Ö÷²¥´óÐã

I usually giggle at comments about Ö÷²¥´óÐã bias, but it really feels that Rory has to squirm to avoid mentioning Android. Have Tesco specifically stated that they will be prioritising Windows/Nokia over Android?

have Strabucks said they will not develop for Android? (No, they haven't: ).

It is bizzare that he feels unable to use the A word in these blogs.

PS I'm not particularly an Android fan, just puzzled.

Interesting. Combined with the new NFC chips in the likes of Nokia's C7 this could prove quite interesting. I remember the original app coming out on Nokia first as about 30-40% of Tesco's online customers have Nokia smartphones. Just a little perspective, you understand.

However, I also remember back in the earlier part of the decade Safeway trying out handheld scanners which proved to be a failure. Most people simply couldn't be bothered scanning things.

Never underestimate the power of human laziness.

Again... no mention of Android. What's the deal?

Tesco is, of course, wrong.

The Ocado app for Android (or A* if Rory prefers) features bar code scanning, and also a surprisingly effective voice search. So I can scan my almost-empty carton of baby milk, or click the microphone button and say "Baileys Cream" to find the elusive double cream with Baileys that a friend swore exists but couldn't find on the Tesco website.

And they price-match Tesco on most products too. So, welcome to the party, Tesco and iPhone owners. But I'm afraid that at best you're fashionably late.

Rory Cellan-Jones.

"Could the barcode, a technology invented 60 years ago, be the next big thing in making mobile phones a powerful shopping tool?"

this is widespread in Japan, time it happened here too; the big supermarkets now all have the (technological) infrastructure in place, and virtually all of us have mobiles with cameras, bring it on.

"In the United States.."

yeah, if they have it, then it must be good.

Another good Apple post Rory.

It's a shame this can't be linked to instore shopping more easily. Some of us still like to get the exercise and visit shops.

Once upon a time, if you lost your phone it was a minor inconvenience. But the way things are going, in a couple of years, if we lose our phones, we'll find ourselves broke, lost, locked out of our own homes and cars, and probably deleted from officialdom's records. The "Phoneless" will be forced to band together for survival, eking out a meagre, 'Mad Max 2' - style scavenging existence in the sewers and ruins and woods, looked down upon and feared by the sophisticated iUrbanites, and eventually devolving into a separate species.

Why can't people just allow Rory to write a post about an interesting use of technology without complaining that he hasn't mentioned their favourite phone or supermarket? If you check the news sites, you'll find that it's Tesco that have just announced an iPhone app. It's pretty much inevitable that other supermarkets will do (or already have done) a similar thing, and that other phones will also be included. But the story is about the technology. If I'm excited about it, I will of course ask the question (via Bing, not through this forum) whether it will apply to my supermarket and my phone. And if it's really exciting, it might even affect my choice of where to shop or which phone to buy.

Rory the reaction to your Android avoidence is quite entertaining. I think next week you should develop a bias that the Apple fans can kick off about for a while.

In terms of the barcode scanning app I suppose it depends on the take up, Tesco's approach is novel and may get some traction but I think as a concept people will have to get used to it so if a few retailers are doing it we would all get in the habit.

It shouldn't be too hard, most of my friends use Shizam for music and that sits in the same conceptual space.

Looks like he's changed the article to mention the A word. Interesting subject because I was thinking of photographing a barcode on a tins of toms in my local supermarket using my iphone then seeing if it would register at the self-service checkout.
This has potential but for what? Definately not assessing the dinner hosts generousity or otherwise.

#2 I still occassionaly self scan if I go to waitrose.
It must have been in the 1990s that safeway was doing self scan because I used to use it regularly when I lived near Basingstoke. At the same time safeway and sainsbury's had plastic boxes the size of shopping baskets you could buy to put shopping into rather than the carrier bags - these were cheap and there were special trolleys that could fit them, I'm surprised that with the growth of "bag for life" these boxes seem not part of the green shop today.

I suppose the next revolution beyond the app is built in scanner in the fridge/cupboard which is internet connected and automatically generates new stock order for 2 months time having calculated the rate of consumption of the tomato ketchup.

Press release copying/pasting journalism at it's worst.
There would have been no need for the update if the journalist had of researched the story first.

I can see more intelligent apps on the horizon which will figure out that you scan oven chips every two weeks and begine to automatically purchase it every two weeks for you in future. Maybe this is one technology that you might want to disable any auto-update facilities.

@Tengsted
For god's sake, this is a blog, not a heavily researched survey of supermarket apps for smart phones.

I'm tired of people bickering about which phone/platform gets the most attention on this blog. For info (and because I was bored in my lunch break) here is the frequency distribution of some words from Rory's posts in October:

Facebook: 57
Windows: 26
iPhone: 26
Android: 25
Apple: 24
Google: 23
Microsoft: 20
Nokia: 10
Samsung: 7
Symbian: 6

Can't we have some intelligent debate about the interesting uses of cameras in smart phones instead?

What we really need is a barcode scanning app that checks for the best price across multiple outlets not just Tesco...

oh hang on there's one already, sorry it's iphone only at the moment

Red Laser

All this Apple gets a mention Android does not moaning is quite playgroundish and comes across as merely Ö÷²¥´óÐã bashing.

Anyhoo, regarding the future of bar-code technology, yes, it could be used my those interested in whipping their phones out the majority will be too lazy to do this.

Can you imagine the accidents caused in supermarkets when shoppers take one hand off their shopping trollies to operate their whatever-phone. I foresee class action law suits following a multiple trolly pile-up in in the fruit and veg section.

Nope, bar-code scanners are old hat, now, RFID chips in each product is the way forward. Linked to GPS locators in modern mobile phones, a shopper will merely have to pick up the goods, walk out of the shop, and as they cross the shops threshold the cost of the goods they have picked up and walked out with will be automatically paid for by the RFID/GPS/Banking intercommunication app.

You read it here first, possibly.

@14
You're free to accept any old standards.
I, however, expect higher standards that what was produced.

And as for the fact it's on a Blog, what difference does that make? It's only a "News" story with user generated comments.

Andy #17.

"You read it here first, possibly."

'fraid not, September 1, 2003:

:-) @ jr4412

@16: That particular one may be iPhone-only, but ShopSavvy will serve the needs of Android owners (and in a highly unscientific head-to-head test scanning things around the office did better than Red Laser at finding some products). Realistically, this sort of innovation will find its way from one phone brand to the next quite quickly.

@8: My Android-related comments were tongue-in-cheek, obviously. But the complaint about Tesco's claim (as put forward in the original article) was genuine and valid - this isn't the first barcode-scanning mobile shopping app. The Ocado app predates it and is *very* slick on Android. Hopefully the iPhone version should be getting the extra features too in a future release so Apple users aren't stuck with Tesco. :P

14. At 1:38pm on 26 Oct 2010, camyeoerfraefrance wrote:
.. this is a blog, not a heavily researched survey of supermarket apps for smart phones.

So, stuff we read from the Ö÷²¥´óÐã stable under 'blogs' (and, heaven forfend, tweets) are pretty much suspect on any basis?

At least the broadcast editorial is reliable:) But some savings are now suggested.

@18
Whether you accept it or not, you will find that different standards are applied in different circumstances. I would expect high standards for content where there has been sufficient time to do a thorough job. Different (and by implication lower) standards (of accuracy, completeness, source checking, and spelling and grammar) will apply for breaking news stories. I would put blogs somewhere between those extremes. A blog is not a news story.

And I'm sure you wouldn't have made the typo you made if you hadn't simply been commenting on a blog ...

@JunkMale
Ah, I'd forgotten about tweets. Always suspect of course :-)

But I wouldn't really call Ö÷²¥´óÐã blogs "suspect". I'm sure we all know not to expect the same degree of rigour and impartiality in a blog as we would in a news story. And obviously not in the comments.

You obviously stay in more expensive hotels than I do Rory. In the US I frequently find myself in hotels without a Computer Suite and no access to a printer. So being able to check in to my homeward flight on my phone and not need a printed boarding pass means that I get to choose my seat early and don't have to do it at the airport

@23/24

I would expect high standards for content where there has been sufficient time to do a thorough job. Different (and by implication lower) standards (of accuracy, completeness, source checking, and spelling and grammar) will apply for breaking news stories. I would put blogs somewhere between those extremes. A blog is not a news story.

Ahh, so this blog had a deadline had it? Hmm, it was obviously such an important piece that standards had to have been dropped. Yeah, right.

I'm sure we all know not to expect the same degree of rigour and impartiality in a blog as we would in a news story.

So you'd be happy if Nick Robinson blogged "Vote Tory!" in his Ö÷²¥´óÐã Blog and Andrew Marr blogged that the "ConDems will ruin Britain!" in his.

Well, I wouldn't. Standards should be maintained across all Ö÷²¥´óÐã platforms.

The Ö÷²¥´óÐã, whether they like it or not, (as it's in their charter), have a duty to be impartial. Occasions, such as this one, where there was a rush to produce a blog piece from a press release, without fully checking facts first is a very poor show.

As for the typo, meah, I'm not a Journalist.

"Standards should be maintained across all Ö÷²¥´óÐã platforms."

I'm loving the irony here - keep it up! :-)

If you know of a more impartial news source than the Ö÷²¥´óÐã, let me know.

The Ö÷²¥´óÐã, itself, albeit a few years back.

Those were indeed the days. When the Ö÷²¥´óÐã was able to tread that thin line between impartiality on the one hand and partiality on the other.

Tengsted #28.
(Andy)
(camyeoerfraefrance)

"The Ö÷²¥´óÐã, itself, albeit a few years back."

just over seven years ago, Kelly and Gilligan, two people who weren't cowed by strength of the 'dark side'. then the proverbial hit the fan and that was the end of the Ö÷²¥´óÐã we loved.



we do live in interesting times. ;)

jr4412,

Yup, jackbooted into submission/the grave. Pity :-(

Glad to see the Android correction, but can I pick up on the flight check-in bit? ;-) I know BA just recently released an iPhone app (which I guess is what you're referring to, Rory), but I've been using mobile phone boarding passes with bmi for at least a year, if not two (on a few different SonyEricsson phones as well as my HTC Desire). It uses the older fashioned MMS (picture messaging) but this has the advantage of working with lots more phones and really works pretty nicely. I also find it's useful when you're travelling and don't have easy access to a printer - nice to have the BP and go straight to security :-)

@26
"The Ö÷²¥´óÐã, whether they like it or not, (as it's in their charter), have a duty to be impartial."

I'd be fascinated to see where it says this - I've just had a look at the charter, and nowhere does the word "impartial" make an appearance. It is required to be independent, but that's something quite different - it means it should not be swayed by the demands of either the Apple or Android-touting crowd for instance...

And how does one define impartiality anyway? Giving equal time and space to all is clearly not viable: there are clearly some phoneOS for instance which are more important than others (giving as much time on this blog to non-smart-phones would be silly). So how is impartiality assessed? ON the basis of market share? Value of the company? By both of these measures Apple should be getting more, not less, exposure than it currently does.

Personally, I think Rory gets it about right.

Hi Rory

In Tesco.com R&D we're working on your "desire" - to enable in-store "scan as you shop" using your smartphone. It's early days yet but I've written up about the work so far in my blog article:



Best regards
Nick Lansley
Tesco.com R&D

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

@nicklansley
I used the app at home last night to add several items to a shopping basket. It worked flawlessly, but I was careful to arrange the barcodes so that they could be scanned properly. Perhaps I needn't be so fussy, but it didn't seem like the sort of process you would want to repeat a couple of dozen times in a supermarket. (Sorry - not allowed to access blogspot from work!)

Hi Rory,

As designers of the app, we worked hard with Tesco to think about the practical context of use for mobile grocery scanning. Here's a few thoughts:

Customers are now able to quickly and conveniently add products like milk to their online basket before putting their empties in the recycling bin. It's all about the short bursts of shopping activity, as opposed to carrying out a full shop every time you get your phone out. These are roughly 10-15 second experiences. Scan it. Add it. Forget about it. Simple.

Furthermore, looking at how this would apply to traditional grocery shopping, some customers may wish to venture into competitors’ stores to scan and add products at potentially cheaper prices than those in-store.

We think that this new concept for groceries will work best for the more demand-elastic, higher value products that aren’t deemed necessities, and therefore can be delivered a few days later without inconvenience.

The ability to scan simply brings together the intangible nature of an online shopping service, with the hands-on product interactions we have every day. It's a very interesting and growing area and certain to contribute to the increased convenience of everyday grocery m-commerce.

Jerome Ribot
Creative Director

I think it's great that technology is moving this way.
Being able to scan the last item at home and add to your online shopping basket is a great move forward.
We were just disappointed in our household that it's currently for iPhone only because we'd love this functionality now. :-)

Yes, we're both Android users but we're not fanatical either way about one device or another.

The problem is the industry - Tesco says on it's website that it supports cross-platform apps. This is obviously not the case but this is not Tesco's fault.
The only way that a true cross-platform app can be developed is in languages such as Java or Flash and each of the main players are making it difficult for this to happen across platforms.
The developer of this app (Ribot) is now in a very difficult position - Apple and Nokia were dominant but Android now appears to be on a par in numbers with the other platforms. They could end up developing for multiple platforms and the gamble could be large - should they develop for Windows 7 before its success, or not, is clear? They could end up spending a huge effort on platforms that don't last.

For now we have to use 3rd party apps to scan our products and manually add the items into Tesco online :-(

Here I come out of left field to offer a different perspective.
Smart phone this, smart phone that - what happens if modern technology goes down.
Have we not put all of our eggs (unscanned) into on basket (unscanned).
The more dependent, technology makes us on smart equipment, the less independent we are, and the less we use our brains for the purpose for which they were intended: To know thyself and to thine own self be true.
Was there not just a study done that said some students actually show signs of withdrawal if deprived of their modern toys for even twenty-four hours. How uncomfortable can you get in your own skin!
No "clever" phone can serve an essentially dumbed-down human being if that clever phone has been cleverly demobilized.

@33

The Agreement that sits along side the charter

/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/about/how_we_govern/agreement.txt

Have a look, and you'll see plenty about impartiality and fairness.

While Rory generally does a decent job, and varies his subject matter more than another dot blog, I feel the rush to publish in this case, without proper fact checking, was wrong.

@41

Thank-you - that does clearly have much to say about impartiality, although most to do with "controversial subjects" which - responses to this blog notwithstanding, I think it could be argued this is not. Still, I admit there is enough there to certainly argue most output of the Ö÷²¥´óÐã should aim towards impartiality.

Regardless, I still think the question should be asked, how actually does one define impartiality? I agree that in this particular case, the fact that Tesco appear initially to have made a claim which proved false was unfortunate, and thus in this case a blog which could be perceived as less than impartial was published. But overall, like you, I think Rory does a good job of balanced output. Many feel otherwise, but I sense frequently that this is not genuinely due to a desire for impartiality, more a desire for more exposure of their own personal cause célèbre, whatever that might happen to be.

Musric #41.
(Tengsted)

"..how actually does one define impartiality?"

in this particular case? a quick survey of all national supermarket chains (or the 'big five' at least) re what their current plans are would have done since it would have allowed RCJ to write a paragraph or two outlining the situation with reference to the others while writing his post about Tesco.

24. At 4:27pm on 26 Oct 2010, camyeoerfraefrance wrote:
@JunkMale
Ah, I'd forgotten about tweets.

And don't forget cutting and pasting. That way things like names can be easily ported without mis-spellings, which can matter to some.

But I wouldn't really call Ö÷²¥´óÐã blogs "suspect".

As is your right.

I'm sure we all know...

Ah, there we must part. What you believe and 'we all' know can often be different.

'...not to expect the same degree of rigour and impartiality in a blog as we would in a news story. And obviously not in the comments.

For the latter, well, yes, obviously. Comments do reflect the vast scope of opinion that exists out there. To be taken on their merits, or lack of, based on skill in argument and reliability of reference. Which, it seems, would seem to mean not using anything in a Ö÷²¥´óÐã blog, by a paid 'reporter' of a £3.6B uniquely-funded news and entertainment corporation, as a basis for reliable information. In case, at best, it was done in hurry.

As to what might be expected, maybe some do expect rigour and impartiality. Some even can't imagine such things not existing:

/blogs/theeditors/2010/09/impartiality_is_in_our_genes.html - sadly, if ironically, now closed for comments.

Or anything getting in the way:

/blogs/aboutthebbc/2010/10/new-bbc-editorial-guidelines-l.shtml

So between saving money by writing any old thing and using cuts as excuses to reduce and terminate any avenues for non outbound broadcast-only feedback if it is found wanting, it doesn't seem too encouraging.