White voters
WASHINGTON DC: Interesting point from JC on whether Democrats might not vote for a man because of his race - but surely it is not as simple as that? I understand that the modern party has ditched its old southern traditions but, even so, are all Democrats so reliably free of the taint of racism? Are any of us, black, white or any other colour? People are people, it seems to me.
But K Tyson
makes a point worth remembering as well, that a vote against Obama is not - of course - necessarily a vote against his race. RH asks about whether we have asked white South Carolinians whether they would back Obama - the honest answer is that I did not broadcast any white people backing him or opposing him, though I talked to three white people, all of whom liked him. Interesting to see what the exit polls say about white support for the senator.
As we wait for the results... Oh dear - from the ever reliable Ron Brownstein rather puts a dampener on the prospects of a nice holiday after 5 February...
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I'm curious, while I agree it is wrong for people not to vote for Obama because of his skin colour. Why is it the fact he can get more black people out to vote him seen as a good thing? Surely they are doing exactly the same thing, not voting for the other candidates just because they are white.
"Are any of us, black, white or any other colour? People are people, it seems to me."
I love the way Brits aren't hung up about race like Americans are, though perhaps that's because you're preoccupied with class prejudice.
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure which one is worse.
hmmmm, interesting, but why is no one asking the black voters the question? or is it iust assumed and ok that they would always choose the black candidate? sounds racist to me.
I am a white male, also a Vietnam Veteran retired from the U.S. Army.
I was educated on the east coast and spent most of my life there and worked as a Photojournalist at a College Award Winning newspaper.
I am appalled by the lack of coverage on Barak Obama. Everytime Obama wins Hillary is featured in the news. When Obama won in Iowa, a real shocker! Who was on all three major TV networks the following evening?
Hillary.... When hillary won in New Hampshire who was on the major news networks the following eve? hillary... What's going on?
Well it's obvious! The networks want hillary and BILL CLINTON to win reelection to the Presidency, which will be IMPOSSIBLE in America. Two recent polls showed that Americans think that the country is NOT READY for a woman prez, BUT the American people think that a Black Man is more feasible for the Presidency than a woman. The second nationwide poll showed that Americans are more adverse to Hillary by a 30% margin than Obama. The bottom line here is that the Major News Networks are pushing hillary on us, selling here like cars or clothes! Thia ia an outrage and I wonder why? It reminds me of promoting a weak candidate that cannot win so that when Mc Cain runs in the fall, HE WILL CHEW HER UP AND WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT! I have no doubt this is the rich and powerful's plan for America! I cannot believe how stupid Americans are! Obama just won South Carolina and AGAIN hillary is pictured, featured and quoted on most news sources in America. Everyone knows she will NOT WIN ! CANNOT WIN !
Only denial, wishful thinking, and delusional dreams feed her campain, ( except for the Republicans and powerful Socialites ).
Skip T. Coleman
Politico report this morning said "It鈥檚 the demographics, stupid: The black candidate won the black vote. The white woman won white women. The white man won white men."
I agree with this analysis.
We will see the same in future primaries.
Good luck to Obama. More inspirational, perhaps than a rich lawyer who is only interested in power for its own - and her sake. But really, what does the bland word "Change" offer the Americans who have massive problems on their hands - the security of Iraq, the security of Israel, and the security of their own country - plus a looming recession with huge personal and governmental debt?
I think the citizens of the US deserve better than that - policies for instance? About time we heard about them from Obama. Being "Nice" is not enough.
ESP France
Good luck to Obama. More inspirational, perhaps than a rich lawyer who is only interested in power for its own - and her sake. But really, what does the bland word "Change" offer the Americans who have massive problems on their hands - the security of Iraq, the security of Isreal, and the security of their own country - plus a looming recession with huge personal and governmental debt?
I think the citizens deserve better than that - policies for instance? About time we heard about them from Obama. Being "Nice" is not enough.
ESP France
In response to AT鈥檚 question鈥 Why is it the fact he can get more black people out to vote him seen as a good thing? Surely they are doing exactly the same thing, not voting for the other candidates just because they are white.
When this campaign began, it was a toss up between Hilary and Obama but as the campaign has progressed, I have listened to both sides and have been inspired by Obama. His message of change has a strong resonance with me and I suspect other black voters. Yes, we happen to be the same skin colour, but I will vote for him not because of his race but because he is quite simply inspirational. Hilary feels very much like the old guard and race was simply not a factor in my decision making and I frankly find such insinuations disrespectful
I am an immigrant physician in the US for 16 years and has closley followed all the presidential elections in recent years. I fully agree with Mr Coleman,(No 7). US media and news papers are pushing Ms Clinton, fully knowing that she will lose against a good republican candidate( Hopefully McCain) - may be the rich and powerful America want continue republican rule.
I'm not sure about what's taking place in South Carolina. To my recent distress, though, I've discovered that people I thought were perfectly fine, middle class, upstanding whatevers, can be racist. I'm not because what race am I going to be prejudiced against? I'm a typical American mutt. I'm female, but I will never vote for Hilary. I'm white, and I may vote for Obama. We'll see. I just wish he had more experience, especially with foreign policy.
I find it so interesting how the racial divide is really showing in the Democrat party now. People should be taking note. This is the party that claims to have taken the moral high ground on race. We're seeing what the Democrats are really made of.
So tired of how the press is painting the Hilary/Obama race as being 'all about race' or 'about gender,' and that those voting for either are 'voting their race or their gender.' What, as opposed to those who have been voting for white men for two hundred years? Bill Clinton made some silly comments but answer me this - the republican race is not about race??? Look at them. Look at them again. Are they not ALL UPPER CLASS WHITE MALES? Are you going to tell me that is not about RACE? But see, it is invisible to people because in this country (and Britain, I bet), white and male (and upper class) is the default position - it just looks 'natural.' As soon as you see a woman up there running for president, or a Black man, race and gender become visible and the press (and SOME of the public) gets all jumpy and starts to try to turn this legitimate, inclusive race into a side-show joke, picking up any slightly stupid comment a candidate might make, on either side, and amplifying it all over the place for days instead of looking at the real issues. Why not talk about how come the republicans can't offer up anybody but a bunch of rich white men AS USUAL? Why not talk about how America has been 'voting race and gender' since the founding FATHERS - voting the white race and the male gender? (And the rich class.) Why don't we talk about that for a while instead of baiting Hilary and Obama? Now THAT would be an honest conversation.
Oh dear, I'm white and a woman, what am I doing supporting and voting for a black male for president of the US? Could it be that I believe what he is saying? Could it be that I evaluate people on what they say and what they don't say, how they act and don't act, how they vote and don't vote? Could it be that I think for myself? Most importantly, could it be I am sick and tired of "same old, same old" which is what I really get with McCain and Clinton. Obama has my vote and my support 'cause my country is in BIG trouble and more of the same is only going to give us more of the same. (And I have this idealistic faith in the commonsense of the American people. One of these days they are going to wake up, and maybe it will be today.)
I really hope Obama win the Democratic nomination. Hillary is more a threat to the Republican party than Obama. So the good old Republican Party can kick his ass also. Just like they did that out of touch rich boy from MA during the last election. Senator Obama is a one time Senator who won an all black district (thats the only way he could win). I'm an independent guess where my vote is going?
No one is saying that all black people who vote for Obama are doing so because they want a black man in the White House. Similarly, no one is saying that all white people who voted for Hillary or Edwards did so because they want a white person in the White House. So these comments that say, "Well, I'm white and I'm voting for a black person," or "I'm black and voting for a black person because of his message, not his skin color," are really just space-wasting strawmen. Fact is when 90% of black voters go for the black candidate, versus less than half of the white voters, it's difficult to deny that race may be a factor for some blacks and some whites.
As for the American "hang-up" on race, we are really no more hung up on the subject then any other racially, or even ethnically, diverse country. We certainly aren't as hung up on it as the Kenyans, who are killing each other over ethnic differences. There are difficulties to living in a truly multi-racial society, and personally, I think modern Americans tend to navigate such difficulties well.
White Male from a Southern State
You have to forgive my fellow country men making comments below, who are lacking a sense of history or reason. Obama can be the best candidate and maintain a certain sense historical signifigance in his attempt at winning the democratic nomination. White people in America are often quick jump to the defensive when challenged about their racial prejudices. In the same breath in which the deny any racist tendencies, they quickly lash out at Black Americans for reaching out for sense of accomplishment and a feeling of being equel. This now is being manifested in an eloquent leader who inspires hope like we haven't seen in quite some time, well at least in my life time ( I am 29).
Why can't People of color vote for this man in the aspiration of reaching a level playing field and equality of which they have been denied for so long. A person can be both a good leader and a realization of hope for a people. I think it is truly unfortunate that an insecure portion of the population has to reduce this to childish race blaming.
I would be more worried about the racial divide in the South Carolina primary results if I had a sense that those white Democrats who voted for Senator Clinton would not vote for Senator Obama were he to win the nomination. I suspect more Obama voters will have to think twice about voting for Clinton in the general election if she were the Democratic nominee than Clinton voters would have to think twice about voting for Obama. In the south, at least, the white Democrats who would not vote for a black nominee all became Republicans in the 1980s. The Democrats are hungry enough for a victory, and angry enough, that they will not be crippled by quarrels among the candidates, who, unlike the Republican candidates, basically stand for the same things anyway.
I understand that the modern party has ditched its old southern traditions but, even so, are all Democrats so reliably free of the taint of racism? Are any of us, black, white or any other colour?
-I think the answer is indeed more complex that just the color of Senator Obama's skin, Mr. Webb, and it has to do with an aspect you haven't really examined as much: age.
I am white, for the record. I was born at a time (1982) where a piece of the conversation about race began to change: unlike somebody born 25 years before me, I grew up getting belly laughs from Steve Urkel on television and learning about the successes of black people like Michael Jordan or Vivian Thomas (rather than a bigoted view of a bunch of violent nincompoops.) I got to witness others firsthand as I got older: by the time I was ten I had a black pal, a girl named Caroline. At sixteen I was watching the movie Mississippi Burning with my history teacher (a black man) and had his tale to learn from of what it was like AFTER the Civil Rights Era quieted down. I even saw Lewis Farrakhan march on Washington, and though I was concerned, I believed he had a right to say his piece (dogs and hoses NOT needed.)
Somebody born in 1957 wouldn't have seen much of this in their backyard. The things he would have grown up on were All In The Family on TV, possible racist rhetoric at home (and in the courts,) and bloody battles over race which divided father and son. Many fought against such unfairness in the status quo and taught their children differently, but on the other hand I can tell you honestly my parents' generation bears some scars from it that it hasn't really acknowledged: in many ways, they still think along the parameters of that timeline.
Enter the Democratic Party, or at least I should say, Bill Clinton: he knows this part real well. (As an aside, I am surprised by how few Brits know how powerful he is as a politician: one of his nicknames is "Slick Willie.") He knows it would be stupid for his wife to go after Obama directly on racial issues: she'll look like a villain. But if he brings it up it has potential to bait older voters-split them even. Combine that with the constant rhetoric over "experience," and the Clintons have got a virtual baby boomer magnet to their cause.
I question the ethics of doing this in the Clinton camp: as well as growing up with some things better than our parents had we've also had to endure a lot of hardship the mainstream press doesn't seem to care for: we were born during Reaganomics. We're the ones who are going to have to clean up the mess while the boomers retire...and we'll have to pay for them when they are old and sick with a failing system...which we are not guaranteed will exist when it is time for us to retire. We've watched a sick merry-go-round with Bush; we've been the ones sent to die in Iraq. We've witnessed politicians go from "I feel your pain" to feeding the troll with a race debate, the same politician who trounced his opposition with the help of a big black vote-twice! A good deal of us, thus, are sickened by this woman who smiles and laughs for the cameras but whose record on the war is bad, who expects the young (18-35) to pay for a healthcare system she hasn't sufficiently explained, and acts like the presidency is a birthright. (Her involvement with Walmart and Whitewater do not bode well either: she didn't run Walmart into the ground, but she helped serve a behemoth that destroys a lot of local businesses wherever it slithers.)
I often wonder how much Bill Clinton and his wife have misjudged this issue: though South Carolina is only a pause until the much bigger fight on Super Tuesday I often wonder if the Clintons realize how much many young folks are tired of being unheard, white AND black. I wonder if Hillary realizes a message of hope sure beats her smugness and that, thanks to the internet and availability of certain things (including blogs) her damage control will have to find different tactics if this gets any bigger.
I wonder if she realizes that I am not voting for Barak Obama because he is black, but because he has campaigned tirelessly on stopping the war, fixing our foreign relations, and having the audacity to have hope (or new ideas even.)
As I see it, the single most important factor that is influencing this Presidential election is the idea that the person elected should be more willing to compromise and actually make use of due process rather than making decrees based on fear and uncertainty. Obama comes across as more willing to make a measured response (i.e., consulting multiple sources, conferring with advisers, etc) rather than making a decision based on what he "feels is right". We've had 8 years of doing "what feels right" and it hasn't brought us anything but temporary periods of relative 1980s style normalcy. Was our economy doing well? No, not really. Is it doing well now? Hmmm, let me think for a moment about that. Is the war over? Did it accomplish anything to end terrorism? Or did it just make the majority of people on the planet confused and frightened of the USA?
The Clinton years weren't any golden age for our country, but it follows a cycle that's happened before - we have a President with a great deal of authority, he oversteps his bounds, potentially breaking federal law, and then someone that is more moderate will take over. See Ford and Carter following Nixon, also Eisenhower following Truman, and more recently Bush and Clinton following Reagan. Obama strikes me as more likely at this point for the sheer fact that he has appeal (despite, and I will admit the point, a general lack on HOW he plans on changing things) among republicans for not appearing so liberal as to be anathema to what their preferred policies are.
I find this focus on Clinton and Obama repulsive. Whatever anyone says, it is about gender and race - it's simply that in this case those two things are playing in the favor of the candidates. I totally agree with # 7, I think. Obama is like Segolene Royal - a cute proposition, but low on actual policies or issues. In about 4 - 7 years he'll make a good president. I don't like Clinton because she is all the things everyone has ever said about her. Has anyone here bothered to look at Edwards? Maybe he's a white male, but he talks about poverty, the minimum wage, health care and other things that matter to a civilized society. But, then again, he is just a boring white man with no star power or exciting celebrity-like charisma. Seriously, I think a failing 1st world country such as the U.S. just needs someone to talk about "change" and take a lot of good photos, so long as that candidate doesn't actually do anything to alter the status quo. Enjoy your shiny new president, suckers - I'm glad I'm in Canada.
This is so funny. I read ll the comments and laugh. I'm young,...well 32. I could care less about which one wins( I like them all)yes, I'm african american...who cares(yawning)I want a worker..who will work for all americans!Our country is a mess..no matter who gets in office, no change will come for about 2yrs. Our economy is horrible(don't be mislead)we are in debt..really! we are at war(still)so while you old people with old ideas sit and argue the young...yawn...it's old and we would replace every one of the old washington game players if we could...
Just want to say that yet USA is not ready to see any female or black man as a president. I know many people regardless gender, color or race will vote for the deserving person but I believe the percentage of such people is less than who consider these factors. My honest feeling is that we will see a while male president again in 2009.
From Canada
i am an african,and until now, i have been living with this idea that america,the cradle of democracy, is so civilised that sentiments like race,gender,religion,were not part of national issues such as election. i now know the truth thanks to the barack obama and hilary clinton's election champaign.