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Friendship or more
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Am in a bit of a dilemma.
Have delightful, intelligent, kind, funny, spiritual etc etc etc friend who is clearly very fond of me. I am very fond of her. But in my case at least that is definitely as far as it goes. No chemistry except that of friendship. Which is fine from my point of view.
However I think she is more interested in me than that, and I am in a bit of a quandary. I have not been in this situation for m'phm-ty years and have forgotten how to deal with it, not that I was ever very good at it (and not that I have had that experience often anyway).
I really do not want to lose her as a friend as she has all the good points listed above. But I also don't want to "lead her on". With most of my friends it is surprising if we meet more than once a month, but it is clear that she would like to be meeting more than once a week. I am feeling crowded and don't know how to deal with it.
Any thoughts? -
Message 2
Posted by Helen (U1476131) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Sounds like a lovely friend. I'm sure you aren't "leading her on" and she must surely realise you're not interested in anything more. I'd stick with it and be prepared to let her down gently if she makes any declarations.
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Message 3
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
hmmmobviously not.
I hope someone will come up with something as am at a loss. -
Message 4
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:32 GMT, in reply to Drystane Dyke in message 1
Would it feel right to let the topic come up and see what happens?
"You can't have everything, and we have a deep friendship" isn't a bad place to be. -
Message 5
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Oh, sorry, Helen - we cross-posted. She is indeed a lovely friend, but I am not at all sure she doesn't realise I'm not interested in anything more. I think she is, and after all, hope springs eternal.
I have been careful not to always say yes when she suggests meeting, but even as it is I see a lot more of her than I do of almost anyone else.
I am not, in fact, leading her on, but I don't want her to think I am.
maybe you are right and I just need to keep my ears/eyes peeled for anything resembling a "declaration". -
Message 6
Posted by mezereon (U2046167) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Drystane, that's a tough one I'm just thinking out loud if the roles were reversed how would you like to be told.
If you give that some thought perhaps you can be prepared. -
Message 7
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
I also feel uncomfortable constantly saying no when she suggests meeting - I guess I say no 50% of the time, and never suggest meeting myself. This does make our friendship rather lopsided.
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Message 8
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
meze, I don't think it would happen the other way round as I am inclined to assume someone is NOT interested unless they very patently are, and also (though this may sound a bit paradoxical) I am rather less subtle. If I fancy someone, they know it sharpish.
And - forgive me, I am clarifying my own thoughts here - I am not so much concerned with "telling her", as I think I could manage that OK, as with getting the message across before any "telling" is necessary. -
Message 9
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
DD......maybe you could somehow bring up the topic of living alone/being unattached for the time being & say something like "I wouldn't like to be on my own forever, but, right now, there's nobody in my life that I feel attracted to in that way, although I do treasure my friendships". If there is someone else you've got your eye on, & she knows them, but you don't want her to know about it, it could be a bit tricky, as she might mention to them that you're not interested in anyone at the moment & put them off, so you'd have to reword it slightly. But, if you say something general like this, without specifically mentioning her, she should get the message without thinking that you'd seen through her & she could retain her dignity
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Message 10
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:53 GMT, in reply to Drystane Dyke in message 7
I've had really close friends (in my case of the opposite sex) who I've seen or spoken to every day, in some cases friends who've been closer than lovers.
What would happen if you said, when you were having a good time , "I really enjoy and value our friendship, but, ironically, I find myself turning down some invitations from you because I worry about sending out mixed messages and giving you the wrong impression. What would you tell yourself if you were me?" -
Message 11
Posted by mezereon (U2046167) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
I am feeling crowded and don't know how to deal with it.Â
Just read your OP through again and the above jumps out...sorry a bit slow there.
Think perhaps if you could make that clear to her then she would know how you feel. -
Message 12
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
I think you are almost certainly right, carrick. I think our friendship could take it. Not "out of the blue", but certainly if an opportunity presents itself.
I do have a really close friend in the Borders with whom I speak every day, and if we lived near to each other we probably would meet most days. The difference is that she is straight (insofar as she is anything) and is also one of the can-count-on-the-fingers-of-one-hand people to whom I am not out. -
Message 13
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
It's the suspicion that more than just friendship is wanted of you that is making you feel crowded - yes? I have seen how uncomfortable that can be. Someone I know moved to London this summer to escape the gentle but love-struck attentions of an admirer.
Could you go out for a drink with her and say that, having been through so much in recent months, you just want plenty of space and uncomplicated friendships, and at the moment your friendship with her is feeling a bit too intense. With luck a heart-to-heart would kick off from there and you could make it clear that only friendship is on offer.
Or you can invent a hot new girlfriend whom you're entertaining beneath your red chandelier. But then DD you'd never lie, would you? -
Message 14
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Drystane, after reading your OP and the replies I would be inclined to keep quite for the moment and see how things go.
You could I suppose always bring this up in converstation one day, something along the lines of "You know I've been thinking, I have some really wonderful friends of which you are one, but I'm quite happy on my own at the moment, but it'd be nice to meet someone special one day wouldn't it?" and see what the reply would be.
Than you'd know from the answer how your friend feels about you.
Not much help I know but maybe something to think about!!O)) -
Message 15
Posted by Judith Hearne (U7775397) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
DD, are you sure she's getting into you in "that" way, and that it's not just that she's generally needy and doesn't know where to set boundaries?
I ask because I've been crowded by new friends once or twice, simply because they had different ideas about what friendship entailed, particularly regarding investment of time. One in particular, recently, wanted us to get together at least once or twice a week. She's a terrific person, but that's just not my habit with friends, and it got to the stage where I was avoiding her calls, because I was running out of excuses. -
Message 16
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
"Or you can invent a hot new girlfriend whom you're entertaining beneath your red chandelier".
This is where the four poster bath comes in. You can hold auditions for the position of hot new girlfriend, 4 posters at a time. -
Message 17
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
You offering, beautiful?
Ahem.
Jenny you may be right. And am inclined to take the general advice to make it very clear that I am happy to be single and, if the opportunity presents itself, say what CB suggested.
Of course the awkward moment may come if I do meet someone. Or someone I have already met gets interested in me.
But even so, I need lots and lots of space, and someone who doesn't could never be of "interest" to me in that way. -
Message 18
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Only if i can find 3 fellow auditionees.
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Message 19
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Er, when I said Jenny I meant Judith, of course. Whitby's offer to audition in the bath made me come over all unnecessary.
How on earth have we strayed back into tart's boudoirs and baths??? -
Message 20
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Im a very practical person, it is a pragmatic solution ( goes off muttering that she wants an admirer too).
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Message 21
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
But Whitby, you have a place in my as-yet-non-existent four-poster bath! What more could you possibly wish for?
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Message 22
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Want a nadmirer as well ( piggies r us)
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Message 23
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
OOOOOH Drystane,
tricky tricky tricky,
which is not at all helpful I know.
C-B def has the right response should the need arise to discuss it, but I certainly wouldn't say anything unless the other person brings it up first. That would be pretty mortifying for the woman.
Tricky tricky tricky (god my wisdm is free-flowing tonight (exc.mark).
If you can maybe relax more around her when you are out, and bask in the admiration without encouraging it, then that would feed bith your egos - not a bad thing, we all need our ego stroked from time to time. It could be just a crush, in which case being positive in your appraisal of her as afriend may be all she needs to redress the intensity status quo.
Did that even make sense? Well, I know what I mean anyway!
kris -
Message 24
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
I wouldn't want to say anything that might impact on how I would be able to behave with others in the future ... ie by saying you aren't interested in a relationship at this point as who knows, tomorrow I might be!
I think it should be possible to get across that she doesn't float your boat. Perhaps talking about looking to the future and how none of us know what the future holds, and wondering if you will again get the opportunity to share your life with someone .... that sort of thing.
It sounds a bit daft written down, but I can imagine it happening. -
Message 25
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:54 GMT, in reply to Drystane Dyke in message 1
Drystane, I'm not quite sure how long it is since your personal life trauma moved from all-out meltdown to the present holding pattern, but I do know that it is fairly common for people to be advised (even by AA, if a friend of mine spoke true many years back) to wait at least twelve months before entering into any new emotional involvement or other major commitment after berevavement or separation.
Would it make life easier just at the moment if you could say 'I have been advised that I should keep everything quite light for at least the next six months . . . '
(I know you are a possibly excessively honest person - but I don't think this would be a dishonest thing to say) -
Message 26
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:29 GMT, in reply to krisjp in message 23
BTW, I, like everyone else, am great at suggesting things that others might say, but am not so good at sorting my own life out.
On a lighter note, I've just come back from riding my fiesty cob mare across the moors, as the dusk deepens.
I've taken off my long boots, but the muscles of my shoulders are aching. -
Message 27
Posted by atishy, virgo intacta and unstuffed post changeover (U3927091) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Want some linnament rub, CB? Made it myself from rum, linseed oil, Victory Vee's, furiture polish and Uncle Joe's Mint Balls.
(Thinks, OOO00ooo am I in the right thread?)
Apologies to DD. -
Message 28
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
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Message 29
Posted by atishy, virgo intacta and unstuffed post changeover (U3927091) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Wonderful lighting.
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Message 30
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:47 GMT, in reply to westie (westsussexbird) in message 28
What a striking photo - tanks, Westie.
(Did I mention the jodhpurs?) -
Message 31
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
It wasn't just jodpurs you didn't mention :0)
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Message 32
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:04 GMT, in reply to dean volecape in message 25
I think it would be dishonest, dean, as the fact is quite simply that my boat is unfloated.
But to answer your question...that's quite difficult. I'd say a good year since plain sailing was resumed, insofar as it ever is, and a year and a half since the ceasing of meltdown.
I am not in fact looking for lurrve in any case, as there is simply too much else in my life at present including work, church and social life. However I would not actually say no were it to present itself. But not with this lady, delightful though she is. -
Message 33
Posted by littlecandle (U2651900) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
<quote>Only if i can find 3 fellow auditionees.</quote?
Hello, chums!
DD, you are a kind, considerate, /delicate/ thing, you.
I got asked out to-day, which was lovely, but my version of letting her down gently was altogether less subtle ("If I were, er, how old exactly are you? Ah, if I were fourteen years younger, I would go out for a drink, buy you pizza and take you to bed, definitely I would, er, if I were fourteen years younger").
Of course I didn't mean it to come out so horribly wrong.
lc -
Message 34
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Thursday, 29th October 2009
OOOH Drystane,
Loving women and Church? Why do I find that a scary sentence right there... -
Message 35
Posted by JennyDarling Long Gone (U250754) on Friday, 30th October 2009
Drystane, tricky predicament. Must admit I have never been in this myself, have fancied chaps in the past (many many many years ago!) who have been completely uninterested in me and sometimes I embarassed myself by coming on to them and been rebuffed, but I was young then......
Might it be easier if you don't see this person alone too often, but include them in a small gathering say going out for coffee and cake with a couple of other friends? Then they can't get too "heavy"
Unrequited love is never much fun. -
Message 36
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Friday, 30th October 2009
I can't imagine, kris.
Have been out, loud and proud Christian dyke on these boards for, um, seven years, and an awful lot longer in RL. There are lots of us, you know. -
Message 37
Posted by Campbell-in-Clogs (U8123405) on Friday, 30th October 2009
<<<>>
---
sorry, but this statement jumped out and bit me. I'm just curious how this person can be a close friend and simultaneously one of the people you're not out to? I mean, I can understand not being out to some work people or other situations where it's not relevant, but a close friend?
Anyway, back at the overenthusiastic pal. Tricky. It's a wee bit difficult to come out with a 'sorry but I just don't see you in that way' statement when she also hasn't declared herself clearly. Or maybe... a jokey sort of 'I'm so glad you're not my type so that we can enjoy our friendship without any romantic complications'? Ach it all depends on the people involved of course. As for her demanding too much of your time - I'm afraid that in the past I once got to the point of getting myself a (house) phone with number recognition, expressly for avoiding the calls of one particular woman who had within a short space of time bombarded me to the status of All Time Best Friend. (Can you actually 'bombard to a status'? I suspect not...) Not brave of me but she just exhAUsted me so. -
Message 38
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Friday, 30th October 2009
My close friend in the Borders and I simply don't discuss that sort of thing. If we ever did, I might take a deep breath and out myself, but she is a traditional rural person, always single and never interested in being partnered, in her late seventies and simply wouldn't know what to do with the information. There are lots of other important things about me...
I am moving towards saying just such a thing as you suggest, Campbell. Only adjusting it slightly to "I'm glad we're not each other's type so that..." So I have two possibilities, yours and carrick's, to be used depending on which one seems appropriate at the time. I have, as it happens, just missed a reasonably good opportunity to use yours, but it would have been by e-mail and that could feel a bit dismissive. -
Message 39
Posted by Campbell-in-Clogs (U8123405) on Friday, 30th October 2009
<<< Only adjusting it slightly to "I'm glad we're not each other's type so that..." >>>
---
much better phrased than my version right enough. And thanks for explaining about the long distance close friend. I understand now - just thought it sounded a bit odd when I first read it. -
Message 40
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Friday, 30th October 2009
Good luck.
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Message 41
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Friday, 30th October 2009
Sorry Drystane,
seriously wasn't meaning to cause offence.
There are lots of us, you know.Â
I know. But I have not come across 'Christian Dykes' before; in my area mentioning the word Christian would be bad enough, Dyke, and you'd be driven out of town, and 'Christian Dyke' would probably get you placed upon a sacrificial alter...
Happy to see progress in some parts of the world then.
kris -
Message 42
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Friday, 30th October 2009
Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:15 GMT, in reply to krisjp in message 41
ooh, normally only ONE half of me offends each group...the thought of offending the same people by both Christianity and dykitude is absolutely thrilling...
...am wondering what sort of people they are...atheists who don't like queers?
No offence taken btw. I don't take offence except when offence is intended and sometimes not even then. -
Message 43
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Friday, 30th October 2009
Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:50 GMT, in reply to Drystane Dyke in message 42
I have always found that keeping the eyes honest is enough. If you value her friendship, just enjoy it at whatever level and pace you find satisfying. Either it will settle at its own level or she will try again to hike it up.
If you try to force the pace, you could hurt her in a way that you don't want to, and if you bring in other people, that will be hurtful, unless they are people who she likes too. Keep it honest, without declarations and it ought to find its own level. If you are too busy to meet, or don't want to then don't meet. Just meet when both of you want to. Keep her in your life, bring her in for coffee, but not in the bedroom/bathroom if you don't want that. Keep it where you are comfortable and it will sort itself out. -
Message 44
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Sunday, 1st November 2009
Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:54 GMT, in reply to Rwth of Cornovii in message 43
I think things have got to the point where they are so awkward I will have to say something soon. Don't want to but have to. I think. Bother. -
Message 45
Posted by JennyDarling Long Gone (U250754) on Sunday, 1st November 2009
Best of luck with that, Drystane. I'm sure you will be kind.
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Message 46
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 2nd November 2009
Drystane, I am sure you will do fine ....
"I really value my friends, every one is special and different in their own way. The best friendships are the ones where it is possible to be totally honest and I wouldn't be being honest with you if I didn't make sure that you understand I am not at all interested in turning this friendship into a relationship."
How am I doing?
:0)) -
Message 47
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Monday, 2nd November 2009
I know. I now have several alternative things that I can say. It is just so damn awkward saying them. This is not the sort of thing that a person of fifty-plus should be agonising over...
Tell me what it is about me that picks up needy people. And can cope with their needs up to a point but then needs to disengage and it is always hard.
I think I need to (a) set boundaries earlier even if it sounds unkind and (b) look at the sort of messages I am giving off.
I do like people, but I also like being alone and there is a limit to what I can give. -
Message 48
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 2nd November 2009
Drystane, I think that some people are givers and some people are takers.
I was told by a woman on about the third meeting that I was the longed for sister she had never had! I put her straight there and then! I have 3 sister in laws already and what would I be wanting another sister for?
I really think that the 'friendship is no good unless you can be honest' tack has stood me in good stead in the past.
Someone expected me to drop everything and would ring up asking "What are you doing today?" without first of all saying "I need a lift in your car to Chichester as I have an appointment with my solicitor .. it will involve you hanging around for hours and hours but heck, I'm not going to tell you that."
I have told friends that I can only conduct a friendship at a fairly superficial level because that is all I have the emotional space for and I think people understand.
A rambling post ... sorry ... it may help. -
Message 49
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Monday, 2nd November 2009
I have told friends that I can only conduct a friendship at a fairly superficial level because that is all I have the emotional space for and I think people understandÂ
I think this is interesting. It is very brave of you to say it, and maybe I should work out my equivalent. I think what it would be is (but it would need to be expressed better and more tactfully):
However much I like seeing friends there is a limit to the amount of socialising I can do. I am naturally solitary and being with people takes it out of me. I therefore need to "fill up my tank" by time on my own (I am talking days, not hours) before I can cope with socialising again. That applies to absolutely everyone without exception, however much I love you. One lot of socialising a week is my absolute limit.
This is why I would absolutely never ever consider living with anyone again (in a relationship, I mean - having an unobtrusive lodger is not a problem).
Thank you, westie, that was very helpful. -
Message 50
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 2nd November 2009
That rings a very big bell with me, DD. I seem to have a very large group of social acquaintances as a result of my interests. Trying to keep up with all the invitations is sometimes emotionally exhausting. I turn down so many offers.
At least I work alone from home: otherwise I don't think I could cope. I too seem to attract needy people but am beginning to learn that being a prop and a support isn't necessarily the kindest way to respond.
Perhaps that's worth remembering when you next meet up with your friend. It's not your job to look after her or give her what she thinks she wants. You may be unknowingly continuing a pattern she's established: intense, dependent friendships that founder when she anticipates too much and people run away. It could actually be a great kindness to be upfront, clear about what you want, and then hang on in there for her to give her time to evolve and realise that feeling close and loved by someone doesn't necessarily mean that you're seeing them all the time. That might be a gift she needs, even if she doesn't want it.
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