No love lost
The Obama attack on Bill Clinton - - calls into question whether the Illinois senator will be willing to slope off into the night should he lose, lick his wounds, as is the custom in these matters, and then come back with some more or less genuine speech of support at the convention at the end of the summer.
Plainly the former president has upset the once future president and, while it seems obviously true that the Clinton camp and the Obama camp do not have the policy differences of, say, Huckabee and McCain, they plainly cannot stand each other. Bloomberg/Obama anyone? Or Obama/Bloomberg?
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It's absurd that Hillary's camp has gone after Obama for being "inconsistent" on Iraq when Hillary herself has issued so many evasive caveats it's become difficult to ascertain just exactly what she intends to do if she is the nominee and is elected in November.
Well that puts the last nail in the coffin of a Clinton/Obama ticket. I never thought it would happen anyway, it makes no sense and I knew they hated each others guts. Clinton/Edwards makes a lot more sense but who knows, VP candidates seem to materialize at a convention like rabbits from a magician's hat. Chaney become the VP candidate because he was in charge of finding someone acceptable for the slot and couldn't.
The Clinton machine hasn't even begun the serious effort to take Obama apart yet. However much money he has, he doesn't have the organization or the poltical savvy of President Clinton. You can't win if you don't know how to play the game. Money is necessary but not nearly sufficient. They know every vulnerability Obama has and will exploit them to the fullest. Strap on your saftey belt, put on your crash helmet, and take a deep breath. The quadrennial American political mudfest of a Presidential race is about to begin. So far all we've seen are the preliminary warm up rounds. And you all thought you knew after Iowa that Obama was going to be the next President. And remember how you hung on every word of those pointless TV debates last year? Anything can still happen.
Obama has a valid point - who is running - Bill or Hillary? The mandarins of the Democratic Party clearly seem to be giving Bill the same sort of 'free-ride' the press gave him over Rwanda and Lewinsky. Maybe Barack needs to get a little 'dirty' here. After all, 'nice' guys never get the vote - look at Bush! Personally, I believe Obama is a 21st Century president. Everyone else in the race, on both sides are relics of a failing system of government. Hillary can always get a job as a HMO VP or drug company lobbyist which would keep Bill in golf balls. Go Obama - you're the man - kick some ass!
Begging the question, what would Bill do should he become "First Gentleman?"
Clinton campaigners themselves are complaining, saying Bill is behaving like a Little League father with his temper tantrums from state to state.
As columnist Peggy Noonan pointed out on Sunday's Meet the Press, sending Bill to yell at the neighbors is "unfeminist."
And so are the tears -- unfeminist -- or would be, if Hilary were a better actress.
The main problem that I see is that with the Economy being the number one priority for most Americans in this election cycle, there is no way that Obama can enter into a verbal fist fight with a president who ran the economy successfully for 8 years without coming off looking like the voice of immature naivety.
I agree that Obama has to shut Bill Clinton down - but Bill was for 8 years what Obama is still quite some way from proving he is capable of becoming.
Obama/Bloomberg? I doubt it somehow. If Bloomberg does decide to run for president that's going to siphon a gurt load of votes away from the Democrats and hand victory to the Republicans on a plate.
He may be an independent who was once a registered Republican but he was also a registered Democrat once and definitely leans more towards the Democrat side.
Ref: Hill/Bill v Obama - I think the Democrats need to show a united front because all this dirt they keep throwing at each other is going to come right back in their faces come the proper race for The White House once the two parties canidates have been chosen.
I think the problem with politicians like Obama is that they start to believe their own rhetoric.
Hillary is probably the most able candidate to run for the presidency in a generation, and commentators have to be careful not to weigh in favour of Obama as the candidate of change and the one fighting against the system. As a woman candidate she faces similar and potentially larger barriers than her opposition in the race.
As for V-P candidates I think Hillary would willingly want the best candidate to be her number 2. I suspect that Obama would not want Hillary as his V-P candidate. The problem I have with Senator Obama is that although he makes warm and even inspiring speeches what is he actually going to do?
Hillary Clinton has achieved the role as 'the best candidate' almost un-noticed as a woman. I once heard Shirley Williams say:
'For the last 40 years I've been trying to convince all these men that I am not just the tealady!' Hillary appears to have achieved this almost serenely.
What expensive propaganda these elections are.
Squabbling pathetic because once in power whoever will just sell arms and protect energy streams etc.
So with barley a chance of getting a President elected in 2009, the Democrats self-destruct from within before they even have a candidate nominated. What a surprise. Not.
It would appear that the Clinton camp are upset that Hillary has come up against a major rival who is exciting people and may stand a chance at getting the nomination and possibly going all the way to the White House. This is not the way it was supposed to happen. The Clinton camp thought it was a done deal that Hillary would win the nomination and there'd be another Clinton presidency. Now it's not clear that will be the case. The next few months should be interesting.
I think there is only one ticket for the Democrats and that is Barack Obama and Bill Richardson for the simple reason that they will bring the two largest voting blocs together - Blacks and Latinos. Also Obama support from Independents means he is more likely to be elected than Clinton. We may even have Republicans for Obama...you would never get that for HC...so who cares if Clinton and Obama have 'burnt their bridges.'
The problem for Clinton is that her campaign risks being seen as negative by more and more undecided, in addition to Obama's core support. They may not swing the nomination, and the blacks and latinos that vote will probably support her, but I can't imagine it would be good for a Clinton vs McCain race for alot of natural liberals to be bitter about Clinton. At best, these voters won't turn out. At worst, they may be swung by a principled republican.
At the heart of this, though, does anyone else feel that it's getting personal? The Clintons had this as a lock, right? Who is this Obama guy? How dare he, a black man, run against THEM?
Cheney became the VP candidate because he was in charge of finding someone acceptable for the slot and couldn't. - Mark
So, person A asks person B to find a suitable candidate for a highly paid, powerful, prestigious job. Person B reports back that he just can't find anyone suitable, but he'd be willing to take it on himself. If you'd take that assertion at face value, I've a plot of land on Mars I'd like to sell you!
Is it not enough that the Clinton's divided and polarized our nation?
Do they need to polarize the Democratic party as well?
Do they seriously think they can divide the party now, then re-unify the party for the general election?
Obama is refreshing with a positive ambition to bring beneficial change.
He has been exceptionally tactful in addressing the polished Defamation (/Deny/Discredit/Distract) attack against him.
To the Clinton quote, "Facts are facts.", Obama stands much better than the speaker. I do not think Obama has been convicted of perjury.
I would rather have someone with a positive ambition.
Justin Webb,
I have been reading your bog off and on for the last month or so and I am GROSSLY disappointed.
Are you writing as a un-biased journalist or as someone who has decided that the next person in the white house will be a Clinton? Your posts seems to constantly favor Hillary and to be honest, that's not what I thought an editor of the 主播大秀 would do.
I hope you're swinging one way because you're trying to drum up traffic.
Americans sould not be taken for a fool. Bill should respect competitiveness even though is "beloved" wife (apology lewinskey)is at the heart of it. If Hillary feels strong enough to become the next president, she shouldn't hide behind Bill. America needs a strong president who can face the worlds' challenges, not one that will hide behind to face an opponent. That's too cheap for the american people.
I sincerely support John Edwards. He has the right charisma, and attitude.
Hopefully the Dems keep on bitching and John McCain sails on by to the White House.
I agree with #2 Mark. The Clinton/Obama ticket just flew out the window.
Its kind of a shame for democrats because that ticket would have won in a landslide.
While I wish Richardson would get a Vice Pres. ticket half, I doubt it will happen. Even though I consider myself a Republican, Richardson was the one democrat that would have changed my party affiliation.
I think Bloomberg has party hopped too many times to be a viable half of a ticket.
While the Clintons are pompous, I kind of think they have point where Obama is concerned. Obama can trash talk anyone but when someone dishes it back he kind of acts like a kid.
First of all, I'd like to thank Justin Webb for his refreshingly honest comments.
As a senior at the University of Miami I have had the honor of attending last year's Obama rally in downtown Miami and being part of the audience at Univision's democratic forum--probably the least reported on debate, but also the most influential on Spanish-speaking American voters, who will hopefully be the change in this presidential election by actually voting. Barack Obama is one of the best speakers I have ever heard. At the risk of sounding naive, I admit--with a grain of salt--that his ideas are not completely unique from those of Edwards and Clinton, but that his heart and soul are poured out with every one of his professionally coached and refined politician's words.
I believe that there is a chance for the U.S. to be somewhat redeemed in the eyes of the world if he is elected. Nevermind the VP, in the end it isn't going to matter since everyone's ideas are fundamentally equivalent.
On behalf of educated young Americans sick and tired of cronyism, abuses of power, misuses of taxpayer money on wars over oil that could be better spent on renewable energy research and improving socio-economic conditions in the Middle East in order to quell terrorism, and all other umbrella categories of general political bull, I urge my parents' generation not to fall back on their customary voting patterns in order to feel 'safe'. I've never felt more unsafe in my own country. Just two days ago, the sister of a friend lost a loved one because he and his roommate at Florida State University were playing with a handgun in their dorm room. This is insane. I am ready for a president that actually cares about human beings, regardless of race, creed, gender, etc. I am tired of being ashamed of my citizenship.
It seems that Barack is trying to redirect the issues to poor me getting attacked by big, bad Bill Clinton. I've got a news for Mr. Barack Obama, he's in the wrong business if he believes his person shouldn't be attacked in politics.
A year ago it was which Republican will be the next President. Will it be Hillary Clinton or another? Now it look like will it be McCain or another Republican? Don't know how it's happened, but it has.
By the why, last week the President of our Government called a General Election for the 8th March. Eight to ten Parties will stand and 5 or 6 will get seeat in our Parliament. The leaders will then sort out who will form the next Government. Simple and not very exciting.
As someone who voted for Bill Clinton twice and leans Democratic, I can honestly say that I would actually consider voting for McCain over Hillary. The way Hillary and Bill have conducted themselves in this campaign is disappointing.
I really can't see why Obama would want to turn the country over to anybody on the Republican side by default by running a third-party campaign with somebody who doesn't have a chance. If the Clintons would rather lose in November just to establish their entitlement to the nomination, that is their decision. If voters want to fall for the sort of garbage we have seen so far in the campaign it is their choice too. After all, the people in Gaza exercized their choice and elected Hamas, and now they have to live with the decision.
The other side has one man who wants to change the American constitution to make it agree with the Bible (what does he think of the countries whose constitutions are made to agree with the Koran?) and also wants to rely for tax revenue on taxes that fall primarily on those who are least able to pay. The rest are people who are regarded as the best man available by those people who supported George W. Bush in 2000. I hope most people would hold their nose and vote for Clinton if she were nominated. But I really think the day of people accepting the least bad alternative for power are over. I would really hope that if Obama does lose the nomination, and I hope he won't, he will take his movement into some sort of non-governmental organisation that promote his ideas from the outside. I am sure Obama will continue to be a constructive influence on politics no matter how the election turns out. I really don't think he will be a Sampson and pull down the temple around him.
This Clinton/Clinton tag-team wrestling has become a circus. All inuendo and veiled slurs from their surrogates aside it begs the question: Could you honestly trust these two prima-donnas?
For now, I am supporting a ticket of Obama/Richardson -- not because of the black/latino labeling but because Obama seems to be the candidate with the freshest, most enlightened approach but he lacks the experience I'd prefer him to have. If Bill Richardson will accept a VP role, his experience and level of world respect would go a long way towards giving Obama some seriously needed guidance. I think they would be an excellent team -- and that whole black/latino thing could simply be a plus.
I am one of those independent voters who has become discusted by the nastiness coming from the Clinton Campaign. I sincerely hope Barack Obama wins the Democratic nomination. He is the first politician in a long time that inspires people across the political spectrum. I would vote for him without hesitation.
If Clinton gets the nomination for the Democrats, I will probably hold my nose and vote for her, but that is not certain. I might consider voting for John McCain if he gets the Republican nomination and runs against Clinton. I don't agree with everything he says, but at least I can respect him.
I鈥檓 glad to hear someone (Justin) mention a Bloomberg/Obama ticket if Clinton wins the nomination: improbable that Obama would agree to it, as this would permanently banish him from the island. I鈥檝e only voted Democratic in the past and even voted for Hillary to be senator in NY, but I find myself distraught at what this campaign is doing to that party. Watching, for example, Hillary misconstrue Obama鈥檚 depiction of Reagan makes me hesitate to put trust in an organization that either indulges in dishonesty or does not appreciate becoming a party of ideas. Clinton and Obama may have similar policies, but Obama seems to neutralize old, crusty divisions, which may make for more success in effecting change. Obama has already taught me something that was long elusive: Republicans are human (鈥ead-shaking stuff).
Bloomberg, if he runs, may end up a spoiler鈥攁nd I struggle with that鈥攂ut I don鈥檛 know yet if that鈥檚 enough reason not to vote for him. Making sure my vote 鈥渕atters鈥 seems secondary to taking democracy seriously鈥. Eventually, Churchill鈥檚 aphorism on democracy settles me down, though. Although 主播大秀 readers might not be so interested in my emotional debate, I wonder if it鈥檚 not more prevalent out there.
Um, if I may: I meant to thank Tom Rutherford and especially John Smith (if they鈥檙e reading this) from the previous blog for correcting me about DC voting for President, but my post may have come too late. Sorry for the bad information.
Forget Bill's presidential record, forget Hillary's serenity or Obama's power of oratory. Ultimately, it's the ticket we're talking about here and the Democratic grandees must be squirming at the thought of a Clinton v McCain race whoever else is on the ticket. She can't win, no matter how slick her campaign may be. McCain will take all the liberals and independents with him - only Obama can beat a Republican. The Clintons must know that and so must the party. Obama is the man - go home Bill.
A little early to write off Obama's chances of winning the Democrat nomination, surely! Certainly, if he were to lose S.C. it would be a severely uphill battle but a victory (of any margin) will again put him in with a great chance.
Are you writing obama off?
Mr. Webb, do you have anything to say about the US election that has to do with the substance of the candidates' policy proposals, and not about the horse race? I thought Matt Frei was rather whingey at times, like he was suffering through being in uncivilized America, but at least he said something of substance every once in a while.
Three primaries/caucuses and we're already writing obits for the frontrunners? There are a lot of undecideds out there. Anyone in California who has turned in their absentee ballot make up their mind a long time ago and was not going to change it for anything. The undecideds will be the ones going to the polls on February 5th.
A point for all the Obama supporters - he has been just as nasty as the Clintons in some of his campaigning either through surrogates or others means - just witness the TV ad (sponsored by Obama's stooges in the Culinary Workers Union) aired in Nevada that targeted Latinos.
The ironic thing is that Obama has had a relatively easy ride not only from the press but from the Clintons themselves. If he thinks it is bad now then it is nothing compared to the barrage of mud-slinging that the Republicans will indulge in if he is the candidate. It is also why the Republican press are deliberately playing up his chances as they feel that Obama will wilt under a relentless onslaught by their gutter operators such Limbaugh.
As the old saying says - if you can't stand the heart get out of the kitchen.
As to the VP nominee - I believe that a Clinton/Obama ticket would trounce any Republican ticket. But unless there is a swift change of tack by both candidates I can't see that happening - going by last night's debate that possibility seems even more remote.
It seems clear to me that Edwards is now running for VP and almost certainly as part of a Clinton ticket. He knows he is unlikely to be selected by Obama as it would mean the democratic slate only had 10 years senatorial experience between them. That possibility has been somewhat confirmed by recent events with Edwards supporters in Nevada transferring to Clinton and Edwards himself attacking Obama for the first time in the campaign.
If Obama wins he has to go for an experienced VP nominee - Bill Richardson being the prime candidate - he ticks all the right boxes when it comes to experience, personality and background - a vote-winner when it comes to the Latino vote. The ironic thing is if Clinton wins and cannot stand the thought of Obama as VP then Richardson should be her choice too!!
A point for all the Obama supporters - he has been just as nasty as the Clintons in some of his campaigning either through surrogates or others means - just witness the TV ad (sponsored by Obama's stooges in the Culinary Workers Union) aired in Nevada that targeted Latinos.
The ironic thing is that Obama has had a relatively easy ride not only from the press but from the Clintons themselves. If he thinks it is bad now then it is nothing compared to the barrage of mud-slinging that the Republicans will indulge in if he is the candidate. It is also why the Republican press are deliberately playing up his chances as they feel that Obama will wilt under a relentless onslaught by their gutter operators such Limbaugh.
As the old saying says - if you can't stand the heart get out of the kitchen.
As to the VP nominee - I believe that a Clinton/Obama ticket would trounce any Republican ticket. But unless there is a swift change of tack by both candidates I can't see that happening - going by last night's debate that possibility seems even more remote.
It seems clear to me that Edwards is now running for VP and almost certainly as part of a Clinton ticket. He knows he is unlikely to be selected by Obama as it would mean the democratic slate only had 10 years senatorial experience between them. That possibility has been somewhat confirmed by recent events with Edwards supporters in Nevada transferring to Clinton and Edwards himself attacking Obama for the first time in the campaign.
If Obama wins he has to go for an experienced VP nominee - Bill Richardson being the prime candidate - he ticks all the right boxes when it comes to experience, personality and background - a vote-winner when it comes to the Latino vote. The ironic thing is if Clinton wins and cannot stand the thought of Obama as VP then Richardson should be her choice too!!
Justin....
Give us a bit about the Clinton Legacy of Corruption. People seem to have forgotten about that. How quickly we forget.
Hillary is the LAST person who should sit in the Oval office.
I think Obama has some growing up to do. I hear a lot of complaining about others, but nothing positive from him. Yes he is exciting, but what has he done to show us he can lead? In time I hope he changes my mind. He should of waited to run. As for Clinton's legacy of corruption, the Whitewater affair was proven a waste of money by the investigation of Starr. A witch hunt so to speak.
I am backing Obama 100%, sorta undermined because I am Guyanese and not American and I'm still in the Caribbean so I have no chance of voting.. but jus give me a few years baby and you'll get my vote. Hilary acts like she should be president because she has been around the business for years now... I have been around gold does that been that should be a large scale minor...
I have to do something for what you believe in and what you believe that you can make a change in, not what your husband was good in so you'll try your luck in that field... She needs o let go and change creata new images in for her fantasy world.
The ticket you can expect, after this interminable, sturm und drang media coverage: Clinton/Richardson.
Richardson is quite clearly in her corner. He worked for President Clinton quite capably at the UN and as a diplomatic negotiator, and also did his best to stay above the mud slinging while he was in the current Presidential race. He also can attract a lot of votes in Western states, as a successful governor of New Mexico, and helps tremendously with the Latino vote.
If Michael Bloomberg runs, he will be handing the election to John McCain on a silver platter, as one of the other comments mentioned. No matter how the idiot pack in the press corps characterise him, most of his stated political positions run to the left of Senators Clinton,Obama and Edwards.
The Clintons are now bent on making RACE an issue in this campaigne. The reasoning, once it's about race, Americans will divide and Hilary will take the white majority.
Politics is a game, they will plant people in the crowd to ask Hillary or Bill questions that will bring race up and they will spend time talking about race, about black and white etc, etc, etc.
It will be worse after the S.C vote and believe me, it will be black, black, white, black Latino's on the press till monday the 15th when Hilary will make another Pasionate plea calling on the Americans to "THINK" and "LOOK"...........She'll at least convince the "conservative" elderly people.
Obama and bloomberg - just not possible - a black and a jew at the same time on the same ticket!
But maybe? Anyway, also think of the following combos:
Obama/bill bradley.
Obama/Bill Gates (bill gates is available, he's leaving Microsoft!)
This would be my fave. Bill gates has the kind of credibility few people have.He's a passionate problem solver. He would be a great veepy and a prez someday.