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Otherwise - how can I help her?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
My daughter came back home to live with us six months ago when her boyfriend left her suddenly. Unfortunately she couldn't afford to continue with her business and keep her house - all in another city. So we moved her home with the intention of her finding a job and then a little house share locally. Sounds easy doesn't it? She has a good degree, admin experience, telephone experience, she is bright, funny and attractive. But six months on she has had one interview - most of the time she hears nothing. She is applying mostly for admin jobs in the County Council, local university, charities, NHS.
I think we have got the application form down to a fine art (I used to handle recruitment so have been able to help with this)and the only problem I can see on her CV is that she hasn't worked anywhere very long but then she is only 25 and she has been working consistently since leaving university and also in her gap year.
She has now widened her search to London where she has friends and would be prepared to move but this just as bad.
When I got home from work last night she had just received a rejection from a job she was well qualified for. She'd spent ages on the application and she just collapsed in tears and said 'Mum I just don't know what to do any more'. And to be honest neither do I. I just don't know what to suggest now or how to motivate her to keep trying.
So I wondered, does anyone out there currently work in recruitment? Can anyone offer any advice?
Or anyone in the same boat and we can just have a good moan together.
Rubyxx
PS Yes, I did try the LKs for the interview - even they weren't up to the task! -
Message 2
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Well, I had even better qualifications and experience than your daughter when I moved back to the UK after six years in Germany working freelance for most of the time.
I moved to London and it still took me a year to find a permanent job.
I was registered with about 20 temping agencies so I got some work that way.
Without a bit of savings, however, I'd have been on the streets.
It's tough. I can take a year. Do some temping - it's better than nothing. My temping jobs were one to three days or two weeks max. -
Message 3
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Hi DCM
Actually she is registered with several temping agencies but most of them have very little work at the moment and of course now all the students are back home and looking for work too.
However, having said that she has currently got a temping post with Children's Services in a small town near where we live (she is lucky to have a car and can get there) but she really wants something permanent now. -
Message 4
Posted by GuzziNut (U6364582) on Friday, 12th June 2009
hard tho it is not to take it all personally, and I'm not being rude just realistic.
She has something temping that is good, hang onto that, its experience and work. "Want" "have" and "that will do for now" are three differnet things and temping can lead to permenant even now.
Firms are laying folk off left right and centre. Admin is one of the areas where these cut backs are first made. There are a lot of people chasing the same jobs. Sorry but its true.
Where I work is now into round three of redundancy. Its utterly horrible. I'm at the pointy end, being in construction.
However from the last round that included two admin and two engineering staff, one adin found permenant straightaway and the other is temping.
The other area office admin lady has found a "safer" post and a part time (hours wise) temp has been taken on there, with a view to permenant when things improved, fingers, eyes, teeth crossed...
of the engineers, one is now with a council the other yet to find a thing.
But two former colleagues (eng and lab) found new jobs recently and left.
So yes, there are jobs out there, but getting one right now is not going to be easy. -
Message 5
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Friday, 12th June 2009
So did I when I returned. I was stunned that someone with my experience and ability to communicate in four languages (incl. English) and a typing speed of 65 words a minute etc., plus secretarial experience and great time-keeping skills (try working freelance and not having them) still meant I was not snapped up.
I got so frustrated that I wrote to the PM at the time (who was PM in 1995/96?).
I did get a sympathetic reply back, didn't help much though but at least I was acknowledged.
Two more degrees and even more experience later, I am probably even more unemployable. I tried getting a permanent office job here a few years ago. I didn't even get interviews either.
It's a tough world and often it's sheer luck and being in the right place at the right time.
It's why I prefer to work freelance. If one client walks away, I have others still to fall back on.
The most frustrating thing of all is knowing what you are capable of but no-one giving you the chance to show your talents. That's the hardest thing to take. -
Message 6
Posted by SmellyCat (U14006368) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Sometimes temp jobs become permanent ones and so should not be discounted.
But it is very tricky at the moment.
I hope your daughter does not despair and has better luck soon. -
Message 7
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Yes, I know,things are difficult and it's hard for a lot of people. I was made redundant myself a few years ago and it was awful so I really sympathise with everyone going through it.
It just seems at the moment as if all the rules have changed with job hunting and I just don't know them any more. -
Message 8
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Thanks, Smelly Cat (love the name, by the way)
Yes, I think this is probably her best chance to get something. Once you have worked somewhere and they get to know you, you have a better chance of standing out from all the others.
Ho hum, I guess we just KOKO, as they say! -
Message 9
Posted by GEm (U4356909) on Friday, 12th June 2009
If she's not busy then doing some voluntary work helps to build experience and also to build skills. She could use some of her skills to help them too.
G -
Message 10
Posted by SmellyCat (U14006368) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Thanks, Smelly Cat (love the name, by the way)Â
Why thank you (I'm a Friends fan). You have a great name too!
I'm sure that employing temps is more attractive to the employers nowadays, with a view to picking and choosing possible permanent employees. I certainly have friends who have gained permanent employment this way.
GEM also has a good point about voluntary work - and that can lead to paid employment too. -
Message 11
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Hi Gem - yes, this is part of her plan as she is thinking of going into social work but at the moment with a full time temp job and most of her spare time taken up with job applications she doesn't really have the time.
-
Message 12
Posted by JustJezebel (U7474974) on Friday, 12th June 2009
What a shame for her Ruby. Still, at least she's got supportive parents!
I'd agree with the consensus of looking for temporary/voluntary work, as this is often the best way of securing a permanent post - you're then in a good position to be considered first for any full-time jobs that arise.
I think it's just a case of keeping at it and trying not to become too downhearted.
Good luck
JJ -
Message 13
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Crossthreading (and adding a touch of levity), there may be volunteer jobs going in a certain charity shop in Orpington.
I was also going to suggest volunteer work. Perhaps this site may be able to offer some ideas . If nothing else, a volunteer holiday might be a way of having some cheap fun. Two of my children have been on Cathedral Camps working holidays and had a great time They were in Edinburgh, Southwell and Canterbury Cathedrals. Not many people get to stay in a flat in the Cathedral Close, with a view of Canterbury Cathedral.
My son graduated last year and was extremely fortunate to fall almost straight into a job. I don't imagine he'll want to work in a station bookshop for his whole life, but he was wanting to take a sort of post-uni gap year, before getting down to a 'real' job, and this is filling the bill.
Good luck to you and your daughter.
Dunlurkin -
Message 14
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Actually she has enquired with Barnardo's about volunteering (but had no reply which rather added to her feelings of rejection).
Thanks for kind wishes, yes I guess she is lucky to have us and I have really loved having her home again but I feel like I've done my job now, it's time for her to have a life of her own.
I know you're all going to say 'you're a mother the job never ends' but I hope you know what I mean. -
Message 15
Posted by Finally (U2221028) on Friday, 12th June 2009
I'd agree with everyone who suggests the temp. route. We have recruited a number of people recently, and have had the luxury of picking the creme of the crop of temps. Much less costly, as well as more reliable, than the full recruitment process
It may not be so satisfying, but it will stand you in much better stead than charity roles for any business roles that come up. I'm in the technology side of a media company, where a good few of the most powerful, senior people came up through the ranks. It does depend on having an enormous determination and will to succeed but it *is* possible.
My most urgent suggestion would be for her to think about what she *really* wants to do. It's tough to break in to anything, so finding a burning ambition to succeed in *something* canb help a lot to keep you going till it starts to happen. It may be that social work is really really that thing, whatever it is, I wish her every success. F xx -
Message 16
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Friday, 12th June 2009
I am just translating a letter to staff from the CEO of a big logistics firm, setting out the reforms to keep the company afloat during the crisis.
No. 1. reform - phase out temporary staff.
Sorry to be so negative, but it may encourage your daughter to hang on to what she's got.
As for volunteering, as normal office hours are obviously not available (ref. charity shop), perhaps she might spend a few hours in leisure time volunteering with the Scouts/Guides/Boys(Girls) Brigade or similar, since whe wants to get into work with children or social work. And organisations that work with handicapped or disabled people always need volunteers. That would be rewarding, possibly even fun, and it would be good and relevant experience for her, and she may be able to choose her hours. -
Message 17
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Friday, 12th June 2009
May I just add that my SIL's extensive experience of recruitment led her, after the first couple of graduate markets etc. to move away from qualification and be guided much more by assessment and interview.
She discovered through several bitter disappointments that people with the longest lists of letters after their names and the most dynamic intellect were not always the easiest or best to integrate into a corporate team. Worth bearing in mind when flogging one's many degrees, no? -
Message 18
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
She only has the one notjen! - a BSC in Social Sciences.
Actually, you luvverly people, I have just had a text from her to say she has an interview next Thursday! How's that for the magic of ML. Now where's Eliza for the Lucky Knicks..... -
Message 19
Posted by GuzziNut (U6364582) on Friday, 12th June 2009
well I wish her luck for that interview, Ruby Moon
one thing our lad has made me do for interviews is take a list of questions. So that when they say "do you have any Q?" I dont sit there looking blank and mumbling "not sure" -
Message 20
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Great news, ruby moon. Crossed everything except LK in a twist.
Power to her elbow.
And I sincerely believe one's enough! Her ability to do the job is the best qualification after that, and no doubt she's got it. -
Message 21
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:33 GMT, in reply to Ruby Moon in message 18
well done her on getting an interview.
It is clearly tough at the moment, and competition is steep. I'm frequently recruiting for the type of job it sounds like your daughter is going for. The last post we advertised externaly for about 2 months ago we received over 260 applications. A year or so ago we'd have received around 100. We interviewed approximately 10 people for that post.
With the best will in the world when we've 260 applications to go through they are not all going to get a detailed check not even 5 mins (that would be over 3 days work - and we usually have 2 people look, so that would be over a weeks time). I would say make it very easy for the recruiters to see you've got the skills asked for - if there is a person spec with the job description then clearly show how you match those skills, and when you've demonstrated them in the past. Don't assume that we'll know e.g. if it asks for IT skills such as excel then says you've got them, don't just assume that we'll know it because you must have had them to do a previous job. To be blunt, with these numbers of applications, we're looking for way to weed applicants out, so if something isn't clear to us then that's another for the no interview pile.
It is horrible not even interviewing people who have clearly gone to a lot of effort in filling in an application but we have to do it. I also find it extremely frustrating that we still get several candidates not turning up - fair enough when they withdraw quickly (and we always have a reserve list of candidates) but just not turning up will be preventing someone else getting a chance.
Temping is an excellent route in - we've taken on many people who've started as temps with us. If we already know them they are far more likely to get an interview - which is the first hurdle to get across. It also means you get to see what the job really is like, so know if you want to apply.
Fingers crossed for her. -
Message 22
Posted by ThisLizzie (U5294918) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Ruby,
I can't help at all with recruitment but as one mum to another I'd just like to say it sounds as if you're doing a wonderful job. I think you need to remember that she was able to turn to you for help and somewhere to live so you must have a good, close relationship with her. She's not the only graduate I know of who is out of work but at least she's not alone in a grotty bedsit miles from her family.
Liz. -
Message 23
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Thanks everyone - actually this job is in London so I will have slightly mixed feelings if she gets it as I shall miss her but will be glad for her. ThisLizzie, thank you for saying that, I feel sorry for all of them really, coming out of uni all bright, shiny and hopeful and having to deal with all this rejection.
Hebe, I am really interested in what you say and I guess you were the kind of person I wanted to ask really - how do you choose? She is already doing what you suggest with the application form and lists everything they ask for on the person spec and how she fits it. Do you give any preference to those who ring in to discuss the job (I always think this must help)or how quickly they apply? I know for NHS jobs they say that if they have had enough applications before the closing date they will stop accepting applications. I have to say this seems a little unfair to me as some of these job applications are very long and of course you want to get it right.
Well, good luck to anyone else in this situation and will let you all know how she gets on.
Rubyxx -
Message 24
Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:32 GMT, in reply to Ruby Moon in message 23
how do we choose? with difficulty usually. It tends to be those who can offer the desirable as well as the essential skills/experience.
In our case that tends to mean those who've got very relevent experience in the same sector or specialism or both. That can be one reason why our temps will often get an interview as they can demonstrate both.
We're wondering about this at the moment, as we're not sure it means we're necessarily seeing the best candidates - esp at the more "entry" level posts, nor are we bringing in new ideas and experiences. But as yet we can't think of a fairer or more measurable way of shortlisting.
With us it doesn't matter when you apply as long as it is by the deadline. We can accept applications after the deadline at our discretion, but would very rarely do so when we're drowning in applications. I'm always surprised how many early applications we get (it's done on line where I work so we often keep an eye on how its going) as I would always put applications in towards the deadline so that I wouldn't submit it and then think of the extra brilliant item to include (or spot that spelling error).
Ringing up to ask about the job can work in candidates favour if they don't think they exactly match the person spec, as a chat with us can (a) bring out the factors they need to put into their application and (b) mean that we remember them and will think of them as a serious candidate. We do get a number of applications which clearly are just about banging in as many applications possible - ones that tell us how much they want a career in e.g. HR, when it isn't a job in HR are a bit of a give away - and get scored down on written skills if nothing else! Someone who has bothered to enquire has made more of an effort.
However ringing in can be a double edged sword - make sure that you have something sensible to ask about (not holidays or pay!), and that you have a good telephone manner.
It could be worth seeing if someone would have a look at some of your daughters applications to make sure they really do say what she can do - outside eyes can be better. I wouldn't necessarily suggest asking for feedback from somewhere she hasn't be successful - again the volume would limit it, and to some extent they'll be wanting to demonstrate why they were right not to see her. Would there be someone where she's temping that might be prepared to do so - I would always be prepared to do it for our temps, even if they're applying elsewhere. -
Message 25
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Friday, 12th June 2009
She's already done this actually, Hebe, both with a friend of mine who works in a recruitment agency and the manager where she is temping. I think sometimes she does have the 'essentials' but not all the desirables (who does RSA Typing these days?)and although she would probably be well qualified to do the job, and do it well, on paper someone else ticks more boxes.
Ah, well, it's interesting to see it from the other side of the fence!
Rubyxx -
Message 26
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Ruby, this may not be at all helpful, but I am aware of a local young man in a similar situation to your daughter. His parents became so worried about his loss of confidence that they and the grandparents clubbed together and raised some money to send him travelling and volunteering for a year. When I last heard, he was teaching English to children in Zambia (hope I've got that right). His dad says that as there are no opportunities on offer, he might as well take a year off (he didn't do a gap year trip) and get some useful experience under his belt. With a bit of luck, when he comes back his CV will be eye-catching and he'll have gained useful life skills. It's a bit drastic, but better to have him doing something useful rather than sitting at home getting depressed.
-
Message 27
Posted by Flossie-Collie (U10562436) on Friday, 12th June 2009
Ruby Moon, I can just imagine how your heart aches to see your girl's hopes dashed time after time. I can't add to the advice already given, but I do wish your daughter all the *very* best in finding the job of her dreams. She sounds like a lovely girl who would be an asset to any company that would employ her. She must take after her lovely mother
-
Message 28
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U7606212) on Friday, 12th June 2009
I've been known to draw up a table with the requirements down the left hand column and how I meet them down the right, then print it off, cut it out, and paste it onto the application form. Obviously, if you're allowed to add extra sheets, you can just add it.
I interview for jobs for a charity and I'd echo whoever it was that said above that people don't always show you how they meet the criteria. The thing that bugs me is when we ask for a qualification and the one they list isn't the same but they don't say it's equivalent. Never assume that the person shortlisting is familiar with the qualifications or experience asked for. Or to put it like this, if it asks for two A-levels and you've done a Foundation Course, say that it's equivalent, don't just name the qualification. -
Message 29
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
My daughter got a music degree and then wanted to work in "the arts". She got office experience (working for the Council and a jobs agency hoping to pick up a job for herself!) but just couldn't get into the area of work she wanted.
We recommended she did a touch typing course and she get some computer qualifications and that is what she did and she began to get offered interviews. She could then demonstrate good knowledge of the various computer programmes, and of course could touch type (something she has never regretted being able to do) and it seemed to be the way forward for her.
It might be a good thing for your daughter to do even if she lands a job. Just a degree and then no further training isn't necessarily showing that she wants to get on.
Good luck, and well done you. -
Message 30
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
Westie, son2 did a touch typing course at university for a joke. It was offered very cheaply. But he is so grateful it came his way at that time, because he became a writer and journalist.
-
Message 31
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
I think all youngsters should be taught to touch type ... it could well solve the world economic crisis if everyone that uses a computer at work could touch type :0))
You heard it here first! -
Message 32
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Sunday, 14th June 2009
Morganish,
I think you're being overly hopeful.
I had six years' experience of being abroad, including 6 months' teaching and doing secretarial work in Spain.
"Oh, you've lived abroad," one recruiter said.
"Yes, to help me with my language skills," I said.
"But you might go abroad again," was the rejoinder.
Well, blow me. What a risk. I thought "I shall have to if no-one gives me a job here."
Never underestimate how stupid people are. -
Message 33
Posted by peppered_moth (U14034475) on Sunday, 14th June 2009
r.e. Barnardos, it is depressing when offers of volunteer work don't even get a response. In the area I work organisations are overrun with volunteers and have waiting lists but a polite form letter in acknowledgement would not go amiss.
Having got that off my chest, I am still going to say that if your daughter can get voluntary work or fixed term work experience that directly relates to the area she wants to work in it could be v. useful - I got my current job as a result of my voluntary work supervisor putting in a good word for me with my current boss. However hopefully the interview will come good and she will have no need to volunteer. Best of luck -
Message 34
Posted by Rubymoon (U4092795) on Sunday, 14th June 2009
Just had lovely weekend with friends up from London - sunshine, food and wine, relaxing in the garden so not been in ML. Thanks for all the replies and advice. The idea of a typing course is a good one and one we have also looked into but we live in the wilds of Norfolk and could only find one 60 miles away costing over £400 (we were trying to get an RSA II equivalent which the NHS seem to require)so that sort of ruled that out.
Morganish (this makes me smile as is very similar to my daughter's name)thanks for the suggestion and it has crossed our mind to do something similar - her dad (Mr Moon is her stepfather) has bought a house in Cyprus which he is renovating and she has thought about just going over there to stay with him for a while. But she really feels she wants to get herself started on some sort of career path if she can .
And Flossie Collie bless you for your lovely comment - I'm doing my best!!
Anyway, off in search of more wine and to catch the last bit of evening sun if I can.
Rubyxx -
Message 35
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Sunday, 14th June 2009
I learnt typing at school. When I did A levels, I could go to the first half of each double typing lesson every week.
The teacher gave me an old typing practice book to take home with me and I practised at home for hours and hours.
It's not something you get good at overnight. Get a nice typewriter (I had one of those that came in a little metal case) or a computer keyboard (I hate... nay.. loathe laptop computer keyboards - laptops are not meant for serious typing just for a bit of fiddling about with or PowerPoint presentations) and then just practise in line with the exercise in the book.
Or go to your local library and see if you can get a CD-ROM that has a typing course on it.
No need to go overboard. I've never taken a proper typing exam in my life. The companies have either believed me or the temping agencies ask you to do a typing test in their place when you register with them. That is how I know what my typing speed is. -
Message 36
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Monday, 15th June 2009
I sent my two daughters to typing classes when they were 12. You should see them on computers, they are brilliant. The rattle of keys is a mere hum when they're hacking away, and they are both glad they did the course. I agree, typing and driving licence are two skills so essential that they are hardly ever mentioned.
-
Message 37
Posted by Skylark (struggling to be more blythe and spirited) (U6629883) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Are typing speeds really important these days?
From what I've heard, just about everyone types their own stuff these days because mistakes are easy to correct on the computer. The typed copy can then be passed to an admin officer to put into the right format if need be.
Certainly where I last worked (some years ago I'm afraid), we did our own letters and reports, while the admin officers did clever things with spreadsheets and data bases. Sure, they had to generate letters too, but they were no longer wading through endless audio tapes or handwritten copy. -
Message 38
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Yes, typing speeds are important.
If schoolchildren learnt to touch type, they'd be 25% faster and would finish on the computers faster.
Also, don't think that you don't have to transcribe stuff these days. Even I get asked to do this from time to time. These days, however, I decline as people don't know how to dictate into a machine. My German boss knew and so I'd transcribe his letters when he was off on business trips (about three days a week).
I worked in another Japanese company in London and the directors would still give their hand-written letters to secretaries to type. The British medical director refused to have a computer in his office, for example. And it was me as a secretary who had to do the PowerPoint presentations for my two bosses (Managing Director and Deputy Managing Director).
Even if you are not doing any typing for other people, being able to type fast means you get more work done. And can go home on time (with luck). -
Message 39
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Hello Ruby, it is bluddy disheartning isn't it?
Fingers crossed for your daughter and the interview hope all goes well for her.
Speaking with a voice of caution here, if she does get the London job and moves here even though she is 25 come down with her and if possible help her find a flat share/bedsit.
That way you can rest easy that you've done your best for her and she's not being ripped off or with a bunch of werido's.
I know it's dishearting to apply for so many jobs and I know that posters here do recruiting but the worst part i think is applying for a job and no getting a reply even if it's just to say thanks but unscessful.
The job market is dire and I'm glad that I have stayed at home with my little un, that said my age would now go againest me as i am 40.
One interview I went to about 10 years ago was a peach.....I was asked what I expected to be doing in 5 years time....bearing in mind I was already married with kids......I replied I had no idea what I'd be doing in 5 seconds time let alone 5 years time, the pair intervewing me (man and woman) looked at me looked at each other and laughed....the man said that had been the best and most honset answer they'd had all day....I got the job and was there 5 years before the compay went into adminastration.
When I had been in the job a few months I asked the male interviewer why he had employed me and his answer was that he unlike his lady interviewer had appricated the honsety and humour I had shown during the interview that and the fact that I was the best person for the job, i had apparently shown that I was calm and polite as well as sensible when under pressure.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this, it's important to have the right skills for the job applied for but it's also important to let the people doing the interviewing what kind of person you are as well, a CV can't really convay that.
Tell your daughter to go into the interview and give it her best shot but to talk up what she can do and be herself, and once again good luck. -
Message 40
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 15th June 2009
You're lucky about that question. I think that question (where do you see yourself in five years' time) is the most useless ever devised.
I was at an interview for the job of a manager of a new language school opening up in D'dorf. Things were going quite well until that question. I was honest and said I had no idea.
I mean.. honestly.. how can you answer that question? I have no idea what the next five months might bring. You always have to be open to possibilities. -
Message 41
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 15th June 2009
By the way, you can also google for typical interview questions.
I once went through a list of 50, along with their answers with a woman who was an HR specialist. She thought them extremely useful.
For example
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Message 42
Posted by Tadpole (U2267185) on Monday, 15th June 2009
But it's not a useless question from the employer's point of view. They want to know how likely you are to stick around after 12 months, whether your ambitions are in this line of work or elsewhere, whether you see this job as a stopgap to something else or as your heart's desire. If I'm interviewing for a research post, and candidate A answers that they see themselves making a career in research, would like to do a PhD etc etc, but candidate B says, well, they're interested in research at the moment but they're also interested in xyz and they're not really sure... well, guess who I'm going to pick. -
Message 43
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Well, the way I see life is that I could be run over by a bus next week and be in a wheelchair.
-
Message 44
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:18 GMT, in reply to Dame Celia Molestrangler in message 43
I'm with Tadpole here. As someone who's done a fair bit of recruiting in a togh & desirable area of employment (100 apps for one post sort of thing) in a professional area, I always ask that question about 5 years hence.
I think it's important to distinguish between the persona; thing of "being run over by a bus" and the answer in terms of professional trajectory. If someone doesn't have an idea of where they might be in 5 years time, or where they'd /like/ to be, then I'm not sure they're cut ou for the job.
The example given of someone being honest & using humour is one thing -- but if someone answered that to my question, and then *didn't* follow it up with "But of course, thinking about the trajectory of my work, I'd hope that in 5 years I'd be ..." would not score points in my view. We all have private persona lives, chaotic, organised, or somewhere in between, but it's a *job* interview, and that question can tell an interviewer something about how the person sees their overall life plan. -
Message 45
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Maybe I cannot answer that as I am too truthful.
I also think that if you have a fixed goal, you are more likely to be disappointed if things don't turn out.
~For example, there was one point in my life when I tried to get a job as a translator with the EU. If I had said, "In five years' time, I see myself as a translator with the EU" and it hadn't worked out, then I'd have been extremely disappointed. And with my temperament, that's not a good idea.
I do not define myself by my job. My job is just part of my life. What is at least of equal importance for me is the life that I spend when not working. I have probably more goals there than in my working life.
My aim for my work is quite simple: to do a good job. My aim for my private life could be to learn a new skill, do a new sport, go out with the walking group a certain number of times a month or whatever. -
Message 46
Posted by Glorybal-MUSTARDLAND FOREVER (U7278111) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Coming out of left field here, but your daughter may be able to do an RSA typing course in Cyprus. She may also be able to volunteer or even work part-time. You may have to get advice from MLers who live in Cyprus via a specific thread.
-
Message 47
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Point taken redbookish and I did follow up with saying something along the lines of "That said in five years I would like to still be working here and exploring other areas's of the company to expand my knowledge of the comapny's working".
I DO understand why the question is asked but if you're going for an interview for a supermarket for example how many stay working there for 5 years, everytime I go to my local Tesco or Sainsbury's there's alway a new set of staff.
If the interview is for a law firm or an accountants or a more specialised area than the question, to me, would make sense.
As Dame Ceicla said we could walk out of the interview and get hit by a bus.
I didn't think when I got married that within the first 5 years of marriage I'd have 5 kids under the age of 3 at home (triplets and twins 2 years apart) so if I'd been asked that qestion at the age of 19 I wouldn't have been able to say what the next 5 years held for me.
It also get harder to find work as you get older as well for both men and women. As a woman you have to not only prove yourself capable of doing the job but it's harder when you have kids as to a certian extent it's assumed you'll have to have time off for illness and hols and that brreds resentment with those who DON'T have kids as they than feel taken advantage of.
I'd better stop here as I am getting into hot water and getting off the subject so I will say sorry for offending anyone with my comments. -
Message 48
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:40 GMT, in reply to Dame Celia Molestrangler in message 45
Maybe I cannot answer that as I am too truthful.Â
Which implies that others are not truthful? I think you mean that you are too literal.
I think it's not a matter of "truthfulness" or not ... just that when you are being interviewed for a job, you are being interviewed for a *job* not going for a life-coaching session.
Of course people have different goals in life. In your case, you might say (truthfully) that:
"I see this job as allowing me to exrecise my excellent skills in X Y and Z, while providing me with a decent income in order to pursue other interests. My satisfaction in maintaining this healthy work/life balance will make me an enthusiastic employee. My happiness in this balance, and the use of my skills in the workplace will have a positive effect on the team."
You could go on to explain how aspects of your outside interests could have specific effects on the work you do, or the knowledge you would bring to the job & the team enterprise, and then give examples of how you've one this in the past.
That would be truthful, *and* would recognise that you're being interviewed for a job, not a lifestyle! And that your interest in things outside of work will have a positive effect on your work, and that of the other people you work with. -
Message 49
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:47 GMT, in reply to gigglemahanaz in message 47
I didn't think when I got married that within the first 5 years of marriage I'd have 5 kids under the age of 3 at home (triplets and twins 2 years apart) so if I'd been asked that qestion at the age of 19 I wouldn't have been able to say what the next 5 years held for me.Â
But this is where I think people are being too literal. Of course, any of us could get hit by a bus, have a brood of children, face a life-threatening illness, and so on & on. The interviewer isn't asking you to predict the future. It's a question where the attitude in your answer is as important as the actual answer.
And, ye, I was thinking as I wrote my earlier post that it's a kind of question that is perhaps more appropriate for an accountant than a check-out operator in TEscos. Except that if one were looking at , say, a supermarket job as a good thing for the next few years -- maybe because the hours fit around raising a family, or whatever ... then you could say something about really getting to know the area, the customers, the particular character of that supermarket & its regular customers, and seeking to offer exemplary service etc etc.
Sounds very pi, but as customers, don't we like it when there are regular supermarket employees who understand the area, the products, the lay out of the shop, and respond to our requests knowledgably? And citing the stats which suggest that women with children are very loyal employees IF they find a job which allows them to fit it in around their family responsibilities could be a useful thing to tell a supermarket interviewer. Appeal to their self-interests. -
Message 50
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Run over by a bus and in a wheelchair - anybody could be. That isn't the answer to the question, or perhaps it says something about an underlying pessimism that would also not necessarily be what an employer is looking for. Of course, accidents and disasters happen all the time, but people tend not to go through life suppressing aspirations because a disaster might occur.
Perhaps the question could be better worded to indicate what sort of qualities the employer wants. I have found when translating interview questions (not for jobs but to elicit information) that they often prevent the interviewee from saying what the interviewer wants to know because the language is so unoffensive that it's obtuse. The interviewee's brain is so busy trying to figure out what the question really means that the answer is either irrelevant or not forthcoming at all.
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