Messageboard
The Village HallÌý permalink
Otherwise-Alcohol
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Ìý
Posted by kittismum (U2266865) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Please Please help me, I don't know what to do or where to turn, my Daughter is binge drinking very heaverly, she was so drunk last night that she was sitting on the floor half naked because she couldn't find the loo. She is drunk again now and I don't know how to handle it I've just taken 4 cans of larger away from her but I don't know if she has more.
She lives with us now as we think she lost her flat through being nasty to the neighbours whilst drunk, she doesn't like her job and has been off sick with 'stress' but she is meant to be going back on Friday. I just want to shout at her and at the same time run away from it all why is life such a b**ch. I don't know how to help her please can anyone advise.
She has a Doctors appointment tomorrow to be signed of and in a fit of anger I said that I would be going with her, but I know the Doctor wont see me. Please can anyone help? -
Message 2
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Why won't the doctor see you? Anyway, if nothing else, you will know that she makes it to the appointment.
When my mother was getting ill, we did call her GP and ask him about her ability to drive. Obviously he couldn't say much about what they had previously discussed, but he could listen to us, and my mother did mention a few weeks later that the GP had asked whether she was fit to drive (no idea what her answer was!) So even if you can't go into the appointment (and having had my mother take me to the doctor during A-levels and not let me get a word in edgeways about anything, I can see her point of view as well!) you can at least let them know your concerns, even if you won't know exactly what goes on in the appointment.
Al-Anon is for relatives of alcohol dependent people. There will be people going through the same thing, and they will have an idea of what you're going through, be able to suggest things you can do - and where you have to accept you can't fix it. Also the alcohol thread. -
Message 3
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Gwensmumsyoungest
Don't know what to say at present, but have flagged this thread up in the alcohol thread so those who monitor that and have wiser words than me/experience as a parent can come into here
In the meantime - hold on in there. You've probably got a difficult journey ahead of you. The thing you have to take on board to start with is that you can't make her stop, however much you want to - she has to do it. However may cans you take away, she'll find a way to get more if she wants
Mantra of those of us with drinkers in the family
You didn't cause, can't control, and can't cure the alcoholic/addict behaviours -
Message 4
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:26 GMT, in reply to Gwensmumsyoungest in message 1
gwensmumsyoungest, as Mabel and bearhug said, there's a lot of people posting in here with experience of exactly the situation you describe -
'scuse me for CapLock 'shouting, but YOU ARE NOT ON YOUR OWN ANY MORE...
Mabel has brilliantly flagged this up in the Alcohol thread which is a place of incredible support, encouragement and kindness as well as experienced opinion, guidance and suggestions as to what can help, and the range of practical help and support there is out there in the 'Real World'.
It's a situation where people really feel unable to tell others until they reach breaking point, but the important thing is that you now have others with experience of the same situation to help you to find out for yourself what you can do - and just as importantly what you CAN'T do to help your daughter, and also how to protect yourself from the damage, too.
Hang on in there, as has already been said.
Laura -
Message 5
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:34 GMT, in reply to Gwensmumsyoungest in message 1
One other thing, from my own experience dealing with an alcoholic...
Okay, two other things
1 - if she is drinking so heavily that she can't find the loo, then goes to total zero-intake in a drastic effort to go cold turkey, it can actually cause major medical problems, not all of which may be obvious at the time, so she really should stop with medical advice, from GP at least, re certain supplements like thamine that can prevent damage.
2 - her GP may not speak to you about her problems because of confidentiality but there is NOTHING to stop you printing off your opening post here and adding anything else you like and handing it in at the GPs' surgery this afternoon, mentioning to the receptionist that you really think the doctor should read it before seeing your daughter. You can also request in your letter that he not reveal to your daughter that he's had this letter.
Take care of yourself too - talk about this to your close friends; you may find they already have experience of this kind of thing, as it's so sadly common. Even if they don't, a good friend wants to help support you and it is really important that you don't pour all your energies into trying to "fix" your daughter and leave yourself run dry
Laura -
Message 6
Posted by Prof Pepita in Wonderland (U3101721) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
I am so sorry to hear of your situation, Gwensmumsyoungest. I am not a professional expert, but I do know that it is very ill advised and dangerous to just stop alcohol consumption at once, or even to drastically reduce intake too quickly. That can and often does cause epileptic seizures which can be very serious.
So I'd advise you to make that clear to your DD- or at least try to prevent any sudden drastically reduced consumption etc.
Al Anon, for relatives etc.of alcoholics/those with problesm sounds like an excellent port of call. They have a helpline where you can just talk to a counsellor on the phone about your daughter's and your predicament. If you google Al-Anon you'll be able to find the telephone numbers, meeting venues etc.
Here's the link to their website:
Ìý
All the best, and I hope you and your daughter get the help you so urgently need. -
Message 7
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Gwensmumsyoungest
I'm so sorry to read this. I don't think there's anything useful to add to what has already been said here.
Do try Al Anon (the phone line will not take you to a counsellor but to someone who has been in a similar position to yourself) - or just turn up to a meeting where you will get a warm welcome. Please come and join us on the Alcohol threads - if you are looking for something to distract you from things going round and round in your head (I heard someone recently describe it as a washing machine head) you might find reading your way back through the threads (you can link back for a couple of years' worth will give you a huge amount of shared experience both of those who have had alcohol problems and those who have people with alcohol problems in their lives.
I'll go and wave to you from the thread to bump it up to the top. I've got to get on with a pressing pile of work myself but I'll come back in later.
Quite right whoever mentioned the mantra - you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it - but you can make sure that you are well informed about it and that your daughter is aware of all possible sources of help if and when she reaches the position of accepting help.
Fee -
Message 8
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:49 GMT, in reply to Pepita Ocho in message 6
I do know that it is very ill advised and dangerous to just stop alcohol consumption at once, or even to drastically reduce intake too quickly. That can and often does cause epileptic seizures which can be very serious.Ìý
Just to clarify - ONE of the things that sudden reduction from heavy consumption can do is to induce seizures - but there are other things that have few or no symptoms at the time, and I'm thinking specifically of a type of brain-damage which leads to a range of subsequent problems... which can be avoided in most or all cases by medical supervision...
Anyway, gwensmumsyoungest, I hope you find some useful information in the links, and the knowledge that you're not alone in this - and I hope you feel able to tell your daughter's GP what you understand of the situation.
And just to reiterate... you didn't cause this, you can't control this and you can't cure it - but you can help the drinker to get help and you can get help yourself so it doesn't wreck your life as well!
Laura -
Message 9
Posted by Prof Pepita in Wonderland (U3101721) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Oh- sorry if I misled anyone or misused the term 'counsellor'- I wasn't sure what to call the person who answers and gives advice, so used that...I have phoned them myself re. a friend and the person I got hold of had been through similar experiences and was lovely and sympathetic, and she did give me advice too.
Thanks for clarifying that re. the other dangers of abrupt reduction in alcohol intake, Laura. Very useful to know that too. -
Message 10
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Oh, yes - I forgot that bit, Laura - thanks for reminding me. Yes, as Al Anon has it, "you can find serenity whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not".
Fee -
Message 11
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:01 GMT, in reply to Pepita Ocho in message 9
Pepita, sadly I had to learn about it through seeing someone develop some really odd behaviours over about 3-4 months following a failed effort to give up alone, cold turkey... the future prospects are grim...
Anyway, that's the worst case scenario, gwensmumsyoungest! Your little one is young and otherwise healthy, and with your support and obvious love, and a good GP and everything else available to her, and to you, it may well be that she can look back in a year and wonder how she ever let things get so bad!
Laura -
Message 12
Posted by Prof Pepita in Wonderland (U3101721) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
I don't want to hijack the thread with descriptions of things which may be undesired etc.- but could you please point me in the direction of a website etc. , Laura, where I might find out some more details about what you mentioned as another possible side effect of sudden withdrawal? Thanks.
-
Message 13
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:25 GMT, in reply to Pepita Ocho in message 12
Pepita, if you go to Wikipedia, and look for Wernicke's and Korsakoff's also spelt Korsakov, etc., then you'll find quite a clear Joe-Public explanation - from there, you can follow links to more medical sites. There's quite a strong campaign on for A&E staff to be more alert for the signs of Wernicke's as at the time it can just look like tired drunken stumbling and slurring, but if untreated can then predispose (they think) to Korsakoff's psychosis...
gwensmumsyoungest, if you're reading of this with mounting horror and dismay - please don't worry too much! It's not all that common and the majority of people don't have a problem with it. I'm just very very aware of it because of the creeping deterioration of an active alcoholic in middle life who is still in denial but whose account of daily happenings is getting ever-weirder...
Laura
Here's the basic page - follow the links from there -
Message 14
Posted by Prof Pepita in Wonderland (U3101721) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Thank you for that Laura.
-
Message 15
Posted by Judith Hearne (U7775397) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
GMY.. How long has this been going on? You say your daughter lost her flat because "you think" she was nasty to the neighbours while drunk..Are you possibly extrapolating backwards from behaviour you see now?
Are we talking about a bad patch, or an extended pattern?
Not wanting to sound nit-picky, but I know from experience (on both sides!) that it's all too easy to decide that someone who's drinking heavily *at the moment* is, and always has been, an alcoholic. I wanted to mention this only because the best approach to take with your daughter may depend somewhat on this.
For what it's worth, my instinct is NOT to go to the doctor with your daughter. When I was a very troubled young 20-something, I saw the family GP... Who then discussed my case with my mother. It caused *enormous* problems. My own feeling is that, if in doubt, err on the side of not seeming too intrusive. It may be extremely important to your daughter, later if not right now, to feel that people she can turn to, like GPs, are impartial and that anything she says will stay absolutely confidential. -
Message 16
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
There's quite a strong campaign on for A&E staff to be more alert for the signs of Wernicke's as at the time it can just look like tired drunken stumbling and slurringÌý
Hepatic encephalopathy was one of the secondary causes of death on my mother's death certificate (don't worry, GMY - this after a history of about 20 years active alcoholism, with hepatitis C thrown in on top, as well as other chronic health issues, so it's not something you need to worry about right this second!) Anyway, I can confirm that although I didn't realise it was due to her liver starting to shut down at the time (we thought it was because of all the meds she was on), we all thought that her behaviour was just like in her drinking days (triggering the same old emotional reactions), and the hospital also asked if she had started drinking again, as well as asking about encephalopathy, but there was absolutely no evidence she had been drinking again. So you would recognise the symptoms, but it's not easy to tell if it is down to recent drinking or other issues without knowing the recent history. -
Message 17
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
That's appalling Judith. I think perhaps it would be less likely to happen now - I think there's much greater awareness of issues of confidentiality, data protection and so on.
I agree with you, btw, about labels - it can be very difficult to tell from the outside whether someone is drinking excessively because they want to and could stop using without difficulty if and when they decided they no longer wanted to - or whether they have become dependent to at least some extent. From the point of view of the affected family member it doesn't much matter - the ways of coping best with it and stopping it making your own life a misery are probably much the same.
Fee -
Message 18
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
I saw the family GP... Who then discussed my case with my mother. It caused *enormous* problems.Ìý
I don't know how old you are, Judith, so don't know how long ago it was, but I'm pretty sure that a GP wouldn't do that these days without permission from the patient. For that very reason of enormous problems and needing to trust the impartiality and confidentiality of the GP. Of course, there's always a risk that you get an unprofessional GP, but these will be very few and far between IME, so you'd have to be very unlucky there. -
Message 19
Posted by Celebrian (U12324885) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Hi GMY (is that abbrev OK, it's such a long name...?) I know you're frustrated and powerless and angry and miserable.... I know what it's like from both sides, as an alkie and from talking to my husband as the husband of an alkie.
Please stick with your daughter and show her you still love her no matter what happens. If my loved ones had given up on me I wouldn't be alive today.
Why won't the GP talk to you? Seems crazy to me - maybe we have a different system here in Ireland but I would have thought that any concerned family member was entitled to be kept in the loop.
I know you want to shout at her and scream "why, you stupid ****, why?!" but that is exactly what she's shouting at herself. We don't know why, we hate ourselves for doing it, it's an addiction we can't control. But she can beat it, so long as she has support and love. NOT the love that keeps supplying her with money to buy more booze, or ignoring all the drunken episodes. The tough love that goes with her to AA meetings, the GP, the clinic or wherever is necessary, that holds her hand when she's sick and shaking, that loves her despite everything. Don't give up on her. Please.
I'm crying now for her, you, myself and all other As out there. Fight against it.
x C -
Message 20
Posted by Judith Hearne (U7775397) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
Hi Fee!
"From the point of view of the affected family member it doesn't much matter - the ways of coping best with it and stopping it making your own life a misery are probably much the same."
Yes. But what I meant (doh!) was that the best way of coping with it -- and thus coping with your own painful responses -- are different, depending on whether you're dealing with an established addict or someone who's going through a grim patch and is using a particular drug, in this case alcohol, to run away.
I know many will disagree, but it seems to me that the crucial difference is whether you try to treat the drinking, or the misery.
In my own case, for instance, it was the underlying unhappiness that needed addressing. The drinking then became manageable. -
Message 21
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 16th June 2009
I know many will disagree, but it seems to me that the crucial difference is whether you try to treat the drinking, or the misery.
In my own case, for instance, it was the underlying unhappiness that needed addressing. The drinking then became manageable.Ìý
Yes, but the only person who could really address the drinking or the misery or the link between the two was yourself - and those close to you probably needed to understand that (which is why I say it would have been similar regardless of which situation it was) - and that the extent to which they could sort out either for you was limited - although I can see that if it was their actions that were making you unhappy they might have been able to do a bit more - but it would be better to get the person drinking to understand that they cannot rely on anyone else for their happiness.
I agree entirely with Celebrian about not taking away the love and emotional support though - that's the whole essence, I think, of detaching with love (which I think is different from tough love) - very, very difficult though.
Fee -
Message 22
Posted by kittismum (U2266865) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
WOW, Thank you all so much for your support.
It turns out that the appointment at the Docs is for next Weds so She will have to cancel that and make one for tomorrow, that gives me time to decide whether to get in touch with the Doc myself and if so - how.
It seems as if she can go for weeks without drinking and then just binges, I have tried to figure out what triggers it but am still not 100% sure, it could be one of two things. Should I mention this to her? I don't want to make things worse and if it is one of the things I'm thinking off then there is nothing much I can do about it except let her know that I DO love her as much as her sibling. I am so out of my depth, but will be eternally grateful for all you help. Thank You, . -
Message 23
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:58 GMT, in reply to Gwensmumsyoungest in message 22
Gwensmumsyoungest,
speaking as one who was alcoholic in her late teens and early twenties, I'd say what I'd do in your situation, were it one of my nieces, is simply to wrap her up in a huge hug and say "I'm not happy about your drinking, love, you know that - but nothing will ever stop me loving you just as much as I can".
It's a very lonely place, alcoholism.
Laura -
Message 24
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
OK
Gwen
I am going to say something that I have said before but find I need to say again.
Binge drinkers are not to me mixed up with continual heavy drinkers who live on a base line of booze. Stop her drinking . Cold turkey will not happen and she will not suffer seizures. As you say she already goes for long periods without a drink.
She should simply abstain and be done with it.
I am getting a bit concerned that so many people are more or less saying carry on with the drinking stopping could kill you.
That is the case with consumers of the 24/7 variety and there are methods of stopping under medical supervision with absolutely NO alcohol.
I am sure both Fee who has experience of a loved one and Laura would agree with this . I have been aware that recently these stories of seizuers and sudden death are actually putting people off the need to stop.
Fear of drinking V fear of dying from no drink.
If someone has issues then they need treatment from a centre or their GP. Ultimately however it is they that must face the demon.
Show her your love and concern. Get her to a Doctor. Phone AA or AlAnon now. Remember you will need support too.
If she has periods drink free try to remove the triggers and the alcohol from her reach. Empty your cupboards my dear. The only fit your DD will have is no ready access to a bottle.
Do get help for yourself first as you will find a wealth of information that will guide you to help you daughter more effectively.
Phone you local hospital both the General and Mental Health Hospitals . They will tell you what is available in your locality.
I still think a call to the AA or Al Anon will be a great place to start. -
Message 25
Posted by Eileen (U2438659) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:03 GMT, in reply to Gwensmumsyoungest in message 22
Hello GMY. I just wanted to reiterate what others have said about talking to the doctor. We had a long-term situation with my brother (who was alcoholic) and I think the doctor found it useful to have wider information on a number of occasions. I would be confident that s/he'd only use the information to explore or verify some issues in order to support the patient, and that confidentiality would not be breached.
My siblings also did this when they were worried about my mother's mental state. He called round to see her and assess her for himself. -
Message 26
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:13 GMT, in reply to Mrs Ozarch in message 24
Mrs O, I do see what you mean by someone delaying stopping "in case I have a seizure" - BUT it isn't only 24/7 drinkers who can get major problems...
I now would NEVER let anyone I care about stop, whatever their pattern, without a GPs' advice.
I'm seeing what it does. "Wet brain" they call it and it is like Alzheimer's in terms of watching the person you used to know disappear into a stranger.
Four days of phone calls detailing the search for a missing pensioner, the tiredness, the way the A has been kept awake by the police helicopters, everything, every detail, all quite normal, not making a drama, just to explain why they sounded tired on the first morning of it all, the sadness that the old person was not found alive, the way the whole community worked together to help search, what this frtiend said, what that friend did...
And then when I phoned police HQ, no missing person at all.
We've been able to identify dozens and dozens of other incidents. At one point, a friend R was coincidentally sitting outside the A's flat when the A on the phone told me they had to go and answer the door, came back and said it was someone just asking if the house-number was this or that, looking for the other household in the building... nothing dramatic, just a normal un-interesting interruption... only R said nobody went to the door while R was in the car waiting for R's son to finish his piano lesson nearby.
Descriptions of taking neighbour's two dogs for a walk along a specific road... but that road was temporarily dug up with no footpath access...
Oh it's hard to explain but this person is half in reality and half in a world they fully believe; they genuinely think these things have happened, it's not lying, but something called "confabulation".
We can't accept anything as true.
It's not anything they can be hospitalised for - but it makes them near-impossible to live with, or to be close to. Any arrangement to meet is changed dozens of times, so it takes perhaps 10 or 15 days to meet, from first effort - and we can never know if the washing-machine really did need repairing or if the A's work did call them in for a different shift... we know that someone who never did lie, never did that self-dramatisation stuff, is suddenly now living endless numbers of un-true events, most of them really minor.
The person is shrinking, inside the shell. Someone is there who sounds totally normal - unless you happen to know that the person never went missing, that the road was closed, that the weather was sunny, whatever...
I don't know when the point comes when they are so delusional under this psychosis that they can't live alone, but they are still drinkig, still denying there is any problem, still convinced everyone is ganging up on them...
So to suggest seeing a GP is just sensible...
Laura -
Message 27
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
the A on the phone told me they had to go and answer the door, came back and said it was someone just asking if the house-number was this or that, looking for the other household in the building... nothing dramatic, just a normal un-interesting interruption... only R said nobody went to the door Ìý
That could be a white lie to take a break from the phone call as much as confusion. I've done the same myself, as it might be less hurtful than saying, I don't want to talk to you at the moment. Not sure I'd have made up that particular story, but I've certainly had door-to-door sales people that no one outside the house would have seen... -
Message 28
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:28 GMT, in reply to Bearhug in message 27
Yes, bearhug, but when someone you've known for decades starts suddenly coming up with things ALL the time, many of which you can prove not to have happened - it's beyond a white lie or two - they really have got "wet brain", not just by this but by a number of other things.
I mean, people are forgetful but if someone has Alzheimer's there's a difference, isn't there?
Sorry, gwensmumsyoungest - didn't mean to take over your thread with gloom and doom!
But involving a GP is the best idea, to be on the safe side. All it needs is supplemental thiamine, either capsules or intra-venously, and the whole problems can be avoided in nearly all cases.
Laura -
Message 29
Posted by Prof Pepita in Wonderland (U3101721) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
I would echo Laura's wise advice, GMY. The scenario she describes may be a small risk, but if a visit to the doctor and a prescription for soem pills etc. can help to safeguard against such a risk (or the other risk of seizures),then it seems like a sensible precaution to take.
All the best with this. -
Message 30
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:38 GMT, in reply to Gwensmumsyoungest in message 1
A rare poster hopping in, having lived with an alcoholic for five years...
Remember (as Laura once pointed out) that when the cabin crew run through the safety instructions they stress that BEFORE helping anyone else you MUST make sure your oxygen mask, lifebelt, whatever, is in place.
Or as we say at Al-Anon, "let it begin with me".
Someone else's drinking does not need to destroy or rule your life. Detaching with love does not need to mean leaving or abandoning the person, but it does mean making sure that their drinking does not take you over. If it does, alcohol will make your life as unmanageable as it is making theirs.
Each person will interpret the above differently according to how they live and who the drinker is, but I think that if there are two lives taken over by alcohol it makes it far harder for the drinker to stop.
My drinker never did stop, but I did not cause it (she drank for thirty-five years before we met), and I could neither control it or cure it.
I would echo whoever it was said that there is a difference between binge drinking and being unable to go 24 hours without alcohol, as also between drinking far too much in social settings and drinking alone to escape from life, though the first could, I guess (I don't know) lead to the second.
There is help out there, and there is help here. -
Message 31
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Hi DD - nice to see you around
< Detaching with love does not need to mean leaving or abandoning the person, but it does mean making sure that their drinking does not take you over.>
Has anyone seen Boots or Locki - they have the parent's eye view of this that might help GMY -
Message 32
Posted by Judith Hearne (U7775397) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Hang on. From what GMY said, Korsakoff's, while frightening, is not going to be an issue here. Let's keep this specific.
This is a young girl who, for whatever reason, is intermittently drinking far too much and for longer than one evening.
GMY, do what you decide is best. And as others have said, make sure you look after yourself. Adn show your daughter you love her regardless. I'd only add, please, don't label her yet. Not suggesting you would, but it's so easily done.. "My daughter" one day, becomes "My problem daughter" the next..
Much sympathy.. -
Message 33
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:20 GMT, in reply to Judith Hearne in message 32
Hang on. From what GMY said, Korsakoff's, while frightening, is not going to be an issue here. Let's keep this specific.
This is a young girl who, for whatever reason, is intermittently drinking far too much and for longer than one evening.Ìý
My point stands, though, Judith - it's not ONLY Korsakoff's and it's not ONLY 24/7 drinkers. A whole range of damage can be done, whether the person is a binger or a steady drinker, whether they are young or old, whatever. We aren't medically-trained and we don't know the person's medical history.
That's why a GP is a good idea.
I agree about not labelling, but frankly if someone I knew was sitting about half-dressed unable to fidn the loo in a hosue they knew well and then drunk again by next afternoon, and this is a pattern over some period of time, and they've apparently lost their home because of it, then frankly I'd say talkign to a GP is a very good place to start.
Laura -
Message 34
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Mrs O - You are right, my husband did just stop - in fact, he did just stop on quite a number of occasions - it was the staying stopped that often didn't last more than a week or so. I'm not sure quite where you draw the dividing line between someone like that and what gets described as a binge drinker. He was clearly not physically dependent in any sense (he never got shaky, for example, unlike my troubled colleague) and just stopping did not ever cause him any problems - in fact, I only encountered the possibility that it could be dangerous relatively recently (so it's as well that he wasn't in a state in which he needed to withdraw gradually).
He did, however see a GP very early on in his attempts to get sober (about six years before it actually happened) and on at least one subsequent occasion and I would always suggest it - apart from anything else, it is a good way of finding out what help is available locally to support you. Excessive use of alcohol is unlikely to have done the rest of your health much good and getting checked out is sensible.
GMY - you can throw the alcohol in the house away if you want to - but it won't necessarily make any difference. All it achieved in my husband's case was I practically became tee-total for a number of years when I really didn't need to be.
Al Anon always suggests not making any hasty decisions about what you want to do about things. I think I'd recommend just getting information and thinking about the various possibilities. It's unlikely that anything you do or don't do in the immediate future will make any longterm difference one way or the other.
Keep posting here if it helps.
Fee -
Message 35
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Wednesday, 17th June 2009
Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:17 GMT, in reply to Fee in message 34
Could I echo Fee's
It's unlikely that anything you do or don't do in the immediate future will make any longterm difference one way or the other Ìý
At first glance that looks hopeless but it is really the opposite. We can't do much (or anything) about someone else's drinking, but paradoxically looking after ourselves first and refusing to have our lives taken over is the only thing that may (emphasise *may* ) eventually make a difference. -
Message 36
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
I starte binge drinking when I had a miscarriage of a much wanted baby, things got worse and worse as I had 5 more miscarriages before i had my daughter, I didn't realise at the time that I was suffering from depression which drinking makes worse.
I very nearly lost my home, marriage and kids because of it.....the turning point for me was when OH got so peed off with our so called home life that he took himself and the boys away for 2 weeks hols in Cornwall without me, he said he and the boys needed a break from me and the way i carring on.
During this time I had been on more than one binge the upshot of which was I fell down the stairs in our old home and ended up with a compound fracture of the ankle and heel wich needed an op to put in a steel plate and pins to keep ankle and heel in place for life, a constant reminder of the drinking.
I had to stay in Hospital for four weeks as my OH REFUSED to have me home, he told the doctor's why and it was than that things started to improve for all of us as I got the help I needed.
Looking back now I know what I was doing and I hate myself for what I put the family through and I realise how lucky I am to have turned the corner and made a recovery, the ting is I could go for months and NOT drink than go mad and get through a bottle of wiskey a day for a week at a time.
There IS light at the end of the tunnel but it's not going to happen overnight, your daughter Gwen is going to have to face up to WHY she's drinking sooner or later but she's the only one who can do that.
You and your family HAVE to stand back from her and be tough, tell her you all love her but hate what she's doing to not only herself but the family, get support for yourselves so you can better deal with her because if you don't you'll be no use to her.
As other posters have mentioned get in touch with support groups they DO help and do such a great job, you'll feel less alone. -
Message 37
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Just thought I'd say that there are some great posts on this thread - I've put a link to it in the ordinary Alcohol Concerns thread (this month at so that people there who tend only to look at that thread don't miss this.
GMY, gigglemahanaz, anyone else posting on this thread - hope to see you on that thread at some point.
Fee -
Message 38
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Just to add to my above post a message of hope, I haven't touched a drink for five years now and the depression is under control, that's not to say I DON'T want a drink, I could kill for one at times but I don't as I know I'll lose all I hold dear and the depression will be worse than ever.
I do go to pubs but I have soft drinks now and realise I don't HAVE to drink to enjoy myeslf or to forget RL and it's problems, those same problems will still be there drunk or sober!!
It's hard all round as it's not just the drinker that is going through the mill bu the family as well.
All I will say now is GOOD LUCK and I do so hope your daughter gets and accepts help, DON'T FORGET YOURSELF THOUGH! -
Message 39
Posted by Babs (U12089863) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Fee and DD - I agree entirely. As my husband's drinking got worse, I tried anything and everything to make him stop. I spent countless hours searching the house for his stash (the places he hid drink, you wouldn't believe...although you probably would). I tried speaking to his GP (who refused to see me) - all it did was antagonise my OH. I even put every single item of his footwear (including slippers) in my car boot when I left for work, so he couldn't walk up the shop for more booze. I arranged a home GP visit and then hid outside on a cold January morning so I could then let her in the house....it didn't work. She talked to him, he just refused to listen - and I was castigated for having called her out. It caused a rift between us and he never trusted me after that.
I threw away any drink I found. All it did was make him find ever more ingenious hiding places.
None of the above worked. All it achieved was to cause me more pain, stress, rows with OH. I finally gave up in the end, and accepted it. Wish I'd done it sooner - I had a final two weeks of peace, and oddly, the only emotion I was left with for my husband, was just love. No more anger. I had nothing else to feel for him, just love, and some pity that he was in such a dreadful place in his mind.
In the early days he did go teetotal for periods of time, with no ill effects. Towards the end he tried cold turkey and really did suffer physically as well as mentally - this was on his own, with no medical help. His state of mind did become progressively more bizarre, to the point that he became someone I didn't know - a classic Jekyll and Hyde character, certainly not his old, true self. He said and did strange things and often became violent for no apparent reason. His true nature was loving and gentle.
GMY, I'd agree with the other posters that you can't control or cure your daughter's habits, just be there for her, and as others have said, provide love if nothing else. The only thing you can control is your own response, so surround yourself with all the support you can. I wish you well - you're certainly not alone.
xx -
Message 40
Posted by Celebrian (U12324885) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
I threw away any drink I found. All it did was make him find ever more ingenious hiding places.Ìý Oh how true. My husband used to find all my hiding places and chuck away the booze, often putting the empty bottle back with a little note saying "I love you. Talk to me." It made me feel guilty as hell, but also mad and rebellious - desperate for drink, I'd go out and buy twice as much vodka and hide it better. Later, he stopped getting rid of it, although I always knew when he'd found it as it was in a slightly different position from when I left it (I wasn't so drunk I didn't notice!) Then I started feeling not angry, but just guilty, and determined to change. I hated making him miserable and putting my kids' lives at risk (driving them to school etc while p***ed). I hated myself and went to the doc, got help. Can't say it's been easy or that I stopped permanently - several relapses - but I felt better just knowing I wasn't alone or totally crazy, other people had been tehre too - same feeling as I had when finding this messageboard. I'm not a freak! Great!
I guess the point of this rambling is that you are not responsible for someone else's drinking - you didn't cause it, you can't cure or control it. Only they can do that but they need to know they are loved and supported. -
Message 41
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
I'm not a drinker and I don't know anyone who has such problems.
But this is my contribution.
I was recently watching a programme called 'Dating the Enemy'. In it, a man whose hobbies included triathalon and jogging etc. had to date a woman who worked in London and who went out drinking every night. The deal was for four days. For the first two nights, he went out with her in London.
He was shocked by how much she drank. She thought she was having a good time and told him not to be such a wet blanket.
Then he took her to where he lived. The Lake District I think. Anyway, he then gave her a wetsuit and invited her to join him in a swim in a lake. She bravely did so.
Then he challenged her to an aerial assault course. (What a prat for thinking this is a suitable date.) Anyway, despite her fear of heights, and despite protesting at the beginning, she very courageously did so and at the end, she said she'd actually enjoyed it. (He, by the end, was beginning to develop collywobbles.)
Anyway, they met up at the end to discuss their experience.
She said that she had realised that she didn't need to drink to have a good time. That she could do other things. That there were other possibilities and that she would definitely think about them.
I thought that took some courage.
So....
Maybe you could organise some activities that would break the habit of just drinking as an activity? Could you maybe ask her to go swimming with you? Or cycling? Or just out for a walk? Maybe you could make it feel that you need her company. Not the other way around. Cinema visit? Theatre? (There are some good amateur productions - it needn't be London West End prices.) -
Message 42
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:10 GMT, in reply to Dame Celia Molestrangler in message 41
Love isn't enough. Activities aren't enough. Therapy isn't enough. AA isn't enough.
Nothing is enough, nothing will do anything, until the drinker decides that there is more in stopping than in continuing to drink.
My A has lost everything, pretty well, family, friends, partner(s), job...has had alcoholic gastritis, seizures, etc etc cont p94. And because she drinks because life is unbearably painful all this just confirms her belief.
No, she has never tried out what life without drink might be like. She "just knows" it would be even worse. -
Message 43
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
How sad DD that A see's no hope at all in anything only the bottom of a bottle and how inmeasurable sad for you to see A go down this long and lonley path of self destruction, I am SO sorry for you love and am thinking of you (not much help I know!).
-
Message 44
Posted by kittismum (U2266865) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Well I've done it, I've written to the Doctor and told her the facts just in case she wasn't aware, DD has another appointment on Tues to finally check if she can go back to work and as nothing was said today and she is in a good mood with me, I can only assume that the Doctor respected my wishes at the appointment DD had today and did not tell DD that I had written.
I shall wait and see what happens. Thank you all so much for your help, you think you are the only one in the world who has these problems and it turns out that there is always someone who is going through it too, and is willing to help. Must go now as I am beginning to blub and the keyboard doesn't work properly if it's wet. Thank you all. I'll keep in touch on the other thread if that's OK. -
Message 45
Posted by Celebrian (U12324885) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Very sad DD, and painful for you to watch I'm sure. So hard to break the cycle. It really is a vicious circle, everything seems pointless so you drink to blot it out, and then things just look more and more pointless..... No thing is enough, as you say. Stick with her and love her despite everything.
xC -
Message 46
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Celebrian, there comes a point, I think, when someone might have to recognise that for the sake of their own health they cannot stick with the person - love them despite everything, yes, but not stay with them - and they shouldn't, in my opinion, feel any guilt if they find themselves in that position.
Fee -
Message 47
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
See you there GMY whenever you feel like it (and anyone else as well).
Fee -
Message 48
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 18th June 2009
Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:51 GMT, in reply to Fee in message 46
Unfortunately so, Fee. And it is pretty clear that my A blames me for everything and wouldn't want to see me anyway. But it is all in the past as far as I am concerned, even if it does hurt sometimes. -
Message 49
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Friday, 19th June 2009
DD sometimes ALL you can do is walk away no matter how painful it is for you.
As an uncle of mine used to say "There's some so deaf they can't SEE", and after my drinking spree's I understand now exactly what he ment.
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or Ìýto take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Ö÷²¥´óÐã iD
Ö÷²¥´óÐã navigation
Ö÷²¥´óÐã links
Ö÷²¥´óÐã © 2014 The Ö÷²¥´óÐã is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.