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Message 1.Â
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Message 2
Posted by catwomyn (U1485618) on Monday, 30th November 2009
eek Kishtu. Absolutely no words of advice as I am as subtle as a flying brick, but wanted to express sympathy - sounds utterly horrid.
Give the bed-sleeping cats a big cuddle from me. That'll lower your blood pressure.
Cat x -
Message 3
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
As some people saw on this message board a couple of weeks ago - when I had a similar problem - the only way you can get through to some people is to be extremely rude to them.
I told a guy in various ways that I was not interested in him staying at my place for a couple of days on his way to the US and he didn't get the various remarks - which got ruder and ruder all the time - until I used the phrase 'which part of the word 'no' don't you understand?'. Since then, I've just had thunderous silence from his direction.
But it means that I don't get persistent calls at the weekend. If I don't answer first time round, he tries again. And then there are the e-mails which were the same thing every time for the last 20-odd years.
I am now finally free of all that. I feel a bit guilty, but dammit.. if he can't take a hint...
Be very blunt to her.
"Look, I've put up with you for the sake of the man we both loved for long enough. I find you incredibly rude and interfering. I don't appreciate the comments you make and I would rather you kept your nastiness to yourself. You tire me out and I get nothing from knowing you. I dislike you intensely so please get out of my life and leave me alone." -
Message 4
Posted by Kishtu (U4370065) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Phew. Thanks guys. I was starying to feel like a One-woman Axis of Evil.
It's so easy to feel an obligation to be kind to people - isn;t it Dame Celia...
"if she doesn't have me she won't have anyone".... (patently untrue btw)
"I must owe her something, they were good to me"....
As Hairy Maclary (that's the OH) points out, I don't *owe* her the rest of my life. -
Message 5
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Your situation was different DameC as it involved an unrelated male who had limpeted onto you. This poor woman (likeable or not) has lost her son and Kishtu is probably her last real contact with him.
Kishtu, I know this situation is annoying and intrusive, but I hope you can find a kinder way to discourage her. -
Message 6
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
She is also not related to Kishtu.
Even if it were Kishtu's sister, you still don't have to put up with bad behaviour and insults. -
Message 7
Posted by Kishtu (U4370065) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Ah rainbowLaure I frequently think it in my head though - "bogger OFF will you!!!"
I've been trying for the last couple of months to very quietly just slink off the radar, and was hoping that arrival of grandsprog would have done it for me, but twas not to be
I'm not the sort of person who could tell her to get lost, sadly. I just wish she'd get the hint that if I avoid speaking to her for weeks on end and don't reply to her emails that I just do not feel the same way as she does.
I appreciate she gets some comfort and consolation from my existence, but sadly, it's not a mutual thing.... -
Message 8
Posted by Dapply (U2437462) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:49 GMT, in reply to Kishtu in message 4
Kishtu
I too have had trials and tribulations with my MiL for the sake of Mr Dapply. I tried my best to get along with her.
It is my own fault I let her have her own way for far too long, she was widowed within 6 months of Mr D and I being married and since then she has got away with so much that I really resent her now. She has always been bossy and demanding, and it has ben a bone of contation between Mr D and I for about 28 years.
Since last year when Mr D was ill she has got worse and is quite frankly a pain in my @rse. I think that if/when anything happens to Mr D I shall try distance myself from MiL.
You have NO obligation to your ex MiL. Dame Celia is quite right. -
Message 9
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Monday, 30th November 2009
I do understand how you feel, Kishtu.
I hope I wouldn't be like this if something similar happened to my son, but you never know until you're standing in those shoes. She must be driven by loneliness and desperation and I just don't know how you can deal with it.
I /do/ know that the more she behaves like this, the more it will feed her grief. She really needs to be getting some grief counselling. -
Message 10
Posted by smee (U2226513) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:12 GMT, in reply to Kishtu in message 7
I might not be so blunt as Dame C but this woman does need to be told clearly and plainly that you do not wish her to call you or she won't recognise that that's what you're asking. Nail your courage to the sticking post etc. -
Message 11
Posted by catwomyn (U1485618) on Monday, 30th November 2009
OK, I've been having another think about this (well, I have difficult issues to do with work that to decidedly ignore...) and two things jumped out at me:
1) Is she married? the 'they' suggests she is, but you don't mention an OH. If there is one, what is his role in all this?
2)
I think that you need to strongly acknowledge this when you talk to her. If she's coming down at the end of the week that is a good time to talk, otherwise I'd say write her a letter.
Emphasise how kind and supportive she was and say that you're now very concerned about her wellbeing and you think she is suffering with grief. Suggest speaking to a friend or a grief counsellor - and make it clear you can't fill that role because you're too involved via your late OH. Say how it upsets you to see her living in the past and that It's Not What WW Would Have Wanted.
I really think there isn't any need to be bluntly rude. After all, you acknowledge that she was there for you when you needed her. If you were rude to get rid of her she'd (with some justification) feel used and then cast aside. If you make the focus *her*, and how you perceive her to be unhappy and grieving, whilst making it clear you aren't the person to fix it, you're acknowledging her support of you and also returning that support and kindness.
She sounds like a very unhappy grieving mother and before barging in and being rude, I think it's worth a go to suggest she faces her grief.
Cat x -
Message 12
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Top post, Catwomyn!
(IMHO, natch) -
Message 13
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Cat, that's good advice.
Kishtu, I was wondering if you could get advice on how to approach this from one of the counselling agencies. If not, it might be worth suggesting that she speaks to her GP. -
Message 14
Posted by Isabel Archer (U13716168) on Monday, 30th November 2009
A year is no time at all to get over losing a son and I don't think you should judge her by the same standards that you would apply to a friend who was similarly demanding and needy. You are one last link to the child she has lost and I think that has to be acknowledged. It also sounds as if she was kind to you at the time. To be completely blunt and rude would be very wrong in these circumstances imo (particularly, if I may say so, when you are in a new relationship - which is right and great for you but must be difficult for her).
At the same time, for the sake of your own sanity, you need to draw some boundaries to this relationship. I agree that you could focus on her grief but the danger of that is that it could sound patronising and also as if you have no grief to work through yourself - which would be very hurtful for her and untrue.
My suggestion is that you are relatively honest but that you depersonalise the issue. You could say that losing her son was a terrible thing for you and you have had to move on as best you can. You and she will always have a link because of him but that you need some space in order to focus on your needs and your future. Can you then suggest some regular but manageable way in which you two can continue to meet and share the memories but which does not intrude on everything else, for example, meeting for tea once a month or something like that. If you give her that to cling on to, would it then be easier to ask her gently but insistently to keep out of the rest of your life? -
Message 15
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Sorry, Kishtu. I forgot to say how happy I am for you that your life seems to have taken off in a new direction!
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Message 16
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
So a person is making you miserable now and making your life hellish and you have to accept all that because she was once nice to you?
But it's okay for you to feel miserable, to fear answering the telephone, to say you have a non-existent relationship, to feel that you are having your life sucked out of you but oh, no.. you have to be nice to her?
Rubbish. Set your barriers for your life and your mental and physical well-being.
I've had experience of direct family members manipulating me and making me feel guilty and I have finally pushed back.
If she has no friends, it's her problem.
A friend rang me up the other day and said that a mutual friend - a person I'd introduced her to - was no very old and feeling alone. I'd been a friend - so I thought - to this old lady for nearly a decade when she upset me very much. When the younger friend managed to get us to meet again a year later, the older friend managed to insult and upset me again. So I stopped contacting her.
Now she's alone and lonely and the younger friend wants me to contact her again.
My take is that if she is alone and lonely, she only has herself to blame. I was very supportive of her but her rudeness pushed me away from her.
People have responsibility for their own lives. -
Message 17
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 30th November 2009
I don't really know what best to say to you on this one love only that I'm sorry for you and also late OH's mother.
As has been already said you are a link to the son she lost but and there is a but she has to understand that you have a life that is slowly moving on, not necessarly in the SHE wants but it's not her life, it's yours.
As she's coming to "visit" you this may be the time to tell her how you feel and to set some ground rules, if you still want to keep in contact with her let her know the times that are convenitant for you or just say that you'll contact her when you can.
I don't need to say she's still trying to come to terms with the loss of her son but than you too have had to come to terms with what happened and you were, I'm assumeing, there when it happened.
From what you've said it doesn't sound like you and your late OH had kids so it sounds as if that isn't a reason to keep in that much contact with his mum.
I have a very draining MIL who I don't have much contact with since moving and I am much happier now I don't have to see her, she is a very depressing person who is totally self absorbed and selfish, everything has to revolve around her, to be honest I can't stand the woman, a lot of history and many catty remarks from her one of which was that her son could have done "so much better than someone like me", but for all that we have been together 23 years and have 6 kids!!
Only you know the best way to handle her and the situation you find yourself in but bear in mind there's some good advice her which may be helpful, let us know how you get on with her love and GOOD LUCK whatever you decide to do!O) -
Message 18
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Dame Celia - whilst, on the whole, I am in broad agreement about your ways of dealing with friends who have upset you, I think that this particular situation needs a lot more gentle handling.
I don't know if you have experience of bereavement of someone very close to you (and I'm talking about parent, sibling or spouse - not an even older generation), but there are lots of issues which need to be addressed gently, not only because the dynamics of family relationships changes when someone 'at the centre' dies.
I am happy that your way of Dealing With People suits you. I am not at all convinced that you can universally apply those principles, however. -
Message 19
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Should read WAY SHE WANTS!!
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Message 20
Posted by catwomyn (U1485618) on Monday, 30th November 2009
DCM, you appear to have interpreted all sorts from (presumably) my post and/or Isabel's (though I can't speak for her) that is patently not there.
Nowhere have I said that Kishtu 'has to' accept her life being made miserable.
I have offered my advice, and it is up to Kishtu and not you whether it is 'rubbish'.
I seem to remember you going off in an almighty huff when you received some advice and insights that didn't tally with what you wanted. -
Message 21
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:43 GMT, in reply to Lili Bolero in message 15
Dear Kishtu, I wonder if I can even begin to convey to anyone else how the last, more than 12 months, because the lovely Wascally Woyalist was becoming increasingly ill, unhappy and even more limited in what he could do, with your sensitive and self-sacrificing presence beside him.
His death was a a shock but not a surprise, I think, not that I knew much, and he actually said, specifically, that he wanted you to have a new partner when he was gone and had some specific suggestions!
I am, and I feel confident that he would be (is?) so happy to see you and your OH happy and growing in your closeness and security; a new life anchored in your previous existence.
I wonder, is there any way of communicating to her that your current happinness is the living memorial that he wanted?
He wasn't the sort of person to write in his will that you had to have a weekly black-veiled weep, even though I can see that, with your Goth tendencies, you might enjoy that sort of ritual very occasionally. (Would the cats have to have veils as well?)
It must be difficult, giving her a space to remember and celebrate him that doesn't take over your life.
Phonecalls x at work seem much too much. Would it be possible to lie and say you have been forbidden to take personal calls?
Also, covert criticism of your characterful and bijoux home - with the full knowledge and cooperation of your OH, how about playing it (sensitively) theatrical? "Yes, I know there's no shower, but WW loved this house" and "WW really enjoyed the smallness of this kitchen"?
All the best to you both. -
Message 22
Posted by Isabel Archer (U13716168) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Cat, thanks for your post.
No one is suggesting that Kishtu should be miserable for the rest of her life just that she should not treat a bereaved mother in the same way that one might treat an importunate friend and therefore the relationship should be contained and managed, if at all possible, rather than abruptly ended.
I am sincerely very glad for Kishtu that she has met someone else. Unfortunately, children are not replaceable and the emotional fall-out for parents of their loss is likely to be lifelong. To be acting irrationally one year after a child's death is not so surprising in my view.
Of course Kishtu must do as she thinks best and I can understand her exasperation. But, there is another point of view. -
Message 23
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Monday, 30th November 2009
I'm with those who say you do need to be honest, but not rude.
If she's coming 7 hours to visit - that's quite some distance. She does seem to be investing an awful lot in you. Does she have any hobbies or friends at home? I would think that she needs something else to focus on. Has she had grief counselling at all? Maybe you could suggest she contacts Cruse to talk things to. I can understand her wanting to keep her son alive, and I think it would be harsh to cut ties entirely, as she has lost her son, but you need to do it on your terms.
I like the idea of a letter, mostly because I am better at writing than speaking - but it means that things are down in paper. You have the chance to think about how you say things, whereas a hurtful comment once spoken is more difficult to change, even when unintended. She can also read through it more than once, if she doesn't want to take it in at first, and it gives her time to think things over.
You should acknowledge her loss and that she is finding it difficult, but that is a two-way thing, and somehow, you need to get her to see things from your point of view, too. That can be very difficult when you're grieving, because it can take over everything, but that is why she needs help from others, not just you.
I hope you can resolve this to the satisfaction of both sides, without causing too much hurt and guilt. Good luck. -
Message 24
Posted by laughingDeborah (U13727461) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Did your late OH have any siblings? It doesn't sound like it but if he did maybe they could help.
Losing my brother put me in the role where both my mum and my s-i-l ran things by me to see if they were being too pushy/needy or neglecting the other. -
Message 25
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Catwomyn,
I didn't notice who said what. So it wasn't 'getting at' you or anyone else. I just think that just because someone was nice to you once in your life does not give them the right to ride roughshod over your feelings some time later.
From the original post, it is clear that the author of the post is having a horrible time of it. It is affecting her quality of life. In that case, I can only advise being very firm. Things are not getting better, they seem to be getting worse. The woman is being highly intrusive and only by being very blunt and forthright can I imagine that any message would get through to her.
"I seem to remember you going off in an almighty huff when you received some advice and insights that didn't tally with what you wanted."
You'd have to remind me what that was because I honestly can't remember. Things are so hectic here that I can only concentrate on things happening now.
When I first joined these boards about six years ago, I used to live in the past a lot. I'd brood on stuff a lot. These boards have been a bit like therapy for me. The person whom I can remember having a big influence on me was Sharpissima, surprisingly enough.
Anyway, what happened a couple of months ago in my life could be completely forgotten these days. I'm always amazed when people tell me what I said years ago, because so much has happened since then.
Anyway, my calendar is that full right now, I just have to focus on the present. -
Message 26
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:13 GMT, in reply to Dame Celia Molestrangler in message 25
"I seem to remember you going off in an almighty huff when you received some advice and insights that didn't tally with what you wanted."
You'd have to remind me what that was because I honestly can't remember. Things are so hectic here that I can only concentrate on things happening now.Â
How convenient for you. -
Message 27
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Monday, 30th November 2009
DameC, when you were in this situation I was one of the posters who advised you to be blunt with your 'stalker'.
However, this situation is different because of the relationships involved. None of us want Kishtu to be miserable, nor to feel that she is forever responsible for this sad woman.
I do feel she needs to find a way to help her mil move forward because I do not think that brutal honesty will make her feel better in the long run. -
Message 28
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:32 GMT, in reply to rainbowLaure in message 27
Kishtu is honest, but I can't ever see her doing "brutal honesty" in this situation.
I think that her kindness and sensitivity are what's making the dear woman ask for advice in the first place, having tried to be kind through her own grief.
The fact that it was bravely and humorously borne should not make it seem less to anyone. -
Message 29
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Monday, 30th November 2009
carrick, I never got the impression that Kishtu would do that - I was just commenting on DameC's advice.
I understand how difficult this is but I think a lot of the frustration and misery are caused because it feels as if the situation will always continue. If MIL could be guided towards something that would help her move forward, I think those feelings would go away. -
Message 30
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Is it convenient, Carrick?
I wish I could remember... but then again.. when all I could remember were bad things about the past.. that wasn't a good thing for my life either.
Honestly, you can catwomyn really don't like me, do you?
Well.. your problem. You don't know me, yet you cannot stop directly making snide comments to me.
I pity you. That a person on a message board can get your goat, so to speak, is quite .. astounding.
You, for example Carrick, seem only to see in me what you wish to see. Not how it is. A poor distorted view of things.
Hey ho. I'm off to do some work on one of my hobbies and enjoy my time. -
Message 31
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:56 GMT, in reply to rainbowLaure in message 29
rainbowLaure, no, I didn't think you'd think she'd take up that option either - I don't have any friends who would, really, unless they were ill or pushed to total desperation. -
Message 32
Posted by Celtic Tiger (U2229153) on Monday, 30th November 2009
I am someone who would usually advocate being forthright about one's views (and in the case of Dame Celia and her friend I was one of the posters who said tell him it like it is.) But I am shocked at the inhumanity of the above post. It seems to betray a lack of understanding and humanity. There is no comparison between a vague "friend" and a mother who has lost her son and will no doubt grieve for him for the rest of her life.
Other posters have made some good suggestions about how the situation might be handled with tact and understanding. I hope it can be worked out to the benefit of all concerned. -
Message 33
Posted by velveeta_dreamrabbit (U14203840) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Kishtu, I can sympathise with the situation you find yourself in. but as irritating as this lady is, you have to understand that, unlike you, she has been unable to move on. Losing a child must be an unimaginable kind of grief, and she obviously needs some kind of counselling. Your role in this is to point her towards the help she needs. I don't think it would be a good idea to cut her out of your life completely; you have found happiness, perhaps you can afford to be a little generous towards her, but without allowing her to monopolise your time. Perhaps you need to arrange a day/time to meet her, maybe have lunch together, on a monthly or two-monthly basis, but no more. And be firm about it.
"Look, I've put up with you for the sake of the man we both loved for long enough. I find you incredibly rude and interfering. I don't appreciate the comments you make and I would rather you kept your nastiness to yourself. You tire me out and I get nothing from knowing you. I dislike you intensely so please get out of my life and leave me alone.">
That is a thoroughly nasty and unkind post directed at a vulnerable person. I would be very surprised if you have ANY friends, DCM, with that attitude. -
Message 34
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Kishtu, I hope some of the ideas put forward by various posters have given you some positive options.
Please let us know how you get on - just being able to come here and rant may help a little.
In the meantime, I hope you and your OH have a very happy Christmas. -
Message 35
Posted by jane (U2276921) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Sorry to hear about your problems Kishtu, but glad to hear of some new happiness.
No advice tho except to say I'm not sure if I'd be a very rationally behaved mother if one of my children (whatever their age) died. I'd probably give all sorts of peoiple a hard time. Just sorry you're having to bear the brunt of this one. -
Message 36
Posted by Kishtu (U4370065) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Well. Thanks for everyone's input so far.
Eeks, is all I can say.
Email awaiting me after a meeting, she would like to come down and see me (note: not "us" although what she proposes Hairy Maclary should do while she visits is beyond me - give him a fiver to go to the pictures, maybe?) and also to go to WW's old workplace. NB: she has been trying to get into his old workplace for almost 12 months. His manager doesn't want her anywhere near the place - understandably, I feel.
This may sound harsh but the only word I can think of to describe how I think of her is "vampiric" - so desperately greedy to feed off other people's memories, even if they don't want to give them up....it really is quite genuinely unsettling.
How does this sound?
"It worries me a little bit at times that you maybe don't have anyone apart from me that you feel able to talk about WW to (if that was in English)
One of the reasons I don't want to talk very much on the phone - to anyone, unless I have no choice - is that I have too much going on at home, what with one thing and another; I value your friendship, as you know, enormously, but I wouldn't like to think that I was the only person that you could talk about him, to, because I'm not able to invest as much time in keeping in touch as I would otherwise like to.
(I know we don't talk about WW *all* the time, but I do know as well that it's one of the main things we have in common!)" -
Message 37
Posted by catwomyn (U1485618) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Sounds good, Kishtu.
I'd still acknowledge her kindness and support to you though, to make it sound more like your concern is reciprocal support (even if it isn't!)
Cat x -
Message 38
Posted by Kishtu (U4370065) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Thought about that Cat, what made me think otherwise was that it made it sound like she was being dumped.
(Which is tempting at the moment because she's being a particular pain in the arris, but...)
Tempting though it is to burn bridges, just to get her off my back, there may come a point in the future when I'm glad of her company. -
Message 39
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Monday, 30th November 2009
It sounds good to me, too, but I wonder if it's still not clear enough that you need less contact from her.
I do understand about not wanting to burn bridges - I'd be the same. -
Message 40
Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Hello Kishtu, lovely to see you, even in the current circs, & I'm pleased you have found a happy new relationship.
*Does* she have anyone else? Husband, other children, her own siblings, good friend - that you could somehow contact and discuss this with? She sounds dreadfully unhappy and in need of some kind of support - it's not your responsibility I hasten to add, but I wonder if someone else could suggest to her she needs to find other ways of working through her grief. A counsellor, perhaps.
I think Cat's advice was good, perhaps contact by letter is best. -
Message 41
Posted by Isabel Archer (U13716168) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Kishtu, I'm sorry if I sound carping but this is such a sensitive subject and I am trying to look at it from your ex-mil's pov however annoying she is.
The tone of what you suggest does sound a bit as if you have moved thoroughly on from this tragic event and that it is all squarely in the past for you now. I think she may find that a bit hurtful when (I think you said) it is only a year since her son died. I'm not saying that you should not have done so only that having it made so evident may exacerbate her feelings. Could you word what you say more along the lines of that you are dealing with your own grief and memories the best way you know how.
I think it is understandable that this is all very recent for her and sometimes, at least for now, she will want to see you without your new o/h being present. However pleased she may be for you in abstract, it may well be difficult for her to get used to. Obviously, this has to be on your terms as well as hers.
"This may sound harsh but the only word I can think of to describe how I think of her is "vampiric" - so desperately greedy to feed off other people's memories, even if they don't want to give them up....it really is quite genuinely unsettling. "
I am going to be frank and say that does sound a little harsh ... but then she is not my mil and not my problem. -
Message 42
Posted by Kishtu (U4370065) on Monday, 30th November 2009
That's the awful thing, she has a husband who works away from home, two sisters, a mother, and a daughter. I don't really want to involve them, because I have a suspicion that she has probably exhausted their sympathy by now.
The really hard thing is that there are so many things that I "ought" not to mention. Christmas? oh, she can't think about Christmas (he died on December 21st) Bluddyell imagine if I had to tell her I was expecting a baby, she'd be distraught.
And I just can't be @rsed to keep pussyfooting around.... -
Message 43
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Velveeta,
I based my comments on the comments the original post contained. That is the summary of the original post in other words.
If that is how the person feels, then that is what should be said. The original poster has made it clear that she is extremely unhappy about the situaton; that she has no wish to have any contact with the person; that she does not finish any contact with the person feeling good and that she feels virtually hounded by the former mother-in-law.
My words were just putting what she said into a nutshell.
You'd be surprised how many friends I have, velveeta. I have invitations left, right and centre. From here and from all around the world. -
Message 44
Posted by Kishtu (U4370065) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Isabel - I will be blunt in return and say that she isn't, actually, my problem.
(Um. Yes. That is rather too blunt...)
*starts digging*
I appreciate that she may find it hurtful to see me with the new chap, but on the other hand, I will not have her pretend he doesn't exist and encourage her to live in the fantasy-land where we all worship the great plaster saint that she has set up in her imagination. Yes, it may be recent, but it wasn't unexpected, and I can't, and won't, pretend a Princess Di-esque grief fest for her or anyone else.
And in all seriousness, when someone asks to read someone else's love-letters... wants to read their diaries....I'm sorry, but I think in death he deserves some privacy. And whether it helps her or not, I really don't care. There are some things he didn;t discuss with her - whole chunks of his life that she knew nothing about - she has *no right*, none whatever, to pry into them to fulfil her own grieving needs.
(That wasn't a go at you, btw, but sometimes there is a certain horrible grasping determination to her desire to hold onto EVERYTHING that he might have touched....and I find it really quite Miss Haversham like) -
Message 45
Posted by That Old Janx Spirit (U2140966) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Kishtu,
You've been polite but your first responsibility is to yourself. It's no good making yourself ill. One has to take care of oneself.
You have to set boundaries.
You are not a professional counsellor or psychiatrist or psychologist.
You can say to her that you have your own life to live... as someone else pointed out in a previous post, but it is not your responsibility to 'grief counsel' her.
Yes, it's tough for her. And I do have sympathy for her, but I have sympathy for you, too. It seems to me that you are close to screaming because of this situation.
You have to say "thus far and no more".
The older I get, the more bolshy I get. I used to be a doormat. I used to bend over backwards to accommodate people. I'd go out of my way to make other people - family and friends - happy. I'd listen to them pour out their troubles to me. I was told I was a good listener.
Sometimes it made me ill. Most of the time my efforts were not appreciated. I got close to little respect. And how I got comments about how I should be living my life according to their views and judgements. And if I wanted to have some help, if I was going through some sadness, if I had problems... oh, they didn't want to know. The world revolved around them.
This is why I am less tolerant these days and please myself more. -
Message 46
Posted by Isabel Archer (U13716168) on Monday, 30th November 2009
As I have said Kishtu, I think you have every right to draw boundaries in this relationship and certainly should resist these sorts of demands. It wouldn't help her even if you were to give in.
But, how you do so is another matter. To me she sounds demented with grief and is to be pitied though I can see that if it were my life she was charging all over, I might not feel quite so charitable - but then is that not the value of an outside view? Can you talk to the other members of the family and see if they can persuade her to get some help?
BTW, how was she before this happened? -
Message 47
Posted by gigglemahanaz (U13930412) on Monday, 30th November 2009
From what you've said although late OH has a sister there's no other son and therein lies the problem.....sounds like he was the sun his mother's world revolved around.
As for wanting to go to his work place, I notice the manager rightly put his foot down, and wanting to read personal letters and diaries, sorry if that stuff is in your home forget it.
The poor woman needs professional help, espically as her husband works away, he may do so as a way of coping, it sound as though her own family are trying to move on and have to a certian extent.
Suggest she looks into seeing a professional and if that goes down like a lead balloon than you may have to be a little more forthright. -
Message 48
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Monday, 30th November 2009
I must admit that the fact that she has so many other family members around would tend to make me feel less charitable towards her than my original thoughts. I think I was thinking of my /own/ MiL, who is widowed and only has one son. I can imagine her doing this if, heaven forbid, I were in your situation, Kishtu.
-
Message 49
Posted by Wanda_Ofwandas (U2258758) on Monday, 30th November 2009
Kishtu
First of all, I'm DELIGHTED to hear that your life has moved on so successfully, I truly am. WW was something else (I was thinking of him only the other day) and and so are you.
Re. his mum; hmmmm. Families.
I completely understand that you don't want to cut off all communication for ever. You have an important link, whether either of you likes it or not and, as you say, there may be times in the future where it will be good to be in touch with each other.
However... she doesn't sound as if she's interested in understanding or accommodating you. Wanting to read the love letters, indeed. She wouldn't have asked while her son was here (or expected you to say yes if she had), so why on earth should it be different now?? There are boundaries. She has memories of WW as her son which are private, you have memories of him as your OH. Ditto private.
For what it's worth, I have found that tone of voice can be everything when dealing with someone difficult. Tough stuff said politely and with a smile will generally be accepted - and you may find you don't have to be tough very often before the message gets through. 'Read his letters to me? No, I don't think that would be right. Those are private.'
Be polite of course, but stonewall/ignore the barbed comments. Be ready to use the broken-record technique so that when you get the calls at work, she consistently hears: 'I can't chat while I'm at work' and then you can decide whether to follow it up with a time when you can call her. And I think it's worth *you* saying when you call *her* - you need to feel more in control of this relationship.
Blimey I'm going on (as is my wont with this sort of stuff) - do ignore anything unhelpful, please. I've been stuck in situations with 'drainers' more often than I care to remember and I simply LOATHE it. If you're anything like me, you're the one who works to keep a conversation going with someone even if you don't have much in common - drainers will start fading away if you stop making that effort. blummin' hard to start doing, but easy once you've got going.
Oh - keep screening the calls, and get your Mum to do the same. We DO have a choice about whether to pick up any call, tho' that's easily forgotten. Ummm... and could you make a point of your new partner being very much around whenever you next 'have' to see her? for one thing, it'll probably (I hope) cut down her opportunities to talk about WW..
enough already!
hugs, W -
Message 50
Posted by velveeta_dreamrabbit (U14203840) on Monday, 30th November 2009
*You'd be surprised how many friends I have, velveeta. I have invitations left, right and centre. From here and from all around the world.*
well, DCM, I'm very happy for you, indeed I am.....
Kishtu,
Expressing a desire to read your late OH's diaries is creepy to say the least. of course your late OH deserves privacy in death. I can understand your frustration with the situation. I think this lady needs serious professional help. Try to get together with the rest of her family, hopefully they will be supportive, and get her the help she is crying out for (But is not aware of it).
wishing you well.
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