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Otherwise: Maintaining friendships
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by mars_bonfire (U9739850) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
I live outside the UK because of my OH's job. I belong to an expat group which stops me from feeling totally isolated. On the face of it, I appear to be a fairly well-liked person, but I find it REALLY difficult to make close friends with people.
Someone I was 'friends' with moved back to the UK recently and I emailed her a few months ago, said all the usual, hope you're settling, what's it like, etc., etc. Never got a reply. Felt a bit hurt, but guessed that she was probably busy getting her life back together.
However, I have heard recently that other people have heard from her and have even met up with her. Once again, I emailed, just a general chatty email, suggesting we meet up when I am next in the UK, but no reply.
This has happened to me a few times before and I am sure there must be something wrong with me. I feel like a misfit and 'out of the loop' these days.
Also, I find that I am usually the one who makes an effort to keep in touch with people? Anyone else find this? -
Message 2
Posted by bubbleyum (U6530079) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Hope you don't think this sounds too obvious, but are you sure you got her email address absolutely right?
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Message 3
Posted by The equally pointless susierratic (U1485524) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Yes, I often feel as you do, mars. I sometimes think I missed the gene for making and keeping friendships going. I just don't seem to able to do it.
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Message 4
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Mars, had somewhat similar experiences to you. But I was luckier, because part of the time moves were because OH was in the military so there is a ready made community wherever we moved. On the other hand, it was rare for friendship to outlast a posting. Nice if I happened to meet up with someone later because there is always a bond of shared experience.
I don't think for a minute there is anything wrong with you. You never know, someone may have just turned up on the doorstep when your friend was in the midst of unpacking box number 59 and said 'I knew you would be glad to see me'!
Have you got 'old' friends in UK you keep in touch with: I found mine a comfort when we were elsewhere. I wonder if internet contact is both a blessing and a curse. When we got letters that was great, now everyone seems to want to be in instant contact day and night and worry if no email appears within a day or two. When OH was on detachment letters had to be numbered so they were read in sequence because delivery was a bit hiss and miss. Saved him opening a letter which said ' a. is home from hsopital and the MO says he will have no lasting side effects' when the letter saying a. had fallen out of the apple tree and split his head open had not arrived!
Idon't know if it is possible for you to make friends in the local community? Anyway I have burbled on and what I have said may be of no help at all. Be assured the community in ML will provide you with good cyber friends when/if you feel lonesome. -
Message 5
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Yes, it has happened with me. I used to do all the running and in the end I stopped. It happens. 6 thousand million people in the world (nearly 7 thousand million actually). Just try to find someone else instead and see the previous friendships as ships that pass in the night. Their lights were comforting in all that darkness, but they weren't permanent.
And yes.. it could also be the e-mail address. People often say "Did you get my e-mail? I sent it ages ago." And I say "Did you remember to put the number 4 after my name?" "Ah, no, that might be it." -
Message 6
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:43 GMT, in reply to mars_bonfire in message 1
The thing with being an 'expat', though, is that often one makes friendships with people where the only common bond is being an expat of x or y nationality in a or b foreign country and the reality is that if both parties were back in their home countries, they wouldn't actually have become friends in the first place.
I do my best to maintain friendships, especially since I am single without a family but have had to come to the conclusion that a) people with families are never going to invest as much effort in keeping in touch as those without will invest b)out of sight is out of mind for very many people c) the internet hasn't made things better as it is possible to make less effort to keep in touch while still doing so - letter writing, and receiving replies several times a year indicated far more interest than forwarding joke emails or links or a quick 2' reply in one paragraph. IMHO. -
Message 7
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:47 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 6
PS I live abroad also, so know whereof I speak. -
Message 8
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Nothing wrong with you Mars.......Think there are several aspects to your post. In the first place, I think that, in general, we have to accept that friendships sometimes simply die out.....having said that, a few months ago I accepted that I'd been/was being used by an old friend & it wasn't worth it any more.....for some reason that upset me very much, altho I've had situations where I've lost friends I've been closer to & it hasn't affected me at all.
Secondly, as E Yore said, there's the danger of "thinking like an ex pat". I've tried to develop friendships with some local Brits (not many here) &, altho we haven't become sworn enemies etc, things didn't gel......because they wouldn't have done if we'd been in Britain. But I am in the first stages of friendship with another Brit now....you can't say it wil work or it won't.....people are people wherever you meet them.
Thirdly, there's living abroad. Difficult here for me because it's a claustrophobic small town & because I have health problems that have isolated me at times & my husband's job means we come under the spotlight. No real close friends here....still hoping after 19 years.
Fourthly, you probably are.....like me, I think, someone who naturally tries to keep friendships going. Some other people are simply different......nothing personal against anyone....they just don't set as much store by it/get as much satisfaction from it. There are disadvantages of course.....you get hurt etc.....but there are advantages from this attitude.....you get much more out of friendship. -
Message 9
Posted by mars_bonfire (U9739850) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
It's a relief to read all your posts; I am beginning to feel less of a freak already!
The email address question was quite a sensible one; bleedin' obvious and all that. I did check it, and it is correct.
E. yore and tillytrolly, you have made very valid points about expat communities which has set me thinking. Many of the people I meet are corporate expats, you know the type, company pays husband stonking salary, pays living expenses etc. OH and I are more like economic migrants; we have done everything ourselves, and are certainly not in any way shape or form wealthy. The sort of people I referred to above are the sorts I would run a mile from in the UK; poles apart politically, economically, way off my radar. But not all are like that; which is why I still participate.
I have been here for some time, and the friendships I had in the UK have fizzled out, sadly. no-one has made an effort to contact me, so I haven't bothered with them. I don't like having that attitude, but I am tired of making all the running. I have a little pride left!
I'm a bit of an all-or-nothing gal. I prefer close friendships with people rather than just doing the superficial stuff.
but I live in hope..... -
Message 10
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Mars.....all or nothing gal......you are me & I claim my 5 pounds ! Hate parties where most people go to bitch about everyone else afterwards.....think it is a bit harder to get to a close friendship level when you're abroad....language context/ signals in the usual social behaviour etc etc.....so much that we take for granted & we cotton on to by instinct. Mr T no use....he comes from a different part of Germany/different background to most people here & is glad to shut the door & be quiet when he can. And, yes, most of the Brits I've met here are the kind that set much more store by status/material wealth than we do.
But it's not YOU. You were probably like me & used to having a good set of close friends & you sometimes wonder if you've had a personality transplant. But it's circumstances -
Message 11
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:39 GMT, in reply to mars_bonfire in message 9
I prefer close friendships with people rather than just doing the superficial stuff.Ìý
And in the end, that is what matters (again imho). Advancing age helps in that, now that I am 50+, I am not going to ruminate over people who don't keep in touch or make the same effort that I am making (all of this being subjective of course - they might well think they are making the same effort). If they get in touch, I shall be delighted and if they don't, they don't. No point in poisoning what remains of the friendship by unsaid hurt feelings.
An MLer once pulled me up on my definition of 'friend' because for me, one has only a handful of friends and all the rest are really only acquaintances. At any given point in one's life one might have a closer relationship with acquaintances than with friends from another period of life because of shared interests (eg a parent of small children may well have more in common temporarily with other parents of children at same school than with a childless friend from university) but long term, the real friendships remain no matter how distended the links. My best friend and I have only lived in the same country for 2 years in our lives and most of our friendship has been conducted via letter, phone and the internet. We meet up once a year if we can for a day or two and though she has another life (and a husband) now and my life is very different from hers, when the crunch comes we are there for each other emotionally and practically if we can.
Recently, I decided not to keep up a relationship with someone I had used to work with and liked, simply because it had turned into lip service with me visiting her (with present) only at the birth of every new baby and us having no conversation apart from discussing former place of work. Sad, but not the end of the world.
This being said, I have to admit that when I had to distance myself from a real friend who had become completely toxic, it was extremely painful to me - and still is. -
Message 12
Posted by Babs (U12089863) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
I don't have experience of being an ex-pat but I know my parents struggled abroad; they struggled to learn the language so ended up with expats that they possibly might not have befriended in the usual course of things.
I've posted this before elsethread so won't bore on...just to say that I've made a few rewarding friendships from this board alone, plus one on a board elsewhere; I've had friends from a church drop away when I stopped going (which seems odd...surely true friendship should extend beyond physical boundaries?)
As others have said, some friendships last, others are transient, some have yet to be made. I hope you find some good ones in the last category.
In the meantime I can well recommend Mustardland as a lovely welcoming place. -
Message 13
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
I know where you're coming from Mars so your not alone nor are you a freak.
I don't live abroad but I have plenty of aqaintances but only one real friend.
We have been friends since we were 7 years old and tho we don't see each other often we speak a few times a year and pick up where we left off, when I've been in trouble in the past my friend has been there for me and vice visa.
I think we all go through what you are experiancing at the momenet love so don't despair, it'll happen when it happens.
Welcome to Mustardland btw and enjoy yourself here, you'll surley make cyberfriends here, I know I have and I enjoy meslf no end here playing hookey!!O)))) -
Message 14
Posted by mars_bonfire (U9739850) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Thanks for that nice warm welcome, giggle!!!!
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Message 15
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Oh, yes, I'd say I have made VERY good cyber friends thro ML.....
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Message 16
Posted by Abby33 (U6428266) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
An MLer once pulled me up on my definition of 'friend' because for me, one has only a handful of friends and all the rest are really only acquaintances Ìý
I have never lived anywhere except the UK but I think that the above is very true.I think that many people would class, what I call acqaintances, as friends. I am friendly, do activities and socialise with a lot of people- but when I move (in the near future) I dare say that I won't keep up with many of them. I have a handful of real friends that , although we might not contact each other for ages, we can pick up where we left off.
I wouldn't worry about it-it is circumstances rather than a fault with you. -
Message 17
Posted by justpottering (U10058555) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
I have never lived abroad but moved around with OH's job in fact 5 times in our 22 year marriage, and moved 7 times as a child, so there is a sense of not being anywhere long enough to put down roots and make friends.
What I realised recently though is that it was me who tended to hold back not friends who backed off, I hadn't realised this before and so analysing (as you do) I knew that I didn't want to get close to anyone because it would eventually end as I moved away, so instead of making the most of it, I held back.
It then became obvious to me that my perception of what a friend was was distorted, and based on envy of my brother who has lived in the same place forever (or so it seems) and has good friendships going back 35 years, in fact the best man at his wedding 2 years ago had known him for 32 years!
But now I know that people come in and out of my life, some fleetingly, but all leaving something behind that has made me who I am, sometimes it can be as light as the breeze on your cheek, othertimes it can be deeper and stronger.
I now think that friendships are to be lived in the moment, that those who share your life, albeit briefly, are worth having.
And friendships do not necessarily need to be lifelong in the presence sense, but memories of people you have met and shared something with can be.
jp -
Message 18
Posted by Imperfectly37 (U4335981) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Just Pottering,
That's a really interesting observation. I, too, moved alot (with parents and then in the early, single, days of my own working life). However, I have lived where I am now for over 10 years, both my children have never lived anywhere else and the prospect of moving again has become quite scary. It's not the friends per se - it's the support network, being close to children's friends, knowing the neighbours etc. Although I have friends (and acquaintances) locally, moving a small distance away would uproot me even if we could easily stay in touch.
Crikey - this is a bit deep this late at night!
Impish -
Message 19
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Also, I find that I am usually the one who makes an effort to keep in touch with people? Anyone else find this?
Ìý
Yes.
But I do also think there maybe something in me that I'm not fully conscious of, like just-pottering suggests. I don't know. It did take me some years to realise that some friendships were ephemeral, because until I was 18, I'd known most people forever, near enough. Actually, my problem now is I simply don't get to meet people so much. I have a good network of friends all round, though some have slipped away over time, but I don't really have anyone local, and that is very difficult at times. -
Message 20
Posted by anagramladysin (U13783319) on Thursday, 8th October 2009
Hi Mars and others
I lived overseas , in what was called a hardship station, with my ex-OH, for five years. It was tough in many ways, but the friends I made there, 25 or so years ago, are still some of my closest friends ... though they are Dutch, Australian, American, French etc etc, so it takes a bit of effort to keep in touch.
A bit of Zen .... "If you want to make someone into a real friend, allow them to do you a favour."
Appropriate self-disclosure is the key,IMHO. If you are always bright and breezy and seemingly fine and happy as the day is long, the person you'd like to be friends with thinks you don't need them. They have their own problems. If you appear to have none, they'll back off.
Wishing you good things
x -
Message 21
Posted by mars_bonfire (U9739850) on Friday, 9th October 2009
It has been so interesting to read the replies I have received here, and perhaps heartening to know that there are others who feel the same way.
Looking back, way back now, I was let down VERY badly by close friend; she had simply outgrown the friendship, but it was very painful at the time and it has in some way damaged my trust in others. I suppose I give off bright/breezy/independent vibes to others, which is my way of protecting myself.
What is hurting at the moment is that the friend who has not replied to my emails has been keeping in touch with other people, and is coming over here to stay with one of them.
I must not wallow..... -
Message 22
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Friday, 9th October 2009
It seems to me that everyone gets let down badly by supposed friends from time to time. I have lived abroad as a dependent when OH was posted, and sometimes we were a small enclave in a very alien environment. On one occasion, the woman who was the centre and dynamo of social activity in the enclave took against me for a reason I have never fathomed, but the iciness was tangible the very first moment I made her acquaintance. Once something like that has happened, it can only get worse, and things I did in response to what was happening to me just dug the hole I was in deeper. Eventually I took evasive action and turned to the expats of a British contractor working in the same place, whereupon I was judged to think myself a cut above everybody else rather than desperate for some social contact.
There are some people who won't allow you to find your own way after rejecting you for (apparently) no reason.
Other friends I made while OH was working abroad are still my friends thirty years on. One of my very dearest friends changed her partner about ten years ago, and I have never quite got over it. I don't pop in unannounced any more, I find it hard to feel familiar in the way I did before it all happened. I love her dearly still, but the friendship has changed from sisterliness to neighbourliness - and I am sad about it. I suppose I'm to blame, but fortunately, she is so popular that I don't think she misses that old familiarity.
Other very intense relationships were very rewarding and very important in the context of an overseas contract, but the needs and locations were less close when we moved on, so that the friendships didn't survive. I value them for what they meant at the time and remember them with fondness. I have learned not to be bitter about the non-continuation and look positively on the significance of temporary relationships in the light of the background at the time.
No, mars, you are not any kind of freak, and I wish you peace with friendships that have passed away and joy with all the ones you have to come. And don't downgrade their value on the basis of time. A friend in need, i.e. where you're at and when you need him/her, is a friend indeed. Time is not always the most important factor. The length of an acquaintance is not necessarily an indicator of its value to either party. -
Message 23
Posted by the_shellgrottolady (U2395646) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Hi Mars
Been thinking about you and your situation ...here's just a thought. In your first post you said that a lot of the others are really well off corperate types and that you and OH were more independant , less lavish.
it's not that the friend is coming over and wants a lavish type holiday so is fixing herself to one of the lavish ones is it?
Or is that my horrid mind?
I don't think you are odd or wierd or anything bad like that.
I have problems with maintaining friendships too sometimes - i love posting on here and don't email my oldest friend who I love dearly. She's the same so it works for us and we are pleased when we meet up.
I find expat groups very scary btw- lived in spain and found the cliquiness terrifying. I'm in france now and am scared to get involved with too much expat stuff after my spanish expereince.
Not fair I know coz everyone's different.
Anyway - sorry about the ramble -
best of luck
shell -
Message 24
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:50 GMT, in reply to anagramladysin in message 20
If you are always bright and breezy and seemingly fine and happy as the day is long, the person you'd like to be friends with thinks you don't need them. They have their own problems. If you appear to have none, they'll back off.Ìý
Hmm, I think this depends on the level of neediness or self-disclosure and also on the culture of the country.
During the periods of my life where I had major problems, hardship and had sunk into depression, an awful lot of people didn't want to know me. Now that I am content and without any of the major problems I had then, people seem to be knocking on my door to cultivate me.
I count as friends those people who neither abandoned me in my years of need nor who resented my life turning better but rejoiced with me. I was part of a group of friends at university and some of them dropped contact with me when I most needed it/them. Surprise, surprise, two of them made overtures for reopening the friendship suddenly at least 10 years later via an acquaintance, when I had turned my life around, was unlikely to need any help from them and was in a 'prestigious' job with bragging rights. At that stage, I was still bitter at how they had behaved when I was in distress and was very cool about the overtures.
With age, I have realised that the bitterness is pointless as it only harms the person holding that bitterness, so yes, I can be grateful for past displays of friendship and accept the end of them, without however being a patsy and rewarding past displays of bad behaviour.
Now at a better time of life, I have made acquaintances turning into friends whom I hope will still be around even if/when things get bad.
With regard to time, it may not be the only criterion to judge how strong a friendship is, but it is a benchmark of sorts. My oldest friend isn't my best friend, but my best friend is among my oldest friends. -
Message 25
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Friday, 9th October 2009
At the very deepest moments of distress in my life, the greatest help I received came from relative strangers. My friends were either not there at the time or not able to help in the way most needed.
Maybe it's just the nature of the trouble a person is in, but learning to cope with what life has thrown my way was the greatest teaching my family was able to give me. My gran and my mum were both exceptionally young widows with (in gran's case) many tiny children, but they managed without calling in assistance from family or friends - other than moral support in keeping as cheerful as poss in the face of adversity and poverty. I know there are worse disasters that remain life-long, and that friends can always be a great help (or disappointment, as the case may be), but I still believe that the greatest value of friendship is not necessarily measured in years.
Otherwise, I'd have to be mad with the best friends I ever had for being killed in a car crash thereby cutting off the friendship too abruptly for my liking. -
Message 26
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:14 GMT, in reply to notjenniferaldrich in message 25
but I still believe that the greatest value of friendship is not necessarily measured in years.Ìý
It is, though, notjen, if you are an only child without much of a family, as then the only people who remember your shared past, and can understand where you are coming from, are your old friends. -
Message 27
Posted by mars_bonfire (U9739850) on Friday, 9th October 2009
shell, you have hit the nail RIGHT on the head....my acquaintance (can longer refer to her as 'friend') is staying with someone who is seriously wealthy. Several mill; place in the south of France, lives in a lavish apartment, so yes, I think there's some social mobility stuff going on there. Tant pis and all that...
I never wanted to be part of an expat group when I came here to live, but some bad stuff had happened, including bereavement, and I just needed to speak to people in my own language.
In many ways the expat group has been a positive thing; I have heard some very interesting life stories, but it is clique-ish, which I hate.
But great material for that book I will probably never get around to writing! -
Message 28
Posted by notjenniferaldrich (U8555450) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Point taken, E-yore. Never been in that position, so have been looking at things with different eyes. I didn't mean to be dismissive of others in different circumstances, but thought it might be helpful to those who do have intense but time limited friendships when posted abroad. I remember hearing other women on some of our postings considering relationships I knew to have been close and rewarding as nothing because the other person had not replied to their second letter, and I thought at the time that two or three years of very close interdependency and all those pleasant days and nights we spent in making our own entertainment were suddenly declared worthless because they had come to an end.
But I do appreciate that the long term is more important to people who have very few relatives and live alone. Didn't mean to tread on any toes, so apologies if I did so inadvertently. -
Message 29
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:20 GMT, in reply to notjenniferaldrich in message 28
No worries, notjen. And I agree that the friendship situation of the short/medium-term expat is rather different from that of the immigrant. -
Message 30
Posted by the_shellgrottolady (U2395646) on Friday, 9th October 2009
hi Mars
What a drag - but I thought about it and I just wondered.....
Never mind - write that book - i expect you get some really fascinating characters down there.
...Some of the spanish lot i mentioned previously had some amazing stories - and I did make friends with a few people, but a lot of social climbing did go on. I might have enjoyed it more had I been any good at it!!
I'm up in northern france - btw - and could do with some RL english friends sometimes, cliquey or not.
i'm sure the friends you have value your company and friendship.
The french connection thread is nice - it's not all strictly come dancing chat! They were really supportive to me recently when I had a falling out with my neighbours - not the end of the world but it upset me at the time.Just cut into whatever conversation is going on and say hello if you feel like it sometime...
All the best for now
Shell
PS E Yore - just noticed your low IQ pedant sign in - I remember that conversation! Hope you are well. -
Message 31
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:08 GMT, in reply to the_shellgrottolady in message 30
Hi shell! Yes, that conversation was quite similar to some taking place in TB, wasn't it! As insults go, it still doesn't match Posh as a chicken-abusing liar, but you do what you can with what you're given.
Well again after a hairy 6 months that has knocked me for a loop (rta that left me - the innocent pedestrian - with a slight fracture of the lower back, a lot of pain & fear of traffic & limited mobility & knock-on health problems) but everything is back to normal. I am a very lucky human being indeed. -
Message 32
Posted by the_shellgrottolady (U2395646) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Hi E Yore
chicken abusing liar WAS a classic but yours equally memorable!
Really sorry to hear that you've been in the wars with a car though. I hope you're getting some good treatment for your back and get to a full recovery soon. I know that one about the fear that follows a rta - not actually happened to me as a pedestrian but I was in a smash up a few years ago and couldn't drive for ages after...I did eventually get over it as I am sure you will too...but it takes a while.
My very best wishes for a full recovery in the near future. Honestly the way some people drive ... makes your hair curl....I would say it was rotten luck to have happened in the first place but as you say it was a lucky escape. I feel like that too about my accident - these things can be so much worse!
All the best
shell -
Message 33
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:44 GMT, in reply to the_shellgrottolady in message 32
'Twas a scooter not stopping at a pedestrian crossing, not a car, another reason to think myself lucky as I doubt I'd have got off so lightly if I had been hit by a car going at 40 or 50 km.
I'm okay now, so not to worry but thanks for the good wishes. -
Message 34
Posted by mars_bonfire (U9739850) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
That's an intersting observation, but, sadly, in my experience, if people get so much as a whiff of neediness, they back off.
Sorry to sound so negative. It hasn't been a great week! -
Message 35
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
I think you can do favours for friends without them being needy. For example - if a friend came and helped weed my garden, it would be very helpful, and I'd really appreciate it, but I don't actually need it, it will just be something that gets done quicker than if it waits for me to have the time, weather and inclination. Or offering to pick something up at the shops when you're going in
-
Message 36
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Yes, agree with that Bearhug.....I'd say that's the kind of healthy helping one another......& it can be much deeper...like really listening to one another's troubles.....it doesn't have to imply that anyone is "needy".
You also have to watch out for people who are the opposite of the ones mars describes......those who can somehow only be friends when you're very low. I had a very good friend who helped me through a nasty patch & I hoped I'd be able to repay her one day. But, when I started fo feel better about my life, she seemed to be doing everything to convince me I should be really miserable.....trying to "talk down" anything my life that was giving me pleasure. It took me a long while to figure out what was going on .....I was "only" 19 & probably even thicker than I am now......& it made me very sad, but I had to gradually disentangle myself, otherwise I'd have been permanently depressed. But I'll always look back fondly on some great times we had together & be thankful for how she helped me. -
Message 37
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Tilly, I do know what you mean. I encountered someone like that who didn't seem able to be a friend to anyone who wasn't a lame dog, so to speak. Is it perhaps that some people like to be needed?
I also had a friend who was lovely but who dropped me the minute my marriage hit the buffers. And looking back, I realised that All her friends were married couples; she was a single person. And I don't mean she went after the husbands. She just seemed to be able to be friends with the couple and not want single friends. -
Message 38
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Yes, silverjenny.....I think some people in couples don't know what to do with single people or see them as some kind of threat.....I don't mean a sexual threat (eg pinching their partners), but.....I don't know.....I'm aware of having been there myself....some important common points of reference have gone....or maybe they're just embarassed about talking about the split....just as some people will avoid you if there is serious illness or a death in the family.
Some people need to be continually needed, but I think some people also need to feel "poor you"....to make them feel that they are very lucky & maybe superior in some way. These things can overlap, of course, & it can vary from being a bit unsettling but well intentioned to positively nasty & malicious -
Message 39
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
#21 mars
Some people are fair weather friends, whether by accident or by design. Not easy to do but try to not think of her as she is now, just remember the good days of the friendship.
I still chuckle about a day when the friend who dropped me and I went to rece a walk for her elder citizens on holiday. We were so busy chatting we missed a marker stone and three miles or so further on, we looked at each and said 'isn't this rather a long walk'! -
Message 40
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Wow that is interesting re the single person who wanted to be friends with couples.
I really prefer even though married to have single friends because I really dont enjoy the couple thing unless we are both friends with both people.
I have a real problem with friendships as def have a tendency to try too hard but also seem to attract people who are really keen on being my friend when they are having a bad time but who drop me like a ton of bricks when their life becomes more pleasant. Ive never managed to work out why this happens ( it has done a few times so not a one off by any means) but it has made me very wary. -
Message 41
Posted by LuciaLucas (U3742496) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Early on someone said
) people with families are never going to invest as much effort in keeping in touch as those without will invest b)out of sight is out of mind for very many people
Very true. As a married but childless person I found lots dropped me as I was 'not of the set' (and ditto the second). It is as if you are suddenly not acceptable. Equally, I have female friends, with small children, who see me as their 'life line' out of nappies etc and ask me to go out for child free evenings.
It is different when overseas - you do make friends with people you might not at home - but there brings enjoyment and interest. I have made friends now that I would not have met at home, -
Message 42
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
people with families are never going to invest as much effort in keeping in touch as those without will invest Ìý
I do hope, personally, that this is a sweeping generalisation. I must admit that whilst my children were small I had little time for anything for me, let alone friendships. However, now that they have more or less flown, I think I have fairly equal numbers of friends with families, single friends, divorced and widowed friends and child-free friends.
Some of them were friends when we were students and have been off the trajectory for a while, but at this stage in life it's lovely to be able to pick up and continue more or less where we left off in our 20s and 30s.
To mars, I would say - when I've got the Black Dog on my back I think as you do. If you aren't feeling happy in your own skin, you don't have the necessary resilience and optimism to deal with the sort of rudeness that your former friend has displayed towards you. Please don't think that there's anything wrong with you. There isn't. Hundreds of people would love to count you as their friend. You just haven't met them yet. -
Message 43
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
I have a real problem with friendships Ìý
I think, if the same thing keeps on and on happening (and I can see some patterns in my friendships at least back to age 9 or so, though I still have a couple of friends from those years,) there must be something we do subconsciously. Trouble is, if it's subconscious, it's difficult to work out just what it is, to be able to modify our behaviour.
That's not to say it's /all/ our fault - there are people out there who just aren't as nice as they first appear to be. But I do think if the same things are happening again and again with different people, it can't always be them. -
Message 44
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Yes I def think it is me Bearhug but I dont know what it is that I do wrong for it to happen to me as often as it has. I have lots of long lasting positive friendships as well but have been badly burnt a few times re the not wanting me when they have got through the bad patch which is what has made me wary.
-
Message 45
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
Bearhug, I realised exactly what I do now - behave like a hedgehog and send prickles out. With new people, I really do not want to say more than that I am divorced but if they question me more closely, I do 'prickle up', rather than say, 'long over, nothing to see here'. It is Jenny now they are talking to, not Jenny x numbers of years ago, who escaped a bad marriage and picked up the pieces of herself.
-
Message 46
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Jenny, I think we all have the habit of doing the prickly bit, I know I do.
What annoys me the most are those "couples", and I'm sure we all know some, who exclude all former friends once they are with a partner and do the "we only need each other" bit or those who drop a friend when a relationship breaks up, it's almost as if they afriad that the newly single person (usally the woman! GRRRR) is going to try and "nick" thier partner.
I mean, for heavens sake, why would anyone out of a relationship want to do that, personally when my bad relationship broke up the last thing I wanted was to go straight in to another one.
I stopped trying to work out friendships a long time ago now, as has been mentioned already, some friends are there for the long haul, some aren't and many friendships are work related so once you're no longer in that job the friendship, for want of a better word, dies a natural death, I think the same could be said for those friendships with parents you knew when you're kids, if you have them, were young, the list is endless really.
I think there comes a time when you have to think "Well 9 times out of ten it's not me at fault" and let it go. -
Message 47
Posted by Sixties Relic SAVE ML (U13777237) on Monday, 12th October 2009
I have been here for some time, and the friendships I had in the UK have fizzled out, sadly. no-one has made an effort to contact me, so I haven't bothered with them.Ìý
I share a lot of the views expressed above. But please do not give up on all your old friendships. Some of them can be re-kindled.
I have been on my own for the past 8 years and have made an effort with some very old friends, with whom I have kept in loose "christmas cards only" touch for the past several years.
One of them is a friend from when I was about 19, I have seen her only 3- 4 times since then as she lives in a very remote spot. But I went to visit her 3 years ago and we clicked straight back into a close friendship again. She admitted to me when I visited her that she had been a bit nervous about how we might get on after all this time. I admitted to having felt the same.
So remember that some people may be shy and nervous about re-starting a relationship. This can cause them to hesitate.
So do not give up! -
Message 48
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 12th October 2009
giggle, I know what you mean. One woman actually said she didn't let her husband out on his own. Poor wee soul, he was no adonis and had the courage of a field mouse!
-
Message 49
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Blimey Jenny love, we can work out who wears the kegs in that relationship can't we?!
Poor s*d.......not much of a life is it really?!O) -
Message 50
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 12th October 2009
In a general sort of way, Giggle, I do worry sometimes about couples who say they are 'all in all to each other'. I do think it is more healthy to keep some activities/friends which are not part of the 'couple relationship'. It is the natural order of things that, sooner or later, one or other will be left on their own and be very lost.
My in laws worked together and did most things together. One day FiL wen asked if he wanted a coffee, turned to MiL and asked 'do I want a tea or a coffee'. The resultant gale of laughter from assembled family startled him and he had to see the funny side. In his defence, he did work very long hours in their business and MiL was in charge of keeping the staff fed! My mum was bossy but dad had found a way of keeping his special interests outside work without causing ructions - his music and his garden; everything else he left to mum to organise.
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