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Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 1.聽
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Monday, 1st March 2010
This was the dramatic title of a recent article in a Sunday paper review page. According to the article while short stories are still widely published in the USA, on this side of the Atlantic they have undergone a sharp decline.
There was a time when British and Irish short story writers were internationally successful: Sherlock Holmes owes his existence almost entirely to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle鈥檚 short fiction; W. Somerset Maugham, Rudyard Kipling, Saki, James Joyce, D.H. Lawrence and, more recently, Frank O鈥機onnor and V.S. Pritchett have been among the genre鈥檚 best exponents. Currently though, only William Trevor enjoys international success. Martin Amis, Salman Rushdie and Sadie Smith have written short stories, but they are not considered world class practitioners in this sphere.
The short story has a rich history in the USA, thanks initially to the 19th century proliferation of mass-market magazines such as Harper鈥檚 and The Atlantic Monthly, which catered to an ever-growing urban audience with a taste for short stories that could be consumed in one sitting. The 20th century saw the launch of magazines like The New Yorker, Esquire and Playboy. The opportunity to be widely read and highly paid meant the greatest writers took the genre very seriously: Ernest Hemingway, John Cheever, Raymond Carver (and Maugham) were major contributors to these publications.
However, even in America the situation is now less rosy than it used to be. Fewer large-circulation magazines are publishing fiction and those that do are no longer paying generous fees; and publishing houses are increasingly less likely to take a chance on short-story collections, especially from new authors.
Nevertheless, despite the ever-shrinking market, the short story continues to thrive in the US. This is mainly thanks to state and university sponsorship and to a growing number of small, subsidised presses which are publishing collections that would have been snapped up by the major publishing houses even a decade ago. If the short story is to be revitalised on this side of the Atlantic we should probably look to the American model.
Confession time: I鈥檝e not been a particular fan of short stories, with the notable exception of Maugham鈥檚. This might be because I graduated from nursery rhymes and fairy stories straight on to full-length children鈥檚 novel. Even now I find many short stories curiously unsatisfying and contrived. I think, too, that the short story needs a very particular skill, which not all writers possess. As a well-novelist (wish I could remember who) said recently: one needs to keep a tight grip when writing short stories as opposed to a novel, one cannot get away with any 鈥渂aggy-ness鈥.
Maugham鈥檚 short stories and novellas are beautifully crafted and paced. His stories range from light and amusing to dark and rather cruel, and I can read a whole collection in one sitting without becoming jaded. I particularly like his tales of life in the Malaya of civil servants and tea and rubber planters. I gather he based many of his characters on the people he met on his travels, and wasn鈥檛 too careful about disguising them, either.
Thanks to ML I have been introduced to Jane Gardam, whose short stories I now enjoy as much as her full-length novels. Apart from Maugham and Gardam though, I have read mostly science fiction short stories, e.g., by John Wyndham and J.G. Ballard and some of the more hard-core sci-fi too. The sci-fi genre seems to lend itself to the short story.
In a recent ML book thread, someone posted that they are no longer enthused by new novels, and that there are only so many times one can go back to the classics or 鈥渙ld鈥 friends. I am beginning to feel the same way and would like your recommendations for short story writers.
By the way, I have just seen that one can read on-line short stories published by Granta. Among the authors are Jim Crace, Alan Hollinghurst and Helen Simpson:
RustyLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 2
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Monday, 1st March 2010
Here is the link to the Book Club Rota thread, where you will find details of future Book Club discussions:
F2693944?thread=7209674Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 3
Posted by Herb Robert (U14072548) on Monday, 1st March 2010
Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:32 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 1
I think, too, that the short story needs a very particular skill聽
Isn't that the truth? I remember reading in one of those write-your-own novel books many decades ago that most writers start out by writing poems; when they find out they can't do that, they try their hand at short stories; and when they realise what a hard task that is, they move on to novels.
I wonder if our experience as readers is not similar, though maybe in reverse? And what I've always felt is that, particularly with so-called literary fiction, it is best to approach the short story as a poem in prose rather than as a shorter version of a novel.
In fact, is there a difference between a /novella/ and a /short/ /story/ as the terms are used today? It is quite an uneasy category of fiction, the decline of which may have much to do with the demise of magazines that you talked about just now, Rusters. We'll be discussing one recent collection of short stories in the March book club, so I'll just remind you here of David Vann's "Legend of a suicide" for an example of how the short story can flourish and do what perhaps no other form can do.
My OH finds Penelope Lively's short stories worth reading, though I must say I find them rather dull most of the time.
Sorry, I seem to have rambled on a bit without saying a great deal. I hope others can point us in the direction of quality short stories.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 4
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Monday, 1st March 2010
I'm not a big fan of short stories either (except in foreign languages, where a full novel will tax my language skills beyond their limits.)
But I am just reading Stephen King's Just After Sunset, which is a collection of short stories (not his first, either,) from 2008. The introduction is quite interesting - he started writing short stories for magazines, but some of his novels are very long. He wrote fewer and fewer short stories through the '80s and '90s, and felt he'd rather lost the knack, having never previously considered that it's a different skill from writing a full-length novel, and also he felt that he had some short stories in him that never got written and were then forgotten, because he was too busy finishing novels. Then he was asked to edit the 2006 Best American Short Stories and had to read hundreds of short stories over the year, and he got back into writing short stories himself again as a result. There are also some notes at the back on how he came to write each story, though I've not read that far yet, and not flicked forward as I've been reading each one.
Of course, SK is more popular fiction than literary fiction, but he can tell a story, IMO, and I'm enjoying them, some more than others. (That would probably be a valid statement for any collection of short stories, I enjoyed some more than others.)
The only other short stories I remember having read at all recently was a collection of erotic short stories, which probably have a slightly different aim...I do sometimes read some in the weekend newspapers when they have them there. I think they are different from novels, there's usually more implied than might be stated in a full novel. Though also, that is down to an author's style as well.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 5
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 1st March 2010
Short story writing is hard. To establish subject, character, setting and deliver a story within a limited number of words is a test for the writer's skill.
The first short stories I recall reading when I was still at school were by 'Q', Quiller Couch, a Cornishman and an academic. And one I have never forgotten is 'The Roll-Call of the Reef'.
Conan Doyle and G.K.Chesterton wrote short stories about their detectives - Sherlock Holmes and Father Brown.
The Holmes stories move out from the familiar background of 221a Baker Street where not the smallest item in Holmes' room must be out of place. The reader settles down, confident that Mrs. Hudson will bustle in with loaded tray of food, hoping to tempt the Great Detective to the table. Faithful Watson will have his trusty revolver somewhere handy, and a locum at the ready so his long suffering patients can cope in his absence. A knock on the door and Holmes is alert, ready for the next case. The reader rests content.
I will come back to Father Brown another day if I may.
I do hope someone is much more knowledgable about modern ss than me!.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 6
Posted by plum the depths (U5587356) on Monday, 1st March 2010
Well sitting here thinking about this, I was going to write that I'm not overly fond of the short story but as I'm dwell more on my thoughts I realize that over the years I have greatly enjoyed this genre- if that is the right word.
Coo that sentence alone is practically a short story in its self.
Many years ago I read a collection of ss by Noel Coward and I thought them very good. In fact I remember many of them in great detail.
I love the PJ Wodehouse ss of Jeeves and Wooster.
On a different plain I really liked the ss of Alexei Sayle. I read Barcelona Plates and others. Quite thought provoking and a couple of them have stayed with me.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 7
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
I am not a big fan of short stories either. However, let me throw one name into the pot....
SAKILink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 8
Posted by ali (U14257944) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
Interesting topic, Rusty.
I am not a fan either, but share your appetite for the sf short story. Asimov, to my mind, beats the lot here. Did you read 'Nightfall'? One of the best ever I think. Also I used to read Somerset Maugham, and find that some of them still come to mind - didn't he write one about a civil servant who retired to the Far East and planned to live just long enough to use up his money. Then, of course, he lived a lot longer....interesting. And the couple who were supposed to be married, but were in fact siblings. He was a master.
I'm looking forward to learning of new writers who have explored the ss, and who I can maybe learn to enjoy. I agree with Herb Robert, maybe we need to employ more, or different, reader skills when reading a ss.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 9
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
your appetite for the sf short story. Asimov, to my mind, beats the lot here.聽
It may just be the way I've selected my reading in the past, but it seems to me there are more short stories and anthologies of them in the scifi/fantasy genres.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 10
Posted by rainbowLaure (U8486235) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
Ali, interesting that you should mention Asimov. When thinking of my non-appreciation of the short story form, I completely disregarded science fiction. Stupid.
Ray Bradbury wrote some brilliant short stories and there are many, many sci-fi writers whose short stories are admirable.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 11
Posted by Soup Dragon (U10698998) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
The Destructors was the first Graham Greene I read and I'm not sure it was bettered, for me. Similarly I dearly love EM Forster's Celestial Omnibus collection: such elegance and economy of writing combined.
Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 12
Posted by Herb Robert (U14072548) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:57 GMT, in reply to Bearhug in message 9
it seems to me there are more short stories and anthologies of them in the scifi/fantasy genres.聽
I think that's right - there certainly used to be quite a few specialist magazines around. I'm rather out of touch with that particular genre now, so I'm not sure if they're still going - /Interzone/ was the name of one of them.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 13
Posted by Cushie Butterfield (U14330784) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
Another excellent writer of SF short stories: John Wyndham
eg Consider Her Ways, The Seeds of Time
In some of these stories he explored different ideas of travelling into the future, eg
- moving with your own current body
- moving into your own very old body but current mind
- moving into someone else's body
In each case there was sufficient characterisation to sympathise with the main character, which can often be lacking in SF.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 14
Posted by Cushie Butterfield (U14330784) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
An excellent current writer of short stories:
Alice Munro, a Canadian author.
I was recently given 'Hateship, Friendship, Courtship, Loveship, Marriage' - published 2001 -
and have eagerly devoured her earlier and subsequent works.
They are mostly set in rural Canada in various eras, telling the story of believable folk, but usually with surprising twists in the plot. Her writing style has won prizes, seems simple at first but is actually dense and complex.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 15
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010
Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:16 GMT, in reply to Sophy Stanton-Lacy in message 14
I have just read A Country Doctor's Notebook, by Mikhail Bulgakov and Michael Glennie (translator). Mostly a casebook, but completely different from his later work. I'm trying to read "The Master and Margarita" I hope it improves, but the short stories in the first mentioned are very enjoyable.
Chekhov wrote some beautiful short stories too.
I certainly enjoyed Anne McCaffrey's collection "Get off the Unicorn", and there are many collections of short stories in Science Fiction. There was a Russion pair, surname Lev, who wrote some very good stories.
To find short stories, go to the Z section after general fiction in the library and see what you find. Lots of surprises and enjoyment.
We don't often think of them this way, but "The Canterbury Tales" by Geoffrey Chaucer are excellent for a slow train journey. And Boccaccio's tales too, contemporaneous with Chaucer. Not modern, but if modern readers have not encountered them, they are very readable and enjoyable in translation.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 16
Posted by Herb Robert (U14072548) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
The number and quality of short story writers noted above is indeed impressive, and I would certainly put Saki, Wodehouse and Chekhov, in their different ways, up there with the very greatest.
But none of this really answers the question: Is the short story dead? Does anyone see a future for this genre? Obvious places where it persists are in literary magazines and, at the other extreme, in what for want of a better word I would call women's magazines.
I think the short story is heading for the same sort of treatment as poetry: the classics will always be read, but in contemporary life there is a sharp split between the highbrow and doggerel. Both serve a need, and it would be churlish to deny either a place.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 17
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:53 GMT, in reply to Herb Robert in message 16
There is one on Radio 4 every afternoon. When they aren't boring us with American history. I think maybe library based book clubs should include the short story collections in their lists.
I do think they need something specific like SF or ghosts of one kind or another to give them a bit of oomph. For a writer, it is a very good discipline to get to grips with plotting and not ramblins.
I'd say it is not dead. Many writers do them from time to time, and they reappear from time to time. You can wait for a long time for the next good one though.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 18
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
It鈥檚 interesting to see how many of us here are not that enthused by the short story genre in general. I suppose it isn鈥檛 a genre in the usual sense, because it encompasses so many other genres. It would seem that sci-fi, horror and the supernatural particularly lend themselves to the short story format, as does the mystery genre. I have read that Stephen King is an excellent writer who more or less fell by accident into writing horror. Horror isn't a favourite of mine, but I read and enjoyed a short story of SK's hat was published in a Sunday paper magazine a while back; can鈥檛 remember much about it but it wasn鈥檛 hard core horror.
Interesting too that so few contemporary writers have been mentioned here: Penelope Lively (not with much enthusiasm, HR!), Stephen King, Alexei Sayle and Alice Munro.
Posts here have reminded me that I do like stuff by Wodehouse and Conan Doyle too. Not read any Chesterton, sj, but the Father Brown stories were on Radio 4 some years back. I think they would make great Sunday night telly-viewing too. Just read 鈥楺鈥 Quiller Couch鈥檚 The Roll-Call of the Reef, on line, which I thought touching as well as a bit creepy.
Re Saki 鈥 just about everyone I know has heard of him, but not actually read him; definitely something for me to remedy. Thank heavens for libraries.
Wasn鈥檛 aware that E.M. Forster had written short stories. I do like his novels, but I do feel a bit bogged down towards the end of them; maybe he should have concentrated on shorter works!
Back to sci-fi: Asimov is one of my favourite sci-fi writers 鈥 far better, and more sympathetic, than the other two of his generation often mentioned in the same breath, Arthur C. Clarke and Robert Heinlein. Haven鈥檛 read Asimov鈥檚 Nightfall, Ali, but another one for me to remedy.
Just finished reading 鈥 well, rereading 鈥 Ray Bradbury鈥檚 The Martian Chronicles, some of which I find incredibly sad and poignant (Ylla, for instance).
John Wyndham is another favourite of mine. In fact, some of his best plots are in his short stories. I remember the stories you mention, Sophy (the Grand Sophy?), especially the sad and horrific one of the young woman from the future being transported into the body of a 20th C old woman. Someone in ML once said that she thought Wyndham portrayed women very sympathetically 鈥 not something that can be said for a lot of sci-fi.
Rwth,I do enjoy Anne McCaffrey鈥檚 short stories, and some of her novels too (in particular The Ship Who Sang, Decision at Doona and Restoree). However, she doesn鈥檛 always sustain my belief in her alien worlds, but seems to run out of steam. That doesn鈥檛 happen with her short stories.
RustyLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 19
Posted by Herb Robert (U14072548) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:36 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 18
I feel that I can't let all this pass without mentioning M.R. James, whose classic ghost stories still have the power to chill.
A modern collection which I have found immensely rewarding is John McGaHern's (2006) /Creatures/ /of/ /the/ /Earth/, which /the/ /guardian/ described as "the finest body of short stories published by any Irish writer in recent years." Which, when you consider that that must include William Trevor, is praise indeed.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 20
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:49 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 18
I particularly enjoyed H. G Wells' short stories. "The Purple Pileus", "The Man who liked Dickens", "The truth about Pyecraft"
I remember a set of short stories that O/H brought with him into our lives, about a pair of divorce court judges who tell each other stories about how and why marriages fell apart. The book was called "Matrimonial Causes" but can't remember the author just now. There was one about a woman who turned up for a rendezvous with her next husband only to find a parcel of nasty indian tea at the house waiting for her. It reminded her about an acquaintance talking about another woman saying "I'd give her away with a pound of tea", so she realises what a fool she's being and dumps him rightaway. They don't all end happily though. I'd say it has helped us keep our marriage going by recognising the signs.
Some stories are gruesome, and I had to listen to the neighbour's kids telling the nastiest one to the eight year olds at my daughter's party. I didn't dare intervene because it would only have drawn attention to the tale and they would have told it again some other time. At least it wasn't as graphic as I remembered. I hope they all forgot it, or weren't affected by it. The boy who told the story is a highly qualified metallurgist probably a professor by now.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 21
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
Just remembered Daphne du Maurier's "The Birds" which was in a book of her short stories. Frightening story and even more frightening film -Hitchcock? [at the time.]
Can I cheer myself and recall John Mortimer's "Rumpole of the Bailey" stories, such a comfort. Do they count as short stories?.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 22
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010
Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:16 GMT, in reply to silverjenny in message 21
Kipling. One of the best story tellers ever. How about fairy tales? They are short stories - they fit absolutely naturally into "short story length".Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 23
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:11 GMT, in reply to Rusters in message 1
Flzing visit from Ezoria:
I love the short storz and can think of several writers who do both short storz and novels verz successfullz - Rushdie, for one. Read 'East, West'. R. K. Narayan is another yho is a consummate short storz teller, as yell as novelist (although his novels do tend to be short.) Drzstane has mentioned Kipling; another of the same general tzpe but slightlz later in time yas Somerset Maugham. More contemporarz is A.S. Bzatt, yhose short stories are yonderful reads. And then there is Thurber and Mark Tyain among American yriters. As much as I disliked Salinger's novels, I loved his short stories - 'For Esme with love and Squalor' is a favourite. Yoodz Allen also yrites a mean short storz.
I'm verz luckz in that I grey up in a familz that subscribed to the Ney Zorker so the short storz yas a yeeklz offering to be savoured.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 24
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:54 GMT, in reply to E Yore - pointless pedant in message 23
Hoy could I forget mz favourite short storz yriter - the inimitable O. Henrz, he of the tyist-in-the-tale ending. He produced several collections of short stories, some set in the West (often around San Antonio, Tx), some set in Ney Zork Citz and one collection - Cabbages and Kings - set in a South American banana republic, yhere each storz is stand-alone, but the yhole collection looselz forms a narrative.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 25
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Have to admit to loving "To Esm茅 with love and squalor" myself but I do have trouble with short stories and novellas. I know they are an art form and all that but I prefer something a little longer, so I can get to know the characters well and learn to care about them. Might make an exception for William Trevor - The Ballroom of Romance is very special. He is one of my favourite writers.
LynnieP xLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 26
Posted by ali (U14257944) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
I've been reminded of John Wyndham, in this thread. A writer who, I think, has been under-appreciated for the last 20 or so years. I have now made a note to return to his books, and look at his short stories.
And what about M.R. James? When I was a young girl I was absorbed by his stories, full of Victorian Horror. The Mezzotint was one - here it is.
It is wordy, and maybe difficult to read which perhaps illustrates the points made earlier about short story reading requiring maybe a bit more input from the reader, but I was enthralled by it when I was young. I think maybe the old-fashioned style contributed to my fascination, words were being used in a far more ornate and flowery manner than I was used to. A bit different from Enid Blyton then. (No criticism of EB intended, I loved her books).
At the time I discovered him, a lot of the language he used was difficult to understand, but nevertheless the atmosphere he created really drew me in.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 27
Posted by ali (U14257944) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Drystane Dyke - lovely that you thought of Fairy Tales. I have lots of books of Fairy Tales, an excellent collection of all kinds of stories, and you are so right. I never thought of them as belonging to the 'short story' genre, but what a valuable contribution they are. And some are very dark, too. What's your favourite?
And does anyone write modern Fairy Tales?Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 28
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:35 GMT, in reply to ali-cat in message 27
And does anyone write modern Fairy Tales?聽
I think Marina Yarner's collection 'Yonder Tales' could be considered to be modern Fairz Tales.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 29
Posted by Herb Robert (U14072548) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:52 GMT, in reply to E Yore - pointless pedant in message 28
Sorry, E Yore, but what has happened to your keyboard? It's getting quite difficult to decipher your messages.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 30
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
It's Ezorian and means EYore is in furrin parts on a furrin keyboard.
I have been known to type Ezorian when I am at tLG's on his German keyboard.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 31
Posted by ali (U14257944) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
I think it adds a certain mystery and piquancy to your messages, Bearhug.
xxLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 32
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
I do rather like the idea of a writer called O.Heinz but can only assume it was O. Henry that E.Yore meant. Did O.Henry write the story about the couple who wanted to but each other Christmas presents and, having no money, sold their most precious belonging. He sold his watch to buy her a hair ornament and she sold her long hair [wonder if you still do that?] to buy him a watch chain.
Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 33
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:27 GMT, in reply to silverjenny in message 32
Herb, I am a touch tzpist used to tzping on a French kezboard but am at present visiting familz in qwertz-land, aka Syitwerland.
Silverjennz, the short storz zou mention is indeed O. Henrz's 'The Gift of the Magi'. He also yrote 'The Ransom of Red Chief' yhere the kidnappers of a small child have to paz the father in the end to take him back ...Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 34
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Thursday, 4th March 2010
Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:18 GMT, in reply to E Yore - pointless pedant in message 33
I think the most memorable of O Henry's tales was the Hanging at Owl Bridge. Excellent, and I saw a short film of it and they didn't let him down in terms of quality.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 35
Posted by Saflar (U13659353) on Friday, 5th March 2010
It's interesting how many people are saying they don't really like the short story form. I happen to love it, but only really since I have discovered writers like Alice Munro and Jhumpa Lahiri. I think when a short story works, as these writers' stories invariably do, they portray what is essentially a snapshot of some contemporary yet timeless situation peopled by characters that seem to live and breathe and which you really care about and believe in. A number of the short story writers mentioned above, their stories have a slightly antiquated feel to them. Perhaps the authors were writing to order for a particular readership and so the stories haven't weathered the passing decades as well as their novels may have done.
I think the short story has a future, particularly now with so many internet publications out there. It's a relatively easy access form for new writers and the internet I would have thought lends itself to the form. Anyone can perform or blog now because of the internet. Sure, there'll be a lot of dross, but I think the better stuff will out.
But I really can't recommend Jhumpa Lahiri and Alice Munro enough. Beautiful and perfect stories.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 36
Posted by ali (U14257944) on Friday, 5th March 2010
Funny though, as Saflar says it's interesting how many people are saying they don't really like short stories. Including me. And then we go on to list those that we've enjoyed. Maybe a short story has more impact than a novel, and maybe we like them more than we realise.
Haven't read Jumpa Lahiri - jotted the name down though for future reference, thank you.
xLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 37
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Friday, 5th March 2010
Ali, perhaps we don't like the idea of short stories in general but find ourselves remembering stories we have loved for a long time. Is the answer to the OP is no, the short story is not dead, just a little frail?.
One of my favourite books, "Hawkfall" by George Mackay Brown, has short stories covering a variety of subjects. And yet I didn't think of it when we began discussing the short story. GMB has stories of people in Orkney past and present and his work has the haunting quality of a fable.
Lines such as this from 'The Tarn and the Rosary'
" A gentleness of beard and eyes came in at the door at thickening light with fish and an oar: his father".
is almost a story in itself.
or
" Hens screeched round a shower of oats from Old Merran's fist'.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 38
Posted by ali (U14257944) on Friday, 5th March 2010
Hi Silverjenny
What lovely imagery. He definitely has the art of describing normal things in a way which is unusual, but simple, and graphic. Reading those two quotes made me smile, and say 'oh yes' because I immediately got the picture.
Another one for the list, which is now quite long. Pity the purse is short! I always said if I ever won millions, the second thing I would do would be to order dozens and dozens of books that I've always wanted, or that I need to replace because the originals have been worn out or lost or lent to someone who hasn't returned them.
xxLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 39
Posted by Saflar (U13659353) on Friday, 5th March 2010
I've been thinking a bit more about this problem with short stories.. and I wanted to add that, as far as I know, Alice Munro only writes short stories. I think many writers have used the short story as a way to get into the writing profession in the first place with The Novel as the big goal and so perhaps they are either not producing their best work or they are writing in a form which doesn't suit them or they simply don't take it as seriously as they would the novel. I suppose it could be likened to a visual artist painting purely in water colours and gaining the most from that medium by really understanding what water colours can produce, compared with another artist who dabbles with water colours for a while but is really only interested in oils. I don't know, I'm not an artist, and I'm sure there is a better analogy.
I agree with the William Trevor recs above. And thanks for the link to Granta, (sorry, not sure which poster that was. Rusty?)Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 40
Posted by ForeverAmbridge (U14194783) on Friday, 5th March 2010
And does anyone write modern Fairy Tales?
Angela Carter -
The Bloody Chamber
Burning your Boats - collection of her short stories.
As grim as Grimm some of them.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 41
Posted by ForeverAmbridge (U14194783) on Friday, 5th March 2010
'Scuse my rudeness for putting my oar in. Have just discovered this book group.
Do I need to join?Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 42
Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Friday, 5th March 2010
You join the Club just by posting, FA. Welcome aboard. Was just thinking about Angela Carter. Very strange, slightly disturbing books. I only read 'The Magic Toyshop' once, years ago, but remember it well.
Just remembered another contemporary writer I like: Annie Proulx. I actually prefer her short stories to her novels; found 'The Shipping News' rather hard going, to be honest. Her stuff is spare and bleak, which suits the short story format.
RustyLink to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 43
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Friday, 5th March 2010
Oddly enough, Rusters, I am the other way round with Annie Proulx. I read 'The Shipping News' with no prior knowledge of it at all and enjoyed it. I find her short stories a bit heavy going perhaps because of the bleakness.
Never read Angela Carter. I will look out for her stories.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 44
Posted by ForeverAmbridge (U14194783) on Friday, 5th March 2010
And her novels eg Wise Children.
also interesting is her collection of essays, Expletives Deleted.
I have to agree with silverjenny, Rusters. Though I couldn't put down the Shipping News, I had to toss aside Accordion Crimes. Maybe I should try again?Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 45
Posted by Cushie Butterfield (U14330784) on Friday, 5th March 2010
I need to replace because the originals have been worn out聽
Ali-cat, I can hardly ever replace old favourites if the pages are still turnable at all! I have tried and the new ones just do not smell or feel right. The only exception was finding a lovely (secondhand) hardback of A E Housman's poetry to replace my decrepit paperback.
Sorry, off-topic.
Another contemporary writer: A S Byatt has occasionally written short stories for the Sunday papers, quite good I recall, but not up to her full length works.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 46
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Friday, 5th March 2010
Sophy, that reminds me of Helene Hanff[?] who wrote "84 Charing Cross Road". She couldn't bear new books and didn't mind pencilled notes from a previous owner but they had to be her own loved copies, not borrowed from the library.
I wandered off subject there, sorry.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 47
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 6th March 2010
Sat, 06 Mar 2010 09:19 GMT, in reply to Sophy Stanton-Lacy in message 45
A S Byatt has occasionally written short stories for the Sunday papers, quite good I recall, but not up to her full length works.聽
I beg to differ: Byatt's short stories (and there are at least 2 collections of them published) are far better than her full length works. Imo, Byatt's novels are remarkably boring and I cannot get into any of them. But her short stories are little jewels to be savoured.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 48
Posted by Cushie Butterfield (U14330784) on Saturday, 6th March 2010
Happy to hear other views on A S Byatt, E Yore, and will look out for the anthologies. Maybe Sunday papers are not the best format or timimg for stories anyway.
SilverJenny, I love Helene Hanff and '84 Charing Cross Road' is one of my treasured and falling-to-bits paperbacks. She introduced me to so many other books which I then went out to find. Have you read 'The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street' about the trip she eventually managed to make to London?
Oh dear, more off topic stuff.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 49
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 6th March 2010
Sophy, I loved 'The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street' too. In a way, Helene did for her readers what we do in ML on our book threads: introduce our loved friends from our book shelf to someone else.
Recommendations on such threads have introduced me to books I would not have thought of reading. And in his turn 'Q',[Quller Couch] who unknowingly enthused Helene, must have done that for his students. A well deserved legacy.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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Message 50
Posted by Cushie Butterfield (U14330784) on Saturday, 6th March 2010
Helene did for her readers what we do in ML on our book threads: introduce our loved friends from our book shelf to someone else聽
As did Virginia Woolf in 'The Common Reader' and 'A Room of One's Own'. Not sure if she has been mentioned here yet, but she wrote a few good short stories as well as her better known fiction and non-fiction.
I just took down the anthology on the shelf. It includes 'Kew Gardens' and 'The Mark on the Wall', experiments with no real plot, but satisfying and painting a vivid picture.Link to this forum: Book Club March 2010: Is the Short Story Dead?
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