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Book club April - Historical Novels
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:22 GMT
My favourite books! I hope nobody minds my opening this thread for April.
I think the first one I ever read was Anya Seton's "Katherine", which was a creative biography. It did set quite a high standard for my preferences. I then ploughed through dozens of varying quality, and style. I think my aim was to fill in history by reading historical novels from every period, but of course this was not possible.
There seem to be the Biography type about recorded characters, usually near the Throne, then the type where there is a fictional character near the throne, usually rich, because otherwise they tend to die young. They tell the story from an "unknown hanger on" about Royal events. These are usually political.
There are also the social history novels, of which I particularly like Diana Norman's "FitzEmpress's Law".
I have to go for a while, but will return later. -
Message 2
Posted by smee (U2226513) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:28 GMT, in reply to Rwth of Cornovii in message 1
Bit of favourite with me too so I'm bookmarking this thread for inspiration. -
Message 3
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
I like Susanna Gregory's series about a 15C doctor, Matthew Bartholomew, in Cambridge who is drawn into detection work. Atmospheric and well written and [I am told by a historian friend] well researched.
Has anyone read the Sister Fidelma novels by Peter Tremayne. Set in 7C Ireland, Fidelma is sister of the High King, and a lawyer and a religious. Her cases take her on many journeys, often in company of a Saxon monk Eadulf. If you liked Eco's Name of the Rose and the Caedfael series by Ellis Peters, you will like this series. And even if you didn't like those, you may fall under Fidelma's spell. -
Message 4
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:55 GMT, in reply to silverjenny in message 3
Loved the Fidelma series, but made the mistake of reading them all one after another and got very tired of some of the formulaic writing (one more description of Fidelma's alluring red locks and green eyes and I thought I'd thcweam and thcweam and thcweam.)
Can somone please develop reasons why I should try Dorothy Dunnett again? Tried two novels (King Hereafter and first of the Niccolo series) and was unable to finish either.
Love Lindsey Davis though. -
Message 5
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Agree about Dorothy Dunnett, I want to read them but have never got very far and yet other people rave about them.
Yes, I understand about Fidelma; a bit too pretty for her own good sometimes. I suppose as sister to the High King she had to be beautiful! Enjoyed the books perhaps because I didn't read them too close together.
Can I squeak the 1870's in as historical. If so, one of my favourite rereads is Elizabth Goudge's The Dean's Watch. The story of a quiet watchmaker and the Dean of a great cathedral set against the background of a Cathedral city. Wonderful characters, and an unexpected ending.
Must go and get something to eat, and let someone else have a go with their favourites. -
Message 6
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Quick thought, Rwth, did you do a flyer in TB to remind them that this session of the Book Club is open.
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Message 7
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:30 GMT, in reply to silverjenny in message 6
Um, shouldn't really be here, but if you want really robust but immensely moving writing about old Ireland -- I mean mythologically old -- try George Green's novels, Hound, and Hawk.
Disclaimer: he's a colleague of mine ... but they really are good. A bit gory in places. -
Message 8
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:50 GMT, in reply to E. Yore in message 4
me too! I also quite enjoy the Ö÷²¥´óÐã radio adaptations (usually download one for my ipod as a holiday treat,when a new book version doesn't co-incide with my summer holiday).
I'm not a huge fan of the Fidelma series, I enjoyed the first one but the others not so much - though I will get them out of the library.
re Dorothy Dunnett, I've never got to grips with the Niccolo series) but love the Francis Lymond series, and have a reread of the lot every few years or so.
Are we allowed to turn this into another Georgette Heyer fest? -
Message 9
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:54 GMT, in reply to Redbookish in message 7
I just love Elizabeth Goudge and would like to put in a plug for 'The White Witch' - like Du Maurier's 'King's General', it is set during the Civil War period and I just loved it (as I have loved all her novels - especially Green Dolphin Country).
Re Fidelma: apart from struggling, hopelessly, with the pronunciations, I did wonder just how accurate Tremayne is, with regard to the period. If it is more or less accurate, then I was very surprised to see how different the early Celtic Church tradition was from that which would dominate from the Council of Whitby. Hope Dean sees this to give us her opinion.
My problem with Dunnett is that I cannot see who I am supposed to follow as hero, or even like or even understand to be a protagonist. Loads of very dense writing, but do I actually care about any of them?
I am a great fan of Edward Rutherfurd's big epics - 'Sarum', 'London', 'The Forest', 'Russka' and the Dublin series. I always find, though, that he runs out of steam for the more modern periods, while being best on mediaeval times - that was certainly the case for 'Sarum' and 'London'. -
Message 10
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:58 GMT, in reply to Hebe in message 8
And the prize goes to Hebe for first mentioning Heyer before we even hit double digit posts!
Could we perhaps try to stay off Heyer until other authors get discussed?
Why is the Lymond series better/easier to get into than the Niccolo series, Hebes? How should we Dunnettphobes get into them? -
Message 11
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:59 GMT, in reply to silverjenny in message 3
I haven't (yet) read any of the Sr Fidelma novels, but was interested that a group of friends (including three (3) professors of Irish medieval history and others in the same discipline) discussing them was very respectful of the background historical research and setting - rated it far above Umberto eco or Melvyn Bragg (MB was regarded as a very sloppy scholar). They also admitted envy of the royalties they speculated that the author was getting.
I'm always a little wary of historical fiction (particularly that set more than a generation and a half back) is that however good the 'props' and accurate the dating of events, they are really set in the writer's present day - the attitudes and emotions are modern. That said, I enjoy Heyer as romantic romps, and Lindsay Davies Falco novels, and Ellis Peter's Cadfael - and of course, Cadfael and Heyer as images of 1950s England are interesting now in a twice-historical way.
But I think alternative-society books set in another planet/world or in an imagined future at least avoid the clunky anachronism that can kill an histoical novel stone dead for a pedant like me. Horrid memories of a detective story with a medieval setting and a hero in a hood trimmed with grey squirrel fur - that was about page 4, and I didn't get any further. -
Message 12
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:03 GMT, in reply to E. Yore in message 4
Can somone please develop reasons why I should try Dorothy Dunnett again? Tried two novels (King Hereafter and first of the Niccolo series) and was unable to finish either.Â
I think the Lymond series is easiest to get into and "Queen's Play" is probably easiest to start with, even though it is the second of the series. She does write intensely and I found it a good plan to read them quickly, then reread if necessary. But you may not like them at all, so not to worry.
I love Fidelma, but yes, one at a time.
My favourite Lindsey Davis was the one about Vespasian's Mistress. He wasn't a pretty man, but it does give a good description of him. Implacable, but a Good Thing. -
Message 13
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:07 GMT, in reply to dean volecape in message 11
Oh, yes, I agree about the mentality anachronisms - a friend who is a Classicist couldn't get into Lindsey Davis until I explained that it was Raymond Chandler in Ancient Rome! Ellis Peter's mentality/behaviour anachronisms bothered me a lot more, for some reason (partly because at least Lindsey Davis writes humourously, so there are plenty of nods in the readers' direction.). Couldn't get into Steven Saylor at all after, iirc, I read about a freedman marrying a Senator's daughter. It couldn't happen.
Will reread Fidelma then, but only one a year (not all of them in 4 months!) -
Message 14
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:08 GMT, in reply to E. Yore in message 10
for me part of it is because I know the historical context for the Lymond series (or at least for chunks of it) so it's an easier read.
um, and I find Lymond a more attractive character than Niccolo - OK I'll admit he's one of my literary swoon thud characters...... -
Message 15
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:13 GMT, in reply to E. Yore in message 13
Oh - just remembered the series I read all at once (well,did read other books during the same period, but . . .) - all the Patrick O'Brian Aubrey and Maturin books. Loved them, and I would read them in sequence again - over a couple of years. But there are contemporary influences detectable in them, too - the time when feminist lit crit was in the ascendant and in the next book Jack and Stephen end up in a boat with a load of cannibal Lesbians - and later the death of Diana.
But it doesn't reduce the enjoyment.
I do agree though that humour leavens the lump. -
Message 16
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:14 GMT, in reply to dean volecape in message 11
hi Dean,
off topic for a moment re after a splurge on buying several of the omnibus sets all at once they're tucked away and I'm slowly doling out Miles to myself as a treat on holidays and high days (I get to decide when it's a high day). Thank you again for the recommendation. -
Message 17
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:17 GMT, in reply to Hebe in message 16
I'm glad you're enjoying them Hebe - I think I'm about to launch back in for a re-read (though I might read the Curse of Chalion first - quite different, but Cazaril is a strong contender for the title of 'most lovable fictional man'. Not historical but with allusions to medieval Spain). -
Message 18
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:50 GMT, in reply to Rwth of Cornovii in message 1
Returning now, yes Jenny, I have just posted a signpost, by which I returned to this thread.
I was interested in a series of historical novels about a girl who really struggles with working near Redditch. It is definitely social history, red in tooth and claw. The way the gangmasters behaved was pretty similar to the masters of the Chinese Cockle Pickers of Morecambe.
I have enjoyed a long series by Valerie Anand about a man, captured in the massacre at Guildford in 1036, and how his descendants survive and gradually prosper. I did prefer her other series beginning "Gildenford" about Brand, a Saxon adherent to Godwin's troop of "Companions", and how he learns about what is and is not acceptable. It goes up to Perkin Warbeck, but I think she lost interest. I have been trying to find a 2 book series based in Sussex at a pre-conquest period, and progressing through to the present day. It has a stirring sequence of the Ironmaster of West Kent burnt in Lewes for his lack of Protestant fervour.
While combing Amazon for this author I was reminded of a historical Fantasy, based in Napoleonic times by Naomi Novik and featuring an air force of Dragons. Yes, I know, but it is pretty good. "Temeraire" is the first one, and it reads like Anne McCaffrey if Patrick O'Brian had written them.
I have never managed to get into Patrick O'Brian myself, but O/H loves his books.
I have enjoyed some of the Phillippa Gregory books, but the one that I loved best was "Earthly Joys" about William Tradescant, Lord Cecil's Gardener. I think she wrote a sequel about his son called "Lasting Treasures", but I doubt it was as good.
"Portrait of an Unknown Woman" by Vanora Bennett gives an interesting view of Sir Thomas More and his family, and the processes Holbein went through when painting his wonderful portrait of More. I found it illuminating, even if it did get a bit romantic.
I never imagined that anyone could write about Sherlock Holmes, but do try "The Beekeeper's Apprentice" by Laurie R KIng. I came across it as an audiobook with the wonderful Jenny Serling narrating. Not all of the series work well, but I liked this one.
I can't stop here without mentioning Margaret Irwin. Her fictional biographies of the Stuarts are excellent, and her view of Mary Queen of Scots somehow escapes the mawkish, while being sympathetic.
After Colleen McCulloughs Roman series, Conn Iggulden's Rome books are sadly two dimensional for me. After reading "Troy" I am hopelessly in love with Achilles. - and Hector, -
Message 19
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Ruth, the second book about the Tradescants is 'Virgin Earth', enjoyed them both.
Having read C J Sansom's books which start with the dissolution of the monasteries, I have just seen that the Ö÷²¥´óÐã are negotiating to film them, with Branagh as Shardlake. Special effects department are going to be busy. -
Message 20
Posted by politeLadyPortia (U7099336) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Thanks for this news SJ as a C J Sansom/Shardlake fan.
I also enjoy the Candace Robb Owen Archer series set in 12th century York.Fascinating insight into life in York and like CJ Sansom's books murder and mayhem. Tremendous descriptions of the power of the church and also the medieval guilds
For later historical novels relating to the great archaeological discoveries in Egypt the Elizabeth Peters Amelia Peabody novels give an insight into the Victorians and the international rivalries
PLP -
Message 21
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Portia, I love the Peabody books, such a feisty lady. She makes me laughoutloud too.
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Message 22
Posted by Ex Tram Driver (U5244457) on Sunday, 5th April 2009
Signing up as one who enjoys a good historical novel here. I'm also one who has read (and enjoyed) all the Dorothy Dunnett novels - and no, I can't explain why except that I found them as a student in the mid 1970's and have enjoyed them ever since. (I think the reason is that they are well researched and illuminate the period's history).
It is interesting that many of the series listed are themselves historical detective novels, a genre which did not themselves take off until Ellis Peters started the Cadfael series as recently as 1978.
XTD -
Message 23
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:54 GMT, in reply to politeLadyPortia in message 20
Oh dear, I can't stand the Owen Archer books as the errors are glaring; ditto Elizabeth Peters. Like Dean, my inner pedant gets very angry at errors I can spot and ruins the book. I can remember one Cadfael where he talks about the sacrament of marriage celebrated in church - um no, not at that period - marriage was still by and large a civil contract, not an unbreakable link ( that change only happened a generation later, after the divorce of Eleanor of Aquitaine from Louis VII and her remarriage to Henry II.)
Although there are also errors in Lindsey Davis, a period I know so much better, they don't bother me because of the humour, because of her use of anachronism as in item of humour and because, for very many things, the Roman Empire is slightly closer to our mentality than very many other periods of time. -
Message 24
Posted by barefoot choirmistress (Grade 1 listed status at present but soon to be partly demolished. The wrecking ball has started its upward swing, ready to demolish my name) (U2220849) on Monday, 6th April 2009
we are all Bernard Cornwall fans - Sharpe- especially the earlier books, The Anglo Saxon/Alfred ones, Merlin etc
And Ellis Peter's other incarnation Edith Pargetter - the Llewellin serise and the Heaven Tree - haven't read them for ages.
Love Lindsay Davis and Ellis Peters.
bc -
Message 25
Posted by Emma - no relation (U2818673) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Loved Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond novels. Felt the Niccolo ones were a bit of a pale imitation. May have preferred Lymond (a) because swoon thud hero and (b) know more about the period (in an A level history sort of way). Having said that, I did read all the Niccolo ones and there are certain settings and scenes which enthralled me.
I used to reread Lymond frequently and could see more of the pattern and clues each time. I haven't read them for perhaps 10 years and am now frightened to in case they haven't worn well - I loved them so and would hate to lose them. Perhaps the weakened critical state of convalescing would make sure all was well.
ENR -
Message 26
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:43 GMT, in reply to Emma (no relation) in message 25
I have enjoyed the Bernard Knight series about the Crowner in Devon in the Medieval period. He is not all that much of a smarty pants, and has trouble with his family. Good entertainment for an evening.
Some books I read on CD in the car, and the short episodes lend themselves well to many books.
I did love the "Heaven Tree" series by Edith Pargetter, but didn't get to grips so much with the Four books about Llewellyn the Last.
I feel I have a love/hate feeling about Bernard Cornwell. I liked the Heretic series, and bits of the Merlin seriese, but find him a little gratuitously violent. I know War is gratuitously violent, but sometimes one doesn't want to read about the details.
Has anyone any experience of George Shipway? O/H and I nearly came to blows over "Imperial Governor". The issue was whether the commandant of Glevum, (2oth Augusta Legion) was entitled to stay there and not join in with the final battle with Boadicea. The Romans managed without, but Paulinus was decidedly miffed about it. -
Message 27
Posted by JoleBlon (U12091094) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Has anyone read any of the Captain Alatriste books by Arturo Perez-Reverte, or any of his other historical fiction?
I've just borrowed a translation of "The Man in the Yellow Doublet" from the library, and I can see from the potted biography that the author was originally a war correspondent and has written a lot of historical fiction.
Confession: being as shallow as a puddle, my attention was grabbed by the front cover which shows Viggo Mortensen as Captain Alatriste, but the cover blurb also intrigued me. I wonder whether this will be 'Spanish Sharpe'? -
Message 28
Posted by Auntie Molly (was mollygee) (U4008898) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Can somone please develop reasons why I should try Dorothy Dunnett again? Tried two novels (King Hereafter and first of the Niccolo series) and was unable to finish either.Â
I tried to read The Foundling, the first in the Moorland Dynasty series by Cynthia Harrod-Eagles, but couldn't get into it at all - even though I normally like that sort of thing. -
Message 29
Posted by Glorybal-MUSTARDLAND FOREVER (U7278111) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Agree, with you about Francis Crawford of Lymond being in the 'swoon, thud' category and enjoyed the Niccolo rising series.
Has anybody mentioned Jean Plaidy? I dropped History for Chemistry at the end of the 2nd Form and so never got beyond the 100 Years War at school. I did however read almost every Jean Plaidy historial novel during my teens. -
Message 30
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:13 GMT, in reply to GLORYBAL in message 29
Jean Ploddy? I hated her own historical novels. She made no attempt at characterisation and was pretty boring, but writing as Victoria Holt wrote one or two pretty good historical romances.
I like Cynthia Harrod-Eagles, to my surprise, perhaps because her main characters ride a lot of horses, and are good with them. Like a lot of authors, it is sometimes hard to separate out the titles. I'm sure it isn't the intention, but as the successive novels pile up, finding titles when all the good ones have been used up, may be a bit of a problem. -
Message 31
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:34 GMT, in reply to Rwth of Cornovii in message 30
Jean Plaidy and Victoria Holt were the same person????? Good Heavens. -
Message 32
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:40 GMT, in reply to E. Yore in message 31
I thought so, but now I am beginning to wonder. I wonder who Richard Howard is, apart from my brother that is, He wrote some pretty good novels, the first of which "Napoleon's Sons" deals with the scouring of France's prisons to create his cavalry. One, Loussard is a secret aristo, who having seen his family beheaded at the guillotine maintains his cover and goes to war for Napoleon. Intriguing. Maybe it was Richard Holmes, the Military Historian, but he is reputed to be a well known novelist. -
Message 33
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Has anyone read Ken Follett's 'Pillars of the Earth' and its sequel 'World withot End',about the building of a cathedral, and the life of the priory and town in 12/13C. I am aware that a little learning is a dangerous thing but I did manage to follow the architectural details quite well. Bit daunted when I saw the size of the volumes but I really could not put them down. The heroine in the second book got a bit tiresome because she was so good at doing whatever she did!
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Message 34
Posted by smee (U2226513) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:51 GMT, in reply to Rwth of Cornovii in message 26
Tried one of Bernard Cornwell's recently (Vagabond, I think) and while I've no doubt he's got the historical facts right (more than his job's worth not to!) the details of casual torture and violence was a bit much. Some stuff I'd rather not know but then I don't want and author glossing over the harshness of the time either. Tricky. -
Message 35
Posted by Katy Tulip (U2239809) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:57 GMT, in reply to E. Yore in message 31
Jean Plaidy and Victoria Holt were the same person?????Â
Yup, she also wrote as Philippa Carr (and several others too).
I'm reading Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy, just nearing the end of the first one The Chrystal Cave, but does that count for this thread, as it's more lengend/myth than history?
I really liked Margeret Campbell Barnes in "Mylady of Cleves", and "Brief Gaudy Hour" (about Anne Boleyn). Her novel about Charles the I in captivity ("Mary Of Carisbrooke") less so.
Katy -
Message 36
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:11 GMT, in reply to Katy Tulip in message 35
Katy, you are me and I claim my £5. I think it counts because there were several candidates for Arthur and Merlin.
I liked Victor Canning's version of the Arthur stories, but as you say, the Mary Stewart Merlin trilogy is very good. One also needs to read "The Once and Future King" to balance it out.
Scanning Amazon for authors, I particularly liked Norah Lofts' books especially the one about Eleanor of Aquitaine.
I forced myself to read Daphne Du Maurier's 'autobiography' "The Glass Blowers" which was a lot better than I expected, but then, some of the best books are a struggle to read. I took "The Three Musketeers " to France with me to read on the basis of having nothing else available. I have always been glad that I did. -
Message 37
Posted by PinaGrigio (U11141735) on Monday, 6th April 2009
I love historical novels but prefer the ones about real people. So, as there's been no mention of her to date, Sharon Penman's books are great. I find she does a great job of filling in the human aspects to royal historical characters' motives (eg Richard 3rd, Edward 4th). She also always gives you a summary at the end of the book which explains what events wre true and if she has imagined any scenes, which I find helpful.
also loved Jean Plaidy/Victoria Holt as a teenager, plus Margaret Irwin, Norah Lofts and a Hilda someone (gosh, memory's going) who wrote a v sympathetic set of books about Mary I.
And 'Katherine' is a classic. One of my faves.
I don't go a huge bundle on the historical mystery/crime books, but do enjoy the Shardlake books. Thanks for the tip on the series, SJ, just a shame it's going to be Branagh again, after the Wallander series! -
Message 38
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 6th April 2009
Not sure it is a done deal, pina so I suppose he ocudl turn it down. How is he at horse riding?
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Message 39
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Tuesday, 7th April 2009
Rwth, thank you for taking on the Book Club this month. I've been without a computer for several weeks, and having to make do with the occasional use of the library facilities.
Anya Seton's "Katherine" was one of the first "grown-up" books I read and I loved it. Seton wrote quite a few other historical novels/creative biographies, but the only other one I really enjoyed was "The Winthrop Woman", about an influential Puritan family in 17th Century Massachusetts.
"Mist Over Pendle", by Robert Neill, is another old favourte. While the main character, the spirited young Margery Whittaker, is fictional, the story of the witches of Pendle are based on documents on their trial. The book is entertaining as well as slightly chilling and, cleverly, the author plants a tiny doubt in one's mind about whether the "witches" really did have special powers.
I agree with what others have said about Dorothy Dunnett - her Lymond Chronicles were much more enjoyable than the Niccolo series, and Francis Crawford is definitely swoonworthy.
Rusty -
Message 40
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Rusters, thank you for reminding me of 'Mist over Pendle'. a well written book I have read two or three times. Interesting that there have been several mentions of Anya Seton's 'Katherine', one of my early historical reads. Anyone read Ainsworth's 'Windsor Castle', I remember being suitably frightened but it was I was still at school and I was easily spooked.
I also remember sitting up all night reading Goudge's 'Green Dolphin Country' because I had to find out what happened! -
Message 41
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:15 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 39
My love for Dorothy is fairly complete. I read all the books every year. I am now past swooning over Francis Crawford, and just feel sorry for him. It is a spiteful thing to leave him ignorant of his real identity, and while it doesn't ruin his life, he does have to jump through hoops to get it organised. Like the rest of us of course, but much more so. It is hard to remember that in 1558, at the end of the saga, he is still only 32.
Niccolo, his forerunner, is possibly a more interesting character. The family that doesn't want to acknowledge him isn't worth a tenth of him, and eventually, the last and virulently hostile, is forced to realise it. Though it is implicit that he has framed a lot of his actions on that basis.
I have also enjoyed some of Anya Seton's other books, and found them all to have a lot to commend them. My favourite of her American history series was the "Hearth and Eagle". I wish I could like "Dragonwyk", though "Green Darkness" was a lot better. I suspect that the reason "Katherine" holds our affection is not just her, but the portrait of Chaucer whether or not it is entirely accurate, it seems to ring true.
Do we like "Lady of Hay" by Barbara Erskine? I did, but some of her later ones did not work so well with the timeslip device. While individually, the books are very good, especially "Kingdom of Shadows" about the Lady in the Cage, Isobel Buchan, I sometimes wish she had just stuck to the main story, of the historical character, and used a different storytelling device. It defies credibility that so many beautiful young women can be chained to the past like that, does it not? -
Message 42
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Rwth - can you please give the name of the books re. Redditch that you mentioned earlier. I have a feeling my mother read them and I can't remember the author.
I used to read lots of historical novels when young but seem to have got out of the habit. I loved "The King's Grey Mare" by Rosemary Hawley Jarman when I was a teenager. Wonder how authentic that was and I also adored Margaret Irwin's book "The Stranger Prince" about Rupert of the Rhine (or Prince Rupert as we usually call him). I also read my share of Georgette Heyer and have indeed read one recently which was fun but formulaic.
I seem to have lost the mind-set after reading a few stinkers. Not quite sure where to get going again. Any suggestions? I like authenticity and strong atmosphere.
I hated Cadfael - couldn't even read it for fun. So many anachronisms even for an uneducated type like me. -
Message 43
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Rwth, I did enjoy 'Lady of Hay' but having read some of Erskine's others, I got very bored with the timeslip device, perhaps it was because it was no longer a surprise.
Can I should mention Diana Gabaldon's 'Outlander' series? I enjoy them because they are page turners and Jamie is one helluva guy!. My knowledge of the period - Jacobite rebellion and the aftermath - is slight so I don't know how good the historical background is.
Lynnie, is there any particular period which you like? -
Message 44
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Victorian and Medieval I think. I am totally allergic to the Tudors. I quite like 17th century but know so little about the 18th that I feel a bit out of my depth there, if you know what I mean.
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Message 45
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Robert Neill wrote a few other books set in the same area around the same period. They were quite good but lacked the charm of Mist Over Pendle (and Roger Newell and his niece Margery).
I enjoyed Barbara Erskine's Lady of Hay, but not so much her others. I sometimes wonder whether authors are pressured by their publishers to write more books, or produce them more quickly, than they otherwise would. That might account for Seton's Dragonwyck, which I agree was pretty awful.
I loved Daphne du Maurier's Frenchman's Creek; don't remember reading any other historical novel by her (haven't read Jamaica Inn, for instance).
Rose Tremain is one of my favourite writers and I particularly enjoyed Restoration and Music and Silence, which I think are her only historical novels.
Do Colette's novels count? I read somewhere that Cheri is being dramatised for television (Ö÷²¥´óÐã?) but that was a few months back, and I've heard nothing more about it. Cutbacks biting maybe.
Rusty -
Message 46
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:16 GMT, in reply to silverjenny in message 43
Silverjenny, my current audiobook is Outlander - right at the front of my mind as I'm just back from a walk where I listened to another hour of it. I was wondering if I could mention it here and how accurate the detail is. I'm hooked by the way, the book must be a page turner, as I'm listening to it at every opportunity when I would normally have the radio or tv on.
Jamie is another swoon thud hero. I'm beginning to see a theme to my historical novel reading..... -
Message 47
Posted by Deb Z (U2256349) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
<>
Rusty, I have seen a poster over here for a film of Chéri - with Michelle Pfeiffer, Kathy Bates and Rupert Friend.
I read lots of Jean Plaidy historical novels when a teenager, but am sure I could not read them now!
Deb -
Message 48
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Oh, thanks Deb. I probably misremembered and it was the *film* Cheri I was thinking of. Good cast, must see it.
Rusty -
Message 49
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
Hebe, that's two of drummed out of the historical book club. Guess we have to share Jamie!
-
Message 50
Posted by barefoot choirmistress (Grade 1 listed status at present but soon to be partly demolished. The wrecking ball has started its upward swing, ready to demolish my name) (U2220849) on Wednesday, 8th April 2009
has anyone read the ancient greek novels of Mary Renault? Used to love them when I was young but they'd slipped out of my consiousness
bc
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