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Reviving old wounds...
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Message 1.Â
Posted by NannyGoatGruff (U14519382) on Monday, 28th June 2010
Many years ago my father died. I was 14. It took several years for my mother to get round to scattering his ashes, but when she did, she chose to take my only sibling (my brother) with her. He was then in his mid-20s. She did not tell me about it until after the deed was done, and my brother has never, ever, referred to it. I was very upset at the time, but took a big swallow and decided not to say anything because what was done, could not be undone. I have never mentioned it since.
Now, 25 years on, I am faced with a dilemma. My mother re-married a few years after she was widowed, and she has recently been widowed again. She is now talking about scattering his ashes, and she has hinted that I (and my brother) should be there. My brother will probably be going, and a cousin of my mothers (who I don't know at all).
A part of me thinks that I should get over myself and go for my stepfathers sake, and to support my mother. But I am worried about the feelings that this has provoked and I think it will be a very difficult day (and from what I hear it will be a whole day of it). I am, I acknowledge, harbouring a deep and unresolved anger about how I was not supported when my father died (lots of other stuff there which I don't want to go into), and being excluded from this event so many years ago made a lasting impression on me as a young woman.
When she broached the subject with me this time round, I thought she might talk about my father, but she didn't.
I am debating whether to come straight out with what is bothering me, but I wonder if this is just NOT the right time. I may just upset her, at what is going to be an already incredibly difficult time.
I am coming over to the view that I should just make my excuses and decline the invitation, but would this be a wasted opportunity to find some resolution? -
Message 2
Posted by MV Whitby May Rose (U6862284) on Monday, 28th June 2010
Nannygoatgruff, no words of wisdom to offer but just to wish you all the best in making the decision that is right for you. It is I think an unusual situation but hopefully someone will come along who can give you some practical support.
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Message 3
Posted by ruralsnowflakebliss (U8131914) on Monday, 28th June 2010
I read through your post Nannygoatgruff and I wouldn't normally post quickly on such a personal issue. I would mull and chew it over lots! However I wonder if it would be worth sharing my in initial impression. It just struck me that because nothing has been said for so long by your mother or brother and that you were so very young at the time whether they are at all aware of your distress (very understandable it would rise up again with another bereavement). It may well be they simply don't realise what you are feeling and it would seem good to me to open and discuss this in a very non confrontational way.
It may well be there were other things happening and around the time of the first ashes being scattered and it was not meant to hurt you.
I don't know and I am speculating (apologies if I am way off here) but perhaps by not talking your mother doesn't mean to hurt you but somehow to protect you.
I think if possible you should talk to her and see what she says. It will be hard though and it might be gradual.
Perhaps it is am opportunity if you can both hear each other and do it without blame
Best of luck
RB -
Message 4
Posted by Nomadnomore - XNo - Quiz Queen (U3180380) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
I'll make no attempt to tell you what you should do about your stepfather's ashes but it does sound like you have a lot of unresolved issues around bereavement and you might benefit from counselling from an organisation such as Cruse.
I don't how much time before you have to make a decision is or what your local Cruse waiting lists are like but a GP referral will get you up their list.
25 years on may as well be this morning if it is still a source of anger and I think you need some support now to deal with it.
All the best.
XNo -
Message 5
Posted by SmoctusMole (U13882662) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Hello, Nannygoatgruff.
Great monica, btw!
Just to say,
the wisest of my many wise aunts had a good principle for these sort of dilemmas. "Better the commission than the omission".
Perhaps you will find for yourself that to support your mother when she needs you, now, and to sort out the very real problems and regrets later when you and she have leisure and calm to address them would be the wisest course?
This is just IMO, of course, and not to be taken as gospel!
Best wishes, whatever you decide. -
Message 6
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Hello NNG
It has just occurred to me as I read through the thread that the three people involved at you father's death were you, your mother and your brother.
I think I might start by talking to him.
Good luck in whatever decision you make.
Oz -
Message 7
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Hello NNG. Your post touched a nerve with me because my mother scattered my father's ashes without telling me when or where she was doing it. To be fair, she didn't tell my only sibling, either. I can't imagine why, unless she just felt she'd do it on her own. (I assume that no-one else was present).
Is your brother older than you? Perhaps your mother felt you were 'too young'. I know this is a terrible reason, but I was excluded from my Grandparents' funerals for this reason at the age of 13. Attitudes to children at funerals were different then, and presumably attitudes to scattering of ashes were, too.
As others have said, I think you do need to resolve this, and perhaps speaking to a Cruse counsellor, rather than someone in the family, at least initially, would help. I wish you all the best. -
Message 8
Posted by NannyGoatGruff (U14519382) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Thank you for all your wonderful replies! Your thoughtfulness and empathy has made me feel a little less silly about this.
I was actually in my 20's when the ashes were scattered - about 6 years after my dad died. I don't think my mother wanted to protect me!
I do realise that a large part of my bad feeling is caused by her choice to bring my brother with her and not me. I was close to my dad and felt that 'our' relationship was ignored, while her relationship with her son was reinforced. It created more resentment in a relationship which has always been full of sibling rivalry.
I have thought about talking to him but I don't have a great track record of talking things through with him. I also think that as he was in his 20s at the time he is a little bit culpable as he could have said, what about my sister? -
Message 9
Posted by pea whistle (U14517419) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
I think that I would - as calmly as possible - ask my mum why she wanted me to attend the ash scattering of my step father but not my real father.
(Having prepared myself for not liking the answer.)
Whether that is what YOU should do only you can decide.
Good luck. -
Message 10
Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Exactly so michael. It seems unexplicable to have 2 adult children and to take one of them to the scattering of their father's ashes and not the other. I would definitely want to know her reasons for this and am rather amazed that so many years have passed without any being given. Seems like a reasonable enough thing to ask. Especially now that the subject has risen.
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Message 11
Posted by Sad Border Collie (U2036041) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Nannygoatgruff, like Lily I wondered if your Mum thought you might be too young - but over 20 isn't. Maybe, your Mum sensed that you were still actively grieving and didn't want to bring things back for you. Not a good enough reason I agree but maybe she thought that. It could also have been a spur of the moment thing, she had kept your father's ashes for a long time maybe it had been on her mind then one day your broother said 'lets do it now'.
Still not a good reason but just trying to think what may have been in her mind.
When you talk to her, do remember that she had lost her husband at a young age with two teenage children and our reactions and actions surrounding grief, even later, are not always as thoughtful or logical as we might hope.
I hope you can find a way of easing your mind. -
Message 12
Posted by Vicky S (U2258400) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Just another thought Nanny, you don't mention what your relationship with your stepfather was. If it was good and you have good memories of him I would try if you can to separate the two events in your mind. Go to his ash scattering for his sake, not your dads. Deal with your mum, your brother and the scattering of your dad's ashes later, if your mum has only recently lost her second husband she will be feeling raw and it might not be the time to talk about your dad, sorry if this sounds as though I am saying your feelings about your dad are secondary to your stepdad's death, I don't think they are, but I'm not sure it's the right time to bring them up and talk about them.
If your relationship with your stepdad was poor then personally I would keep well away from the scattering -I think in your situation I would be bound to resentfully burst out with something unplanned and make a difficult situation worse.
I do hope as QBC says that you find a way to resolve this for your peace of mind. -
Message 13
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
This thread has reminded me that I still have no idea whether my mother ever told my sister when our grandmother died, or whether my sister just declined to go to the funeral, as we'd seen so little of her over the years. I actually took my mother to the funeral (at her request), but we never really talked about it other than the practicalities of travel arrangements.
It was news to me age about 11 that children were allowed to go to funerals. Until that point, I'd been under the impression that you just couldn't go to a funeral till you were grown-up - not that I had had many (if any) occasions to question this till that point.
However, by your 20s, whatever views may have been in place about children, aren't relevant any more.
Do you know where your father's ashes were scattered? Would it help you to go there? If you don't know, maybe you could raise the question, something like, "You know, I never got the chance to do this for Dad, I think I'd like to just go there one time." No mention of why you were never told, just a passing thought. It is natural at a time of bereavement to think of past bereavements as well.
How you deal with all this, much will depend on your relationships with your brother and mother. You're right, it might stir up all sorts. I'm in counselling at the moment for that very reason, and I too would recommend it, through Cruse or whoever (I've moved on to things other than bereavement in the main, but it's all connected.)
Only you can decide whether you want to be part of scattering the ashes or not. I am currently dealing with a slightly different question over ashes-scattering, so I can say that it can be an important thing, emotionally. How did you feel about your step-father? I am of the opinion that where possible, I'd always go to funerals and other death-related rituals, it helps me say goodbye. They're a rite of passage for a reason - but not everyone needs that rite of passage, and not everyone needs the same rite of passage. You could maybe say goodbye to your stepfather in your own way at the same time. OTOH, it might help you to be with people, and you could be saying goodbye to your own father at the same time. I don't know - only you can know how you currently feel and how particular actions would be likely to make you feel.
Would it help to work through possible actions, like scattering the ashes, not getting involved at all, doing your own thing, asking about your father? Some of these can be done as well as others, they're not all either/or situations, but maybe looking at each one, considering the possible outcomes if you did it, and the possible outcomes if you didn't do it, and how you feel about those possible outcomes might give you a clearer idea about what you want to do.
For example, if something I've said here has made you think, that's rubbish, I wouldn't do that - well, that's already given you a bit more focus about options open to you. Sometimes focussing on questions like that can tell you quite a bit about how you feel - you might feel action A will be hard, but if you didn't do it at all, you might feel even worse. Whatever you do at this point is unlikely to be easy, but some courses may be easier to live with than others. -
Message 14
Posted by NannyGoatGruff (U14519382) on Tuesday, 29th June 2010
Bereavement does throw up all sorts of 'stuff', doesn't it?
My step-father was the nearest thing to a Grandfather my children had and he was generous and supportive to me. But he wasn't the sort of person who got very 'close', if you know what I mean.
The funeral was fine. My mother asked me to do a reading, I think in recognition of the relationship that I had formed with him. I was pleased to be asked. So, to be honest, I don't feel I need to be there at the ashes scattering for myself.
The main reason to go would be to support my mother, but I am not sure if I could go without my feelings getting in the way, which could ruin it for her. I don't want to go to 'make a point'. So, if things remain as they are, I think I had better make my excuses.
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