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Message 1.Â
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Has anyone had a cat with an enlarged kidney?
My sixteen year old cat was diagnosed with and was being treated with Vidalta for hyperthyroidism but has subsequently been found to have an enlarged kidney and is refusing to eat.
He is no longer on the Vidalta until we can start to get him eating again and has been prescribed 'Zispin' in the hope it will help.
I'd be most grateful to hear of anyone elses experience.
Thank you. -
Message 2
Posted by blimbles (U2522058) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Hi hudsoncat - I've no experience of this, but have signposted your thread in the cat club, so hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon. I've had a couple with kidney failure, but none with enlarged kidneys.
Love to your 16 year old - is there a name?
b
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Message 3
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Sorry to hear about your poor old chap, hudsoncat.
Did the vet say/investigate why he has an enlarged kidney? Was this just discovered on physical examination and not pursued? At his age one might expect some Chronic Renal Failure. However, this condition usually leads to the kidneys shrinking and becoming very small. According to this website, there are other more likely causes:
At the very least, blood tests would indicate whether your cat has CRF or whether the cause lies elsewhere. I can understand that you/your vet might not want him to undergo invasive diagnositic procedures, but in sofar as is possible, it would be helpful in treatment to know what is going on.
Quite aside from the enlarged kidney, I was wondering whether the Vidalta could be the main cause of his inappetance. Hyperthyroid meds are powerful drugs, and some cats cannot tolerate one or more of them (there are three different drugs one can try). Side-effects include depression, lethargy and inappetance.
If you think Vidalta might have been the trigger for not eating, you might ask your vet if you can try one of the others, once he is eating again.
If your vet has been insisting that you feed your cat a particular diet that he doesn't like, and he doesn't feel well anyway, that could at least partially account for the inappetance too.
My vet will suggest a particular Prescription or Veterinary diet (always wet, never the dry version), but says that it is most important that cats eat. If cats won't eat (or eat enough) of the prescribed food, she is happy that they are fed a high quality (wet) diet more to their taste. If necessary, she advises on supplements to add to the food to make it comparable to the special Prescription or Veterinary diet.
I'd give little meals at a time, and warm the (wet) food very slightly; perhaps mash it up too in case his mouth is sore. Warming brings out the scent of food, and cats are stimulated at much by scent as by taste.
There are special convalescent diets which are smooth, palatable and high calorie, which your cat might like, e.g., Hills a/d. Vet should have it in stock. It might not be the ideal long-term diet for a cat with the problems your cat has got, but in the short term, this food can be very useful: you don't have to feed that much for cats to get the nutrition they need, so the cat doesn't have to make the effort to eat so much as with normal food.
I haven't come across Zispin. My vet prescribes Periactin (actually an anti-histamine) which is a good appetite stimulant for cats. However, I'll mention Zispin to her; one can never have too many strings to one's bow.
Hope that someone else comes along with experience of cats with enlarged kidneys. Meanwhile, feed a good good diet that your cat usually likes and make sure he has water in each room to encourage drinking. Also ask your vet about supplements to the food if necessary, and if Zispin doesn't do the trick, ask to try Periactin.
I hope your chap perks up again soon and starts eating again.
Rusty -
Message 4
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Thank you Bimbles - his name is Gus. He came to us as a 'full tom stray ' flea bitten and with an injured eye which eventually had to be removed. He has been and still is a very special cat with whom I have such a bond.
My husband and I are still in shock after suddenly losing one of our other cats only two weeks ago.We still have her brother and sister (Hudson and Lottie) thankfully. -
Message 5
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
What a lot Gus must have been through before he found you. You must still be feeling so raw after losing one of your other cats so recently. I hope Hudson and Lottie are taking comfort from each other - horrible to lose a litter mate, at whatever age.
Rusty -
Message 6
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Thank you Rusty for such a comprehensive reply.
We are trying absolutely everything to get Gus eating.
When his appetite disappeared I asked the vet if the Vidalta was at too high a dosage but she said no as she felt a 'mass' in his abdomen which she thought was the cause. That is when we stopped the Vidalta believing it could be of no further use and I was taking him home to have a little time longer before losing him.
Twice we have arranged for the vet to come to the house to put him to sleep and twice we have cancelled not feeling justified in doing so.
It was only to-day after I called the vet to discuss what we ought to do,as the strain of seeing him refuse and refuse food was so distressing I was asked by this other vet to let him examin him and in doing so believed what Gus had was an enlarged kidney.
If this drug gets him eating we will need to address how his hyperthyroidism is to be treated and I will ask the question if Vidalta could have caused the loss of appetite.
It then leaves the question of why he has an enlarged kidney and what we can do about that. -
Message 7
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Frustrating that the weekend is getting in the way of further vet input (if that is what is needed at this point).
Wondering if the vet gave Gus another steroid injection, if the first had worn off by about now. That would keep him fairly pain and inflammation free, and possibly even help his appetite a bit. I know steroids (the anti-inflammatory type, not the anabolic) aren't always the ideal, depending on the problem, but they can enhance quality of life and make cats comfortable.
I particularly feel for you and Gus at the moment as my little old Stripey (Busy Lizzie) isn't eating at all well at the moment, despite getting a (fairly) clean bill of health recently. OH went out and got himself take away fish and chips a little while ago, and madam decided she might just be able to......she ate most of his fish. Wouldn't have thought of it myself; she isn't keen on fish I cook or fish-flavoured cat food.
Love to Gus (and Hudson and Lottie).
Rusty -
Message 8
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Strange, isn't it? My two won't eat fish at all...except for fish and chip shop fish.
So sorry to hear about Gus. I hope you can get him eating again. -
Message 9
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Saturday, 12th December 2009
Nor mine, though I'm not bothered really as fish insn't a natural food for cats. Still, it is high in animal protein (duh) and white fish is easy to digest unless cats have a sensitivity to it or are prone to bladder problems.
Wha'ever, I'm so relieved Stripe has eaten at last - even then she needed the Periactin to kick-start her. Back to the vet on Monday unless she really picks up.
Rusty -
Message 10
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
Thank you to those who offered words of advice and concern.
I'm sorry to relate that Gus is no better and we continue to be in this heartbreaking place.The vet said we should see an improvement by this afternoon but sadly this is not the case so far.
Just how long to leave him is the just the worst thing.How he has continued for these past two weeks I don't know.
When we lost one of our dogs in January and Kiki only two weeks ago a decision had to be made quickly and I knew I was doing the right thing.
I am really struggling with this. -
Message 11
Posted by blimbles (U2522058) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
Hudsoncat, so sorry to read that there is little improvement in his appetite. We went through this ealier this year with our Merlin (RIP). We had to keep the other marauding cat out of the way as we fed Merlin, as her presence put him off even more. I would sit with him and feed him from my fingers and this got an little bit more down him than what he would take from a bowl. Little and often was the key and I would bring food to wherever he was in the house and feed tit bits. It is very hard to take when their appetites go. It is possible to force feed using a syringe, with mashed up food, to get them over a hump and on the road to recovery.
My heart goes out to you re what decision to take. It's very difficult to take that final step, especially when it is not an emergency and seems more premditated. It is however one of the kindest things we can do for them, heartbreaking though it is.
Loads of vibes comung from here to you. Bless you and poor Gus.
b
x -
Message 12
Posted by laReine-Astrid (U10636638) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
Very sorry to read this, Hudsoncat.
If only you can hang on in there until tomorrow and try some of Rusty's advice. The Periactin, if possible, to up his appetiite and the Hill's a/d is worth a try.
As blimbles says, sometimes, if you can just get them over the hump of inappetance, you can get them eating again. Hasn't he had anything at all?
Here's a link giving advice on syringe feeding:
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Message 13
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm sure there are many who have been in this position. To know there are those of you out there who can empathise is a support.
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Message 14
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
He has had virtually nothing since Friday.The tiniest slivers of cooked chicken fed to him by hand and he has drunk water of his own freewill.
Over the past two weeks we have tried every possible food to no avail.
I will speak to the vet tomorrow. -
Message 15
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
I've had to syringe feed my cats twice because they just wouldn't eat. Seems to be a common reaction to illness in some cats.
Once they started feeling a bit better, they just started eating again - usually off of my plate. I wonder why something that is irresistible on my plate becomes an insult when put in their own dishes. -
Message 16
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Sunday, 13th December 2009
Sorry that Gus still hasn't really eaten, hudsoncat. It's awful not to know what to do for the best: if you knew why he wasn't eating, it would help make up your mind. As it is, no way of knowing at the moment whether he is not eating because of a specific illness, or ill because he isn't eating (which *could* have been triggered off by the Vidalta). Once cats stop eating, it can be quite difficult to get them to start again.
Obviously you will be guided by your instincts, the vet's input and by Gus himself, but I think he must get food into him very soon if he is to have a chance. (Whether or not you and the vet think that is in his best interests is another thing of course.)
If you and the vet think that Gus doesn't have an actual imminently fatal illness, s/he might want to take Gus in and insert a temporary feeding tube, which is the most efficient (and surprisingly well-tolerated) way of feeding.
Sometimes animals are sent home after a day or two with the tube in situ (in neck or stomach) with instructions on how to feed through it, or else with it removed but with advice to syringe feed, usually in conjunction with hand-feeding and putting food down, because once the food meets stomach it can stimulate a cat to eat on his own, even if only a little to begin with.
If the vet does suggest syringe-feeding (usually by feeding Hills a/d, do ask if one of the staff can demonstrate how it is done (how to hold cat, angle syringe, how little in one mouthful, time between mouthfuls, how much in one sitting, how much per day). laRA's link looks pretty comprehensive too.
Sad decision if you think it is best to end things for Gus, but it is the kindest last act we can perform for our beloved animals. I try and hang to the thought that death isn't necessarily the enemy.
As has been said more than once over the years in the Cat Club, cats live in the present, so if we don't grieve while they are still with us, they won't pick up on our stress.
Thinking of you and Gus tonight.
Rusty -
Message 17
Posted by greensparklybejewelledone (U2283175) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:46 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 16
Hi Hudsoncat,
Sorry I missed this thread - I was away for a few days. Very sorry to hear about his problems, and isn't it typical that the weekend would get in the way.
I've assist fed cats and it was always to get them over a blip until they started eating again, and it always worked, though it can take a while. It's just awful watching a cat not eat. I got a huge amount of help from the Feline Assisted Feeding yahoo group
THe people there are hugely knowledgable about what foods work best in syringes, how to do it with the least amount of upset to the cat, and so forth.
I have often used periactin and found it very helpful indeed. It usually kicks in within half-an-hour or so of dosing, and can make them quite clingy too. Scamp always liked to be stroked when eating - it seemed to help him (for normal feeding I mean, not syringe feeding).
I agree with Rusty that a feeding tube might be a good idea. It's quite common in the USA, and my vet friend there has had some remarkable success with feeding tubes for cats that have become anorexic for a variety of reasons. Some types of tube are not so much of a big deal and are well tolerated by the cat. Over here, vets' opinions on this differ, however, and some of them are not too keen (or experienced). If his current state could be seen as a blip, rather than an inevitable part of a specific condition, it might very well be worth trying, and I would raise the possibility with your vet. Again, the people on the yahoo feline assisted feeding group are immensely knowledgable and experienced about tube feeding and I highly recommend them. The group is moderated by a vet, so as not to be giving out irresponsible advice.
I hadn't heard of Zispin (an anti-depressant in humans which is often given to the elderly) being used for feline use, but when I Googled I found it on Tanya's site (very good comprehensive site on crf ) in the section on persuading your cat to eat. It says that it should be used with caution in cats with hyperthyroidism.
I don't think that the enlarged kidney can be CRF - AFAIK, when the kidneys are failing/declining they shrink, rather than become enlarged. I don't know what the implications of an enlarged kidney are.
If his current condition /is/ inevitable due to something about to be diagnosed, then perhaps you're right that this is the time to end it, and yes, I do believe that a painfree death is a precious gift that we give our beloved animals. I do very much hope that you're not at that stage yet though.
Thinking of you both,
gj
x -
Message 18
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Thank you again Rusty.
This is the agony of the situation as I don't know the reason why he has stopped eating.Whether it was caused by the Vidalta, the enlarged kidney, something else or even the outcome should this latest drug have helped.
Unless we got him eating we couldn't investigate further the kidney problem or address the hyperthyroidism again.
I now feel his condition is critical and the poor man can't possibly continue much longer.Or perhaps I should say I/we can't let him.
I will call at the vets in the morning but feel I am steeling myself to lose the dearest most special cat a person could ever have and I can't imagine being without him. -
Message 19
Posted by greensparklybejewelledone (U2283175) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:18 GMT, in reply to hudsoncat in message 18
Ah hudsoncat, it's so difficult, isn't it? It's so hard to know when it's something they'll get through and when it isn't, but I assume the vet will advise.
Sending gentle furfles and eye kisses to Gus, and thinking of you,
gj
x -
Message 20
Posted by laReine-Astrid (U10636638) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Thinking of you, Hudson.
The main thing is that you and your OH obviously care about Gus a great deal, so you will do whatever is necessary. I do hope you get the help you need from your vet.
All the best
laRA -
Message 21
Posted by supertillypops (U7654482) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Hudsoncat has asked me to let you all know that Gus was pts at home this morning. She also wanted to thank all you kind people for your invaluable support and advice.
stp -
Message 22
Posted by blimbles (U2522058) on Monday, 14th December 2009
stp, thanks for letting us know.
Please pass my thoughts on to hudsoncat - it's a horrible thing to go through.
Sniff.
b
x -
Message 23
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Monday, 14th December 2009
So sorry to read about Gus, stp. It must have been a heartbreaking decision, albeit the right one.
Please pass on my condolences to Hudsoncat.
RIP Gus. -
Message 24
Posted by greensparklybejewelledone (U2283175) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:40 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 23
Ah I'm so sorry, stp. It was of course the right and kindest thing to do but horriby difficult. Please pass on my sympathy to Hudsoncat. And RIP dear Gus.
gj
x -
Message 25
Posted by laReine-Astrid (U10636638) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Please pass on my best wishes to her, stp. And a gentle goobye to Gus.
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Message 26
Posted by supertillypops (U7654482) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Thank you, everyone, She came over and we walked her dog on the edge of flooded fields. Her O/H couldn't face being there when the vet came so took the dog out and he just wanted to be on his own after the vet had left. Hudsoncat needed to talk and that's what we did. Everyone deals with it differently, don't they? I know I always need to talk things through. Gus will be buried next to Kiki who was pts 2 weeks ago. Thanks for your kind words.
stp -
Message 27
Posted by greensparklybejewelledone (U2283175) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:11 GMT, in reply to supertillypops in message 26
Very much so, stp. I'm glad they both got what they needed, in the circs. Poor Hdsoncat & OH though, first Kiki and then Gus. Big ML hugs to them both.
gj
x -
Message 28
Posted by supertillypops (U7654482) on Monday, 14th December 2009
Agreed, gj, and the poor man's sadness is just as deep.
stp -
Message 29
Posted by hudsoncat (U14253669) on Tuesday, 15th December 2009
To all the kind people who have given their words of advice and support for Gus, my husband and I sincerely thank you. My good friend kindly posted the saddest of news I was unable to type that Gus was pts yesterday.
It was one of the hardest decisions I have ever made and just as hard to get my husband to accept what we had to do,not for us but for Gus.
Everyone of our pets is special but those of you who have been lucky enough to have an animal come into your lives the way Gus did and wrap themselves around your heart you will understand the enormous hole he has left.
x -
Message 30
Posted by Carol Tregorran (U8943346) on Tuesday, 15th December 2009
Indeed we do understand, Hudsoncat; sympathy to you & to your husband.
Run free on the Rainow Bridge with Kiki, Gus. -
Message 31
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Tuesday, 15th December 2009
It is avery hard decision, hudsoncat, however much you know it is the right one for the cat's sake.
The sharp grief afterwards is awful, but once that has eased a bit, you will be able to think of Gus without such sadness. The grief never really goes away, of course, but I think we learn to accommodate it.
Rusty
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