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Overnight care
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Does anyone know if one can get someone just to sleep over with an elderly person? She needs no care but sometimes falls and cannot get up again. Would the 'carer' be authorised to lift her up. she is very light.
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Message 2
Posted by pahnda (U6794915) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
A home care agency should be able to provide this service locki. Carers should not physically lift someone i.e. take their whole weight, but there shouldn't be a problem with helping her up.
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Message 3
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Thank you so much pahnda. We are wondering if this sort of care is only for short periods, say after a hospital stay. We are looking for a permanent way to enable my Mum to remain in her home. I found one care agency and it is very expensive, more expensive than a residential home! Do Social Service provide this sort of care at all? She does not need any care other than being helped up. It is so tricky, any other sort of care for her such as living with me or in a home, at the moment is too drastic and premature.
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Message 4
Posted by pahnda (U6794915) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
It is certainly expensive if you have to pay the full cost yourselves. Does your Mum get attendance allowance, which would help towards the cost? Has your Mum been assessed by a social worker/care manager? Social services may contribute to the cost but this would depend on a financial assessment of your Mum. Alternatively, you could employ someone privately.
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Message 5
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
My Mum has just started receiving attendance allowance. Well, I think it is, it's £77 a week and not means tested. Is that the one?
At the moment she has an alarm bracelet. My brother is the only contact phone number and he has now decided it is too disruptive for him and his wife to be woken.........don't get me started on that! He is very little troubled by my mUm otherwise although he and his wife visit her 3 or 4 times a week but it is just a visit. No car or housework except occasional shopping. I live 200 miles away. I would have thought not that frequent awakenings were a small price to pay to keep my Mum in her home and save a huge amount of money but I can't make him agree to continue to be the contact number. There is no-one else willing to be it.I am willing to have my Mum live with us but I have stairs and steps in my house, my Mum will be loth to move from her hometown of 60 plus years and she is still fairly independent except at night . Don't think she will be receptive to ideas of a home yet either as she still looks after herself, if with increasing difficulty. We are about to embark on a nightmare shared by many and are to discuss it with my Mum next week. She does not know this yet!! My brother has the unenviable task of telling her about his reuctance to continue being her night time contact!! -
Message 6
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
should be ' I would have thought that INFREQUENT awakenings were a small price to pay to keep my Mum in her own home etc and 'no care or housework'!
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Message 7
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Locki, if it is just a matter of finding someone prepared to be her night time contact ... ie the person who is woken up by her 'alarm' ... perhaps that person could live in their own home and be prepared to turn out if woken by your mother .. in the way your brother is.
Do you know if any of your mother's neigbours might be prepared to do this for you? They might be paid say £10 a night ... and £35 a night if they are called out.
Just a suggestion ....
Westie :0)) -
Message 8
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Thanks for your reply westie. My Mum's neighbours are not prepared to be contacts. My Mum had to rouse one by knocking on the all around Christmas time. She had to shuffle on the floor to do this. She falls getting out of bed and simply cannot get up again. The alarm service calls the ambulance but also expects the contact to turn up too! It is a problem. If my Mum was more dependent than she is the way ahead would be more clear. Very soon, she is going to have to chose from options none of which she is going to like!!!!
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Message 9
Posted by planetzig (U7531074) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Furiouslocki,
If your brother is unwilling to take responsibility for infrequent awakenings then make sure that he is totally involved in finding a solution.
The responsibility is not yours alone.
Don't allow other siblings to opt out.
Something you start is very difficult to stop.
If you have to travel long mileage then someone must share the cost with you.
Either brother or mother's income.
And other siblings must input as much time as you.
I'm not being unkind or uncaring.
Been there.
Its hard. -
Message 10
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Could you advertise in your local newspaper? Nightime carer required.
I hate the idea of your mum moving out of her home having got through the winter and with lighter days just around the corner.
There must be advice from perhaps the Library on local charities that might be able to help.
Contact your local residential homes and ask if they know anyone who works as a carer during the day would welcome some extra money to be on duty for your mum at night.
Come on Lockie, get a bigger hammer :0))))) -
Message 11
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Locki, I just wondered if a neighbour could be approached and told a small fee was payable. Would that make a difference. The neighbour would then be in touch with the alarm service as a named person and your mother would not feel she was imposing if she needed help. Maybe in time a Ö÷²¥´óÐã will have to be considered but it would give her a little more time to come around to the idea.
I think they like the contact there in case the person is confused by a fall. My neighbour used to get muddled when they called him back and I would have to go in to explain to him why there was a stranger in his living room. His problem was early dementia, as we discovered later. -
Message 12
Posted by msannamaria (U13902323) on Saturday, 4th April 2009
Hi,
Here are a few suggestions to your plight,
Direct payments - you can arrange for a private carer to stay overnight. This is a payment paid by social services on top of any benefits already in place. Your mother will need an assessment from a social worker first. In the meantime you could look up 'direct payments' on the internet for more info.
Adult placement schemes offer overnight support however Im not sure if this would be on a long term basis. Again check it out with your local authority.
If your mother needs more support on a long term basis she may need to consider extra care housing. This is in effect one step down from residential care and is being promoted by many local authorities as a more appropriate alternative and dare I say it cost effective way of meeting an older person's care needs. The person still maintain's a level of privacy in a private flat with homecarers to assist as necessary and an emergency overnight contact.
Good luck. -
Message 13
Posted by peskylogin (U2369503) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Am wondering why she falls at night. Could she have a commode next to the bed.
Mother, unless mentally unable, should contribute to the decision.
Maybe an occupational therapist could devise a method for her to get up. My mother has occasionally managed by crawling/dragging herself to her recliner chair (heavy enough to pull on) then by lying on the seat managed to get up onto her knees and up onto the chair. -
Message 14
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Nursing agencies like BUPA are a good start
I wouldn't put an add in the paper as you may attract the wrong types and you need someone with experience not necessarily a nurse but someone with some basic qualification.
NHS direct may be some help too -
Message 15
Posted by jane_berry (U3025755) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
I was going to say the same Mrs O - nursing agencies are a good place to look. They don't just service hospitals but do domestic care as well. Certainly when I was training some of my fellow students undertook domestic care - some of them even looked after Stephen Hawking. Not particularly nursing care but just being there if needed
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Message 16
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:15 GMT, in reply to jane_berry in message 15
Some councils run schemes where younger people -- students especially -- live as house-sharers with elderly people and in return are contracted to provide specific ordinary every day care. From what you've said of you mother, she sounds like she'd be a wonderful woman for a 20 year old to get to know, and they would be there to help her back into bed. It's what I'll have to contemplate in that situation, as I have no younger family near by. -
Message 17
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
The idea of advertising for someone came from me ... I only mention it as years ago an elderly lady neighbour of ours needed someone to odd jobs and gardening and we advertised in local shops and several people replied. They all lived within a little distance and we met them initially in their homes to interview them and to see how they lived and we ended up with two people, one to do the garden and one to do the odd jobs. It has been a totally successful experience. Delightful people.
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Message 18
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Ther is a huge difference between having someone doing odd job around the place to having someone stay overnight in a house with a vulnerable older person.
Lots of lovely people in the world but alas a lot who are not.
Always get professional advice and agencies in a situation like this , it isn't like calling a window cleaner -
Message 19
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
You may well be right Mrs O.
However, I have some experience of using an agency to provide 24/7 care for my husband's aunt who developed dementia but was desperate to live at home, and it wasn't an entirely happy experience. One carer has remained a friend of ours to this day and is horrified at some of the other staff that are used... she has to hand over to them at the end of her shifts.
We had to use an agency as like Locki we are the other side of the country, but we wished we had lived locally so we could have selected the aunt's carers ourselves.
I remember telling the woman in charge of the agency that she had made a rod for her own back as she told us a load of guff about how she selected staff suitable for a given situation etc and we could expect continuity etc. Ha ha!
The aunt's neighbours were wonderful and she had a gardener who remained constant, and luckily we would get tipped off if one of the carers seemed particularly unsuitable. One or two of the carers were ever prepared to write disparaging things in the diary! They didn't care .. they would be gone!
If Locki could find ideally two people who her mother gets to know, then it could work out that she can continue to live in her home for a lot longer than you might expect.
I'm only thinking aloud here, and perhaps some of what I say might prove helpful.
Westie :0) -
Message 20
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
One or two of the carers were 'even' prepared to write disparaging things in the diary!
Sorry .. should proof read more carefully. -
Message 21
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:02 GMT, in reply to furiouslocki in message 1
Locki, if it just about having someone as the contact on the emergency call, where I am there is something called Careline where someone will come out when the alarm is pressed - usually a key to the property is kept in a key safe outside the house so that they can let themselves in. It's run by the local council, so is properly done and vetted. I think there are 2 levels, one of which is to call named contacts, but the second level they provide someone to come out.
It might be worth investigating if something similar is available locally. -
Message 22
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Hebe. My Mum is part of a system that uses contacts. The problem is my brother does not any longer want to be that contact and there is no other non-professional person who wants to either! I am too far away. I am a little confused as to the requirement for my brother to attend as well as the ambulance. The last time this happened my brother did not attend as he said he was unwell, he had a stomach bug the day bekfore or the day before that! I am reluctant to comment on my brother's behaviour but you can imagine I have views! However, living so far away, I do not have much moral high ground as far as he is concerned and I don't suppose I do really. The ambulance men checked my Mum over and she said she just wanted them tio go and go back to sleep! However, my brother doesn't think
the scheme will continue to provide the service if he continuously fails to attend. A commode is not an answer as my Mum has fallen each time getting out of bed which she would still have to do.
Thank you all so much I will now have to spend some time looking into all the suggestions.
Never fear, Furious is on it!! -
Message 23
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
I wonder if someone is required to be there to avoid the ambulance 'men' being accused of anything.
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Message 24
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:28 GMT, in reply to furiouslocki in message 22
the scheme I'm talking about provides a "professional" (not ambulance) to attend and a personal contact isn't expected to attend. We use it for people without family close by - it's far cheaper than a living in carer, and is more appropriate in most cases when a full time or night time carer isn't really needed to be there all the time.
best of luck with finding a solution. -
Message 25
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Oh, I forgot. My brother and I are giving my Mum a choice of options. Unfortunately, they will not include the ones she would like! That is a continuance of the status quo with her at home with my brother responding to the nightime phone calls or living with him and his wife!! She will still have some choice though. I will defend him and say that a phone ringing at night nearly gieves one a heart attack and turning out is bluddy awful but then the alternatives arn't going to be much fun for my Mum. After all, she may 'have' to live with me!!! A fate worse than death (or a home) may be? We shall see.
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Message 26
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Hebe. I did not realise you meant a professional contact. Thank you so much for this information. I will look into it straight away.
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Message 27
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
My children used to ring me in the middle of the night and I do know my heart used to race so much I thought I would die and of course my brother and wife are permanately on edge now so I try not to judge them. I just hope they don't moan about it so much that my Mum stops pressing her alarm. That is a worry now.
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Message 28
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Locki, my mother (died when 99) lived somewhere where there was a buzzer in each room to call a resident nurse .... it hung from the ceiling,just beside her when she was in bed .... she NEVER rang it as she didn't want to be a nuisance!
You can only do your best. Try not to worry.
:0) -
Message 29
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Thanks westie. My bloomin' Mum has a light cord over her bed and has never used it. She was groping around with a torch before her fall at Christmas and we 'made her keep the hall light on. I have 'asked her nicely' to have a bedside lamp for years and years. she doesn't even have that! One can indeed only do so much.
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Message 30
Posted by Glorybal-MUSTARDLAND FOREVER (U7278111) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Has your mother any aids to help her getting out of bed? Last year I had a rail thingy which slotted under the mattress and enabled me to sit up and then swing my legs round onto the floor. A pre-positioned Zimmer frame then meant I could stand and move safely. An occupational therapist - available through the GP - should be able to suggest and provide aids that make falls less likely.
Sympathise with you about unhelpful siblings. OH's was one such and even added to difficulties with m-i-l. -
Message 31
Posted by JennyDarling Long Gone (U250754) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Locki, I am my mum's nearest contact as my brother chooses to live abroad. You must insist on your brother sharing the cost if he will not do anything ppractical.
My mother has 2 visits per day from an agency following a referral and care plan being organised, which is 11 and a half hours per week - this is over £140 per week she has to pay, as she has savings, although the attendance allowance helps a bit. If you have someone to sleep in this will be very expensive unless your mum has no savings. It is important to have a referral and not just employ someone from an advert - for security reasons.
Hope something gets sorted out for you soon. -
Message 32
Posted by peskylogin (U2369503) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
It is important to have a referral and not just employ someone from an advert - for security reasons.
Ìý
As my mother lives (and has done for the last 50 years) in a small town where everyone knows everyone else I would try just asking around neighbours and friends to see if someone would be willing to 'go on standby' at night. Or put an ad in the local shop.
There are many fit pensioners who would be glad of the extra money I think. -
Message 33
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Oh thanks for the last 3 posts. More food for thought. The bed frame sounds good but my Mum hates any gadgets, turns her nose up at a zimmer.
I found Careline on the web and am to ring tomorrow. I told my brother about it. -
Message 34
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Locki, I think today is already tomorrow ......
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Message 35
Posted by Letty (U11612567) on Monday, 6th April 2009
I know two people who have the young person living in arrangement. One is a young person who lives in for an elderly lady - she gets free accommodation, and the older woman gets company and someone to be on hand.
The other person is a widower, who has had 'au pairs' organised by his family since his wife passed away. Again, it seems to work.
My point is, these arrangements can work - but just require an awful lot of vetting and preparation
Good luck finding a solution that everyone can be happy with. -
Message 36
Posted by halftidy (U8567554) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Consultas are very good - we used them for my mil - delightful carers - not cheap tho. Luckily she had savings enough to pay. OTOH my stepfather has just cancelled my mother's carers as he refuses to pay for them - she has no money but cannot be means tested as he refuses point blank to co=operate. I live 200 miles away - I think these problems are only to get worse - good luck! At the end of the day we cannot force our parents to do what we think is the sensible thing. It is bad enough losing ones independence without people trying to make every decision for you. I am sure we will all be as intransigent when it is our turn.
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Message 37
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 6th April 2009
halftidy, I think I'm right in saying that the Attendance Allowance is not means tested.
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Message 38
Posted by politeLadyPortia (U7099336) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Confirmed that Attendance Allowance is non means tested.It is disability related and tax free
PLP -
Message 39
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 7th April 2009
Thanks for the further posts. After being directed to various departments of various personal alarm providers I think I established that it is only Saga who do not insist on the attendance of the contact. It is enough for them just to notify the friend and relative and they contact the emergency services. Apparently, if you don't have anyone your solicitor can be your contanct! I am waiting for the bumf about it and am a little sceptical as what you are told by one person in an institution is often contradicted by another!
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