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Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Just received an email from my niece which has left me feeling troubled. Thoughts particularly from those with children (I don't have them) on whether I am just hideously behind the times would be welcome.
My niece, 26, still in some ways like a stroppy teenager and heavily subsidised by her mum, invited herself to stay for a week earlier this summer. The first few days were fine but her latent stroppy side came out for the second half of the week and I was pleased to see her go. While here she greatly admired a rather stylish and cleverly-designed travel bag of mine.
It was her birthday last week, so I arranged for one to be sent via mail order. It cost £90. I have just received a very polite email from her to say thank you, very kind of me, but she's not sure she'd get much use out of it and doesn't really have the place to store anything (I've seen her flat and she *does*) and that what she really needs is for some kind aunt to agree to pay the £30 a month for her iphone account. She generously suggests that this could cover her Christmas gift too. She has asked me to arrange to have the bag returned.
I am not sure what to make of it all. It breaks all the rules of receiving gifts gratefully and graciously that I was brought up with - but I can find a degree of appreciation of her honesty: this is what I need, will you give it to me?
£360 is a lot of money to commit to and sets rather a worrying precedent, because I try to be even-handed with her and her brother. I have wondered about an iphone myself, but ruled it out on grounds of cost: it's something I can live without.
It is all further muddied by the fact that she dropped out of school at 16, dabbled half-heartedly in a few FE courses that she dropped out of after a few weeks, talks loftily of training to be a nurse and then does...nothing. She works for a few months here and there as a receptionist, at call centres, as a waitress etc but tends to get bored and stroppy and is either fired or walks out. She gets by thanks to the help of my sister and brother-in-law, who pay most of the rent on her flat and (I suspect) hand out cash fairly regularly. I am torn: in some ways I would rather give £30 a month to charity to help those in real need than pay for her phone habit. But perhaps I'm being bitter and twisted and envious of her straightforward approach...Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 2
Posted by Marigold (U14298439) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I would reply saying that I couldn’t afford the £360 commitment but would understand if she needed the money and sold the travel bag on Ebay.
Don’t be blackmailed into paying her living expenses!Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 3
Posted by MollyJ (U13928002) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
What an ungrateful hussey! As a compromise,and so as to avoid a family feud, why don't you return the bag, collect the money, and tell her that you are willing to fund her iphone account for 3 months (i.e. 3 months at £30 equals the cost of the bag) so everyone's quits.
Perhaps if other people weren't so open-handed she might buckle down to earning her own money.
Oooh! I did feel cross reading your post!Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 4
Posted by Small boy in third row (U2247664) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:01 GMT, in reply to Morganish in message 1
Morganish, I think she's been rude (and that your present was very generous in the first place). If she wants an iPhone she should pay for it herself. Perhaps if she were forced to stand on her on two feet rather than live off her parents' handouts then she'd make more on an effort to train for nursing/stick to a job/whatever. Don't let her draw you into subsidising her idleness.
Her frankness has put you in an awkward position. Be just as frank back. Tell her that £30 a month is more than you can afford, especially as you would have to do the same for her brother. Say you're disappointed she doesn't like the bag but that if she wants to arrange to return it and get a refund then here are the details to do so.
I have children and teach them to receive gifts "gratefully and graciously", as you put it, I hope I'm not been horribly old-fashioned to bring them up like that.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 5
Posted by Anne-Marie (U1474870) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I am flabbergasted, Morganish!
I think you have already been incredibly generous in giving your niece a present to the value of £90. I have never spent that much on my nieces and nephews, and even on my own children that is the top end, unless it is a 'big' birthday.
Your niece is being incredibly brazen in requesting that you fund an iPhone for her. My children would never expect that from us, and certainly wouldn't ask uncles/aunts to do so.
Your niece is 26; she ought to be relatively independent and self sufficient by now. She should also be 'weaned' off expecting such generous gifts.
In the current situation, you mention the bag being arranged to be returned. You could either give niece the equivalent cash value (minus return fees); give the money to a charity (possibly of her choosing); or not give anything else.
Buying gifts can be fraught - I usually ask what peoe want or send a cheque.
Good luck.
AMxLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 6
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Thanks: that's given me permission to feel furious too! I am approaching 50 and can see from all my friends with children that the rules are massively changed since I was 26. I am sometimes dumbfounded by the way kids get everything they ask for.
My niece was a lovely child and we had a close relationship, but as soon as adolescence struck I became a boring old f**t. I'd hoped that as she grew up things would change. I suppose they have. I'm still old and boring, but she now recognises that I could have my uses...
I think I'm going to talk about it with my sister. I tsuspect she has major reservations about the way things have turned out with my niece. This is not how she was brought up to behave.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 7
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Gosh. What ingratitude. I mean.. OK.. I can understand if she admired your bag because it was pretty but she might not actually need one for herself.
What I think is unreasonable is to suggest a present that will mean 360 pounds a year for years to come.
What I would do it get the bag back. See if you can get a refund. If not, use it yourself as a spare for when your travel bag breaks or give it to someone who would appreciate it (maybe for Christmas) and then give her the cash instead and wash your hands of giving presents to her.
Hell.. I never get any presents like that from my aunt or godmother and they're very comfortably well off. The last present I got from my godmother and which was a big break from the routine of nothing but a card was a pair of socks. And even then they were blue - I don't like blue. But did I say "Ugh, why can't you get me something more expensive"? No, I said "Socks are always useful. You can always do with another pair."
I'd not bother with presents for her any more.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 8
Posted by Kind Mrs Van Rentl (U2315000) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Get the bag back, get a refund. Stop there.
KmVR (gobsmacked at the neice's behaviour)Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 9
Posted by sweetFeet (U14377598) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I'd like to reply with something sensible Morganish, but I'm laughing too much.
Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 10
Posted by Moonflower (U2267264) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
My kids are a bit younger, and I agree that she has been very rude. I would be inclined to agree to return the bag - not sure whether she returns it or you do, whichever is easier for you I think.
I would then, if I were feeling generous, offer her the £90-postage or whatever, as a contribution to her iphone costs.
I would NOT agree to fund her iphone for a period of time, and I think you need to be a bit careful here. The account may well need to be linked to a credit card and she may, if she has financial troubles, be having difficulty with her credit rating. "funding the iphone account" could be a very open ended committment if she went over her monthly allowance of minutes/texts/data.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 11
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Oh, Sweeters, are you laughing at me? Was a travel bag in funky patterned fabric, with a retractable handle and wheels a very stupid thing to buy a 26-year-old?
Tell me the rules, someone, *please*...Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 12
Posted by sweetFeet (U14377598) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Don't be daft Morganish, I think you've been immensely generous.
No, it's the nerve of your niece . I nearly fell off my chair.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 13
Posted by sweetFeet (U14377598) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
The rules are one of life's great mysteries.
One thing is for sure. Never buy anything that could be considered a fashion item for anyone over the age of twelve. Possibly younger these days.
When a young person admires anything of yours, they're really saying "hmmm, lovely, suites you wrinkly, personally I wouldn't touch it with the end of a greasy chip".
Other than that I give up.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 14
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Sweeters: I know. So did I. And then I read it again, and I thought of the people up the road who've bought their 17-year-old a brand new Fiat car (the uber-trendy little white one) and the people in the village who've paid for their unemployed son (in his 20s) to go to Ibiza for a month because 'he deserves a holiday' and I just descended into a vortex of relativism and confusion.
If you don't have children and you're modestly comfortably well-off, and if the burden of being a good aunt sits on you like a ton of bricks, where do you draw the line?Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 15
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Message 13:
Ah. Oh dear. It was a hot bag, sold in surf shops, aimed at Young People... But of course, as it was mine it was beyond the pale. I get it. Thanks.
Now I feel very, very old and rather weepy.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 16
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Morganish, I think that if I was in your postition (which I wouldn't be, can't imagine spending €90 * on a present for anyone) I would tell the young woman to take a running jump.
If I was feeling polite.
the brass neck . . .
by all means let her return the gift, but let her go whistle for her phone bill - or go get herself a job.
* and I've just realised that of course the sums you are quoting are ££ not €€ - asking an aunt for £360 - strewthLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 17
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
OMG!
If that had been my child I would be tearing my hair out and wondering where I had gone wrong! What an ungrateful little so and so! I am sure I am not the only person who at 26 was running a house and juggling work with looking after a baby!
Get the bag back and if you feel up to it say that you can't afford £30 a month but if she needs help with her phone offer to buy a £20 pay as you go phone and send her £10 credit a month!
If she really needs a someone to fund a phone for her because she can't afford to this will be acceptable. An iphone is a particularly expensive phone. I would like one - but i make do with the £20 pay as you go etc because htat is what I can afford! Good grief! I am astounded at her cheek!
marmsLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 18
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:51 GMT, in reply to Morganish in message 11
I'm nearly 20 years older than you're niece, Morganish, but I'd be overwhelmed by the taste and generosity of anyone who gave me a bag like that, especially if I'd seen one and admired it.
I'd go with Rachel - say you're disappointed but if she wants to sell it on E-Bay and keep the proceeds, fine, and that you can't commit yourself to such a large sum (for what is a luxury).
If she was working as hard as she could, had saved and saved and still couldn't afford something she really *needed* , I'm sure you would help her out, but it's not like that and I don't see why you should go to any additional effort to satisfy that appears, at the moment, to be an ungrateful and greedy young woman.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 19
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Don't feel old. Feel angry.
Close a door and then enjoy kicking it. Go for a swim and pound the water. Make a cake by hand using hard butter.
I do all these things to let off aggression.*
And then resolve not to waste money on someone so tactless.
*and I sometimes screech but that's not so good if you're living in a flat.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 20
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Morganish, yes rules have changed but not to that extent. To state she wants to exchange the gift is just about acceptable, perhaps with a note to say she loves it but it isn't practical for her lifestyle. But then to ask so blatantly for an open ended handout seems more like the opportunist behaviour of a teenage lad, written knowing his relative may cough up the 21C version of a fiver if he is lucky.
If you are on good terms with your sister, in your shoes I would tell her what happened, say you cannot afford the money month on month [and why should you give that amount to a 26 year old to pay for a luxury item] and try and find out why your niece is still freeloading off them?.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 21
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
if the burden of being a good aunt sits on you like a ton of bricksÌý
here is your chance to be a Really Good Aunt
'Dear Mildred, so sorry you didn't like the bag. I am now going to give you something worth far more than money. Advice. You are ill mannered and are behaving in a way that would be hard to excuse in someone ten years younger than yourself. You are quite old enough to be self supporting. From now on my gifts to you will be similar in cash value to your gifts to me - so perhaps we should both agree to limit ourselves to £10. Tons of love, Auntie Morganish'Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 22
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Snork! It's tempting. I think I *will* have a serious word with my sister, because I think she'll be horrified. I suspect that this is not how she intended things to work out with my niece (like me, my sister was living independently and supporting herself from her teens). Perhaps, looking back on how hard it was for us, she's tried to make sure her daughter doesn't have to go through the character-forming everyday traumas we experienced. But the result is a spoiled 26-year-old brat.
I'm sad. She was a lovely girl and I had great hopes we could have good times together. Despite being a boring old f**t I have a lot to offer.
Now I am worrying about my will. Should I cut her out?Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 23
Posted by Marigold (U14298439) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Brilliant, dean, absolutely brilliant!Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 24
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
In all seriousness, she sounds like someone whose life might be changed very much for the worst by any sudden acquisition of a large sum of money - so a token in the will (and something personal - jewellery or art) and the rest to charity.
I do think that some straight talk from you, prefaced with an explanation that you are doing this because you love her and think she is damaging herself, might be in order. By 26 she really should be establishing a decent CV with a coherent career trajectory clearly visible. She should also be doing some sort of community or voluntary activity. Times are going to get harder and more competitive, and any youngster expecting life to support them is going to get a shock. A woman of 26 who still thinks this way - words fail.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 25
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I'm not shocked by her lack of direction - I was like that myself until I hit about 30 - but I am appalled by her lack of good manners.
I have nieces and nephews roughly in that age group and I have never ever received that sort of response - not from one of them, even the one I consider to be a little materialistic in outlook! Nothing but thanks, sometimes by text or email, but usually with kind words about how the gift was so appropriate, etc. etc.
Honestly Morganish, I don't think this is typical. As for your Will, I wouldn't cut her out, that is a bit strong, and there is time for her to change her ways (we sincerely hope!) but a limited bequest may be in order.
LynnieP xLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 26
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I know, Dean. For the last few years I have become increasingly concerned about her failure to buckle down and take work/studies seriously. She's a very bright bunny.
I suppose a bit of me (I buckled down at the age of about 14 and have remained buckled down ever since) is slightly envious of her free and easy life. She's been to the States, she's been to Australia, she's jacked work in for the summer and gone to Greece and Spain - things I've never felt able to do because I had a mortgage and a pension fund from the age of 25. She lives in the moment and I'm not completely knocking that.
But at 26 it's all beginning to look a bit naff. And if I went under a bus tomorrow she would possibly receive a six-figure sum. I'm not a millionaire, but I own a house and I have some savings (for my retirement) and a life insurance policy. She'd love it, of course, but I'm not sure it would be good for her.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 27
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
You could maybe add a codicil.
I have made a provision for my god-daughter to receive a certain sum of money. It's a tidy sum. But when I heard her mum say years and years ago, that any money given to L. was going to pay off the mortgage now and the mother would pay her back later (they were keeping records), I stipulated that it would be held in trust until she was 18. I later made a codicil saying that it should be until she was 21 (I hoped that she'd be independent and sensible enough by that age).Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 28
Posted by sweetFeet (U14377598) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
There are ways of being direct that don't include rudeness, and yes she's been rude. Learning straight talk without harm to another is a skill.
Abusing people's good will is a pretty daft thing to do. If she's done it to you, you can bet your sweet bippy she's done it to others.
Free spirits tread lightly on the Earth in my experienceLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 29
Posted by dean volecape (U1477030) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
The expensive tastes are not a bad thing - a little self indulgent, but most of us have a tendency that way, however hard we battle it.
The free spirit drifting, living in the moment thing isn't bad - in many ways it is admirable, and the world might be better for a bit more of it, as long as it isn't completely selfish.
BUT
a drifting free spirit with expensive tastes who is happy to freeload on others - that IS a bad combination.
anyhow, I must write and thank my auntie, who has just sent me a lovely present - an aged linen pillowcase and bolster cover. The reason I'm so pleased is that they belonged to a grand uncle, and were almost certainly a gift to him when he became an archdeacon ca 1930. They are beautifully embroidered with his monogram, and edged with hand made lace. No cash value, but it's lovely to have something from that bit of the family.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 30
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:42 GMT, in reply to Morganish in message 26
She lives in the moment and I'm not completely knocking that.Ìý
Asking someone to fork out £30 a month for a luxury phone sounds like living *by* presents rather than *in* the present, to me.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 31
Posted by MrsGks (U14084771) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Thoughts particularly from those with children (I don't have them) on whether I am just hideously behind the times would be welcome.
Ìý
I saw this soon after you posted but was too outraged to write anything sensible. Still not sure I can...
You've had lots of suggestions as to what to do with the present so I thought I would just answer the first part of your OP and in short, if you are behind the times, so am I!
I do have children in their 20s and would be gobsmacked if they treated any present, no matter from whom it came, the way your niece treated yours. I would also wonder where I had gone wrong. Because of their age, they don't get many prezents now. Normally from immediate family who ask what they would like. They always say thank you.
I'm also an aunt and I do get upset when my nieces and nephews don't thank me for their presents (they live abroad and I usually have to ask a parent if the presents/cards arrived).
Perhaps times are changing, but not for the better, methinks.
MrsGksLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 32
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Thanks for that, Sweeters. I like the phrase good will. It's what I feel towards her and what I have offered. And it *is* my good will that is feeling bruised.
Perhaps I can write to her on that basis. My gift wasn't what she wanted, but it was sent in a spirit of good will and it would be nice if she could understand that and not seek to exploit it. I will see if I can return the bag and if I can I will offer her the cash on the basis that it will pay for the iphone for three months. But perhaps I'll suggest that as we have different ideas about what is appropriate or constitutes a gift, we should have a limit of £10 or £20 for a while.
I need to think about my will. Gosh, this is getting into really serious territory.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 33
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:00 GMT, in reply to Morganish in message 32
That sounds a generous compromise, Morganish. (I know plenty of people who would have muttered "ungrateful bleep" and, if they could return the bag, given the £90 to a more deserving cause (like themselves, some of them)
I was wondering, does your sister, who it sounds as though you have a good relationship with, know the heartache her daughter has caused you? It might be less traumatic for you if she hears your reasons first, rather than getting your niece version, and it might help her to help her daughter not to repeat this mistake.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 34
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I too think she was very rude, and should be told so.
I certainly wouldn't be funding someone else's phone habit - if she can't afford it herself, she'll have to learn to budget and cut down on use. In any case, I would never expect more than a tenner from aunts and uncles, and usually, we got nothing at all, though I think this was following a discussion between all involved parents to cut costs on unnecessary things. Cards but no presents.
But also, everyone makes mistakes, and she should have a chance - if she behaves like this again, then fair enough, but I wouldn't be rewriting my will on the basis of one event (not least because I'd be hoping it wouldn't be used for some years to come in any case.) But I would bear it in mind for future, and see if her behaviour improves at all, and then act if I felt it still required it.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 35
Posted by Lynnie P (U3585914) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
That sounds a generous compromise, Morganish. (I know plenty of people who would have muttered "ungrateful bleep" and, if they could return the bag, given the £90 to a more deserving cause (like themselves, some of them) Ìý
I have to say C-B, that I might be in the latter camp. I would have been immeasurably hurt if one of my dear nieces or nephews behaved like this. I usually "hit the spot" with their presents - because I know them well, and because I sometimes ask for advice on the matter - but I have sometimes seen that a gift hasn't quite hit the mark. Never a word of complaint from any of 'em. It was how we were brought up and I am glad to see my SiL and sister have carried on the tradition.
Never too late to learn its "the thought that counts"!
LynnieP x (I am surprised how this has made me feel - my usual ability to see both sides of any situation seems to have deserted me in this case!)Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 36
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:13 GMT, in reply to carrick-bend
Carrick's just said what I was thinking. Could you talk to your sister first, Morganish?
Your niece's behaviour is rude and selfish, and you are not being unreasonable to be irritated *and* hurt. You put some thought into the gift, and yo be treated as your niece did is just ... well, words fail me, really. Although I'd probably end up getting a refund on the bag (which sounds nice!) and giving her the cash.
Not sure about altering your will, however, as I've seen what can happen if heirs are treated differently. But maybe you can find a way of protecting her inheritance from being frittered away, as Old Janx suggests?
But the ingratitude is galling. I have loads of semi-precious "dress" jewellry (proper gold and silver but not particularly valuable) given me each year by my grandmother. Some I wear, some are really not to my taste, but I would never, *ever* have greeted such loving gifts with anything other than delight -- and not feigned pleasure either. I still have all the pieces she gave me, and while I don't wear them r appreciate them aesthetically, they are gifts from her and that's what is important about them.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 37
Posted by akamolly (U2268592) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Unless your sister has a very very thick skin I think she would be soooo mortified. Just tell your niece to put it on ebay and put the proceeds towards an iphone. I can't afford one either.
As to your will, my FIL left money to my son when he was 20 and going through a reckless phase. It was all p****d up against a wall and completely funded a really bad lifestyle for quite a time. Now he is married and with a family it would be of real benefit to him. Put it in trust untill she is 35Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 38
Posted by Flakey (U14259784) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
So sorry Morganish
I am a forty something and consider myself v funky. I would love the bag. I also do not have children but think £90 sounds like a generous pressie for a niece. As for her suggesting you cough up for the Iphone - please, how rude. Clearly she has never needed to value money and as a taker why wouldn't she try and push her luck.
Leave the hustle of sorting the bag with her or email her ebays details.
You sound like great Aunt material to me.
I feel cross for you.
Best wishes
Flakes xx
Flakes xxxLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 39
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Ah, Red, this is the same girl who some years ago announced that she wanted to go to drama school - not that she had any experience or great talent, she just fancied it. You were kind enough to offer advice then. She had us all running around trying to work out how to fund it (up £30,000 a year!) and when it became clear that it could only be done if she worked evenings, weekends and holidays and shared a grotty flat, it was quickly forgotten. Same with the nursing. She had to do an access course, got a couple of months into it and then decided...nah.
My sister was very apologetic about all that. She's torn. Obviously she wants to encourage any career aspirations Niece has, but I think she too is exasperated. I think a controlled end to Niece's dependency is called for.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 40
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Aww, Flakey... I think it's becoming increasingly clear that we've all failed her by being too understanding.
Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 41
Posted by Flakey (U14259784) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
I don't know about that Morganish, I just think you sound very nice.
Flakes xLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 42
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Obviously she wants to encourage any career aspirations Niece has, but I think she too is exasperated. I think a controlled end to Niece's dependency is called for.
Ìý
Perhaps she could apply for, "Young, Dumb and Living off Mum" for the next series?
Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 43
Posted by Doodlysquat (U13738858) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:38 GMT, in reply to Morganish in message 39
Dear, sweet, generous Morganish.....I think this situation calls for a boot/bottom interface.
suzeLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 44
Posted by FluffsomeUnderbelly (U13451134) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Presents are always a minefield - I try and ask where possible as there is nothing more disheartening than knowing someone has spent time/money on something that will never be used. I think asking for something to be returned is ok, especially if it won't be used. My OH had his phone funded by parents at one point due to variable health but a year seems a bit much - maybe the returned sum towards it.
Punishing someone for a lack of direction seems harsh - I''m still looking for mine!Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 45
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:49 GMT, in reply to Morganish in message 39
Ah, Red, this is the same girl who some years ago announced that she wanted to go to drama school - not that she had any experience or great talent, she just fancied it. You were kind enough to offer advice then. She had us all running around trying to work out how to fund it (up £30,000 a year!) and when it became clear that it could only be done if she worked evenings, weekends and holidays and shared a grotty flat, it was quickly forgotten.Ìý
Ahhhhh, I vaguely remember that. So glad you didn't try to fund it, given she'd had no am-dram or other sort of preparatory experience. And in the theatre, you /really/ need to be prepared to work gob-smackingly hard and be rejected and fail.
Your sister must be at her wits' end and somewhat embarrassed by her daughter's dependency.
As others have suggested, this young woman needs a staged withdrawal from dependency. On a broader note, I'm often told that my taxes contribute to the next generation who will support me in my old age. Looks like this next generation is shaping up to be a fabulous "support." I see 20-something entitlement all around me. But I think I'm in a sour mood at the moment.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 46
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Bearhug, I saw one episode of that and she doesn't actually fit that role. She has been working since she was about 14 and is rarely out of work for more than a week or two - though it's all minimum wage stuff. She's numerate and literate, well-spoken and can apparently be charming: she did well for quite a while as a hotel receptionist and actually got mentioned on Trip Advisor for being helpful a few times. She could walk into bar or pub work any night of the week and is a trained barrista with one of the chains. She can cook (baked a good cake when she was staying here) and clean and do all the domestic stuff - and does it. She just seems to have no sticking power, maybe because she finds much of the basic-level work very easy. She can put on the interested act for a while, but it wears off. I have always thought she'd be good at running her own business though she might have trouble putting clients/customers first. There was a TV series called Hustle and sadly I could see Niece as the pretty female character. She can spot weakness.
Doodlysquat: I am a soft-hearted idiot - and thank you.
Red, I am sure my sister is getting desperate. She tends to brush it off and try to make the best of it, and I probably don't know the half of it, but I sense that she's getting to the stage where she's had enough. Probably a good thing for Niece in the long run.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 47
Posted by Flightless Anachronistic Bird (U6437464) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Coming in a bit late on this...
First, you are upset that she is behaving like a child, so it's inconsistent to then treat her like a child. She's 26, so write to her, not her Mum, if you're unhappy with how she's behaved. (Write to her Mum if you're worried about the way the Mum is behaving.)
I'm an only (childless) aunt of an only nephew, with a reasonably good salary, so am quite happy to do some major funding of things he needs/would like for birthday/Christmas, but the unspoken rules are something like the unspoken rules that were applied by parents/grandparents giving me presents: (1) The default is that the (big) present will be cash, and that the amount is more or less known in advance (ie similar to last time). However, if some particular large item is wanted, representation can be made by roundabout routes, opening the possibility of giver(s) offering a larger sum to be able to buy said item. If it's not something that you feel you can aford/want to fund then recipient just gets the usual cash and can put it towards item if they want to. Larger sum is entirely dependent on the actual purchase of item - ie can't be used for anything else (and the way it works, dosh would normally only be handed over when item has been purchased, or as item is purchased). (2) Such large presents can only be expected when recipient isn't in a position to earn the money themselves, ie in education or training, or the early phase of a job that will lead to something better. If the recipient is capable of earning the money themselves and chooses not to, that's their problem. My nephew has been through phases of dossing around (not much) or working, or being in education, and the value of presents varies accordingly.
In Morganish's position, I would get the bag back and get a refund. Then I would write to niece saying that I couldn't normally afford to spend that much on a present for her, but that I'd done it because I thought (from a comment she'd made) that it was something she would particularly like, and that I enclose a cheque for the amount I'd normally spend on a present for her, and that she can spend it any way that she wants.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 48
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Dear Aunty Morganish,
you are lovely and so very generous. Thank you so much for the fab bag. It will be so handy next time I come to stay.
I have realised that I may have inadvertently sent you an email containing an exercise for my creative writing class. I am blushing to the core at the thought that you might have thought it was addressed to you. Please delete it permanently.
Mum sends her love - I perhaps shouldn't mention that she is eyeing up the bag too.
Looking forward to seeing you soon,
Your ever-loving niece.
(Dunlurkin)Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 49
Posted by Celtic Tiger (U2229153) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
My son is a couple of year's older than this neice and I would be appalled if he behaved as rudely as this.
IMO you neice should have said thank you to you and then sold/exchanged the bag for a present which she did like. But to tell you she didn't want it and then to suggest an alternative present which is triple the cost and on-going is the height of cheek. In the circs I'd get the bag back from her, get a refund and send her £20.Link to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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Message 50
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Tuesday, 31st August 2010
Dear Aunty F(A)B,
You are fab too, and you speak so much sense.
DunlurkinLink to this forum: Otherwisish: gifts and the generation gap
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