Messageboard
The Village Hall permalink
Redundancy
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Â
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Gutted. Called in to HR today and told that "my role has been identified as one that will not be required in the company" as we're downsizing due to the recession.
It's not true of course, they're still going to be using the system of fault reporting (a wearisome and badly-written database) that I currently maintain within our plant, and which nobody else at the moment has the skills necessary to cope with, so how they can say it's my role that's gone is beyond belief.
They're making well over 100 people redundant in total, but apparently despite this, it's only the Product Design department who get a 90 day consultation period. I can't see why it makes any difference which department I'm in, surely if the company is in a 90-day period with one department it can't lay off more staff from other areas without the same thing?
I'm dazed and confused and worrying about how I'm going to cope with trying to find new work next month - they're disposing of me when I'll be seven months pregnant.
(Yes, I /have/ just qualified for my Maternity Pay, thank goodness, so at least they can't take that away from me. Skin of Teeth thing, if they'd given me notice 10 days earlier I'd have lost that too.)
I suppose it's time to see what my rights are regarding Industrial Tribunals. This is all so stressful and tiring, I'm not sure I can do it. -
Message 2
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
You poor thing. You have all my sympathy. Such a rotten situation to be in - and then they lie to you on top of it - adding insult to injury.
I just hope that this will be the beginning of something even better. Often, when one thing comes to an end, something better comes along. -
Message 3
Posted by one who posted here once (U4064841) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:28 GMT, in reply to Helen in message 1
Helen, sorry to hear this. It rings some bells with things that have happened to me years ago. You might want to talk to Posh - if I see her in TB shall I alert her to this thread? -
Message 4
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Helen.
You are most definitely allowed a "why me?" moment or three.
I've just put out a call for posh, whose stars are twinkling, so hopefully she'll be able to give you some help.
I suspect you are already not able to enjoy your pregnancy as much as other women can, now this. Grrrrrrrr!!
Dunlurkin -
Message 5
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Helen.. several folk have my number, feel free to call.
-
Message 6
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Poor you, Helen, what a horrible thing to happen to anyone, regardless of the added grief they've given you. Thank goodness you made it to maternity qualification, so I hope at least that's a bit of consolation.
-
Message 7
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Cheers Posh, might take you up on that once I've had a little while to think about the letter they've given me.
Could anyone who's in touch with me on FaceAche and/or Gmail and knows Posh's number please drop me a line with it? Thanks. -
Message 8
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Can't do the swap thing, but Helen, go for it. Posh knows her stuff!
Dunlurkin -
Message 9
Posted by Sister Primrose of the Red Tinsel Flag (U5405579) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Helen,
I'm really sorry to hear this news. I saw a thing in one of the broadsheets last week about how a lot of companies seem to be selecting a lot more pregnant women for redundancy than might statistically be expected.
Talk to someone - union, Posh, CAB about your situation to see whether there might be a sex discrimination aspect to this. There often is even when at first sight it looks like everyone is in the frame. If it is sex discrimination tribunal timetables are fairly tight, you don't want to miss deadlines because you are caught up with a bouncing bubba.
PP -
Message 10
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:52 GMT, in reply to Dunlurkin (NL) in message 8
Don't know the law, but it really sounds as if you're being discriminated against because you're pregnant. -
Message 11
Posted by Miladou bloody but unbowed (U3518248) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Helen, this makes me so cross. especially after just reading this earlier in the week:
Please try to stay calm and happy whilst plotting your revenge! The sisters are all here for you (and lots of brothers as well, of course). -
Message 12
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:44 GMT, in reply to Helen in message 1
Flippen Heck. In France a pregnant woman is protected from redundancy, afaik, precisely because she is a too easy target for less than scrupulous employers.
Hope Posh can help you & don't let it get you down, too much. Keep calm for baby's sake (and s/he is SOOOOOOOO much more important than poxy job.)
Chin up, we're with you! -
Message 13
Posted by Schez (U2212013) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Helen I am so sorry. What a rotten thing to happen.
All I can say is that probably there are also many others whose employers are finding silly excuses to "let them go" because of the financial situation, not that it makes it better for anyone. Sounds to me as if pregnancy might have something to do with it but they dare not say so.
Posh has offered to get in touch with you, I hope you can do that.
I was made redundant twice and it's not fun, I know. -
Message 14
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
I had thought that it was unlikley that a pregnant woman would be made redundant because of the likelihood that the company would be taken to tribunal for discrimination.
You def need to take advice on this
What a bummer Helen. -
Message 15
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
still awaiting call, it's not as simple as it appears. A post is made redundant, not the person and a messageboard is not the best place for me to give personal advice.
Apart from... EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE IN A UNION! -
Message 16
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Whitby, purely being pregnant is no protection from being made redundant. This is a myth.
Being made redundant BECAUSE you are pregnant is illegal but it seems the company may be looking at posts, not people, which is why I think my advice should be offboard. -
Message 17
Posted by politebirder (U4482231) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Wot posh said.
Helen, I am so sorry & angry. Bums & buggrit.
Talk to posh. -
Message 18
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Yes I realise that posh which is why a company afaik has to have a water tight case to make a pregnant person redundant.
-
Message 19
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Which is what the 90 day consultation period is for.
-
Message 20
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
Posh, sorry, I was out at night school (wasn't going to miss the last one of the whole course even if I wasn't exactly feeling like celebrating) and anyway I haven't managed to score your number off anyone yet.
I am in a union anyway, you'll be relieved to hear (I joined one called MSF, which became Amicus and then Unite in fairly quick succession, I /think/ it's still Unite but I may have missed something. They still take my money though...) and already talking to my rep at work, so thanks for offering but I'll probably go and see him when I've got my head together.
I have a working week to appeal. I know that if it comes to it, I'll automatically get a Tribunal because of my pregnant status. I do know that I'm not immune from being picked for redundancy, but I'm waiting to see the criteria they used to judge my "pool" against, to see if they were fair ones or not. And I've also made it quite clear that I get first dibs on any alternative employment going, which I've read is my right due to my pregnant status, though I hold out little hope that there'll be anything.
Thanks for being willing to talk - if I do get your number I'll ring and thank you in person!
H -
Message 21
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Wednesday, 10th June 2009
aha,, your union is the way to go. log everything, every query, every call. I had one a few years back with 200 plus menbers and when I had a member whose diary matched mine it really helped.
posh.
x x x -
Message 22
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Sorry to hear your news Helen and hope all works out for you.
My cousin worked for a well known kitchen ware company based in the Lake District and she was "done" for stealing a sweet that was given to her by a customer.
Like you she was in a union which she involved in the displinary hearing, the upshot was that when asked to provde cctv footage of the alleged theft the manager at the time was unable to do so, my cousin was also accused of taking money out of the till's and of fiddling the floats for the tills.
Two other people were, at the same time, "done" for the same thing, the upshot was that my cousin with the help of her union managed to clear her name and had her job "offered" back to her which very politley told them what to do with. The other two staff memembers weren't so lucky, they lost thier jobs.
It turn out afterwards that it was the manager who had been doing the nicking both of money and goods and doing a dodgy on card refunds to the tune of £30,000!
Lets just say some senior heads rolled at the head office and a few senior memembers of staff were asked to leave the company due to lack of judgement!
The manager was aressted by the Old Bill and taken out of the store via the back entrance, she was given the choice of being taken to court or paying the money back......she paid the money back so my cousin heard!
What goes around comes around as the saying goes. -
Message 23
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Thanks all for your support. I had some of the old nightmares last night and started getting shooting pains through my bump this morning. I have just been to the doctor who said there's nothing wrong with the baby, it's just to do with stress of the situation. I asked him to sign me off til the weekend so I can go to my parents' place and be looked after (o/h is off at Download Festival til Sunday) and he said no. Refused to give me two days... wrote me a note for the next six weeks! So I don't have to go back and face them at all now. Quite a relief.
-
Message 24
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Reading your post, I was all ready to swear at your doctor, but now I'd like to send him a bunch of flowers.
I do hope you meet with the same sort of understanding in everyone else that you encounter in sorting out this situation.
Go and enjoy being pampered.
All the best,
Dunlurkin -
Message 25
Posted by Nomadnomore - XNo - Quiz Queen (U3180380) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
I am outraged on your behalf Helen, I really hope you find the strength and support to argue this and win big time.
I'm glad your doctor was so supportive. It's a godsend when you have one of those isn't it. Mine is great as well.
XNo -
Message 26
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen, does that not kick you into your maternity leave or are you not at that stage yet? ( just remembering when a staff member went off on the sick with something like a cold but it meant she then had to go onto maternity leave sooner than she had wanted to).
Glad the baby is ok. -
Message 27
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) ** on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen, that baby of yours is the most important thing. I am so glad your doctor was so sensible. And you are doing all the right things re. your job in seeing your Union rep.
Just wanted to say, what a bummer and take care.
LynnieP x -
Message 28
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
I'm sorry to hear this Helen. I feel really cross, but hope that when you look back in a couple of years time it will have turned out to be a blessing in disguise.
Take care of yourself and your bump. :0) -
Message 29
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Here in Germany, there have been numerous rigged dismissals of (in particular) women who have been starting to organise their colleagues or build up alliances with unions in non-union firms such as Al*i, Pl** or L*dl. One woman was accused of not putting a bottle deposit refund in the till (hence stealing) after working for the firm for years with no complaints. She was beginning to organise the staff with support from a union, and the dismissal was upheld by a tribunal. It has become something of a cause célèbre and there have been others.
Helen, I hope you and your union take your employers to the cleaners, get compensation and lots of paid maternity leave before quitting. -
Message 30
Posted by Elnora Cornstalk (U5646495) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen, I've nothing useful to say, except express my disgust with them and support for you. This happened to my s-d a few months ago - had a general hint and then, a week or so later, suddenly given 10 minutes to clear her desk. Again, it was the pattern of getting rid of a young woman, along with another couple of 'marginal' employees (all the middle-aged-white-males remained in place).
She also had to undergo the trial of going back in to return documents she'd been working on (I'd have dumped them in the river). After weeks of really low morale, she's just got another job, and is now mentally wiping her feet on them. Keep strong! -
Message 31
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
I think it would enforce starting Maternity leave if the company were keeping to the letter of the law, but they've given me a letter signed by HR stating their own conditions are "if off sick within four weeks of EDD" rather than statutory ten weeks, and this six weeks will take me up to six weeks before EDD. I'd have departed before the four-week date anyway, as I'm due to be induced two weeks before my EDD.
(sorry if that's very confusing, I have been poring over the calendar too, trying to make sure of it) -
Message 32
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
But will your maternity leave start now though ( as opposed to straight sick leave)? If your job doesnt go it would have a bearing at the other end as in you would have to go back sooner.
-
Message 33
Posted by SchueySue (U6041949) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Hello Hello,
I don't know you and you don't me but I do feel for you!
A couple of things I would like to say.
Do go to an Industrial Tribunal nomatter how stressed you are - you really need to find out what your legal position is.
And do keep an eye on what happens to your job once you have departed. Are you being made redundant on fair grounds or will someone be appointed to take your job, i.e. someone maybe older out of child bearing age, or a male colleague?? It has, sadly, been done before. If this happens then you will have a pretty good case against the company as long as you haven't signed away any rights.
I say this because there is a very outside chance that you are being made redundant because you are pregnant. Fair enough, you qualified for maternity leave just in the nick of time but lots of companies view ladies who get pregnant as ladies who make take extra time off in the future because of children's illnesses, or perhaps they think that they will eventually quit anyway to bring up a family.
I wish you well in the future, but please protect your rights.
Sue -
Message 34
Posted by SchueySue (U6041949) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Sorry Helen, I meant to say Hello Helen at the beginning of my message but I was so intent on saying what I did that I typed two Hellos!!
Sue -
Message 35
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
No it wouldn't force maternity leave to start unless it was within 4 weeks of my Estimated Delivery Date, which it isn't. -
Message 36
Posted by patriarchou (U11317033) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen, my knowledge of current employment law is none existent, but I just want to wish you luck for the future - especially with the birth of your little one.
-
Message 37
Posted by TheCatLives! (U12285993) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Just started reading this read; Helen, you have all my sympathy. At this stage in your life, you certainly don't need all this stress, but you do need to protect your rights.
I'm glad that you will qualify for maternity pay. Once the little one is born, you may feel quite differently and wish to pursue a different employment path.
All the best. -
Message 38
Posted by Isabel Archer (U13716168) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Just tagging onto this Helen to commiserate and send my best wishes.
A word of warning: you may have every right to be angry if it turns out that you have been picked on because of your impending maternity leave. Or it may be a genuine redundancy situation which is sad but not a cause for outrage. I suggest that you ask for advice from a CAB or Law Centre if your TU cannot help you. You need to ask the right questions to find out what has happened.
If it turns out that your employer has behaved wrongly, you should of course seek to enforce your legal rights. If your employer has any sense, they will try to put the situation right as soon as possible, particularly if they see that you have taken advice and know where you stand.
But, and this is some way down the road, if it looks as if you are in for a long haul, think carefully about your strategy. Who is going to help you do this? How far are you prepared to go? What compromise would you be willing to accept? I say this because I have some experience of Tribunal cases. They are taxing financially and above all psychologically and you need to be prepared and feel in control of the process. Don't feel obliged to go further than you are comfortable with given where you are in your life at the moment. -
Message 39
Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:45 GMT
Hi Helen - are you in Prod Eng or Prod Deve? I understood that both these departments were shutting down or is this over and above those 2 departments?
Take care of you and yours.. -
Message 40
Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen, I'm really sorry you have been landed this extra stress right now. But you're in a union, get them, get your line manager, get anyone to deal with the mucky stuff regarding this. And just remember, you and DYS are more important than any job.
-
Message 41
Posted by countrypug (U9227943) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen, I've just come on and read this. I can't offer any useful advice, but wanted to offer some moral support, which is the best I can do I'm afraid! I haven't any experience of your position, as although I was (sort of) made redundant when pregnant with my daughter, it started at the time of taking maternity leave, and was partly my decision, as the business was being sold, and I didn't want to return to work for the new bosses.
I hope that the union, and Posh, can help you to make the right decisions, and above all, take care of yourself and DYS.
By the way, give your doc a big smile or hug from all of us - he is great!
Pug x -
Message 42
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Yes ... a wise doctor.
:0) -
Message 43
Posted by Schez (U2212013) on Thursday, 11th June 2009
Helen I'm delighted that your doctor is sympathetic to your situation. Now at least you will have plenty of time to consider how to deal with all this, and where you want to go.
I think sometimes once the baby arrives all your plans go out of the window and you decide to do things differently! So it's partly "wait and see" as well as dealing with these lousy employers who are not treating you properly. -
Message 44
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Angua, I'm in a different department. They've told me that it's only Product Engineering that is in 90 day consultation. I'm fairly sure they can't pick and choose like that if the jobs are going from the same employer on the same site! It would certainly seem unfair if they are forced to give some employees the consultation and not others.
-
Message 45
Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:52 GMT, in reply to Helen in message 44
They did the same thing at GEC in Basildon, was based in core skills, but I don't trust companies these days. Hope you are feeling OK, thoughts are with you. -
Message 46
Posted by geepers (U6804393) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:05 GMT, in reply to Angua - rhetorically challenged smart@rse in message 45
only just seen this, Helen - no wise words, but wanted to offer support. You've got enough stress anyway without all this, so I'm very sorry that it's being added to. Nice GP though - keep him, I'd say. -
Message 47
Posted by strawberrysunrise (U10452397) on Friday, 12th June 2009
"only just seen this, Helen" yep me too.
right, looking over my glasses in a stern fashion.
no more stress,you sit back and deal with any of the stress this throws up, AFTER the baby is born, keep communicating with your GP(he made that decision to sign you off for a very good reason), and just concentrate on having a safe pregnancy for both of you.
your company is totally out of order for targeting you, don't allow them to do any real damage to you.
good luck. -
Message 48
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Sunday, 14th June 2009
[Do go to an Industrial Tribunal nomatter how stressed you are - you really need to find out what your legal position is.]
NO... DON'T! please listen to your trades union.. this is NOT good advice, if you have not submitted a grievance it will be rejected and, if you have, you may not need to.
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or  to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Ö÷²¥´óÐã iD
Ö÷²¥´óÐã navigation
Ö÷²¥´óÐã links
Ö÷²¥´óÐã © 2014 The Ö÷²¥´óÐã is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.