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Film Club July 09 - Mike Leigh
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Message 1.聽
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Mike Leigh came crashing into my life on a school night at the height of punk in '77 with the incomparable Abigail's Party, the topic of most conversation at my 6th form college the next day. Many catch phrases were immediately adopted from it, it was undeniably funny, but I remember the underlying feeling of discomfort it left me with, an aspect which for me is a Leigh hallmark.
I had missed Nuts in May in '76, which I think is superb, (loved how absolutely perfectly he lampooned the Conran stripped pine granola knitted yoghourt worthy but idiotic brigade) but caught up years later on the rest of his Play For Today oeuvre, including Who's Who ('79) , full of Leigh severe class discomfort, and the perfect 主播大秀 Sweet 主播大秀 ('82), the precursor of Life Is Sweet ('91) which threaded Timothy Spall through its lineage, happily for me.
His work up to Life Is Sweet I caught up with after the fact, and I sometimes bemoan the fact that I didn't see them at the time of release, but as slices of social commentary, they stand up to scrutiny perhaps because some of his characters are timeless and some aspects of them are universal despite being soaked in Leigh's particular brand of working class Englishness.
I loved Meantime ('84) - I am a huge fan of Tim Roth's work anyway - but don't remember feeling strongly about the Short & Curlies (87), despite the brilliant Thewlis's first appearance (I think ) in Leigh's work.
I don't remember Four Days in July ('85) very well although it was one of his most factual, delving into Northern Ireland and upping a class.
Life Is Sweet ('91) and Naked (93) really rocked my world, especially the way the shocking Naked followed the more gentle Life Is Sweet. I felt that LIS was a comedy, with a dark underbelly (again the ML hallmark), and Naked was one dark underbelly with flashes of humour, and black, black humour at that. I think i've seen both of these films at least ten times each, insisting that anyone who stayed with me in NYC watched LIS.
My homesickness in NYC had quite a lot to do with my growing obsession with Leigh, and I savoured every perfect observation from these two films. The stupid but kind mother, again a brilliant Steadman performance, in LIS, her gentle acceptance of her husband's imperfections (another brilliant Jim Broadbent performance), and the suburban insanity of Timothy Spall's chef character (sorry, patron/chef). I remember crying during Steadman's speech to the anorexic Horrocks' character about how the hopeless purchase of the decrepit caravan showed how her father had not given up on life. I didn't like Horrocks' voice in that, but her angst-ridden teen was a stroke of genius especially against the superb Thewlis.
I bought a book about Leigh, which I can't remember the name of and can't find, but will look it up, describing the process of LIS and Naked and how Leigh cut some scenes of Thewlis and promised to make it up to him in Naked. He certainly did that.
The darkness of the Thewlis monologue, the clever hopelessness he inhabited, the misanthropy turned to emotional violence all took my breath away. The fact that Leigh apparently just gave Thewlis free reign fascinated me even more. I mean free reign more than his famous direction of actors ad-libbing.
I think the comedic passages in that (Claire Skinner's nurse character coming back from Zimbabwe stands out for its brilliantly and slowly realised chaos) almost give hysterical light relief after some of the sexual violence scenes.
I really don't know when to stop with Naked, but I have to stop here, appropriately enough, as I have to get on with my day, but would like to return to it, as I think it's massive and the rest of Leigh's work, up to date, which include some disappointments for me.
Obviously we're going to touch on his supposed misogyny.
Thanks for your patience everyone and apologies for my lateness.
Basia -
Message 2
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Cheers, Bash. Look forward to the discussion on this. Mike Leigh is one of those directors whose films I generally find I'm not able to enjoy/appreciate as much as I feel I should: not simply because of how highly he is rated in the film world, but because they are the types of films I feel I would naturally enjoy, and I like his working method (allowing the company to work out the story and scenes over time during rehearsal). For that reason, I've got several of his films on my shelves which I've never got around to watching. I'll try to rectify that while we're discussing his films.
Of his films, I've not seen that many: the first was probably Secrets and Lies, which I only managed to make it about half an hour in to (not because I hated it but because I wasn't in the mood at the time and put it on one side, never getting back to it); ditto Life Is Sweet (because I had to go out and couldn't get it to record). I remember Naked being on Channel 4 in 1995 and just thinking that I couldn't bear to watch it at that time, but feeling that I really ought to see it soon; I finally watched it at a party held in the flat in which it was shot a few years ago when a friend was living there: it was projected onto a wall above a small shrine containing items from the film still in the flat, for example one of the mugs. I couldn't stand the film.
I watched Vera Drake at the cinema; went with some trepidation, because of my relationship with Leigh's films, but actually enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. Particularly because in this film the acting throughout was naturalistic and excellent. It's something that has surprised me in previous films, given his emphasis on actors and the long periods of rehearsal and development: that, apart from some of the lead roles, some of the performances are over-theatrical and/or wooden - I'm thinking of some of the roles in Naked and Life Is Sweet. And, to my mind, he has been, for much of his career, more of a theatre-style, rather than cinematic, director. Anyway, Vera Drake was excellently done, although perhaps not an ultimately satisfying film.
Since then I finally managed to catch up with Abigail's Party and Nuts in May. These were far more enjoyable, although still infected with the heavy-handedness I've found in all the films of his I've watched. For example, Roger Sloman's gasket-blowing in Nuts In May, and the death in Abigail: the same effect could have been had and the same dramatic message got across with a lighter touch, in my view. I think again that's perhaps because of his background in the theatre, where grandes gestes are necessary to make sure the audience can catch what is going on.
I'm looking forward to this discussion, and hope it will help me to appreciate Leigh's films more, because I do feel to a degree that I am missing out.
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Message 3
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Hi Bash, thank you for introducing this month's Film Club thread on Mike Leigh. I have to confess I came late to Leigh. I saw Abigail's Party when it was first on television, and hugely enjoyed it in a cringey sort of way. After that though I became beguiled by American cinema and Leigh seemed rather hard work by comparison.
I've been catching up with his work over the last few years, though. Since you've ended your first post with Naked, I shan't mention yet his later films, which I know better, and two of which are among my all time favourites.
I like the way Leigh tends to use the same actors in his films, especially Timothy Spall.I also like the way that, although his films are always recognisably his, they can be very different in character from others.
It sounds as if Naked is a film not to be missed and I am sorry I haven't seen it.
Doesn't surprise me that Leigh has been accused of mysogyny. I'd always thought he was just plain curmudgeonly to and about everybody though (exc. mark).
Back a bit later when I've watched Nuts in May.
Rusty -
Message 4
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:20 GMT, in reply to Basia in message 1
Thqnks, Bqsiq: Qs zou cqn see fro茅 the kezboqrd, I q茅 visiting Qged Ps qnd yill post lqter yhen I cqn use q nor茅ql French kezboqrd I q茅 used to.
Secrets and Lies is the onlz Leigh I've yatched but yhat a fil茅!
See zou all later (and I'll post links etc: yhen mz netbook has charged up and Aged P kicks 茅e off his pooter.) -
Message 5
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
I'll do it, Eyore.
Previous sessions:
*2006*
September - Preston Sturges F2693944?thread=3478441
October - Those Were the Days: A cinema goer's trip down memory lane F2693944?thread=3573153
November - Almodovar F2693944?thread=3679179
December - Fred & Ginger F2693944?thread=3748217
*2007*
January - Screwball US comedies of the 1930s F2693944?thread=3819522
February - Powell & Pressburger F2693944?thread=3898224
March - Film parodies F2693944?thread=3979158
April - Ealing comedies F2693944?thread=4078333
May - Gainsborough films F2693944?thread=4170064
June - Film noir and neo-noir F2693944?thread=4272114
July - Yasukiro Ozu F2693944?thread=4364674
August - Desert island films F2693944?thread=4490375
September - Hitchcock: Early years (1926-44) F2693944?thread=4580949 , Glory years (1945-57) F2693944?thread=4604887 and Later years (1958-76) F2693944?thread=4627367
October - Life and films of Leslie Howard F2693944?thread=4696607
November - Robert Altman F2693944?thread=4792081
December - Melodramas F2693944?thread=4887407
*2008*
January - Ernst Lubitsch F2693944?thread=4997926
February - Sword and sandal epics F2693944?thread=5105863
March - Shakespeare on film F2693944?thread=5215377
April - Mancunian film studios F2693944?thread=5348478
May - Robert Altman F2693944?thread=5463712
June - Westerns F2693944?thread=5593880
August - DIDs: films that got you into film F2693944?thread=5786988
September - War films: the soldier鈥檚 story F2693944?thread=5907024
October - War films: the civilian鈥檚 story F2693944?thread=5990379
November - Women directors F2693944?thread=6080539
December - Christmas films F2693944?thread=6167516
*2009*
January - Bill Forsyth F2693944?thread=6238296
February - Stanley Kubrick F2693944?thread=6344975
March - Frank Capra F2693944?thread=6422685
April - Films about music F2693944?thread=6506133
May - Courtroom dramas F2693944?thread=6591078
June - Prison dramas F2693944?thread=6692548
July - Mike Leigh F2693944?thread=6787430
Forthcoming attractions:
15 August - DIDs: Your 8 Turkeys (open session)
19 September - Films of Australia/New Zealand (mag_pie)
17 October - (not taken)
21 November 鈥 Geoffrey Unsworth and the cinematographer鈥檚 art (Septimus Harding)
We need people to volunteer to open up the club in future months, otherwise the club will cease to function. So, if you enjoy cinema and you see a subject that hasn't been covered yet, please volunteer. You don't need to write an essay, just start a thread on the relevant day and introduce the subject. We're especially keen for new members to choose subjects to discuss, so don't be shy!
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Message 6
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Well, inspired by this thread, I dug out Secrets and Lies, which I've had on video for 11 years, and watched it. Fabulous. What a film. Thank you so much, Bash, for getting me to watch it at long last. Will discuss it when we get on to Leigh's later films.
'脰' -
Message 7
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Basia. I remember the night 'Abigail's Party' was viewed. I can still see myself in my sitting room absolutely riveted. The same aplies to 'Nuts In May'. There are not many TV programmes I can remember so vividly and remember where I was. The only other ones I think were Cathy Come 主播大秀 (Ray Brooks when he was divine) and another one with the actress who used to play Christine Hardman in Coronation Street. She played a single mother at her wit's end and gives her children drugged cocoa so they can all die together and end their misery. My God that was heartbreaking and I bawled and bawled as indeed I did at the end of Cathy. Of course, I had small children then and my marriage was breaking down so was in a vulnerable state. it was all powerful stuff.
Can anyone remember the name of the play with the Christine Hardman actress? -
Message 8
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Basia. It's interesting that you link your homesickness with Leigh. When my son first lived in America he was obsessed with Mike Leigh, especially 'Secrets and Lies'. I assume it represented England to him. Didn't Americans have a problem with the realism of Mike Leigh's films? They seem to like to see life dressed up rather than down.
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Message 9
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Locki, I can't help with the name of the play you're referring to, but here is a list of things the Christine Hardman actress (who is, bizarrely, called Christine Hargreaves) has appeared in: Hopefully you'll be able to work out which one is the one you're thinking of.
'脰' -
Message 10
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 26th July 2009
Oh thanks for that Leaping Badger. I'm wondering if it was a Wednesday Play. I will examine the list more thoroughly tomorrow. I must go to bed now. Thanks again.
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Message 11
Posted by mag_pie (U2678603) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:26 GMT, in reply to furiouslocki in message 10
I can mirror furiouslocki's experience of Americans generally liking more upbeat movies, while recognising this is a big generalisation. I was living in small-town America when 'Naked' came out and dragged some friends to the nearest big city to see it, citing Leigh as a wonderful director. They were all a bit traumatised and, even now, question any of my film recommendations, however innocuous!
Happy Go Lucky was disappointing in a way. I kept expecting a gritty plot development. Am I the only one to feel this movie was not up to the usual high Leigh standard, no sharp edges?
mags -
Message 12
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Secrets and Lies is my favourite Leigh film. It also seems to be the one most often shown on television, so I have seen it several times. I particularly liked the awkward, inarticulate affection between Timothy Spall's character and his teenage niece and nephew. It was a sad film in a way but without the bleakness of a few of Leigh's other films. Although, that last scene.......I dunno.
Locki, you've reminded me of how good drama used to be on television, well 主播大秀 I suppose. Thinking of Dennis Potter in particular, but so many others too. Perhaps there really *was* a golden age of television.
Rusty -
Message 13
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Mags, that's how I feel too. Two words...Shane Meadows.
Shouldn't be here. I would have caught up on Leigh's later work last night but got my blackberry stolen so spent time sorting that.
I actually didn't love Topsy Turvy either. Bums, gotta go to work. Please don't wait for me to discuss his later stuff.
Leaps, glad you had a good time with that. -
Message 14
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Topsy Turvy was weird, and not in a good way.
I can't see how it fits into Leigh's, um, oeuvre; even wondered if I would have recognised it as one of his films if I hadn't known before. I thought it was arch and pointless.
Pity. Waste of a great cast: Timothy Spall, Jim Broadbent, Lesley Manville.
Rusty -
Message 15
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:08 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 14
Well thanks to this thread I've finally realised who the "beardie in some of MIke Leighs films is" as I was trying to find the film I remember watching during a difficult period of my life as beardie reminded me a bit of the person who is now my OH
Film was High Hopes and it's only Phil "shake me up Judy" Davis! SOmehow have never connected the two -
Message 16
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 17
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Monday, 27th July 2009
OOOH E. Yore, was doing so well until the last line - couldn't decifer that (Dichotomy maybe?).
Cathy come home was simply brilliant, so, so hard to watch. Was directed by Ken Loach tho wasn't it?
The only Mike Leigh film i can really recall watching is Abigail's party. I can still remember how tense my flatmates and I were watching it. Just brilliant all round. Having seen some of Leigh's films mentioned on her i will def try to watch some more
kris -
Message 18
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Ok deciphered the text now, and absolutely agrre with you E. Yore
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Message 19
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Where did ya post go E. Yore? You have to put it back Mods, or else it looks like i'm talking to myself in my posts...
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Message 20
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Hahahahah E. Yore, have you been modded bcos u didn't write in 'English'? That's hilarious
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Message 21
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Monday, 27th July 2009
Yes, yes, that's it Rusty, Topsy Turvy was indeed arch, perfect description.I was lost during the first 30 mins as to why he bothered to take it on, and then I got irritated and bored and didn't finish it.it abslutely flummoxed me.
Secrets and Lies I have to see again, because there were fine moments but I'm left with a memory of it being Not As Good As, but I was still holding up the Life Is Sweet/Naked yardstick then.
Has anyone seen Career Girls? It was weak, but rather lovely, and I love the two actresses and was shocked to read Katrin Cartlidge died several years ago of some awful sounding thing.Lesley Sharp is a marvel and she engenders the same kind of feelings in me as Kathy Burke does, but in a gentler way. She excelled in Naked.
Leigh's casting has always been a source of joy for me. And his loyalty to certain actors tells you something. What that is I'm not sure, but would love to read more about it.
No idea what happened with him and Steadman, I just know they're not married any longer but what a great body of work she gave him/he got out of her. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.
Back to Career Girls for a second; I love the bittersweet subject matter, the two friends coming together after years, one who has done well and is living a slightly fancier life than the other and how normal that is and that is what he does so well, despite the theatricality of some of his work.
I've always loved slice of life stuff and kitchen sink dramas as was raised on the likes of the L-Shaped Room etc so Leigh was a natural progression for me. Ditto Loach. -
Message 22
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Monday, 27th July 2009
I was predisposed to like Secrets and Lies because I am a sucker for films about family dynamics.
I've not seen Career Girls but I do remember the luke warm reviews. I see Lynda Steadman was in it - Alison S and Leigh's daughter, perhaps.
It's interesting that a few directors like to work with the same actors on many of their films. Woody Allen springs to mind. Very different in character of course, but both very intense.
I was talking to a friend the other day about the L-Shaped Room and other British films of around the same period: Saturday Night, Sunday Morning, This Sporting Life, The Loneliness of..... Great films.
Rusty -
Message 23
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Tuesday, 28th July 2009
Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:47 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 22
Since I was so rudely modded by someone who doesn't understand just how hard it is for a touch typist in a hurry to type on a totally different foreign keyboard, I shall repost the gist of my post upthread:
1. I had no idea Topsy-Turvy was a Mike Leigh film - and like others found it peculiar; what was the purpose of the Paris bordello scenes? I felt one did have to have a major Gilbert & Sullivan gene to stick through the film despite the stellar cast.
2. Cathy come home was mentioned up-thread: I've never been able to watch it when it is on French tv as it is too harrowing (put me in the American upbeat camp - life is too depressing as it is) but do wonder whether the present dichotomy (well done krisjp for deciphering that) between general release films (= better, more expensive, "real" directors) and made for tv films can still hold water when there are directors who work well in both media and where there are some extraordinary films released to tv (and then re-released in the cinema when the tv release proves popular). -
Message 24
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Tuesday, 28th July 2009
It was catpeed, Eyore, not modded. It'll more than likely pop up again once a mod has had chance to look at it.
'脰' -
Message 25
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Tuesday, 28th July 2009
Mabel, I couldn't place Phil Davis "the bardie one" till I looked him up. Just looked him up and of course I know him from Leigh films. I see that he will be in another Leigh film (untitled)which is due for release next year.
krisjp, now we can see you haven't been talking to yourself (excl mark).
TT was definiely an aberration I think, E Yore. I am not a G & S fan either but I know people who are and they were equally unimpressed by the film.
I know the feeling of having to brace onself before watching certain films. There have been many I am very glad I have seen (Monster's Ball, for instance) but I'm not sure I would feel up to seeing them again. The older I get the more sensitive I seem to be. I watched Cathy Come 主播大秀 without flinching, though it did make me angry. Ditto Edna The Inebriate Woman which came out roughly the same time irrc.
Rusty -
Message 26
Posted by Lemon Sabotage (U9577550) on Tuesday, 28th July 2009
Don't think Lynda Steadman is related to Alison.
She and ML have two sons, one of whom is called Leo, which I find bizarre if his surname is Leigh. (might not be though).
Alison got together with actor Michael Elwyn when they were making some WW2 drama, but I'm not sure whether she and ML had already split up or not.
I must be the only one in here who loved Topsy Turvy, although I agree it's very untypical of his work.
I found "All Or Nothing" a bit too bleak even for me, although all the acting was as good as ever.
And in "Secrets and Lies" I just couldn't get my head round the fact that I thought that a child with one white parent would surely be much lighter-skinned than Marianne Jean-Baptiste? (I could be wrong though).
"Life Is Sweet" is probably my favourite-ever film of that genre. And I can't hear the name Keith without repeating it in the voice of Candice-Marie from "Nuts In May", which can be embarrassing sometimes.
Eddie Marsan is proving to be one of the new stalwarts--brilliant actor. -
Message 27
Posted by greensparklybejewelledone (U2283175) on Tuesday, 28th July 2009
Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:38 GMT, in reply to Lemon Sabotage in message 26
Can I sneak in here to say, love Mike Leigh, adored Abigail's Party and Nuts in May (excrucitating), liked Life is Sweet and even enjoyed Topsy Turvy (v much from the G&S point of view - had no idea it was Mike Leigh) but hated Naked. In fact for the first time in my life I walked out of the cinema, though not from any sort of principled objection, just a violent personal reaction that I simply could not watch this film. Much too close to the bone. But that was then and this is now so perhaps I will give it another go. It also says something for the power of his cinematic skill that it would provoke that reaction in me when almost nothing else ever has.
I haven't seen Career Girls or Vera Drake, so will go on a Mike Leigh hunt pdq. Will have to reacquaint myself with Secrets and Lies too, as I honestly can't remember what I thought of it, or much about it.
gj
x -
Message 28
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Admirable GJ. I would do the same for a film from a director whose other films I liked, but won't be doing it in a hurry for the two films I've walked out of; Fried Green Codswallop and The Matrix. Heaven preserve us.
GJ, give this interview a whirl:
esp this one:
That's it. That's exactly how these type of films make me feel.
Unforch I can't get the clips, but I've just discovered Screenonline; so much better than the IMDB for my money:
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Message 29
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Oh joy. I've just found a play of his I've never seen, The Permissive Society:
I love the atmosphere of tv plays from this period and how shocking it was when Stoppard's Professional Foul was on fake location.
I remember this Second City Firsts series. 1975, just as Genesis were preparing to release A Trick of the Tail and John Lydon was still growing.
Blimey, you can watch Nuts In May and Abigail's Party on Youtube. -
Message 30
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
you can..
That's my Saturday evening sorted then.
Never could stomach Genesis once PG left. -
Message 31
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Ok, going to wrap it up for tonight but I've really enjoyed reading more in one night on Leigh than I ever did before.
Forgot to post his home page entry on Screenonlin:
This is a superb overview, and it touches on the charges of misogyny against him:
Really interesting that some people think he patronises his characters. I don't get that at all, I see great affection for most of them and no-one is spared a slight dig. I also don't see Naked as a misogynistic film, just that it has misogynistic characters, well, 3 of them, all hideous in different ways.
And finally, one of my favourite scenes from Naked:
and one from Life Is Sweet:
Basia -
Message 32
Posted by Ali-cat (U8666386) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Hi all, and thanks for this fascinating thread.
Enjoyed the clips, Bash, very much.
I saw Abigail's Party on the night of transmission, and if I'm honest, it scared me a little. I was mid-twenties, and it was a time when we all 'aspired' to dinner parties, being 'grown up' and all that sort of tosh. I remember watching this and cringing, and feeling definitely threatened. Weird reaction maybe, but it was a huge part of my maturing process at the time.
I will seek out more Mike Leigh to watch now, having read more about his work upthread.
Ali -
Message 33
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Oh wow Ali, that's great. What a fab post. I'd say his work was done then, excl mk. Great way of putting it and how fantastic to think of us all watching it at the time, at various stages of our lives and reacting quite differently...I thought that it made adults look idiotic, which is what they were after all, according to my late teen self.
By the way, has anyone seen Happy Go Lucky? That's my one film gap.
And I forgot to say how much I liked Hard Labour, his first tv play.
Is it ok sidetracking a bit into his plays? It does inform his later work very much, I'm happy to say.
I was reading the reviews to All Or Nothing and I winced a bit at the slight of caricaturing, so I think I need to see it again. Well, I could watch all his films again and again. In fact I think I'm going to watch Career Girls tonight, as I still have it on video. I think I'm one of two people in NYC who still has a video player. -
Message 34
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Oh, so much to watch and read here, but I'll have to wait till I'm back from my travels.
There's been no discussion about Vera Drake yet I see. Wonderful film, and Imelda Staunton was just amazing.
Back later.
Rusty -
Message 35
Posted by clint the fish with no name (U6574485) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
What a ninteresting thread, wish I was intelligent enough to join in the discussion. . . .Bookmarking for future perusal. . .
}<{("<~ -
Message 36
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Rusty, travel safely. And I just realised Vera Drake hasn't been discussed either, agree, great film.
This is fascinating, from the Wikipedia page on Vera Drake:
Had no idea. I have to go and think about natural reactions versus acting now.
A rainstorm has just passed so off to watch Career Girls. -
Message 37
Posted by plum the depths (U5587356) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
Wow I find that really interesting about Vera Drake and the improvised acting. That bit in the film when the police arrive and she, Imelda Staunton looks so shocked, unhappy and genuinely bewildered, blew my mind. My o/h and I spoke about it afterwards and both were amazed at her depth of acting. So, it was a genuine moment of shock. Really, really interesting. So often these types of moment are over done, too much angst and sighing but this was all in the eyes and watch again her throat, the spit seems to have dried in her mouth and she can't swallow properly. Well that's how I remember it, must admit I haven't seen in for a couple of years but that bit stayed with me.
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Message 38
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Wednesday, 29th July 2009
I watched VD last month while escaping th efamily preoccupation with bluddy sport.
I think that Leigh's faith in his actors to give the goods must be a great source of pride for his team.
I have always regarded Imelda Staunton as a stellar actress,this role just proved it.
The cinematography was quite superb as well.
I watched it in a tropical evening and yet I felt the cold damp chill of a London of the period seep into my very bones. -
Message 39
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 30th July 2009
Same here, except the tropical bit. -
Message 40
Posted by Ali-cat (U8666386) on Thursday, 30th July 2009
Hi Bash
I didn't know that about Vera Drake. I watched it and was mesmerised by Imelda Staunton, who played the role to perfection. Her bewilderment and innocence were beautifully portrayed, as were the outrage and non-comprehension of officialdom and also her family. The lack of any common ground within supposedly tight social and family groups is so excellently done, isn't it?
Must watch more of his work, I love uncomfortable dramas.
xx
Ali -
Message 41
Posted by Ali-cat (U8666386) on Thursday, 30th July 2009
Oh, and btw Bash, yes it is amazing to think that we were all watching it at the same time, and here we are yonks later discussing it. Just as if it were yesterday.
I seem to remember we were all wearing full length cotton skirts that year...
Thanks for the nice comment too. And yes, as you say, I'm sure he'd be pleased to realise that he scared the bejasus out of me.
xx
Ali -
Message 42
Posted by Lady Macbe席h - not without mustard (U550479) on Thursday, 30th July 2009
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:22 GMT, in reply to Ali-cat in message 41
I think Bash and I are in for some interesting discussions.
I hate, lathe and detest Mike Leigh's stuff with a passion. Self indulgent claptrap IMHO.
I was immediately put off by Abigail's Party which I thought lazy, and Nuts In May which was simply irritating. Disliked Secrets and Lies, but I caught the end of Vera Drake on TV and was surprised by it - but I did only see about 10 minutes. -
Message 43
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 30th July 2009
Ooh, bun fight over lunch at Bergdorf Goodman Lady M, excl mk. Funnily enough I can totally appreciate why someone dislikes Leigh's work, and pity them of course, and I know what you mean calling Abigail's Party lazy, and Nuts in May irritating but what about the two big ones, in my book, Life Is Sweet and Naked?
Sorry Honest, I missed this last night; great post. -
Message 44
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Monday, 10th August 2009
I just watched Allen's Hannah and Her Sisters and enjoyed the typical Allen discourse on the existence of God, particularly relishing the line, from the old NY Jewish father, "How do I know why there were Nazis? I don't even know how a can-opener works".
Also caught most of The Proposition, screenplay by the brilliant Mr Nick Cave, and was sharing soundtrack notes with Leaps in the Playlist.
Finally found my Career Girls and MEantime, so going to watch one of them tonight. Didn't even know I had Meantime. -
Message 45
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Monday, 10th August 2009
When are we going to discuss Mike Leigh's later films? Do you have some notes prepared for us, Bash, or is it a free-for-all?
'脰' -
Message 46
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Wednesday, 12th August 2009
I鈥檝e just watched a very interesting programme (on 主播大秀4)) of Mike Leigh being interviewed by Mark Lawson. There was a lot to take in, but here are some of the highlights:
Leigh has never forgotten his Northern roots (he was brought up in Salford), and the main reason his films are set in and around London is due to financial constraints 鈥 actors and crew tend to be London-based.
Lawson asked him if he had ever been tempted to make the occasional commercial film, like a rom.com., which would bring money in to fund the films he really wanted to make. Leigh said absolutely not - in fact, there had been potential backers from time to time who had offered him money with no-strings attached *except* for casting a Big Name: no offence to Johnny Depp or Julia Roberts, but no thanks. (The thought of these actors in a Mike Leigh film is sublime isn鈥檛 it?
Leigh also said that the entire budget for Topsy Turvy, his most expensive film, was less than Julia Robert鈥檚 fee for starring in 鈥淣otting Hill鈥, which was being made at around the same time.
Re Vera Drake: he said none of the characters, apart from Vera herself, knew about the abortions, and even she didn鈥檛 know that the last one she performed had gone disastrously wrong before she was arrested.
He also talked about the obsessional respectability of the 1950s (when VD was set), but said he understood it because that generation had been to hell and back, their world turned upside down by the War: if the choice seemed to be between anarchy and control, he couldn鈥檛 blame society for opting for the latter.
The interview didn鈥檛 touch on his alleged misogyny, but he did say that he was taken aback by critics (one of the sternest being Dennis Potter) who said that he was patronising to some of his characters.
I didn鈥檛 get the feeling that he was a misogynist or misanthrope, just very focussed ans serious, and I can imagine that he would not always be easily to live with.
Rusty
Rusty -
Message 47
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Wednesday, 12th August 2009
I like a lot of Woody Allen films, but there are also a few, mostly the later ones, that I just couldn't get on with. After Mighty Aphrodite, I kind of gave up.
A film club thread about him might be good though.
Rusty -
Message 48
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 13th August 2009
My eyes hurt reading that. Thought Shane (He Can Do No Wrong) Meadows was pushing it casting Ricky Tomlinson, Robert Carlyle and Kathy Burke in Once Upon a Time in the Midlands.
Leaps, sorry if you were waiting, but I believe I said upthread to please not wait and to pile in about his later films. My comments on them were perhaps too succinct then.
I watched Career Girls Again t'other night, and was instantly reminded why I thought it was weaker than his other work. It was Katrin Cartlidge's Donna Karan-esue beige duster coat. Ok,kidding, but it upset me, it dominated all the scenes it appeared in.
Leigh has been criticised for giving some of his actors ticks, can't remember what the expression was, something like rolling condition and I think I mentioned it up thread because it bothers me. In the review it mentioned the one that I really don't like, Jane Horrocks' voice in Life Is Sweet, and Katrin Catrlidge's in Naked. Funnily enough, it's her verbal tick in part of Career Girls that I find annoying, and also Brenda Blethyn's 'sweetheart' was masively overdoe in Secrets & Lies, imo.
Anyway, Mark Benton is heartbreakingly superb in Career Girls, I'd forgotten. Made me cry first time round.
I also hadn't noticed that there's a real two fingered salute to ridiculous men in the film, rather putting paid to the accusations of misogyny.
Ah, found it, it was Leigh's home page in Screen Online that mentions the rolling condition:
Rusty, I wish I could have seen that interview. I think Egghead's a good interviewer.
I'm baffled by this. -
Message 49
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Thursday, 13th August 2009
Basia, the interview is on my V+ Box and I haven鈥檛 managed to suss out how to record from that onto my DVD recorder (need one of my young nephews to show me). Anyway, I haven't deleted it so if I do manage to get it onto DVD I'll send it to you. It was followed by "Nuts in May", so I'd record that too.
Mark Lawson *can* be good and he was here; on the other hand, sometimes he can be a bit of a windbag and hog the interview.
This was quite a long, wide-ranging interview, which encompassed Mike Leigh's childhood and time at RADA. It was a bit disjointed in places - sentences breaking off, going off at a tangent and so on. While this made it more interesting and less 鈥渟et-piece鈥, it also meant that sometimes things weren't followed through. So, re the accusation of being patronising: I *think* Leigh was referring to class: he comes from a middle-class professional family, but his films are mostly about the working class even those some "aspire" to the middle class. Presumably that was what Dennis Potter et al were getting at. I can see I'll have to watch the interview again.
Interesting that you thought 鈥淐areer Girls鈥 one of his weakest films; the article in the link you give calls it 鈥渁 film that grows in stature as time passes鈥. Am intrigued now.
I know what you mean about Brenda Blethyn's "sweethearts", presumably one of those ticks you mentioned. Although I found it irritating, Cynthia was so anxious to please and to placate (except when it came to her sil) that it rang true imo.
I think 鈥淰era Drake鈥 was one of the best and most true films I have seen from Leigh or anyone else for that matter. Leigh said his films were ensemble pieces, and that was so obviously the case here. This is definitely a film I want to actually buy.
I haven鈥檛 seen Leigh鈥檚 last film 鈥淗appy Go Lucky鈥, but they showed a clip on the interview programme, and it looks seriously funny. Just looked it up and there is a dark undertone running through it (You don鈥檛 say? Ed.). Very much want to see it now.
Rusty -
Message 50
Posted by Lemon Sabotage (U9577550) on Thursday, 13th August 2009
Now that "Secrets and Lies" has come up again, does anyone have any opinions on what I mentioned in this thread some time ago, i.e. that I thought the casting of Marianne Jean-Baptiste seemed odd as I would have expected the offspring of Brenda Blethyn to be lighter-skinned, even though her father was black?
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