Messageboard
The Village Hall permalink
Bipolar
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Â
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Tuesday, 12th May 2009
How many of us have bipolar? Bipolar disorder or bipolar spectrum (cyclothymia)?
I'm not asking anyone to out themselves that isn't already open about it.
I'm pretty sure that since I came here at least three people have said that they are, but I'm just curious.
I have bipolar disorder. Mania, depression, psychosis, the works. -
Message 2
Posted by TheCatLives! (U12285993) on Tuesday, 12th May 2009
hi Sunny,
I have bipolar, which thankfully is kept under control by sodium valproate, taken twice daily. This drug has been a life-saver and life-enhancer in my case.
When I had my last breakdown (which was when I FINALLY accepted the fact that I needed proper treatment) I was suicidally depressed and psychotic. Several years before, when my mum died, I became manic.
I am sorry to hear that you are also a sufferer. Does medication help you?
Take care of yourself. -
Message 3
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Tuesday, 12th May 2009
Yes, I'm also on medication, and I find that it helps a lot.
-
Message 4
Posted by TheCatLives! (U12285993) on Wednesday, 13th May 2009
I hope that it will continue to help you, Sunny, as it has me.
I am going through a stressful time at the moment, and I live with the fear that those awful symptoms may re-occur. but, thankfully, touch wood, whatever, they are held firmly in place.
There is so much stigma around mental illness, still. I blame this for preventing me from getting proper treatment before whcih sadly meant that my family had to suffer along with me.
It's good to talk about this, thank you for starting the thread. I hope others will contribute. -
Message 5
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) on Wednesday, 13th May 2009
I don't have bipolar disorder. I just wonder how many people I have known have been bipolar but have been undiagnosed. I am thinking of a friend with whom I have sadly lost contact who had violent mood swings and was sometimes just curled up inside herself and thought that the world was against her. When she was up she was impossible but when she was down she was unreachable. I suspect her behaviour was even more extreme when she was alone. We were too young to know what to do...we did our best...but she is still on my conscience. Her lifestyle became increasingly bizarre and it was too much for our young crowd to cope with. I do hope that eventually she got the help she needed. [This was all in the 1960s/early 70s btw].
-
Message 6
Posted by TheCatLives! (U12285993) on Wednesday, 13th May 2009
Your friend sounds like me when I was young!!!! It's quite possible that, if she was a teenager, she may have been suffering from overactive hormones (don't want to trivialise her suffering; just offering an alternative explanation) and could well be perfectly fine now. If she did/does have bipolar, then I hope that she has sought out appropriate treatment.
I was very badly treated by a family member after being discharged from hospital following a major depressive episode. I was told that I had no reason to be depressed, should count my blessings, pull myself up by the bootstraps etc., etc. It was also inferred that I was a drain on the NHS, by taking resources away from people who were 'genuinely' ill, with heart problems and cancer.
Sadly, I feel that ignorance and stigma surrounding mental illness will be with us for some time; but the people who have the most scathing attitudes towards it are usually those who fear it the most. -
Message 7
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Wednesday, 13th May 2009
I do think it is important for anyone with mood swings that interfere with their daily life to get a medical opinion. There are several conditions that can cause mood swings, including bipolar disorder, cyclothymia, borderline personality disorder, hypothyroidism, female hormonal problems and schizoaffective disorder. A differential diagnosis helps with treatment and/or lifestyle changes.
As for ignorance and stigma, I find that it can come from the most unexpected quarters. I find myself unable to predict who will be positive and who will be negative when it comes to attitudes towards people with severe mental illness. -
Message 8
Posted by winstonsaunt (U13350135) on Wednesday, 20th May 2009
Hello Sunny, You probably know I'm bipolar. I also have OCD and a touch of tourettes (not major, tic like grimaces and neck jerks etc). I take lamotrigine as a stabiliser which I find goos and an antipressant which I have to keep an eye on as it can make bipolars high as you probably know. I am now trying a tiny amount of quetiapine to see if it helps with the facial tics. I was anorexic for quite a while so I sometimes wonder just where did I go wrong!
-
Message 9
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Wednesday, 20th May 2009
Hi Winston's Aunt. I have a cocktail of meds, too. I daren't take antidepressants any more because they send me too manic.
I have some OCD traits, and used also to have OCPD which I've largely grown out of. (I know personality disorders often fade with age, but it came as almost a surprise to see how much I'd changed.) I get rather freaked over germs and am grateful for the invention of alcohol hand gel although having discovered that it's not very effective on norovirus, I still get anxious when I'm out.
Well done for getting the anorexia under control - that's supposed to be really difficult. -
Message 10
Posted by Fourteenbore (U2227836) on Thursday, 21st May 2009
OH is Bipolar, stabilized by Lithium. Went through interesting times when I first met her, and she went through a difficult spell of depression and then manic behaviour.
As for the "Pull yourself together", and "NHS resources should be spent on real illness" brigade, either they have never seen anyone suffering from mental illness, or have never bothered to find out the facts. Dangerous idiots for spreading such tosh. -
Message 11
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Thursday, 21st May 2009
A high proportion of marriages where one party is bipolar end in divorce, so your OH is fortunate to have found a partner who has stuck by her.
I no longer have a partner, but for different reasons. Since my last partner left me (when I wasn't very ill), I've not formed any romantic relationships. It can be a lonely journey at times.
I agree about what you say about "pull yourself together" attitudes. I struggle to explain to people the difference between laziness/sadness and depression, and to explain that mania is a problem. As for psychosis, it's one of the ultimate taboos. How many people ever put their hands up to experiencing it? I'm often at a loss as to how to explain to people that just because part of my brain doesn't always work properly doesn't mean that none of it does. -
Message 12
Posted by Fourteenbore (U2227836) on Thursday, 21st May 2009
One of the problems I found was that the English language doesn't have the words to cover a lot of mental health issues. "Depression" to a lot of people just means feeling a bit down for a day, and if you say, "well actually I mean endogenous depression", they are hardly likely to go and look it up. Likewise "mania" is construed very differently to the reality of having a brain that is racing so fast that the body can't keep up with it, and sleep becomes unnecessary, (bit hard on your partner at the time though, depression is easier in some ways). Got to go and mash some spuds now, may rejoin the thread later.
-
Message 13
Posted by bulekingfisher (U8365651) on Saturday, 23rd May 2009
Hello Sunny Cloud
Would you like to join my commuinty the 3 W's (Wheelchair's and Wobbley Walker's we have Chalat's near the Village Hall I call my thread The Persicant One's it is for all impaired people we are all people we might not fit in to the narrow stereo band of normalaty (what ever that eliet group of fool's are !) -
Message 14
Posted by bulekingfisher (U8365651) on Saturday, 23rd May 2009
Hello pizzaroux
I have just read your post and would like to invite to join a commuinty of impaired people living in Challet's/eco friendly homes ajoinning the Village Hall I call the commuinty the 3 W's/ Wheelchairs and Wobbly Walkers the thread is cakked The Persitance One's -
Message 15
Posted by superjan3 (U6523409) on Saturday, 23rd May 2009
Hi everyone,
I was diagnosed as bipolar in 2002, after several manic episodes over the years, it took a suicide attempt and a stay in hospital before. I didn't accept the diagnosis at first and fought against it, but eventually came to accept it, and I think that acceptance was half the battle.
I've had relapses, usually when I've come off the lithium and anti-psychotics due to side effects ( weight gain, shaking and hand tremours and dizziness to name but a few).
I've been out of hospital for nearly two years now, I had one short period of work but had to stop as symptoms returned. I now do some voluntary work and courses, and seem reasonably stable at the moment.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I feel better than I did, but there's still that fear of relapsing again, and that fear is stopping me moving further forward.
Kind regards,
SJ -
Message 16
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Saturday, 23rd May 2009
Hello Superjan. Yes, it's difficult to move forward with worry about relapses. I hate rebuilding my life and then seeing it all fall apart again over and over, but mostly I keep fighting through it. When I despair of the future, my friends, online and off, keep me going, reminding me that there is always the possibility of improvement.
-
Message 17
Posted by superjan3 (U6523409) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
bumping for planetzig
j -
Message 18
Posted by planetzig (U7531074) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
Bump to keep
-
Message 19
Posted by Fourteenbore (U2227836) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
OH is in hospital now, having suffered a bad relapse, possibly triggered by a recent stressful time. Looks as if it is going to be some time before she can be restabilized. Even with the medication they are giving, she still is hardly sleeping, and has the urge to wander about all night.
She had tended to hide her condition before we met, but after discussion we agreed to be open about it, as the more people that see how sufferers cope with their condition, the more we can hope that society as a whole will become more understanding. -
Message 20
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:04 GMT, in reply to Sunny Clouds in message 1
Just found this... I don't have bipolar disorder but I thought some people may be interested in a tv programme which is available on Channel 4's "4od" on-demand service, their version of iPlayer - if you go to the 4od site and put in "my dream farm" it was a 6-parter with Monty Don helping people who wanted to start a life in the country, and one of them, Ep.5, is about a couple with the man having bipolar disorder. Monty Don has been very open about his own clinical depression and I felt, watching it, that here was someone who was both sympathetic and understanding of the issues around bipolar disorder but also realistic and practical about how that would work with plans to start a small-holding. He talked very openly to the man about this, and stressed that the man's health had to be considered - the approach was very much that the couple's plans and what Monty might suggest must make sure that the man was not overloaded with unrealistic expectations, NOT because the man was to be pitied or because the man was just not competent, but because the man's health might suffer and what Monty felt was most important was that the man and woman and their children could live the life they wanted to live as best they could.
It seemed to me to be a major challenge to the stereotypes around too often. It was an approach that I found really different. Much as the challenges of farming might be approached if one of the couple had a leg amputated or had epileptic seizures or an allergy to hay or farm animals. A simple, practical and sympathetic approach with the well-being of the family at its heart.
Just wanted to let you know - you may all have seen it when it was on tv.
Take care, all
laura -
Message 21
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
On the website for Monty Don's programme (as described by Laura) I searched for Episode 5 and it found it.
-
Message 22
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
-
Message 23
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
I started watching the ch4 prog but there was a problem with my connection and it seized up. I felt sorry for the couple, as the chap with bipolar was having trouble following a plan. He had just demolished his kitchen!Did they manage to get any of those lovely Dexter cattle? Did he finally put the pigs in the overgrown ditch?
I think I said on the mental health thread that I am Bipolar. Also arthritic, thanks to drunk driver. When I was "treated" with lithium I became prone to ME(possibly due to all the surgery I have had) and gave up teaching as that was the final straw.
My last breakdown was life-threatening.
I used to receive the MDF magagazine, but didn't want to be kept reminded of my illness, and the back to work ethos (there was an article every month called "working matters") didn't apply to me.(When I cancelled my subscription they wrote to me, saying that as I had obviously got "better" could I please send them a donation!! I never wrote back, I could have said that I was sick of them always assuming we all needed to "Go back to work" and that I do not feel that i can, ever, go back to work. It is not a lack of confidence, but a dose of reality, as I get very bad when psychotic).
Like Sunny Clouds says, there is a lot of propaganda against us - I have built a life that "works" for me and that does not involve paid work - I worry about having benefits taken away, and then having a less healthy lifestyle and becoming psychotic again.
As I don't like having anyone live with me, I have two pet cats, raised from kittens. I find going to the gym/yoga classes very therapeutic too, and it helps keep me mobile. My experience of being crippled and housebound in the past, increased the depth of depression, especially as I was very athletic before the accident.
If anyone can tell me how the ch4 prog worked out I would be grateful, as it would save me going through it again. I did wonder why the couple were having children, if the condition is inherited. I most definitely would not have them, as it would be inadvisable. -
Message 24
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Tuesday, 24th August 2010
Rose ... there is a précis of the programme and a follow up here .... it was on the left hand side of the website ... I hope it answers your queries.
Westie :0)
MONDAY 15 FEBRUARY 2010
Nick and Talitha Bailey-Brain live near Usk in South Wales with their 2-year-old daughter Emily. Three years ago they impulsively bought two fields, where they one day plan to live and lead a smallholding life.
Talitha grew up on a smallholding in Zimbabwe and yearns to recreate a little of her African past. Nick was a driver in the RAF before being medically discharged, and now - more passionate about trucks than tractors - his dream is to build a large barn in which to house his collection of flat-beds and diggers.
So far, the couple has done nothing with their land even though they have been funding its massive mortgage, so they call on Monty Don to give them direction. But sadly Nick's enthusiasm and big ideas mask a serious mental health issue. With their lack of experience and no financial safety net, can Monty help the couple achieve their farming dream without Nick's health deteriorating?
An update from Nick and Tee at Cwmbach Farm
After our last day of filming, on November 5th, we had a lovely get together with all the people we had met last year. It was a great chilled out BBQ with like minded people - we all have a lot in common and find we can all help each other with different aspects of farming.
When we were first approached to take part in My Dream Farm we thought it would help us progress quicker. However, in reality it is back to 'plan A' - finishing more of the infrastructure of the farm, whilst also completing our extension on our current house, before we take on any more animals responsibilities and work load.
The cows have settled in well and so far are no hassle. The pigs are doing well and we are looking to expand our herd.
In May/June this year we hope to sell our house and move to the farm. Having made this move we would like to put a lot more time into the farm and still hope to open a small farm shop to market our home grown food. This would complete the dream.
Cheers Nick, Talitha, Emily and soon to be baby Isaac.
Related links
As explained in the programme, Nick has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, previously known as manic depression. For more information about this mental health problem, please visit the NHS Choices website.
COMMENTS (6) -
Message 25
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Tuesday, 24th August 2010
I did wonder why the couple were having children, if the condition is inherited. I most definitely would not have them, as it would be inadvisable.Â
It's not quite straightforward for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's not a single-gene disorder, so you wouldn't just have to inherit a particular gene, you'd have to inherit a combination of genes, so it's not a simple case of bipolar parent -> bipolar baby.
Secondly, there's a curiosity with bipolar in that close relatives of people with bipolar are often more gifted than other people. There is a theory that this is one of the reasons why bipolar disorder hasn't died out over the centuries - it confers an advantage on a significant proportion of offspring.
When I'm feeling more enthusiastic I'll see if I can find some good research papers on this.
Of course, research into the genetics of bipolar disorder is ongoing. -
Message 26
Posted by Michael Alexander Kearsley (U1675895) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
I was arguing with a relative of mine, months ago now, on a social networking site, a relative who invited me onto the site, they had been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder and relatively mild Aspergers Syndrome, although another relative reckoned that actually they had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - they had fallen through a garage roof while trimming a hedge and severed an artery and thought they were going to bleed to death while a teenager, had been through University.
They since joining this social networking site were suggesting that they might be bipolar and I was pointing out that lots of people, millions of people have mood swings, and it is important to note that mood variation is not the same as mood swings, that mood variations are not abnormal, that people who don't have mood variations certainly are abnormal and that there were a variety of causes of mood swings.
They are currently in a psychiatric hospital because they apparently had suicidal tendencies and their netbook has been confiscated and they have been compulsorily sectioned under the mental health act, which they are very annoyed about, but then again they had been demanding treatment and then refusing treatment and seemingly had thought they could go on playing online games in hospital. -
Message 27
Posted by Michael Alexander Kearsley (U1675895) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
They weren't diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, moody, but of course lots of people are moody.
People on their "Friends List" were sending me messages to contact the relatives mother, I was thinking who are these people, why are they contacting me, is this some attempt at identity fraud. -
Message 28
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Hi Sunny Clouds,
there is a book by Kay Redfield Jamieson "Touched with Fire" on the artistic talents of bipolars such as Byron, Virginia Woolf.
I think it helped if you had a wealthy background - so many geniuses are from the upper echelons. Treatment could be sought and paid for. Those bipolars in the workhouse could not have made a name for themselves, or even had the chance to develop any latent talent.
I am bipolar, and artistically talented.
I personally wouldn't have children - I wouldn't want to trigger a breakdown; I wouldn't be capable and I couldn't ensure the child's safety. Mothers who kill are often bipolar. It also wouldn't be fair on a partner to expect them to do all/most of the childrearing.
I did partake in some genetic research. But I didn't fit the "bill" and after a phone interview was not called for a brain scan.
The interviewer wanted to know things such as, was I solitary/ unpopular as a child? Did I have difficulties at school? Are any of my relatives bipolar? I said no to all the above, I did very well at school and was very popular, and explained that all my problems began after I was dragged up a road by a drunk driver at 18 and left for dead. Not just that but years of surgery, and problems with my parents treating me like a five year old, due to the accident, every time I came home from university.
(I truly believe that if I hadn't had the accident I could have carried on the long distance running I had been doing throughout my teens and that enabled me to cope with all manner of stress. When I feel frustrated now, I am still aware how much a five mile run could instantly dissolve the stress, although being arthritic as a result of the RTA means walking five miles is out of the question!)
So therefore research may be skewed. The samples may be restricted to those persons who fit the particulars the researchers are looking for - difficulties in childhood, bipolar relatives - ie those who support the hypothesis that bipolar disorder is genetic. And those like myself, who suffered a truly dreadful trauma are discounted...or viewed as anomalies.
Having a degree in psychology and having taught it, one becomes aware that once you know how a particular piece of research was conducted you find there are shortcomings which may call into question the conclusions reached.
Another problem is diagnosis, as with the other recent message. (Personality Disorders being especially difficult to differentiate from one another).
Dorothy Rowe, an Australian therapist and writer, argues that Psychiatrists and nursing staff do not wish to get to know their patients because it would call their theories into question as they would then have to view every patient as an individual case, rather than as a set of symptoms which fit into a particular box. (Of course, lack of contact time can also be due to lack of resources in the NHS, and MH being the Cinderella).
It is quite possible I could have PTSD as well, but when I tried to discuss my accident with my then psychiatrist, he just dismissed it out of hand without even asking me the first thing about it. He said, "Your accident is nothing to do with your mental health." Maybe he assumed I meant something comparatively minor like a bump on the head or a sprained ankle. Btw I was badly concussed as well, and would be v interested in research on concussion and bipolar (There is something called I think, frontal lobe disinhibition which can cause impulsive behaviour after a head injury but I've never heard a doctor mention it). -
Message 29
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Mothers who kill are often bipolar.Â
I am not at all happy with that statement, which I believe to be untrue. People with severe mental illness are no more likely than anyone else to be violent.
MAK - BPD and bipolar spectrum disorders can be difficult to differentiate, especially BPD and cyclothymia. Probably the most distinctive difference is attachment problems in BPD, although that's far from the whole picture. It's also possible to have both a bipolar spectrum disorder and BPD.
I hope that your relative is helped by their stay in hospital. -
Message 30
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Sorry, my comment on BPD and bipolar spectrum disorders was repeating what had already been said. I was too busy seeing red at the suggestion that mothers who kill are often bipolar to read the rest of what the previous message said. It's not often people with bipolar disorder perpetuate this sort of prejudiced nonsense.
-
Message 31
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Rose, just checking you saw my post in Message 24.
-
Message 32
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
Yes I did see msg 24 thank you for the info.
Sorry to have upset you Sunny.
I don't know what the stats are. I do know that MH sufferers are less violent than others.
I saw a tv prog once about a lady let out of hosp, who needed more help which she didn't get, and her husband was at work. She drowned her children because she was deluded that the world was too evil to bring them up in. I don't know what happened to her. It was a dreadful tragedy. And that poor woman has to live with that for the rest of her life.
There are occasionally others like this in the news, but they aren't dwelt on, thankfully - as they are not cases of intentional child cruelty. -
Message 33
Posted by Michael Alexander Kearsley (U1675895) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
A lot of the women killing children is shortly after giving birth, also things such as women who have lost children walking off with babies, so far as I gather the vast majority of these people are people who at other times have no more health issues generally than the population in general, but who evidently whose hormones are messed up during pregnancy.
-
Message 34
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
About.com:bipolar disorder on Post-partum psychosis - sadly, 300 infants killed in US each year by mothers suffering from this. Post partum psychosis strongly related to bipolar spectrum.
All very sad. There are a number of sites about this.
A friend declined having children due to her husband's condition; I paid to be sterilised for same reason. -
Message 35
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
Over 10,000 babies are born every day in the USA, more particularly 3,889,805 a year. 300 a year is less than one in ten thousand, but bipolar disorder accounts for around 1.5% of the population. I don't think the figures stack up to the infanticide rates for bipolar women being disproportionately high.
Also, you don't have to have bipolar disorder to have postpartum psychosis. -
Message 36
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Friday, 27th August 2010
I'm sure we can at least agree that prevention of Post partum psychosis is THE most important thing here.
Please, everyone, GOOGLE "POST PARTUM PSYCHOSIS" and find out more.
If there is any family or individual mental health history, a woman considering motherhood needs to be fully aware of the risks. Then she can discuss and prepare a treatment plan with a perinatal psychiatrist. This may be crucial for preventing, recognising, and treating the illness.
A feed on the APP Network includes an article by Clare Dolman which originally appeared in Pendulum magazine (bipolar MDF organisation)which discusses the issues involved, and how she dealt with her own experience of childbirth and Post partum psychosis. For eg, she addresses the question of what a bipolar woman should do about medication during pregnancy.
Craddock and Jones(2001)found that between 25% and 50% of deliveries to bipolar mothers result in postnatal psychosis.
Child birth can also be a trigger for first time episodes of mental illness: for 25% of women with bipolar disorder the condition began with a post-partum episode(Sharma and Mazmanien)
Post partum psychosis is very serious; it is a medical emergency. It can be treated but symptoms need to be recognised for that to happen.
To ignore post partum psychosis because we are afraid of stigma, means it may go unrecognised and untreated and for some infants and/or mothers prove fatal. Please read about it. -
Message 37
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Friday, 27th August 2010
Rose .... I know that it is serious. My dear sis in law had a terrible time. She thought people were out to kill her and tried to throw herself out of the bedroom window when my father took a cup of tea. She loved my father like her own and he loved her like his daughter.
-
Message 38
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 27th August 2010
To ignore post partum psychosis because we are afraid of stigma,Â
It's not a question of ignoring it, it's a question of not going along with the notion that mothers with PPP are particularly likely to kill their babies. A few mothers with it kill their babies, a few mothers without it kill their babies, neither are likely to kill their babies.
I cannot believe that TVH has been used as a platform to peddle such out of date stereotypes of women with postpartum psychosis.
Psychosis is not something that predisposes people to violence and it is not something that predisposes them to murder.
Mother and baby psychiatric units provide places where women with postpartum psychosis can stay with their babies in complete safety.
Psychosis is something that approximately 4 - 5% of the population experiences. That's one in twenty of the people you know. One in twenty of the mothers you know.
I appreciate that postpartum psychosis is distressing and needs appropriate treatment, but it doesn't mean that mothers with it are any more likely than other mothers to kill their babies. -
Message 39
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 27th August 2010
I know that there is a high incidence of postpartum psychosis among bipolar women, but it's not unique to women with bipolar disorder.
But there you go, I start a thread to see if anyone has bipolar besides myself and someone joins in to tell us that bipolar women are likely to kill their babies. That's the sort of prejudice and misinformation that follows bipolar people around. -
Message 40
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Friday, 27th August 2010
Oh that's terrible westie-westsussexbird. I'm sorry to hear that, I hope she is okay now.
Have you seen "Shameless"? One character had post-natal mania and saw her husband as a vampire and had screaming fits every time he approached her. I actually thought it was very well portrayed (much better than the portrayal of bipolar disorder in Eastenders I thought), although I know Shameless is not everyone's cup of tea. The girl's relatives decided they'd tell everyone she was in jail/on remand rather than admit she was in a psychiatric unit. (I like the black humour in Shameless).
I just looked up Craddock N and JonesI 2001, "Bipolar disorder and childbirth: the importance of recognising risk"
It is a very good article, discussing strategies to prevent maternal deaths. It raises a number of issues. They say that bipolar sufferers have hundreds of times the risk of PPP than a non sufferer. Regular health professionals may not have enough awareness of the condition. Women who have been stable for some time may not realise it could happen to them.
And of course, access to a perinatal psychiatrist is one of those post code lottery health care issues. A mother and child who triggered the article would still be alive if they had lived in a neighbouring borough. I suspected that post code lotteries might rear their ugly heads here. I have a nasty feeling that perinatal psychiatrists are pretty thin on the ground where I live - getting to see a regular psychiatrist is difficult enough when you need one. -
Message 41
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Friday, 27th August 2010
Sis in law is fine now thanks Rose.
No, I've not seen Shameless, and not sure I want to! -
Message 42
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 27th August 2010
Craddock and Jones are one-track bipolar people with a strong interest in bipolar genetics and ever extending the concept of the bipolar spectrum to include just about any sort of mood swing be it cyclothymic or Borderline. It rather skews everything they publish.
-
Message 43
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Friday, 27th August 2010
Craddock and Jones conclude in their 2001 article,
"David Emson, in the obituary he wrote for his wife, expressed the hope that the independent enquiry would enable Daksha, even in death, to have a positive impact on the care and treatment of other mothers with bipolar illness. It is our hope that a lasting legacy of the tragic death of Dr Emson and her daughter Freya, will be major improvements in the management of women with bipolar disorder through childbirth, a wonderful, but for these women, a dangerous time."
I'm just asking people to look it up for themselves, not propagating misinformation at all. I'm not saying PPP is unique to bipolar women.
I have already apologised for any upset my initial comment on the matter may have caused. I think health issues are very important, and that childrearing is the most life changing and important thing anyone can do. -
Message 44
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 27th August 2010
Yes, you apologised, then you went on to go on about it more. If I could find an excuse to catpee my OP so as to disassociate my request to find out who else has bipolar from your obsession with bipolar mothers killing their babies, I would. I find it awful that I can open a thread with a frank admission of what I experience and get a response like this. You're not talking about what you experience, because you've said you're not a mother, you're dumping prejudice onto an attempt to contact others with similar experiences. I never thought I'd get this sort of response in TVH. You live and learn.
-
Message 45
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Friday, 3rd September 2010
Not prejudice, but rather like wearing a seatbelt in a car, precautionary measures need to be taken in certain situations - because the effect of a car crash could be dire without a seatbelt.
Stigma is overcome by the vast amount of compassion out there, people are willing to help no matter what your life choices.
It's not worth any one of us taking chances with our health when there is help available. My GP who is a mother, says that child rearing itself can bring on illness too, for those of us who are bipolar. It is one of the most important issues for us bp women.
Please look up the Pendulum article if you think this issue could apply to you Sunny CLouds now or in the future. I think this issue must have struck a personal chord and I didn't mean to do that at all. I will shut up and go away now, but I don't doubt the evidence of all the experts in this particular area, even if you do. -
Message 46
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Friday, 3rd September 2010
Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:45 GMT, in reply to Rose Madder in message 36
Rose Madder, my friend had PPP after her child was born, she stayed in a secure mother and baby unit for a while and had support when she was discharged.
She's a very good mother. -
Message 47
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 3rd September 2010
I know a lot of bipolar mothers. I don't know any of them that's hurt their child.
-
Message 48
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 3rd September 2010
I don't doubt the evidence of all the experts in this particular area, even if you doÂ
Except that it isn't the evidence of /all/ the experts in this area, is it? But then I assume you've searched Cochrane and PubMed and found that out for yourself.
Some women with bipolar disorder get PPP. Some don't. Some women without bipolar disorder get PPP. Some don't. It's not a condition exclusive to people with bipolar disorder and not having it isn't exclusive to not having bipolar disorder.
Further, given that some women with bipolar disorder get PPP, they are at an advantage over others, because they are already in the system and receiving treatment, as are those with other psychotic disorders who may get PPP.
By contrast, the 50% or so of women with PPP with no previous hospital contact don't have that advantage. -
Message 49
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Friday, 3rd September 2010
Please hear me out - I have never said that bipolar women are bad mothers, or that they love their children any less - just that there is a strong risk of PPP and for some persons the consequences are, sadly, very tragic.
I sincerely regret the manner in which I phrased this issue to begin with, as my understanding of the situation has moved on. My internet researches show that it is possible to have a plan of action and support ready beforehand in case this PPP does happen, and if it doesn't there's still nothing lost by being prepared.
I have softened my opinion, and I just hoped that others would realise (if they looked it up) that some mothers do not have such a positive outcome and that it is a tragedy not just for them, but also for their partners, their wider family and friends, and for the whole community (and the perception of persons with MI).
Btw the fact I am not a mother is not relevant. It has nothing to do with research stats. As a former teacher and youth leader it could be argued that I have much more experience of youngsters than many parents (the last college I taught at tried to keep me on with an excellent contract). I also have eyes and ears and can see hear children and mothers and fathers interacting in daily life - often how tired and exasperated parents can be, especially at the supermarket! I also have friends both with and without kids, and observed how exhausted the whole process of pregnancy and birth left a friend of mine for months on end. Another friend said she didn't realise how difficult it would be.
I also found that comment a little hurtful as I had already explained my reasons for non-parenthood as I am 100% certain my health problems would make life very difficult for me, for any children I might have had, and everyone else around. I thought very long and hard about forgoing the joys - and sorrows - of motherhood. I believe there is a lot of pressure on women to procreate.
However, when I have a breakdown I completely leave the planet and am unable to look after myself, let alone a baby/toddler/child/adolescent/young adult. I could not guarantee myself free of this curse for however long it takes to raise a child. If other posters' breakdowns have been less severe than mine then I am happy for them, as my personal experience of bipolar is that it is not a benign and remitting condition.
Of course if you have a great husband/partner and plenty of support from wider family, and there are no other ongoing stressful life events (moving house, changing job) then the prognosis for psychosis free motherhood would be improved.
Anyway I hope my position is a little clearer. Life and safety from harm is paramount to me - even at the risk of making myself unpopular!. I can't bear to see an insect drown; I worry about my cats when they stay out late; I have talked a dear friend out of committing suicide many many times. I realise it is very easy to glorify or demonise others we meet on the net, but I can assure you all that if you met me in person you would not find me to be some terrible ---- (please insert whatever, I had the word ogre in mind for some reason) and it would actually be easier to talk nicely about things. Perhaps I should just stick to the weather, eh? (Attempt at light-hearted comment). -
Message 50
Posted by Rose Madder (U14550380) on Friday, 3rd September 2010
Yes thanks - Sunny but I need a bit more info on Cochrane and Pubmed net search please. Which bit discusses this issue? I googled them and got quite a list - I would appreciate it if you could tell me how far to go down this list.
I found many refs to milk, and an A-Z of health problems and under pregnancy found no mention of PPP. It seemed to be more physically oriented - pre-eclampsia and phenylketnouria were there. And they aren't mentioned in the stuff directly on PPP - surely they would be/ should be if they are important names in this field?
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or  to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Ö÷²¥´óÐã iD
Ö÷²¥´óÐã navigation
Ö÷²¥´óÐã links
Ö÷²¥´óÐã © 2014 The Ö÷²¥´óÐã is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.