outrage.

I am dissappointed in Merkel for not backing France and the UK's stance and I really think Sarkozy has to be applauded for the bold action he has taken.

Its clear though that given the division between the member states and across the UN states more generally, that the action in Libya could be a disaster. I think its been handled badly but I would blame more Russia, China and Germany in particular for not getting their hands dirty here and making it a true international coalition here.

That certain countries in the EU have divergent foreign policies however is not surprising, nor however is it anything to be annoyed about - its just further proof that Baroness Ashton's position should never have been created by Lisbon and that the EU's priorities should lie in areas other than a common foreign policy.

I'm sure however, as always, we'll learn nothing from this and the empty rhetoric will continue in Brussels though. The saying "United in Diversity" must have some meaning after all.

Gavine, when I read the headline of this thread, I genuinly thought we're finally returning to bona fide European issues.

And this one was going to be about the crisis in Portugal and imminent elections in Germany. (Baden-Wurttemberg).



But, noooooo....

"Ahead of the summit, Belgian riot police drove back a group of demonstrators with water cannon and tear gas close to the venue, while thousands of other people protested peacefully against austerity cuts. (主播大秀)



So when we're finally going to establish and enforce a no-ClubMed zone in EU?


Is a pertinent UNSC resolution needed to prevent that crisis?

Monsieur Sarkozy surprised the rest of the EU by recognising the Libyan opposition indeed. No consultations with his partners. France decides, Europe follows?

The same French now blame others to be not solidary. (Well, of course, later he made a lonley agreement with Mr Cameron.)

By this recognition the opposition was encouraged not only to demonstrate but to try an armed revolt seriously and to spread it over the country.

Although they were and are not equipped for that!

A Turkish commentator put it like this: The French provoked the military conflict with Libya.

France is keen of playing the leading role. Without the NATO, but with minor partners such as the Emirates and a few other countries (some of good will) while the USA steps in the backround.


Merkel avoids to say "yes" to the UN-resolution (that was a mistake in my opinion) because of state elections, Sarcozy goes to war hoping he will be reelected next year. And hoping to increase national French influence once more. That's the difference.

"...If part of the deal involves tapping the EU's emergency fund then Britain will be liable to help under a deal signed by the former Chancellor Alistair Darling..."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh dear you've done it now, Gavin.

Just wait until the DM readers catch a whiff of that.

# 4. SCL

There are a lot more hands to get dirty: India, Brasilia, South Africa.

And, finally, what is about Arab countries?
Why Egypt with her strong and able army doesn't want to help?

What about Turkey? Second largest army of NATO!

Germany is engaged in a number of countries today, third biggest contigent after US and UK in Afghanistan. Although the Bundeswehr was not prepared for those extraterritorial missions originally. And although the German public opposes these missions abroad usually strongly.

#3 FastPete
Well said !!!

With regard to Portugal , I think they should default and restructure , so should Ireland . It would be better for the EU to end the Euro , rather than carry on with a pretense that everything will soon be alright . I believe that Greece will sooner or later have to default , and then what . Sometimes it is better to face up to a mistake , rather than fooling oneself that every thing is for the best , when clearly it isn't . I believe an honest step back of this kind would do more to unite European countries than pressing on regardless .

Of course there is no cohesive unity in The EU ,made up of 27 sovereign states .
There is no central government to spearhead leadership .

In a way I feel sorry for Baroness Ashton , because her job has no meaning , is just a useless , extremely wasteful , bureaucratic nonsense ; but she will be laughing all the way to the bank , so why should she care .

I wrote in an earlier post that I think the EU and individual member states should stay out of Libya . Ultimately I think that little good will come out of creating a no fly zone to help the rebels . The end result will very likely be chaos , rather than a western style Democracy . Aren't we putting our hearts before our heads ? European countries and the USA are more concerned that the oil keeps flowing , for the benefit of the world economy . It may make little difference who is in power , Gadaffi or the rebels . The worst thing Europe has to worry about is the mass arrivals of illegal immigrants , who cannot be so easily absorbed in European countries .

Well, the EU will have a bit more now with which to bail out Portugal if needed.

I read on 主播大秀 news that:

"A former Conservative MEP expelled by the party over expenses allegations has been ordered to repay 拢345,289 in "unjustified" claims.

Den Dover, 72, originally faced a demand for 拢538,000 the European Parliament said should not have been paid to him".

Gavin, do you have figures as to the relative numbers for MEPs, from different countries and parties, who are accused of this sort of thing?

How does the UK rate?

Where do the europhobics stand?

Wouldn't it be ironic...

At least that's perhaps something over which France, Germany and others can share a common, unifying view in these unsettling and divisive times.

As someone living in Belgium and working around Brussels, I begrudge the fact that these people can't come to an agreement on anything - other than to hold further discussions that also come to no common agreement.

These summits in the capital cause a lot of disruption, and the unions take great pleasure in making things worse by demonstrating each time. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people standing up for their rights, but why the hell did they build the EU infrastructure right in the city!

Anyway, I won't be holding my breath for any type of unified agreement on anything EU related, unless it's awarding themselves a pay rise. The United States of Europe won't happen in my life time - just like the UK joining the Euro.

Sarkozy is trying to do a Thatcher and, if he pulls it off, then fair play. However, I'm not sure this will be enough to boost his ratings. There are too many different cultures with too much history behind to ever speak as one united voice in Europe. Perhaps Lady A should step aside, and the individual countries can get on with doing their own thing.

I too prefer to concentrate on the European news which is sad news for Portugal and her people. Unfortunately nothing seems to have been learnt from the problems which hit Greece and Ireland and Portugal looks on the same course. The economist Shaun Richards has been arguing for Portugal to go to the IMF since last September and has even published the advice he sent her Ministry of Finance.

"I am writing because I am an economist who feels that he has some suggestions which will help Portugal avoid the malaise that has been inflicted on Ireland and Greece by the 鈥渞escue plans鈥� that have been applied to Ireland and Greece by the troika of the European Union/European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. When the crisis first hit Greece it soon became apparent to me that sadly the wrong approach was being taken and that her economic circumstances were likely to deteriorate. My thoughts from this time can be found on my economics blog. Whilst I take intellectual satisfaction from being proved correct I take no pleasure from seeing my words come true..........."


It is looking more and more like they should have taken his advice.

#13

DorsetJane/Shaun Richards;

"It is looking more and more like they should have taken his advice."

Whats a freelance economist Shaun? Sounds like a euphamism for "unemployed".

secrecyjo (working in Brussess) predicts:

The United States of Europe won't happen in my life time - just like the UK joining the Euro.





I doubt you're going to be proven wrong.

At least in my lifetime.

re #14


Talking about a humanitarian cirsis needing an urgent EU's intervention...




An unemployment rate in Spain in the 17-23 age bracket is way over 40%.



Under different circumstances those young people might try&find a gainful employment in Libya.


But now, I guess it's only Greece. Or Portugal.

[not sure 'bout a situation in Italy. Or Romania.]

"If part of the deal involves tapping the EU's emergency fund then Britain will be liable to help under a deal signed by the former Chancellor Alistair Darling."

Britain? Help? EU fellows? No way. The Cameroons will find a way out of such horror.

#17

"Britain? Help? EU fellows? No way. The Cameroons will find a way out of such horror."

70bn euros since joining, the second highest net contributions, and a loan to Ireland not good enough for you.? Tough. Take your begging bowl somewhere else, we're skint.

It鈥檚 just totally unacceptable that an outgoing Chancellor of the Exchequer, following an election and while a new government is being formed, can sign UK taxpayers up to billions of liabilities and that these liabilities are binding on irrespective on voters preferences as to what their taxes should be spent on, and how many states in the eurozone periphery go bankrupt between now and 2013. This is just one example of the undemocratic nature of the EU where decisions of past governments bind future ones no matter how we vote.

Voters and current governments must be able to repudiate agreements entered into at EU level by past governments who have lost elections and office. Nothing else is democratic.

In essence the EU cannot function as an organisation that represents ALL nations of Europe - be it Defence, miltary intervention, fiscal union, economic development or even human rights - unless the nation states completely submit to the authority of the EU and surrender all national sovereignty.

However, the proposal that the EU should supercede the individual nation states presumes that all Europeans are of equal mind, equal in prosperity and equal in their desire to submit to a European Central Government.

In reality, the nation states merely reflect the fact that no one nation is equal to another in all things nor are the individual tribes, religious groupings and racial backgrounds of the component people of Europe able to coexist in total harmony, accord or with similar aspirations.

The Serbs and the Bosnians are but an example of divided peoples, the chasm between Muslims and Christians will never allow for co-existence without one creed dominating the other and the financial prosperity of the PIIGS in comparison to the northern European nation states shows that calamitous social safety net spending cannot be supported in the less prosperous nations especially so when the economic union provided by the Euro means that ultimately Germans have to foot the bill of reckless spending by Ireland, Greece, Portugal and even, possibly, Spain next.

The discordance over the need to have NATO coordinate the Libyan adventure simply around the superiority complex of the French compared to the pro-islamic slant of the islamic nation of Turkey and is hedged by the fence-sitting of the Germans who seem to have no interest in fighting wars, let alone the wars of the French and British, any more.

The practical solution is to end the experiment of creating a European superstate and recognise that europeans are all very different from one another and no amount of political chicanery of ceding political authority to the EU will make those difference any less real.

"In Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, witnesses had said on Wednesday that tanks had pulled back from their positions under air assault from international forces."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Umm, how are tanks violating the UN approved "no fly zone"?

The difference between Merkel and the other leader is very simple Merkal listen to the people as any democratic politician should do the rest think they are above the simple word democracy .I applaud Merkel with all my heart.
Libyan is a independent country it as noting to do with us.
John

#21

illogicbuster;

"Umm, how are tanks violating the UN approved "no fly zone"?"

Try reading UN resolution 1973 paragraph 4 before posting anything else about "no fly zones". As usual you are posting erroneously.

#22

john;

Merkel isnt listening to anybody other than her own spin doctors, worried about her political future. If she cared about the democratic will of the German people then no German troops would be in Afghanistan either, as Dietrich says:

"Germany is engaged in a number of countries today, third biggest contigent after US and UK in Afghanistan. Although the Bundeswehr was not prepared for those extraterritorial missions originally. And although the German public opposes these missions abroad usually strongly."

20 Menedemus writes:
"The practical solution is to end the experiment of creating a European superstate and recognise that europeans are all very different from one another and no amount of political chicanery of ceding political authority to the EU will make those difference any less real."

I think that is a very pessimistic forecast. No doubt in pre-nation-state Europe the individual tribes that made up the countries of what is today the common market felt they would always remain simply tribal units with little thought of change. However, a strong leader like Charlemagne in the 9th century could unite these tribes in a forerunner of todays experiment which fell apart mainly because no successor had the necessary strength and authority to continue.
I think today its time has come. Unless Europe presents a strong and united front to compete in a world of fierce competition and progress we shall lose out. Many historians already predict that China or Asia in fact along with India will have global dominance in the 21st century and if we want to compete, then we have to put our differences aside and build a new, more united community.

15. At 16:00pm on 24th Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

"...At least in my lifetime..."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sorry to be raw, but how old are you :)

#22. At 18:07pm on 24th Mar 2011, john wrote:

"The difference between Merkel and the other leader is very simple Merkal listen to the people as any democratic politician should do the rest think they are above the simple word democracy .I applaud Merkel with all my heart.
Libyan is a independent country it as noting to do with us.
John"

What a joke, Merkel listens to the people, she is watching her ratings plummet and that is all that manipulator thinks about, get real for once.

#11. At 14:48pm on 24th Mar 2011, Eddy from Waring,

The last I heard was that the MEP's had voted to deny transparency and full disclosure of their expenses. This raises two questions, how did this nose in the trough get exposed bearing in mind their preoccupation with secrecy, and secondly who did he upset to be exposed. At least the UK parliament (English) allows disclosure these days unlike the EUP.

As regards the position of Catherine Ashton; it is readily apparent that the traditionally Europhile French government wishes to pursue its own foreign policy without EU oversight. I have no problem with this, but it does indicate that there is a limit to how far even the pro EU nations are willing to integrate. If the nations that comprise the EU are unwilling to surrender foreign policy decisions to EU institutions then Catherine Ashton has no role to play in world affairs and her position is something of a nonsense.

As regards the dire financial straits in which Portugal finds itself; I am of the opinion that the ability of the PIIGS to recover from the downturn is being severely hampered by their membership of the Euro. The short term effects of scrapping the Euro would be pretty catastrophic but the long term effects of keeping it don't look too appealing either. Greece and Ireland are bankrupt, Portugal is on the brink and there are concerns over Spain. Would it not be better to admit that the Euro was a mistake and accept the negative short term consequences of breaking it up in exchange for the promise of improved long term prospects that such a break up would provide?

Europe to compete with China & India in the 21st century?

The can only happen if our rulers in Brussels enforce matched wages, living standards & human rights with these up & coming power house nation states.

I can just see the people of a dysfunctional Europe going for that.

But then again.. Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, [add name of next province to go belly up here]

Is it just me or does there seem to be some social engineering going on here?

All for our own benefit I'm sure.

# 25. margaret howard

That what you call "pre-nation-state Europe" I always call the Europe of Regions.

Nationbuilding is a French and British matter begining after the end of the Middle ages. They put their regions together in a supreme unit called nation. This idea is true until today. Even single regions (Ireland, Finnland) call themselves nation.

On the other hand regions underline their own charakter in contrast to the nation they belong to (Catalonia, Corsica). Their feelings are in favour of the region rather than nation. Nations consisting of one region have an easy "double feeling".

I'm convinced that Europe is build of regions and not nations finally. Europe is the nation for them all. But I don't believe this will become reality. Nation-thinking is too strong and the nation is very effective. Nation is an extreme important element of identification with essential historical impacts. And, of course, nation has the one language.

The organisation of an European nation is a bloody way of it's kind as the building of France or Britain was in fact. It's not very likely to happen without some kind of force (you mentioned the competition with Asia) and would have to be founded on strong regions in any case.

The cometogether of European nations to a union like today is allright, but it will not promote the idea of an European nation but hinder it probably.

Europe was "united" in the Middle ages in the common belief of christianity and similar structures all over the continent (including the islands), strong regions and the non-existance of nations.

# 29. Ulkomaalainen

The euro is not fitting all countries in the same way.

So the euro isn't the mistake, but possibly the participation is one.

To get cheap money is a good reason to become a member.

To fullfill the treaty and the pact of stability is a good reason to leave.

Since no member can be excluded by others.

Sorry? united in the middle ages in the common belief of Christianity?
Did that not depend on which version of it you followed ?
Nations were kicking lumps out of each other then & still are now.
The power play to be supremo rulers of Europe is still being played out but now its with legislation & not men at arms.
Regions Allie to become nations for the purpose of self defense either military or fiscal & neither apply in being part of a united Europe.

28. At 21:06pm on 24th Mar 2011, Buzet23

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then you might be interested in this HOC Library document re MEP's expenses:



(Hope it doesn't get removed).

22 John writes:
"I applaud Merkel with all my heart.
Libyan is a independent country it as noting to do with us."

I second that. I think at the moment she is the only leader with the stomach to stick up for her country knowing that people do not want any further involvement in American meddling and aggression towards the rest of the world. Sarkozy and Cameron are too busy trying to look big on the world stage but having to do it by hanging on to the coattails of the only superpower left (at the moment).

---nothing worse than when Germany says NO to wars ?

--Do you want a militarized Germany ?????

-- If not --- then get smart !

More illogic from "Illogicbuster" (21). UNSC Resolution 1973 authorizes "... all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack ..." This is apart from the declaration of a no-fly zone.

#20 Menedemus

Excellent Post !!! I agree with you completely .

I have friends in practically every European country , there is nothing wrong with the inter national friendships between European people , there is already a union of European people .
Trying to politicize European Nation States into one big conglomerate is a grave mistake that may never work . I believe that the Monster EU administration is more concerned with assuring its own future and that of its employees , than any benefit to the ordinary citizens of European countries .

#31 Dietrich

Very true !!!

I lived in Italy a number of years . Italy was united in the 19th century , but the people today still think of themselves , foremost from their region , Toscana , Umbria , Lazio or wherever , rather than Italian , except for the world cup football .
Regions or Nations are a community like family that they belong to ; you cannot change that , " Old habits Die Hard ".

#32 Dietrich

Surely , getting cheap money invites spending beyond your means and is the cause of the Eurozone crisis .
The Euro was created as a binding step towards political unification , without sufficient thought to the practical pitfalls of a one size fits all . It doesn't !!!
Especially the Mediterranean countries were better off as they were before , when they couldn't borrow and spend as they have done the last ten years .

#34. At 22:26pm on 24th Mar 2011, Eddy from Waring

Thank you for that link, very useful, it shows that UK MEP's are now expected to show transparency, what a shame that the rest of the EP's MEP's almost certainly are not so constrained as I'm sure there are many skeletons in their cupboards.

Good article, summarising the interlocking crises. This one's going to be very, very messy. Multinational politics is a messy business.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#32. At 22:14pm on 24th Mar 2011, Dietrich,

The problems of the Euro were well publicised before its introduction but were ridiculed and ignored.
(1) It is a political construct designed for political ambition rather than logic and financial common sense.
(2) It united many dissimilar economies under central control that removed one of the two ways to control a stuttering economy, adjusting the interest rates, as that became the responsibility of the ECB.
(3) The majority of the joining members were obliged to be within the convergence criteria to be allowed to enter yet accounts were manipulated and many did not meet the criteria yet were allowed to enter. Even Germany and France failed the 3% test for many years.

There are few who do not think member states like Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc should leave the Euro as quick as possible, but for the ideological EU politicians this is unthinkable as they have a mindset that says their grand plan is all that matters. These politicians are willing to see Europe go bankrupt in furtherance of this crazy scheme and yesterday's agreement of the new rescue fund by Eurozone finance ministers proves that. Once again the German Chancellor Angela Merkel was at the forefront of the plan, and the sooner she is replaced in Germany the better.

People in this blog ask the question is Europe fit to become one country, this discussion should be over by now.
After the last war our father and grand father wisely set for us the course to follow,in this global world in which we living it is the only option for our nations to follow any other course will make the country of Europe as important as San Marino with respect is important to the world now.
john

20. At 17:26pm on 24th Mar 2011, Menedemus wrote:

"The practical solution is to end the experiment of creating a European superstate and recognise that europeans are all very different from one another and no amount of political chicanery of ceding political authority to the EU will make those difference any less real."


Totally agree: How anyone could imagine a single 'Political' entity from Valletta to Helsinki, Dublin to Bucharest is condusive to a new, improved, cohesive Europe is mind-boggling!?
How could anyone seriously propose such a 'Multi-cultural & Historically variable' conglomerate capable of representing Europe at an 'Economic' level alongside the supposed 'super-State'/'Globalised' nations of China, USA, India etc. is beyond rational explanation!?
Add to that the inevitable, colossal, over-riding intrusion by that same EU organisation into the 'Democratic' aspirations, rights & responsibilities of 525+ million Citizens and there is simply no way for this supra-National body to enable a fair system of 'Representation'.

Any clear-thinking Individual concerned for and respecting the Citizen as paramount to the 'Social-Cultural' Heritage and Future of any political framework must conclude there is a profound disconnect between the EU-Brussels elite and the Citizens who comprise its Constituent parts.


25. At 20:24pm on 24th Mar 2011, margaret howard wrote:

"..However, a strong leader like Charlemagne in the 9th century could unite these tribes in a forerunner of todays experiment which fell apart mainly because no successor had the necessary strength and authority to continue."


An extraordinary passage written in support of the 'EU-Brussels' entity and yet within it lies the profoundly disturbing recognition (though, as ever, the fragrant lady just doesn't geddit!) of the danger to Society & the Citizen of a supra-National body/personage holding supreme authority in all matters.

Consider this from the 'anti-EU/Brussels' perspective of its impact upon the Governed, "..fell apart mainly because no successor had the necessary strength and authority to continue."

For EU-Brussels to be that successful "successor" it must usurp the 'authority' and the 'power' of the State and the Individual: The 'Charlemagne-Brussels' entity will ensure it alone can Inherit that ominously blanket authority & power.
To maintain its pre-eminence it surely will not brook any opposition via any changes of the Central authority's Power-Base. The success of the 'successor' must be in that stark fact there is no 'succession' only a seamless transference through an elite retaining Unaccountable & UnRepresentative 'central' control.

Thus, any Citizen or Organisation resistant to that Central Authority may justifiably complain there is no possibility of a challenge to the 'successor' so where is the DEMOCRACY!?


At #25 Margaret Howard continues in much the same unblinking, unencumbered by factual reality prognosis for what lays ahead for the British Isles and Continental Europe:

"..I think today its time has come. Unless Europe presents a strong and united front to compete in a world of fierce competition and progress we shall lose out. Many historians already predict that China or Asia in fact along with India will have global dominance in the 21st century and if we want to compete, then we have to put our differences aside and build a new, more united community."


'Its time has come.': What is this 'it' enjoying such unfettered appreciation?

An 'it' with practically no Democratic Representation as Citizens are not consulted for Consent or Approval as the 'it' repeatedly abrogates Citizen & State values to Charlemagne supremacy in Legislation for Economic & Judicial 'authority' & 'power'.

Can the 'it' be challenged in the Courts: Yes.

However, which Supreme Court has the ultimate authority & power to determine is that challenge legitimate? The EU-Brussels own EUropean Court of Justice!


The argument about 'India & China' etc. dominating the 21st Century is all but superfluous.
For Europe to abandon centuries of progression toward 'ever more closer' Democracy in favour of 'ever more closer' Union copying the worst aspects of the rival Super-Global States is a desecration of the Liberal 'Political' Inheritance of the Citizens of Europe.
Will the present EU-Brussels entity even prevent or be the equal of these new Global Economic giants: Very unlikely. A 'one-size-fits-all' mentality without appreciation of disparate Nations & Peoples.
Will the EU therefore enable any better Economic & Cultural prospect for the Citizens of EUrope? Very unlikely. A 'one-size-fits-all' approach to all policy/decision making inevitably adopting compromise & half-measures that slows any enterprise & productivity.

Afterall, the EU-Brussels is intent on re-directing and re-connecting ALL Europeans in a mould of its design & making: The Swede shall sit down with Greek, the Czech and the Portuguese in harmony according to the Writ of Charlemagne-Brussels. They will sit by order of a 'Political-construct' whose Democratic credentials have no validity and whose pretensions to multi-national hegemony carry no weight of acceptance outside of the mind of Charlemagne-Brussels.

Why will the EU be weak in International terms?

Rather ask: How could it be otherwise having deserted every almost aspect of the Historic 'political & cultural' inheritance that would more properly serve as the foundations for an advanced Democratic society?

What Charlemagne-Brussels installs:

In place of Democratically Elected State Parliaments there is a EUropean Parliament whose Membership have no cause to consider their Constituents as nothing relating to the MEPs 'authority' or 'power' is subjected to scrutiny by Citizens.
In place of State Cabinets with Ministers ultimately responsible to the State Parliament & the Electorate there are Commissioners whose 'authority' & 'power' is responsible to some amorphous 'jobsworth' under-the-table negotiations in which in the final analysis nobody is Accountable to the Electorate.
In place of the Democratic practise of Citizens at regular intervals affecting by their Votes the 'Political' outlook, disposition & policies of their Government there are blocks of vested-interests carving up 'authority' & 'power' between them complacently aware the Electorate has no input whatsoever.

EU Democracy: All together now, "EU is good! All else is bad!"

Now THAT is what the modern Charlemagne-Brussels supporter & Political exponent alleges is an improved DEMOCRATIC CHOICE!

So again, it's not EU taking care of the problems in its neighbourhood, but NATO?


And should NATO also resolve your ClubMed problem?

[let alone no-euro zone problem]

Just wondering , have those who evangelise Charlemagne actually read the history? Endless war encompassing 53 military campaigns: invasions, conquests, massacres, mass beheadings ,deportations and ethnic cleansing , genocidal evangelism.

You want the new Europe based on his legacy? Sounds like its already been tried, rather recently.

Hi John #45

Why should Europe be important on the world stage? Are not the following issues more important to the actual citizens of Europe: jobs, healthcare, crime, education.....

This pro EU argument; that a unified Europe offers global influence is often trotted out as a benefit of unity. Why should the citizens of Europe want this? What is so wrong with being a small player on the world stage? How would Europe or the world benefit from a concentration of power in Brussels?

#49. At 11:43am on 25th Mar 2011, Ulkomaalainen ,

Quite so, the poster John has always seemed over whelmed by the concept of importance and as you say there are far more important issues that self aggrandisement and political ambition. The old proverb 'the bigger you are the harder you fall' fits the ideology of the EU and Euro very well, and the fall is getting ever closer especially concerning the Euro.

And now, what is mighty EU going to do about obvious, massive violations of human rights in Yemen?

[Mostly by terrorist al-Qaeda]


And how about a no-fly-zone over SYRIA???!

Inquiring meerkats want to know.

No.48 - champagne_charlie

Charles - shame on you! Don't you realise that monsters who end up blowing their own heads off in bunkers, getting hung by the feet in Milan or by the neck in Bahgdad are the most evil creatures in creation but monsters who die in their own beds will end up being heros eventually? What has history to do with it? Please stop muddying the waters with facts.

Dont kick them, PMK, when they are our only hope of getting out of this Libya mess--especially France and the UK!

They can lead Europe away from the France-Germany axis/entente of power into a more realistic UK-France "entente cordiale" of European superpower diplomacy
while we, the USA, can at least contemplate a more realistic foreign (pragmatic lol) policy closer to home. (Japan, Pacific area)

Viva Les France et UK!

Also Germany won't feel left out, lending money and giving Foreign leadership decisions to France/UK

:)))

#53

David;

"we, the USA, can at least contemplate a more realistic foreign (pragmatic lol) policy closer to home. (Japan, Pacific area)"

New York to London -3500 miles
San Francisco to Tokyo- 6700 miles

Just thought you should know mate. (Oops threnodio, there I go again...must...resist)

"Viva Les France et UK!"

What language is this ? Esperanto? ;)

Germany lending money to the France and UK? Say what now?

@ #53

"the USA, can at least contemplate a more realistic foreign (pragmatic lol) policy closer to home. (Japan, Pacific area)"

You do realize that England is closer to the US Mainland East Coast than Japan is to the US Mainland West Coast... right? Something along the lines of 5478mi (LA-Tokyo) vs 3459 (NYC-London) (taken off a breif check on some travel site so dont get all in a tizzy if the numbers are not 100%)

Lets not forget the non material connections that most (no idea how long that will last with current policies) of the populace still holds with Europe.

51 powermeer writes:
"And now, what is mighty EU going to do about obvious, massive violations of human rights in Yemen?"

Nothing we hope. Just as we should have done nothing to interfere in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. As soon as our leaders learn that they have no mandate from the people and stop following a powermad America into ever more costly and futile wars, we can get on with living our own lives and try and help those not as fortunate as we are instead of attacking and killing them at a cost of untold billions.
Do Americans actually know or care where Yemen or indeed Libya are, let alone what 'massive violations of human rights' are taking place there? I know a lot thought the Gulf war was being fought in the Gulf of Mexico. As for violations of human rights, no doubt you could find plenty of those in your own country, including putting low IQ prisoners on death row and then killing them a decade after the crime was committed. That to many of us is a shameful process in a country that calls itself civilised and pretends to be the voice of conscience to the rest of the world.

#57. At 16:55pm on 25th Mar 2011, margaret howard,

"As for violations of human rights, no doubt you could find plenty of those in your own country, including putting low IQ prisoners on death row and then killing them a decade after the crime was committed. "

Do I detect a little bit of worry as to what might happen to Scots like you?

57. At 16:55pm on 25th Mar 2011, margaret howard wrote:

"..I know a lot thought the Gulf war was being fought in the Gulf of Mexico..."


Oh really, You "know" that, do You?

Kindly furnish genuine proof (not reference to a link NO ONE else can locate)?

As the last contributor to allege the above 'Gulf of Mexico' aspersion some 10 months ago was unable to offer any substantive evidence other than an anecdotal story he7she had picked ip elsewhere on these blogs.

@ #57

"Do Americans actually know or care where Yemen or indeed Libya are, let alone what 'massive violations of human rights' are taking place there?"

Yes on both accounts for the ones who actually pay attention.

"I know a lot thought the Gulf war was being fought in the Gulf of Mexico. As for violations of human rights,"

Curious, who did you know in America that thought this way? I did not know of anyone personally who thought Persian Gulf = Gulf of Mexico save what I saw on the news one day asking people on the streets or in the schools who obviously couldnt care less about anything past thier mp3 player. Then again, when the people who do the polls/interviews chase the lowest common denominator for thier representative of American life... I would guess that this is not unusual on the other side of the pond either.

"including putting low IQ prisoners on death row and then killing them a decade after the crime was committed."

I would rather not get into this due to the controversial nature of it... but I will pose this question: If the lives of the opppressed half a world away are to be of no concern, then why have concern for the lives of uncontrollable murders and rapists at home. Maybe it would be better to follow the great example of justice as demonstrated in the "humanitarian" release of the Lockerbie bomber.

"That to many of us is a shameful process in a country that calls itself civilised and pretends to be the voice of conscience to the rest of the world."

Who would that "real" voice of conscience to the rest of the world be?

60. At 18:44pm on 25th Mar 2011, The_Black_Knight_Strikes_Again wrote:
@ #57



Careful now!

The fragrant lady has a problem with factual reality: She doesn't like it.
MH especially doen't appreciate others pointing it out following one of her holier-than-thou contributions wherein she annunces 'liberal' views par excellence but never quite fulfills the criteria of justifying her remarks.

It is IMO not that MH lacks ability or intellect: It is a laziness of the thought process.
E.g. just a couple of blogs back she was fomenting & supportive of the view that the 'pro-British' population of Gibraltar (& before that similar with the Falkland Islanders & Argentina) should be made to accept Spain or quit the 'Rock'.
Point out that if this logic were put into practise 'immigrants' to the 'west' whom she has stoutly defended in other comments would also be vulnerable to repatriation and MH's thought process flounders.

As I say, it's not lack of ability it's wilfully inept commentary.

60 black knight writes:

"If the lives of the opppressed half a world away are to be of no concern, then why have concern for the lives of uncontrollable murders and rapists at home."

Because murdering murderers demeans you as a nation, specially an avowedly christian nation. Ever heard 'Thou shallt not kill'? I always thought that was a final taboo that allowed no exceptions and I'm not a christian.
If you believe I am misguided why do you think that most countries of the world have given up the death penalty? According to wikipedia of those that still practice it the following statistics for 2010/2011 show you just what questionable company you keep:

"2010 - The following 19 countries carried out executions: Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Equitorial Guinea, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Libya, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, UAE, USA, Vietnam, Yemen.
2011 - As of 21 Mar 2011 executions have been reported in the following 7 countries: Bangladesh, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, UAE, USA. "

Not the sort of company a liberal democracy like the USA should keep I would have thought. Incidentally you will see that Yemen too still execute criminals. I don't suppose that's what America means when it accuses the country of 'massive violations of human rights'?

@ #62

"Because murdering murderers demeans you as a nation, specially an avowedly christian nation."

Murder? I thought we were executing them. I guess it depends on point of view. Sort of how allowing murders to murder non murders is typically thought of as being an accessory to the crime due to inaction. (I could bring up another example, but that would be equally controversial and then things would just get silly.)
In addition: On what grounds do you hold that the execution of "the worst of the worst" demeans a population.

"Ever heard 'Thou shallt not kill'? I always thought that was a final taboo that allowed no exceptions and I'm not a christian."

Ever heard of separation of church and state? Also, Church Dogma varies depending on denomination. I would check up on official writings before attempting to state such.

"If you believe I am misguided why do you think that most countries of the world have given up the death penalty?"

Frankly, I have asked myself that question numerous times and have yet to find an answer.

"Not the sort of company a liberal democracy like the USA should keep I would have thought."

I cannot say that we actually keep them company very often outside of forigen aid and certain twisted international power deals. Speaking of which... I am sure we can make many other lists of unpleasant deeds that will show off the "bedfellows" (by your standards) of other countries.

-------

I will ask again, Who would that "real" voice of conscience to the rest of the world be?

Just one more indication of how ridiculous the EU is!
With Emperor Barosso, President Rip Van Rompuy and Baron-less Ashton still squawking about who the face of the EU is, we see that the real face, is personal ego! They sit in charge of 1/2 billion people and can't agree on anything! They lay the rules down for 27 member states that can't agree on anything, except how to buy up bankrupt member states with public money from other member states, and happily preside over a European currency that from the moment it was first tested has been unable to stand back up on it's own two feet! What a lovely scam!
Still, what would you expect from an ex prime minister of a rapidly failing Portugal, an ex prime minister of a rapidly disintegrating Belgium, that also holds the record for not having a government and a Brit that has never been publicly elected to any official office? Still, they have been able to agree on their pay rises and have purchased a lovely night club.....oops sorry, cultural center, where they can party the night away with their newly raised entertainment allowances.
Instead of waiting for the next big EU drive to rid us all of the expense of sovereign governments I suggest that sovereign governments get in quick and rid us all of the expense of these unelected amateurs!