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unplanned pregnancy, older couple
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Message 1.Â
Posted by boris-tarpit (U14590816) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
i think i am going insane. i am 48 my girlfriend is a simililar age, bit younger. she is pregnant, 2 months. she doesn't have any children and was always horrified at the thought. i have 3 children, two who live with me half the time and one overseas. they are just of an age where they are fun but don't need constant supervision, i adore them. i don't want another child, i really don't want anther child. it has taken me a long time to reclaim my life from my previous relationship. my previous partner went out to work and i stayed home with the kids, i did full time parenting for 3 years. it put great strain on the relationship but we coped - it was what we had chosen. my current girlfriend is not the most stable of characters, she has had problems with mental health issues, alcoholism, bereavment, rejection. she has been happier with me than at any time in her life she has said so many times. her family are not close to her, she has few friends that weren't mine. we do not live together.
she will not discuss abortion, she had one some years ago and never came to terms with it - the previous partner abandoned her and she went thru it alone. she is planning to have this baby adopted. there is no way i could give my baby up for adoption if i got anyway close to it pre birth and i do not believe she would be able to give it up.
i want to take responsibility for my actions, i want to give her all the support i can, but how can i do that and not get close to the unborn child? how can i love her when i hate what she is doing? it will destroy her, and possibly me. she is lashing out and pushing me away. we are tearing each other apart already. she has tried more than once to bring on a miscarriage, she is drinking too much, if i say anything she doesn't want to hear she shuts me out - literally - i spent 2 hours knocking on her door last week trying to get her to talk to me, answer the phone, return a text, it was the first chance we had to discuss it and she blanked me as soon as i said 'i don't want another baby'. it's what we both agreed the whole time we've been together.
i have friends, good and supportive friends. no one i have spoken to can understand her or would be able to give up the child. she really doesn't know what she is doing, she is complaining now and this is the easy bit - the very easy bit. i am distraught, i can't eat can't sleep i'm finding it difficult to cope with my children. i don't know what to do. -
Message 2
Posted by Miftrefs Laura in Lothian bufily ftitching (U2587870) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
Sat, 21 Aug 2010 09:39 GMT, in reply to boris-tarpit in message 1
I think this situation calls for professional advice, boris... I think I would start with my GP, and also contact the local Family Planning Clinic, or Marie Stopes, or Brook Advisory (I'm a bit out of date these days, names of organisations may have changed).
There may be ways to have advice during pregnancy which will make adoption less traumatic, or (for all I know) some way of the baby being adopted or fostered whilst retaining some degree of contact.
If a pregnancy is terminated /with/ a good counselling programme, even though she has had terrible previous experiences, it can be possible to emerge the other side feeling (as well as knowing) that one did the least-bad thing, and sometimes even knowing one did the best thing.
It is a very very difficult situation, not made easier by the pressure of time. You need to get the available help as soon as possible, and I wish you well with the whole situation.
I think talking to professionals who have all the factual information up to date and who have training and experience in helping people reach a decision could really help.
Take care of yourself, as well as your girlfriend.
Laura -
Message 3
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
Hello, boris-tarpit - I'm sorry to read your very obvious distress and about your difficult situations. I think a lot of people do find that it helps straighten out their thoughts about situations which don't seem to have a solution by writing about them here (with all due care for the anonymity of everyone else concerned, of course) and I hope that you will get some help from other people's thoughts (although I think it's often really the getting your own thoughts in order by writing them down that really helps).
I'm glad that you have supportive friends to talk to about it as well.
I don't think I've anything helpful to say other than that I don't think you can ever make other people think in the way you want them to think and it is probably less stressful to come to terms with that as soon as possible. I also think eating and sleeping are essential - and if you are having problems with sleeping, talk to your GP.
Good luck.
Fee -
Message 4
Posted by ThisLizzie (U5294918) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
Hello boris,
I'm sorry too to hear the obvious distress in your OP and hope getting some of it out helps you feel a little better.
For what it's worth, my thoughts are these:
Are you absolutely sure she is pregnant? I know it does happen but she is of an age where it is unlikely. Might she be mistaking menopausal symptoms for pregnancy? That said, have you researched the possibilities of having a healthy baby at her age? I'm not suggesting this be used as an excuse to pressurize her into a termination but you both need to know the facts before you can possibly make an informed decision.
Please remember that we're all here for you.
Lizzie -
Message 5
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:03 GMT, in reply to boris-tarpit in message 1
Hello, boris-tarpit -
I'm going to play devils advocate a bit here, and ask you some of the questions that your girlfriends friends, if she had any, might ask.
You're having a sexual relationship with a middle-aged, childless woman, in your words "not the most stable of characters, she has had problems with mental health issues, alcoholism, bereavment, rejection, she has been happier with me than at any time in her life she has said so many times. her family are not close to her, she has few friends that weren't mine. we do not live together" and you are surprised and distraught when she becomes pregnant?
Did it not occur to you, even if you rejected the thoughts as paranoia, that for her to get pregnant by you might, she might think, solve the majority of what she perceives as her problems? If you left any of the responsibility for contraception to her, it seems possible that she's got pregnant sort of "accidentally on purpose".
Could be that she's clinging to a deluded dream that at some point over the next 7 months, you'll come round, having done a complete about-face and ready to apologise and sort of carry her over your threshold?
It must be so difficult to be supportive yet not give her anything she could misinterpret as falsely positive.
My sympathies to you; it must be so hard to see her drinking too much and trying to bring on a miscarriage.
Is she registered with a GP you could express your concerns to, or does she have a social worker? They probably wouldn't be able to talk to you about her, but they could listen to you.
Best wishes. -
Message 6
Posted by Auntie Clockwise (U8040384) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
I'll only comment on the adoption issue, as I worked in that field before retirement. If your girlfriend is considering adoption, she will be able to get counseling from an adoption agency as early as she likes (she could make contact on Monday and arrange an appointment to see a social worker). All local authority Social Services Departments (or Social Work Departments in Scotland) are adoption agencies and there are many voluntary organisations that provide this service as well. If it turns out that she is really sure that this is what she wants, the baby can either be placed with foster carers straight from hospital or even, in some cases, matched with an adoptive family and placed directly (this would be on a fostering basis until the legal process of adoption was completed). Adoption agencies will provide a letter box service where some contact (through the agency) can be maintained. If the child is placed from birth it's not that likely, in my experience, for regular face to face contact to be maintained. Some agencies will arrange for the birth parents to have a one off meeting with the adopters, who will then be able to talk to the child about his/her parents with the experience of having met them. They will be encouraged to give the child as much information about the birth family as is available, although if there are difficult and/or painful circumstances these won't be revealed while the child is very young. At the age of 18 (16 in Scotland) the adopted person aquires the right to seek a copy of the original birth certificate and has the right, with counseling, to trace birth family. Some adopted people only want information (some don't even want that), while some want, if possible, to trace and meet birth relatives. This used to only happen through recognised agencies acting as intermediaries, but now with the internet it's harder to regulate and many people on both sides (adopted people and members of a birth family who've had a child adopted) manage this process themselves.
I don't know if this is at all helpful - I know it doesn't answer your central dilemma. Just thought you might want to know a bit about the adoption bit of your query. -
Message 7
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:23 GMT, in reply to Auntie Clockwise-with a screw loose in message 6
I see it as your concern for a situation your girlfriend is in. You are fond of her and want to give her your support, but don't want to be landed again, at your time of life with another baby. Since she doesn't want an abortion but does want adoption, (or miscarriage), it doesn't look as though you are likely to be landed. As someone else said, she may not actually be pregnant, just menopausal, so your personal situation doesn't seem all that threatened. You could talk to an adoption agency yourself for discussions as to your own situation.
I think you are just upset now, but you are fond enough of her to want her not to damage herself. You have to be calm for her sake, give her your emotional support, and let things ride for a bit. Everything seems very emotionally charged at the moment, so just send flowers or something, and back off and let her come down from where she is. Once she is calm, maybe you can discuss it but don't start it yourself. Let her talk, just listen, and encourage her to talk it all through. I'm sure you will both find an agreement in the next few months.
I hope this helps. -
Message 8
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Saturday, 21st August 2010
I would say that if you were that determined you were not going to have another baby, then you should have had a vasectomy or not had sex - particularly given what you say about her stability. However, that is by the bye, because clearly that didn't happen (worth considering for the future, though.)
I'd also echo the question about how sure are you that it's pregnancy and not menopause? But I'll assume you've done all that.
You say she won't consider an abortion, and you wouldn't consider an adoption. So that means there is going to be a baby, like it or not. If she won't won't consider an abortion, then why is she drinking too much and trying to bring on an abortion? Whether you like it or not, it takes two to get into a situation like this, and even if you didn't plan it, you're stuck with it. Things /aren't/ going to happen the way you want, so you might as well get your head round things and deal with them as they are, not as you would like them to be.
If she is determined not to abort, then you need to stop her drinking and doing stupid things, and you need to support her. If you won't consider adoption, then you have to accept that there will be a baby to care for, and work out the best way that the two of you will support it. And if she won't talk to you at all, then one way or another, you've got to make her, perhaps with the help of a third party? Family? Friends? GP? Sometimes someone who isn't already involved in some way can be easy to talk with - maybe Marie Stopes, who are geared up to advising people on the options on unplanned pregnancies? If your girlfriend won't talk to them or you, you could perhaps ask if they have experience of dealing with this sort of situation.
I don't know how you're going to resolve this, but whatever happens, life will never be the same again. Even if there turns out not to be a baby, you will have both been through this situation, and it will have changed things forever. If you get through it together, it may make you stronger as a couple, but it's going to take work, because it's the sort of thing that will blow a relationship apart very easily.
And if you're that sure you don't want a baby in the future, then take some responsibility to make sure it won't happen. -
Message 9
Posted by boris-tarpit (U14590816) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
carrick bend you make a very good devil! thank you for your input laura, fee, lizzie, auntie, rwth, bearhug please don't judge me too harshly, i am doing my best to come to terms with my situation and i'm not trying to say it's anyone elses fault.
i was responsible for the contraception, we had an 'incident' looked at the calender and decided that is was probably ok, bad decision but that's easy to say now.
as for your 'deluded dream' point you may be right. irony is i was going to ask her to move in, her job ends soon and it would have made sense my kids love her and she gets on well with them. i was actually planning a future with her.
a lot of her problems go back to her previous abortion, the drinking started then.
most of my problem is that this decision has been imposed on me. i wasn't part of it, the only time we discussed it she stormed off. we have spoken since but she is still saying she doesn't know what she wants but abortion isn't an option.
as i see it my choices are:-
run away and leave her to do what she will (my inherent decency as a human being and desire to take responsibility make this not an option)
support her thru the pregnancy with a veiw to having the baby adopted (i can't imagine giving away my child, 2 million years of evolution takes a lot of arguing with, i'll know when the time comes)
there is such a thing as nominated adoption where the baby is given to someone with whom we stay in contact with and we get limited contact, this could have it's own set of problems.
have the baby and move in together (we would fight we can fight over nothing as it is, mostly she's just testing me and i know she is and can deal with it but i can't play mind games with her and see to a baby as well)
bring up the baby myself with what ever input she can give me (not what i want but i've done plenty of parenting i have lots of help and support. it would be hard and a logistical nightmare my kids live and go to school way across town.)
as my late father would say "it teks a woman to mek man or mouse" at least he doesn't have to know about this. -
Message 10
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
I don't how widely you lurk across these boards boris - if you ever look at the Alcohol Concerns thread you will know that I have reason to pick up on any issue of having a problematic drinker in your life. I think my view is that there is relatively little that you can do for a problem drinker who does not have a real wish to get their own life in order - but I do think that it behoves us collectively to try to protect children (born or unborn) from suffering from alcoholism in their lives and from being brought up in emotional circumstances which increase the likelihood of their repeating the pattern.
I don't what you should do in order to achieve this - and I never feel inclined to give any sort of positive advice as people and situations are all so different - you need to work it out for yourself with whatever help you can find.
<(i can't imagine giving away my child, 2 million years of evolution takes a lot of arguing with, i'll know when the time comes)>
This does strike me as a rather proprietorial view of the child, rather than one which looks at it from the perspective of what is best for the child, and I do wonder if perhaps you should take up the suggestion that you might want to find out more about adoption.
Good luck - and I think, by the way, that there is little point in being judgmental - things happen and what matters is how we go forward from them not agonising about having got into the situation in the first place.
Fee -
Message 11
Posted by SmoctusMole (U13882662) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
Forgive me if I am causing any offence here, Boris, as none is intended but could you please clarify a point for me:
Are you saying that while you cannot contemplate adoption at this stage because "2 million years
of evolution takes a lot of arguing with" you could contemplate termination? Because if this is the case I think you've got yourself into a bit of a muddle. Why is the former which will give a life and future to your child such an impossible option?
Please believe this is /not/ a Pro-Life or similar query, simply puzzlement. -
Message 12
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
I do think the best thing will be to talk to trained counsellors about this, who are not emotionally involved. I think you need to consider /all/ the options, individually and together.
i can't imagine giving away my child, 2 million years of evolution takes a lot of arguing with, i'll know when the time comesÂ
You need to have made the decision before the time comes. I don't think it's anything to do with evolution - plenty of men have refused to have anything to do with their children, or have only taken intermittent interest over the years. And actually, if you're prepared to consider abortion, then I don't know why you wouldn't consider adoption.
If she is going to have an abortion (and speaking as a childless 38 year old, I can understand why she doesn't want to - were I to get pregnant now, it just wouldn't be an option,) she needs to make the decision before it's too late. On the assumption she isn't going to have an abortion, you need to decide now whether to keep the baby or put it up for adoption, not wait till it's here. And it is /you/ who has to make the decision in the end, not a load of strangers on a messageboard. That doesn't mean it's wrong to ask for advice and options, and it can be helpful to talk things through with people who aren't emotionally involved.
She needs to deal with the alcohol, but you can't make her do that, she'll only be able to deal with it when she's ready. If she's going to keep the baby, she really does need to deal with it. Growing up with an alcoholic parent screws your life up.
It may also be worth considering relationship counselling - you don't have to be married to use Relate (formerly the Marriage Guidance Council) - they are there for all sorts of relationships.
So in summary, those are the things you need to consider:
1) The baby;
2) The alcohol;
3) The relationship.
They're all intertwined, but just fixing one bit isn't going to resolve problems with the other bits, though it will help some of the other bits. -
Message 13
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:06 GMT, in reply to Bearhug in message 12
I have always thought that agonising over decisions is worse than the consequences of those decisions. You both think about the best for each of the three people involved in this situation. List the pros and cons relating to each person's consequences but whatever you both decide is final. Don't rush the decision. Don't say "I've decided because...." Say "If we decide to ...... it could result in ............" But remember that there may be an alternative scenario.
Another way is for both of you to be totally honest with each other and say what the ideal situation would be for each of you. You might be surprised at how close your hopes are. Then you only have to negotiate about the difference. Let her say first what she wants, then you say, or write it down and pass it to each other in sealed envelopes. Whatever suits the emotional situation. It's best to do it when you are both completely calm. Make it clear that you really want a happy situation for both of you. If you still love her, say so, even if it doesn't solve anything. -
Message 14
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Sunday, 22nd August 2010
I have always thought that agonising over decisions is worse than the consequences of those decisions. Â
Yes, that's often true. Once a decision's been mae, you have to live with that decision, and you remove the "what ifs" of the other possibilities. -
Message 15
Posted by boris-tarpit (U14590816) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
i went to see her yesterday and we had a long talk. i have managed to convince her that i'm not going to leave her nor am i going to make her do anything she doesn't want to do. she told me a bit more of the story of her previous pregnancy and it has shocked me.
smoctus, to answer your question, at the moment we haven't got a baby we've got a pregnancy. i know if i care for and support my girlfriend thru the pregnancy i will bond with the baby and it will be impossible to give it up - it will be my baby. i doubt that she will be able to. i have the fear that the stress of us raising a child neither of us planned or wanted will split us up and there will still be the child to consider. her depression makes a reappearance from time to time as it is, god knows what the mad hormones of the coming months are going to bring. this is why i think termination is maybe the least horrendous option.
on more possitive note i have spoken to a therapist and am arranging appointments for her and us both.
i feel much better for having got her to speak to me properly, she's promised to stay off the wine and actually i think she will.
we did some relationship repair yesterday and are coming to terms with things. as someone said upthread, once a decision is taken it doesn't seem so bad and i have at least made the decision to see thru what i've started. -
Message 16
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:09 GMT, in reply to boris-tarpit in message 15
I'm glad there's a bit of a plan, and that you're communicating.
Best wishes. -
Message 17
Posted by Nomadnomore - XNo - Quiz Queen (U3180380) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
I'm so glad you are communicating. I wanted to respond the other day but I wasn't sure what to say.
I found myself unexpectedly pregnant at the age of 46. My partner at the time was very clear that he did not want another child. My head did not want one but every other cell in my body did (sneaky darn pregnancy hormones). I went to see the GP who said the most likely outcome was a miscarriage but would arrange a scan and if the pregnancy were to continue it would be closely monitored as a high risk pregnancy. Thankfully the decision was taken away from me and I did have a miscarriage at 9 weeks.
My partner was very supportive, made his position clear but left the decision up to me. Thankfully the decision was taken away from me and I did have a miscarriage at 9 weeks. We've now been married for six years.
I know you and your girlfriend have lots of other issues as well but I think I'm trying to say don't underestimate the power of female pregnancy hormones.
I'm very glad you are going to get some professional help. -
Message 18
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
That's sounding more positive, boris - I hope you both work things out okay.
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Message 19
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 20
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 21
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Tuesday, 24th August 2010
You a man Carrick? Well i be blowed....
I can't remember the initials sometimes used for occassions like this (where a poster is not worth the one brain cell they have just fusd), but the above poster (and yes i mean the one above the modded one) is not really worth worrying about eh. An expression that rhymes with luck and ends in wit comes to mind.
This thread has been a fascinating one imo, where open and honest advice and reflection has taken place.
That's all really.
kris -
Message 22
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Wed, 25 Aug 2010 03:06 GMT, in reply to kris in message 21
Kris, did I use the wrong pronoun or something? -
Message 23
Posted by gigglemahanaz2 (U14257954) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Boris love, just been reading through this thread and one comment stood out *termanation is the least stressful*.......for some women this may case but not for a lot of women.
At the end of the day it's happened now so it's a case of trying to make the best of a bad deal really, you both have to do what's best for the child, as others have already stated the options open to you I have no need to go over them again.
At least now you've managed to speak to her and found out *why* she's so anti termanation which is a starting point if nothing else.
All I will say is I don't envy you this one as it'll be a tough desicion to make whatever you decided to do, all I can do is wish you luck and hope it all works out for you. -
Message 24
Posted by SmoctusMole (U13882662) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Boris, I'm so glad you are communicating - and also that I don't seem to have offended you with my query.
As long as you both can talk all will be well, never fear. And well done your girlfriend for cutting back on the wine.
Keep talking to us if it helps. -
Message 25
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
OOps, sorry C-B,
There was a truly infantile yet ghastly now modded post. A diatribe which included reference to you as a man among many other nasty comments aimed at all who posted.
Crazy people around for sure.
Boris, so glad there is now dialogue between you and your g/f . Such a tricky time for both of you, balancing responsibility with the possibility of life changing trajectory.
I wish you both well, whatever the choices you make.
kris -
Message 26
Posted by BlueLagoon (U14269215) on Wednesday, 25th August 2010
Is there a chance she may be reacting this way as she fears losing you and knows your views on your not wishing for more children? Or does she really not want children? Sorry if I've misunderstood anything. How would she feel if you turned it on its head and said you'd be prepared to bring up the child with her? There's probably no fairy tale ending but many options to consider.
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Message 27
Posted by boris-tarpit (U14590816) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
bluelagoon, if she told me she was going to keep the baby no matter what i thought about it i would give her all the help and support i could. i wouldn't expect her to be a natural mother but she is full of surprises. i asked her if she could imagine playing happy families with me and she said she couldn't - she had never had that.
every time i ask her what she actually *wants*, she says she doesn't know. she has an appointment with a councellor tomorrow to help her decide what she is going to do and i have told her i will support any decision she makes, it's her body after all. she is not enjoying being pregnant, complaining she can't get into her nice clothes and can't even have a drink. i refrain from telling her that it hasn't even started yet. i may be giving the impression of a rather self centred and immature woman and i guess she is but in a weird way that's what i like about her. a relationship based around her ego and my reaction to it isn't really one to bring a baby into.
i'm glad i missed whatever was in the modded posts, i have enough to contend with as it is, i am dreading telling my family, they are unlikely to say anything helpful. the usual response is to state and re-state the problem over and over adding a little bit more angst every time. thank god for friends real and virtual. -
Message 28
Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Thursday, 26th August 2010
Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:26 GMT, in reply to boris-tarpit in message 27
Boris, I've probably given you more than enough advice, but if you remember about trying to stay calm, and just taking one day at a time, she may make up her mind. This is either a new person on the way, who needs a stable father, or it's a phantom pregnancy so maybe just being supportive each day and staying clear in your mind about what you want and not being herded into anything is the best way to cope for now.
I'm sure she has plenty of clothes that look perfectly nice, or maybe she could make some more to keep herself busy. The thoughts one has when fully occupied with something creative are different from self-absorbed worry. And it is quiet. Maybe a bit of knitting would be easier for her. She could go shopping for clothes, but buying them all would be less satisfying than having to work at making them look good and totally different from the rubbish in the shops, which are always in the wrong colours and fabrics for what one really wants. Establishing her taste in clothes may help her make up her mind about the more important things.
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