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Fear of Flying
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
Apologies if this is an old topic. If it is, maybe someone can point me in the right direction. If not - help and advice would be appreciated.
I used to be a pretty relaxed flyer, but in recent years I've become more and more phobic to the point where I am avoiding it altogether. This is a problem as I sometimes have to travel for work and I have close family and friends abroad who I desperately want to see. I flew to the USA last year and tried a spot of hypnotherapy before I went but it didn't help for a number of reasons, but mostly because I didn't believe it would.
I believe flying's one of the commonest phobias, so I've no doubt there are other sufferers on this board. What is your experience and, more importantly, is there anyone out there who has successfully overcome it? I'd love to hear some suggestions.
Trillian -
Message 2
Posted by tinners-hare (U9904261) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
Hello Trillian.
I successfully overcame this phobia to the point at which I am no longer phobic, but merely an anxious flyer. However, his does at least mean I can fly.
I overcame it in many ways including actually flying because I had very little choice if I wanted to see my OH who was working overseas.
I also did a fear-of-flying course online. Don't laugh - they do exist and it really helped me. Just type it into goofle and you'll find one. Honestly, I was so phobic I even had panicky thoughts just driving past an airport so I know exactly where you are coming from.
I also approached my doctor for help and she was VERY understanding and helped me alot.
The thing that most helped me was doing mega-research around the subject of aviation and finding out about the safety regulations etc. It really helped to know that turbulence cannot hurt a plane and also to discover the rigorous tests that planes are put through.
Trust was a big issue for me so researching the training and on-going training for pilots was important for me to find out about.
For me information was power and helped me so much. I was dubious at the time but it really worked.
Another lesson was learning how to deal with risk. Again, this was covered in the on-line course. I recomend you give this a go for starters. There are plenty of fear-of-flying courses run by airlines out of Heathrow I think, but these might not work for you. -
Message 3
Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:35 GMT
The major UK airlines run courses as well
This is one
Good luck -
Message 4
Posted by Isca (U9480909) on Saturday, 13th June 2009
Trillian, I am a pilot (currently grounded on a medical technicality) who is also a hopeless arachnophobic. So I have some understanding of flying, and of anxiety.
If you could narrow down your anxiety about flying, or break it up into units.. like, say, "I hate it when the engine noise changes" or "I hear most crashes happen on take-off or landing.. is that true? Why?" (which are common queries from friends) .. I can certainly try to help with any technical reassurance. If it is more general or vague, along with the remedies already suggested, have you thought about EFT? (The "wrist-tapping" therapy)? It was suggested to me for my arachnophobia, and while it hasn't cured it, it has helped to the point where it's manageable. And friends tell me it has worked wonders for their fear of flying (or was that just, flying with me..?)
I sympathise hugely, because I still struggle not to feel nervous entering an empty room, between September and November..! But there are ways to tackle these hurdles. -
Message 5
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Sunday, 14th June 2009
Thank you all for your suggestions. I have just returned from a lovely relaxing day cruising down the river on an old Thames sailing barge, and, as is the way after a nice relaxing day, I'm exhausted. I'll read your posts more carefully tomorrow. Thanks again.
-
Message 6
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 15th June 2009
I was about to start pontificating to Isca about how effective desensitisation therapy seemed to be for curing arachnophobia when I thought "hold up - what about practising what you preach?".
The upshot is, I've booked myself onto the Virgin Atlantic fear of flying course in August. I'm nervous already just thinking about it, but apart from anything else, it's a fair whack of money so I won't chicken out. At least I think I won't.
Having done that, can I just mention to Isca that I used to work with a girl whose arachnophobia was so intense she was unable even to hold a conversation without bringing the subject up. She attended a desensitisation course which was then run by Birmingham University, and went on, with indecent haste, to become a commercial breeder of tarantulas.
That's a true story.
Thanks for the link, Angua. -
Message 7
Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:10 GMT, in reply to Trillian41 in message 6
Good luck Trillian! Is your name from HGttG btw? -
Message 8
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Angua, yes it is, although it kind of sounds a bit like my own name which is why I chose it. The 41 was necessary because ordinary Trillian had already gone.
Yours is a Terry Pratchett ref I presume? I haven't read many of his books, but I've occasionally enjoyed the audio books read by Tony Robinson. Good for the car. -
Message 9
Posted by stolenkisses (U6230663) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Isca - this just has to be asked: what do you do if a spider gets into the cockpit?
Sorry
sk -
Message 10
Posted by Isca (U9480909) on Monday, 15th June 2009
LOL, SK!
Mercifully, flight decks are massively spider-unfriendly. But it has been known; occupational hazard bush flying in Australia.
The honest answer to the question, I suspect, is throw a huge girly fit and hope the big burly bloke in the other seat deals with it. Come to think, now I know what those immense heavy technical manuals are for...
Trillian, you're very gutsy. Do please let us know how you get on. And I do like your tale about the tarantula breeder. Is desensitisation gradually increased exposure to the --- eeep! --- object of fear? -
Message 11
Posted by stolenkisses (U6230663) on Monday, 15th June 2009
The honest answer to the question, I suspect, is throw a huge girly fit and hope the big burly bloke in the other seat deals with it. Â
hehe I expect that is why you have co-pilots.
I shouldn't be laughing because I am not a particularly happy flier myself. In my case I think it is an issue of control/trust - and the fact that if something goes wrong, there's not a thing I can do to improve my own chances. I'm not happy in the passenger seat of a car either.
I believe hypnotherapy can work but only if you find the right kind of therapist for yourself.
sk -
Message 12
Posted by Bette (U2222559) ** on Monday, 15th June 2009
I'm not a happy flyer either, though thankfully haven't got a phobia about it (yet).
I /was/ reassured a couple of years back by a pilot who gave me a demonstration of air-lift using back-of-spoon against tap-flow, and who likened turbulence to a car going over ruts in the road. Those two things helped me a lot. -
Message 13
Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:54 GMT, in reply to Isca in message 10
Isca - those manuals cost a fortune! What type do you fly? -
Message 14
Posted by Skies (U8985678) on Monday, 15th June 2009
I'm not scared of flying, but I am scared of crashing.
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Message 15
Posted by captainbenayoun (U13326760) on Monday, 15th June 2009
You may want to have a look at NLP training? I was a nervous flyer, not phobic I think, and would always feel the need to revert to my catholic roots on take off and landing. I used to joke that other passengers had no idea that it was only my repatition of prayers that made the landing and take off go OK. Anyway, a colleague who is a NLP practioner spent about 10 minutes taking me through the NLP processes and I've been fine ever since.
NLP is the process that Paul McKenna uses on his I can make you thin/stop smokimg etc.
Cap -
Message 16
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Isca - desensitisation is a very gradual introduction to your nemesis. Apparently the 'patient' (for want of a better word) dictates the pace and I believe it is a pretty painless process. Apart from the spider-breeder, I had another friend with a fear of birds who also had a successful experience with desensitisation (after a short detour via a Freudian psychotherapist who she ditched after one session).
The fear of flying course is a kind of desensitisaion therapy, but it all happens in one day!
It's in August, but I'll report back. -
Message 17
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 15th June 2009
Skies - yes, that pretty much sums up the problem for me too.
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Message 18
Posted by Katyagain (U6449139) on Friday, 26th June 2009
Dear Isca,
I was sent in your direction via a different thread because I am going to take a fear of flying course on July 19th. I used to LOVE flying , but for 25 years have not flown and I think the trouble is partly lack of habitual flying; although that is not the whole story.
I really need to feel free of the fear even if I don't actually fly much myself. My son who is now 15 is flying all over the place on school and scout trips and I worry so much it is crippling!
At any rate I will be pitching up at Newcastle Airport with my passport (obviously in case we have to crash land in France or someplace).
Ready for anything!
Katy X -
Message 19
Posted by Belle au bois dormant (U9706573) on Friday, 26th June 2009
What cured me was thinking that - what with all the thousands of flights taking place in the skies at the very same moment of my moment of panic - why was I so self important to think that I was going to be on the one that crashed.
-
Message 20
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 31st August 2009
Just bumping this ancient thread and reposting the link
I've just attended this course and I can't recommend it enough, especially for the people who fly all the time but in a state of abject misery. This is not meant to be an advert for Virgin or Richard Branson (whose gurning fizzog also appears on the cover of the accompanying book) but it is a highly entertaining and informative day, culminating in a short "narrated" flight. Can't say my fears exactly melted away in one day, but I now have enough information to rationalise the weird sensations and noises which used to freak me out.
So if, when you next go on holiday, you find yourself sitting next to someone saying things like "that noise is the undercarriage coming up, now the flaps are being retracted and the angle of climb adjusted", you'll know why. Two hundred quid well spent I reckon.
Next demon to banish - motorways! -
Message 21
Posted by jane_berry (U3025755) on Monday, 31st August 2009
Trillian - read my thread in TB. Actualy slept on one of them yesterday, first time I ever had (and first time slept in about a week full stop).
I also used to be a resonably relaxed flier much as I hate them now. I think what did it for me was the children. As an adult you know that very rarely accidents will happen and if you make it out or not then in God's hands, for me anyway. Then suddenly I had two small vulnerable humans to care for and want to survive and it started to worry me very much on getting them out safely if need be. Uncomfortable to say the least. My survival was in God's hands and a degree of willpower, theirs was entirely down to me and maybe more willpower than I could manage
Of course both can now sit in the emergency row and possibly my survival is down to them.
Getting better on understanding the engineering as well. -
Message 22
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 31st August 2009
Jane - nice to meet you, by the way - I have yet to crack the sleeping-on-planes thing, but this is as much because I always travel cattle class and the facilities are not exactly conducive.
I guess I believe my survival is in the pilot's hands ( a sort of substitute God for me during the course of a flight) so knowing what he's doing and why is a huge benefit.
Also learned some psychological "tricks" to fool the brain into relaxing, but I've yet to be convinced by those. -
Message 23
Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Monday, 31st August 2009
Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:34 GMT, in reply to Trillian41 in message 22
Thats great news Trillian - well done -
Message 24
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 31st August 2009
And thanks to you, Angua. You posted the link, which I followed.
-
Message 25
Posted by theplowman (U14113844) on Monday, 31st August 2009
Trillian, yes, tend to agree that your survival, and indeed everyone's, including small children, is entirely down to the pilot and/or co-pilot, or, if both of them have a problem, there being someone else on board who can fly a commercial jet. Not sure what the Big G has to do with it. Unless he/she was otherwise engaged on 9/11.
-
Message 26
Posted by Katyagain (U6449139) on Monday, 31st August 2009
Trillian! I did this same course in July and am admiring my certificate of achievement as I type. Hope it went well. I found it totally brilliant and am now fairly fearless.
Love
KatyXX -
Message 27
Posted by squeakpuss (U14122361) on Monday, 31st August 2009
I developed fear of flying as a result of having an unrelated panic attack on one flight, therefore worrying more on the next and so on until a full blown phobia developed and I couldn't fly for over ten years. I did a fear of flying course and made a couple of test flights in one day but it didn't help in the long term.
However, in the last five years I have overcome it gradually, lengthening the duration of the flight until last year when I made it over to New York. The flight was very turbulent for hours but I coped okay and even nearly dropped off to sleep at one stage!
I am not cured as I think I need to fly more often to completely retrain my mind and be able to truly relax. However I do believe I have the key to it now.
For me it was finally understanding the nature of fear and the physical manifestations of fear and panic. Once I realised that I was creating a cycle of panic based only on a thought I had generated rather than a real threat, I could gradually reduce the effect on my body and start creating a cycle of relaxation rather than fear.
All sorts of other 'tricks' are helpful also, chiefly based on the fact that the brain can only feel one thing at a time. Having a motive to fly stronger than the fear, so concentrating on the destination and the achievement not the flight. Distracting one's attention and concentrating hard on something else the second fear starts to rise. Fixing one's face into a big smile fools the brain after a bit and it releases feel-good endorphins.
I would recommend seeing a psychologist or hypnotherapist for a few sessions and focus on learning to feel and overcome fear rather than concentrating on fear of flying specifically.
Good luck! -
Message 28
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Monday, 31st August 2009
You'd need to be a bit careful where you tried that one.
No seriously, the course touched on various ways to get the brain to calm down, including NLP, which is a little weird, but lots of people seem to swear by it. Much of it is understanding the ways we feed our fears. I'll be steering clear of the Discovery Channel with its screaming obsession with air crash investigation shows! -
Message 29
Posted by jane_berry (U3025755) on Tuesday, 1st September 2009
Actually Trillian the investigation shows are not necessarily bad. Found myself 2 days before flying to Chicago the other week watching footage of the US's worst crash before 9/11 which happened there. The footage was horrific but the prog explained in detail the lessons learned - namely a good idea to have duplicated controls to pilot and co-pilot so that devestating damage to the ones on one wing means they know about it and can fly the plane
-
Message 30
Posted by tinners-hare (U9904261) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Bumping the thread as I'm in a cold sweat.
OH and I booked a holiday last night for the family before Christmas. I was okay at the time in fact, I felt very excited.
However, today I have woken with a sense of dread and real anxiety and am wondering how I can deal with the next few weeks of worrying.
I have done the Fear of Flying course online and it helped with the 'flying' part but I still have this terible anxiety which seems to materialise from nowhere.
To me the worst part is the departure lounge, where I have the most difficulty. I think it's because in my mind I still see myself as having a 'choice' whether or not to board the plane. Airports are just terrifying places for me.
Once I'm on the plane and in the air, I tend to view it more as a 'done deal' and can be quite chilled. I have learnt to trust the pilots (a bit!) and I think about exits etc. I have experienced some horrific turbulence (lasted 10mins)and smiled at the children and said...it's okay, the wings will NOT fall off. About two years ago I did a ten hour flight.
Where has this angst come from and how do I deal with the increasing anxiety as the date approaches? I want to be able to enjoy the whole experience including looking forward to this holiday with pleasure and without trepidation. Any ideas? -
Message 31
Posted by Lindy (U9525153) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Sorry you are feeling like this Tinners.
I used to be terrible, but the more I flew the better it became. What really helped me, we had a holiday on Kos once, and we were right beneath the flight path. Seeing so many planes flying overhead during the day (and not a single crash!) made be realise how silly I was to worry.
Having said that, OH wants to go to NZ when we retire (next year) and I really don't think I can do a long haul flight.
Best of luck with it all, not easy I know, Lindyx -
Message 32
Posted by tinners-hare (U9904261) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Thank you Lindy.
I feel like I've let myself down. Last night I was so positive and optimistic and really excited. I thought I'd conquered the worst of my 'flying' demons.
Today I have woken up feeling sick and anxious. I feel like slapping myself.
NZ is such a long way and I totally understand your reservations. Long haul is exhausting enough without any extra stress on top.
I do feel very silly too. Argh!!! -
Message 33
Posted by dondy (U3463640) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
To me the worst part is the departure lounge, where I have the most difficulty. I think it's because in my mind I still see myself as having a 'choice' whether or not to board the plane. Airports are just terrifying places for me.Â
I know what you mean Tinners. If only one didn't have to wait around for so long. Wish I was super rich and could just pitch up and be taken straight to the plane.
Don't beat yourself up over the nerves - you've agreed to book the holiday and go. That's a huge step in my book.
If you're anything like me, the anxious anticipation is far worse than anything you've actually experienced on a plane.
Good luck and go for it !
dondy
who hasn't flown for nearly 10 years and only managed to go overseas again two years ago, so knows what you mean about the "sick and anxious" bit). -
Message 34
Posted by tinners-hare (U9904261) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Thanks db - you are SO right about the anticipation of anxiety. I have to try and hold that thought.
-
Message 35
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Imagine my surprise to see this old thread bumped! At the moment I am like the evangelistic ex smoker who thinks if I can do it anyone can. I attended the Flying Without Fear course in the summer and I've also gone and booked myself a flight at Christmas. Not NZ, only Europe, but in previous years I've had to schlepp across on ferries and trains because I couldn't even face the idea of flying. I realise that booking a flight is not the same as actually doing it, but I'm almost looking forward to it - almost!
Information is your friend, though, and there's loads of it available to you. The more you understand the less frightening it seems.
It's a fact that we deliberately feed our worst fears, by letting our imaginations run riot and by unconsciously seeking out things to reinforce our preconceptions. I used to find myself inexplicably drawn to those crash-and-burn documentaries on the Discovery Channel. Planes must crash all the time, I thought, or how can they find enough material for all these programmes? Easy - it's the same few incidents constantly rehashed, but it took me a while to work that out.
Put it out of your mind until you're ready to go and, when you do, focus on looking forward to your holiday, not dreading the flight.
Hark at me! Nothing worse than a recent convert is there?
Steps down off soapbox. -
Message 36
Posted by tinners-hare (U9904261) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
It really does help to know others go through all this 'nonsense'.
I totally agree about knowledge being power and helping to reassure too.
I am that person who sits there saying...that's the undercarriage and that noise means X, Y and Z etc...etc...snore snore. -
Message 37
Posted by Trillian (U14033122) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Tinners - I fully intend to be that person next time I fly. It is my ambition to be a plane bore.
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Message 38
Posted by tinners-hare (U9904261) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Snork, Trillian.
We should go on a flight together and bore each other to absolute tears. It could even be fun.
-
Message 39
Posted by Isca (U9480909) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
Can I come?
I'm still grounded, and likely to be for the foreseeable.. I miss it. Badly. Promise I wouldn't say a word. Pretty pleeeze..? -
Message 40
Posted by Flakey (U13643566) on Thursday, 15th October 2009
I used to be a happy flyer but hate it now. I do one a year to keep my hand in so to speak. Its a short flight from Limoges to Blighty and back. I have to get the exit seat so I do not feel so hemmed in. That is the problem for me not the flying, the utter loss of control and lack of space. I cling on to the seat with a large g&t as the tears roll slowly down my face - its quite pathetic. However I do at least do it once a year !! I am glad to say I have done it this year and alone PHEW!
Flakey -
Message 41
Posted by dondy (U3463640) on Friday, 16th October 2009
However I do at least do it once a year !! I am glad to say I have done it this year and alone PHEW!Â
Well done, Flakey. You should be proud of yourself for being so determined.
I have a plan to go off to our local airport on my own and just fly to somewhere like Amsterdam for the day, to get back into the swing.
I think I am a better passenger when I am on my own, as I don't have anyone to bore to death with my anxieties ! Also, it's a lot easier at a small airport than having to hang around for hours in one of the major ones, IMHO.
I did a lot of flying when younger, often travelling on my own. I can't say I ever enjoyed it, but at least I DID it back then.
Not sure how this will work out for flying with the family on holiday, but one step at a time !
dondy
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