Messageboard
The Village Hall听 permalink
otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.听
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Monday, 6th September 2010
I am a regular poster on her, but have re-registered, so as to have another identity on this thread.
I feel that I have painted myself into a corner. I am angry and upset, in a way that I thought I wouldn't be/ had got over, and I would appreciate some reasoned comments.
PArtly, I feel I might be being childish, but I am seriously hurt, and, well, I am no longer a teenager.
It all blew up this summer, and I don't quite know where to go from here.
My brother has been very difficult, to put it mildly, for many years. He has had delusions of grandeur and has blagged, borrowed etc money to the tune of of thousands from friends relatives and the banks - so much so that now that he is finally settled and has a proper job the bank wouldn't touch him with a barge pole (which of course is a huge problem)
My (younger) brother has been, in my opinion of course, very spoilt over the years.
I realise that sibling rivalry is common.
However, particularly in view of more recent events, I recall my grandmother saying something along the lines of (not in English): "one has to divide sun and rain equally amongst the children, and if one doesn't, then trouble will follow".
To be honest, I always thought, even before the crisis, that my mother in particular, preferred my younger brother. As a trying-to-be-rational human being, I would have to accept that these things happen. I was sort of resigned to this. And, hey, it's been many years, and, living in a different country to my parents (and to my brother) really thought I was "over" it.
There was a "classic" moment some years ago, when, at the celebration of my mother's 50th birthday party she stood up to give a speech (normal behaviour in our family) - and ALL I remember of the celebration was her words (she had had something of a rough time, partly due to my father's unhelpful remarks when she didn't want to move countries yet again when he wanted to) - she thanked my father (hypocrite!) and then added "and you, dear mickey" (name not the real one) - referring to my brother.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 2
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 6th September 2010
I'm so sorry you are upset and it seems moving overseas hasn't been a solution!
Funnily enough there was a quote given on the early bird thread which jumped out at me as I tried for years to mediate between my brothers and mother to no avail. You can clear up one problem and in a year or so another problem will rear its head. I had hoped that once my mother had died things would get easier, but still sections of my family are at loggerheads. My husband and I don't
attempt to resolve things now and just let them get on with it. We listen but never comment.
Albert Einstein apparently said Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Maybe you just need to lay this down and walk away.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 3
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Monday, 6th September 2010
She seemingly
(a) forgot that I was present OR
(b) forgot about my very existence
0r
(c) deliberately wanted to seriously hurt me
[I still believe (c) to be the /most/ unlikely option, she honestly isn't like that]
move on 10 years.
my darling brother (we have had our differences, and, yes, I am being sarcastic, but in this context I don't blame him, I think he was younger, male, and spoilt - bitter, moi? - but we have had a laugh over the years and I don't for one moment believe he has been scheming)
had in the meantime gone slightly round the bend. Having married a lovely woman, having decided he was gawd's gift to music, he gave up his burgeoning (other) career and became a royal pain in the arse. Delusions of grandeur, going to become the next beatles, rolling stones, etc etc, god#s gift, you get the idea....
So, 10 years later, it is my mother's 60th birthday 鈥 here we go.
At the time, due to - well time and whatever - but largely due to my brother's delusions of grandeur accompanied by bouts of violent and extremely unpleasant depression/aggression, my parents aren't getting on all that well (oh, and I had been in the extremely awkward position of being his [my brother's] unwilling confidante along his road to self-destruction and =somehwat out of character= womanizing, with threats as to what he would do if I told the family [do to himself, i.e. I would be forever blamed IF I mentioned anything]).
So, meantime his mental state of health had come out due to him calling me 17 times one night when I was not available (ironically watching Stephen Fry's documentary on bipolar, having left my phone at work...), and my brother ended up scaring his wife so much (by threatening to jump out the window, not by being violent towards her..that she freaked, reasonably enough (!) and called her father, who called my parents, so it all came out in the open.
So....
I was the bee's knees for a few years as my efforts in keeping my brother's sanity were acknowledged, even though it was all dark for a few years, and for my mother's 60th, I was really trying to organize something good for her (especially given that she had organized a grand event for my father's 60th some not so many years before, and he was not lifting a finger to do something for her 60th) My mother and I have the umpteenth conversation about what to do for her 60th (we have gone through about 7 scenarios/countries/list of people by then) when I say, for the 6th time, "well, look, it is YOUR birthday, what do YOU want?"
And her reply flies back at me - honest, straight up - "I JUST want to spend my birthday with my grandchildren".
Well, ok, fair enough.
However, the grandchildren in question are my brother's children. We don't have any. Don't want any. It has never been an issue. I only mention this to highlight the slap in the face it was.
So, that means OH and I, who do not have children needn't bother coming???Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 4
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Monday, 6th September 2010
Confused - I'm trying to understand what the issue is.
Your older brother seems reckless - unlike yourself, maybe? - yet appears to have been given what he wants by friends and family.
Your younger brother seems to receive most of the attention from your mother - and you would like more of her attention.
You sound upset because you recall a public occasion when your mother gave thanks to your father and one of your brothers and you appeared to be overlooked.
I believe many middle siblings experience this (I'm not one, so cannot validate it - I'm sure other posters will, though).
You mention a recent crisis but it isn't clear what this is.
What are you hoping that your posting will bring?
ccLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 5
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Monday, 6th September 2010
I have walked away from the issues and suggest you do too. Your efforts to help your brother were acknowledged, as were our efforts, but at the end of the day you will reach the end of your tether.
Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 6
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Monday, 6th September 2010
My brother (and his wife - who is lovely btw) are both uninterested in and not very good at planning ahead. Fine, but for big family does, it makes life complicated.
So, there I was, having spent 5 months trying to plan /something/, in fact, anything that would be a nice celebration of my mother's 60th.
I was so hurt/stunned/angry I hung up. My mother didn't get it.
Fast forward to this summer (oh, and I did in the end manage to arrange a lovely birthday for my mother's 60th with surprise arrivals of two of her oldest friends at the family gathering in the south of france) - my brother seems to have got ove his "blip" - surprisingly as I (and others) really thought that he was "properly" ill, and not just being difficult.
He has taken a job in a rural part of a country in northern Europe. Lovely. Gorgeous, with a /lovely/ house, almost guaranteed employment (VERY hard to get rid of him, should the people in charge ever want to do so 鈥 good for him) etc. The house is 10 times bigger than ours.
So, yes, I am slightly jealous about this, especially living in a part of britain where having 10 square metres of land is seen as a huge garden.
But, ok, fairynuff.
Then, ther I am for the whole 5 days, and it keeps coming at me, the things, the the help, the transport, the favours that my parents have extended to this part of the family. Things from my (terribly missed) paternal grandmother's estate, things from my parents house (we all live in diffent countries so transport is always going to be an issue, but I had paid 鈥 to my mind 鈥 an excessive amount to get some bits and bobs and furniture [something like half a luton van full] transported to my bit of Europe 鈥 and my brother had had all the bits he wanted ([more like two lorries worth] paid for by my parents.
Then there was the sofa my dad /had/ offered to me and OH 鈥 but we agreed that transport would be hopeless. Well, my dad took it apart (it was not a self-assembly item, and my dad is not very apt in these things), AND drove it to my brother's new house. Well, if he had lived within 100 miles from my parent's house, fair enough, but the distance is about equal, and we are talking about 1000km.
Well, the sofa wasn't a deal-breaker but again, and again, and again over the stay of only a few days there were things that just slapped the [forgotten, or trying to at least] old obvious preference.
Then, on the third night I was there, we all had a bit too much wine. I discovered that my brother had borrowed the Pink Floyd album 鈥渁 momentary lapse of reason鈥 from one of his neighbours, and 鈥 especially given the rather isolated and glorious surroundings of my brother's house, thought I would sit down and listen to the intro before going to bed.
My mother appeared almost immediately.
Now, had she said, 鈥渋t's a bit loud鈥 or 鈥 you won't keep it up for long, will you鈥, or 鈥渓ook, I'm really tired, you are not going to make a lot of noise鈥 - all good.
BUT she said 鈥'mickey' didn't sleep well last night, so you must turn it down鈥
I am afraid I got very angry and upset.
And yes, it was partly due to the wine, but I was still upset the next mornin, and had a bit of an argument with my mother (she is VERY good at ignoring these things as long as you are not actually exploding in her face), and am STILL very upset and angry about everything now 3 weeks later. Obviously there is a bit more to it than I have put in here, but I am desperately trying to be fair, but I am waking up almost shouting, and really angry.
Please tell me to calm down and how to do it.
Or tell me how to make my peace with my mother. I think the whole outburst was a real shock to her, but it certainly wasn't to me, and I am getting the idea that it wasn't news to my dad....
I really exploded at her, about 4 times, (4 completely sober) and I am left with this impression that I am whinging, annoying and the root of the problem now the 鈥渇amily鈥 (a.k.a. My brother) is fine again.
In other words, I feel like my getting over my feelings of being second best were all down to the fact that my brother was being a right so and so, and I was a helpful intermediary at the time. Now he is fine again, I don't count?
I don't know, but I am surprised and taken aback both by my anger and by my parents' seeming incomprehension. Have I imagined it all??Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 7
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Monday, 6th September 2010
hi cheshirecat,
I think I made an error in posting the background in three posts - I thought it would make more sense like that, but actually it seems to have broken it up too much.
(pre-mod!)
hopefully it will make more sense now I have put up all three.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 8
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Monday, 6th September 2010
I realise a bit of cross-posting has occured.
You sound as though you have been the sane and sensible one over the years, being supportive, being the one who organises the birthday bash for your mother and yet you seem totally unappreciated. Your mother's comment about spending time with her grandchildren on said birthday seems to cut into you because you have stayed childless (i.e. your mother appears to be choosing your brother's offspring over what you are offering her).
As someone who is coming up to the same age as your mother I can understand her choice. I have two grown children, both partnered, and only one of them has children. I spend a lot of time with my grandchildren
1. Because I like them
2. I believe I can provide support to their parents by spending time with them
3. I have knowledge and values that I want to pass on to them
It does not mean that I love the parent of the grandchildren more than my other child. I love them both equally and totally. I am immensly proud of both of them. I would be delighted if either of them asked me waht I want to do to celebrate my birthday - but actually I don't want to be asked - I don't want to have to make the decison, I'd rather be told that X is my birthday treat.
So the above may seem to be all about me but perhaps it may be similar to what your mother is experiencing too.
ccLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 9
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Monday, 6th September 2010
It can be the smallest things that rankle us - a teddy bear that 'moved' from childhood home when deceased relative died and went to 'stay' in another's house. (someone had given that to me!!! UNFAIR)
My OH had a teddy that his big sister took to Italy with her and it has never returned (UNFAIR). When his mother died their relationship ceased - they never phone, never write - their mother was the glue.
Do not be worried that you lost your temper, especially if this something that you tend not to do, as it can help to shift things. Imagine all the things that cause anger - injustice would be right in there (think equality, women's lib, votes for all, etc.) - all of which caused a shift in thinking.
Having a good rant on here can probably be cathartic too.
ccLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 10
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Monday, 6th September 2010
thank you westie, I am sure you are right.
It was my slightly surprising total gut-reaction against my parents this summer that has left me feeling upset all over again, angry, under-valued, and, damn-it! guilty.
But perhaps I DID over-react?
And if I didn't then, YES, you are right, I should walk away.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 11
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Monday, 6th September 2010
thanks cheshirecat,
writing it all down has made me come over all unneccessary again.
I do realize that grandchildren appearing is going to have an effect on the grandparents (to be and then current). And given just what an over-whelming, enormous amount my grandparents ment to me, and how lucky I was to know them all (some of them for longer than others, but they were all fantastic), I perhaps shouldn't have been surprised, but the complete shunting away from me/my feelings stung horribly.
But I think I can probably understand it to some extent.
But yes, you are right, one of the main reasons I came on here and re-registered is to have a darn good rant.
And, I do sort of feel guitly, and feel angry about feeling guilty.
argh.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 12
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
I feel a bit like you with regard to my family. They can be really insensitive and thoughtless, too.
And I, too, live far away from them.
Basically, one has to try and shrug one's shoulders and think "bloody fools" and "idiots" from time to time in an attempt to shield oneself. I mean.. you think that they at least would be nice to you, having known you since birth, that they must realise that, actually, you're quite nice and that they must notice the efforts you make and give you some credit for that... but no... you're the idiot, the person that gets discounted, overlooked, put down.
Put it this way, if they didn't happen to be my family, I'd not have anything to do with them. So really, one shouldn't let oneself get dragged down by what they do or say because they're not people you'd have contact with anyway.
Basically, try not to let them get to you.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 13
Posted by Small boy in third row (U2247664) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Tue, 07 Sep 2010 07:42 GMT, in reply to confused30something in message 11
Confused, I wonder if your parents have seemingly favoured your brother over the years not because they prefer him to you in any way but because they felt he needed their help, whereas you seemed to be managing perfectly well on your own. He's younger than you too, which I think is significant, they've still been treating him as the baby, as if he hasn't entirely grown up (dismantling a sofa and driving it 1000 miles!).
I think parents can sometimes put labels on their children and treat them accordingly. Your brother's label is perhaps "needy/our baby" and yours "coper/the sensible one", something like that? They must have been very worried by your brother's behaviour over the years whereas you've clearly been something of a rock to them. Now they've seen that the rock can get upset too! So perhaps no bad things that you finally cracked and told them how you've been feeling.
I think now you need to explain yourself to them calmly, rather than in an upset/emotional way. By phone, face to face, by letter/email, whatever works best for you. This is obviously still eating away at you so try to find some resolution.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 14
Posted by Finally (U2221028) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Your situation has a lot in common with my own, especially with the attention given to grandchildren. Just when I thought we would all be grown ups, and maybe treat each other more equally, those with chidlren do seem to be more the centre of the family. Which I suppose is what they are. *sigh*
Does it help to remember the trite advice that you can't change their behaviour; you can only change how you respond. Your mother does seem stuck in a very old fashioned view of the world, where men simply counted for more, and women got on with doing the work in the background. Could that be how she feels about herself? It's easy for an outsider to pity her; less easy when I see my own mother demonstrating this view of the world. And o/h's did the same, too. Her daughter lived close, and did lots for her mother with really very little thanks at all; her son visited once or twice a year and didn't take much notice of his mother inbetween times. Even so, when we visited, no matter who was speaker, her eyes never left him for a moment.
Maybe putting some distance, emotionally as well as physically between you and them would help. You can choose your friends, your family is chosen for you. How do you feel about the life you have built for yourself away form them? are you appreciated there? Maybe your energies are better focussed on those who appreciate you.
And you can allow yourself to feel sorry for the family members who are stuck in old ways of thinking. See what they are missing, and that they are unable to appreciate soem of the good things they have in life, like you. All the best, your rant has helped me get some things straight, ahead of my visit to my family this afternoon, so thanks for that, too. F xxLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 15
Posted by tillytrolly (U8311312) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
What Rachel said (brilliantly.....couldn't have done that)
Children....even when they are of mature years....often have problems seeing their parents as "just people" like them &, as Rachel said, I think parents often have labels for their children. I can think of one family where the mother has a completely incorrect idea of what one of her children is really like....based on what she'd like them to be. In this instance, they're not worse or bad or anything....just different. It's a bit like a father being interested in cricket & hoping his son will be the same & the son is mad about rugby . In the family I know, the mother has built up a completely false idea of her grown up child's political opinions.
Also, I think , it's a very mixed thing....parents want their children to be able to cope etc, but there's also something that satisfies them in needing to be needed...especially as they get older...they feel useful & valued.
I can't express what I want to say very well, except to say that family relationships are very complex & attitudes can be formed by things that happened way back in our early childhoods that we can't remember....as parents' attitudes can be formed by something then....in the case I'm thinking of, the mother's in laws desperately wanted a grandson & were disappointed when the child was a girl ....the mother never got on with her in laws & has somehow always assumed that her daughter must share her attitude to life....ie a kind of "alliance" against the in laws.
I think all you/anyone can do is "play it by ear" & be who you are to your parents & try not to dwell on the subconscious stuff. But it's not easyLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 16
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
You know what annoys me?
I keep saying to my mother that my sister isn't really getting enough out of life - in my view. She hasn't been on holiday for a couple of years because her fiance has bought an estate agency and can't find the time to go on holiday. So she goes in to work for him and uses up her holiday entitlement that way.
But.. I also point out to mum that F. has just worked for 22 years. Never done any course, never done any sport (like the keep-fit classes my mum used to do), has no new friends from school time, never goes out to concerts, the theatre, cinema, whatever. I keep saying that I don't think she's enjoying life.
I've even spoken to F. and she's dreading her 40th birthday next February. And I think that she realises that life is passing her by.
But.. whenever I mention this to mum, mum says "Oh, but F. works very hard." When I tell this to my friends, they laugh and say, "And what does she think you do?"
"Oh but F. gets home at 5 or 6 o'clock and she's tired." Well.. so are many people, but they do more than eat and watch TV.
F's fiance says that she lacks self-confidence. Don't know why because she has above-average intelligence and I've been trying to encourage her for 20 years.
But what I resent is the implication that F. works hard and is therefore tired and .. I must be sitting down picking my nose all day.
i went to the gym yesterday even though I was still sore from the walk on Sunday but my resolution is to go to the gym three times a week and so I do. I also have hobbies and go out and about all the time.
But oh, F. works hard and so can't do any of that.
As I pointed out to mum yesterday, when F. retires at 67, she will have worked for 49 years and will only have a three-week trip to the US to look back on (besides work). I just feel she's missing out. And I feel that she thinks so, too.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 17
Posted by Doodlysquat (U13738858) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:12 GMT, in reply to tillytrolly in message 15
Campbell in Clogs said something very wise a couple of weeks ago. I cannot remember the exact words but it was something like this....
The trouble with families. Blood is thicker than water, and messier and also contains clots.
I liked it so much that I wrote it down in my notebook.....which I have misplaced, hence the slightly dodgy quote.
I too have familial "issues" and can get very agitated about the whole tiresome mess. Distance is a wonderful thing, be it geographical or emotional.
suzeLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 18
Posted by DeeKay Bee - Disenfranchised (U236881) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
The children of the favoured child are quite likely to be the favoured grandchildren - so having children yourself would possibly have given you something else to fret about. Not that I'm bitter or anything... oh no...
Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 19
Posted by Adaptery (with brackets) (U13803003) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Actually, I went through something similar with my mother at a similar age.
I think the trouble is that if they think you are dependable, then they are pulled away by the demanding ones then just forget about the more dependable one. I can see this in my own family now they are older and do my best to talk things through with them as I don't want them to feel the way I did.
As DeeKay says, having children just makes it worse. The favoured child in our family had the favoured children - they all needed that extra bit of help and she was the one to give it. I have other siblings who feel the same.
After the rows, things were never resolved as she thought I was in the wrong and would come round eventually. I thought she would understand but she didn't. I did not manage to make things better for my younger siblings as I had hoped.
I just had to get on with my own life and stop trying to please her as I had all through my childhood. I felt trapped in this straightjacket of the reliable eldest daughter who was there to back her up. Things had moved on and my relationship with my husband and children were now my priorities. I carried on doing what I should - visiting, phone calls ( she rarely called me) birthday cards etc. I learned to 'do what you can do and don't feel guilty about what you can't'.
It is sad but although she was my mother and I have happy memories to look back on, I don't really miss her since she died.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 20
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
DeeKayBee - you are spot on there!
Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 21
Posted by confused30something (U14604188) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Thank you all, some very interesting and thoughtful comments. Just what I was hoping for (apart from : anyone got a magic bullet anywhere, please?)
Rachel, I think you are onto something there
my mother was totally taken aback when I retorted (when she said once again that I am so "strong") that the last year nearly drove me to seek medical help (work stress). And my father said, well, you never tell us.
Cue pick up jaw from floor. I have had extensive phone conversations with them, with my mother in particular about how difficult a time it has been at work and how I really wasn't sure I would have a job this time next year, and how we have sat down and calculated how long we could keep the mortgage going if it came to it.
These bits of information have clearly not registered at all (she kept saying "I'm sure you will be alright" - why? it was a general cut-backs issue - radical cuts)
Sure, I am quite good at coping. I can however also flap and panic, and can of course also get very low. I am a pretty normal human being. Argh.
I think now you need to explain yourself to them calmly, rather than in an upset/emotional way. By phone, face to face, by letter/email, whatever works best for you. This is obviously still eating away at you so try to find some resolution. 听 yes, I know..... It's not easy. I have written 4 long letters, but I keep ending up either being furious in them, or starting to apologize (argh!), so have not sent any yet.
You can choose your friends, your family is chosen for you. How do you feel about the life you have built for yourself away form them? are you appreciated there? Maybe your energies are better focussed on those who appreciate you.
听 very true, and I do like living here, have some lovely friends and am generally pretty happy with my life here.
Finally, I don't think that she really believes in the men comes first business. I have thought quite a bit about that after reading your post - and I can totally see that this could be the issue in some families, but I don't think that is it in her case.
cheshirecat, some very sensible things there about how my mother might feel. And yes, i guess I did know on an intellectual level that the grandchildren would sort of take over. {sigh}Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 22
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
TOJS - you can't live your sister's life for her. She has made/is making her own choices and is recognising that perhaps she isn't getting the best out of life. However they are her choices.
You may be acting as a role model for her by the level of travel, activities that you are engaged in - on the other hand, that may not be what she wants for herself, preferring to use her energies at work.
As we go through life we do evaluate what matters to us and sometimes make the changes to enable us to achieve what we want. Life is not over at 40, believe me.
ccLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 23
Posted by posh_scouse_pinnedwithpride (U2514024) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
I was always, 'the one with the personality' [Nan, thanks Nan... love you too]. Never the clever, or the good looking one.... always demoted to the kitchen at family do's, the unmarried one, the one who 'messed up', until my Aunt mentioned that the APs didn't worry about me because I had my head screwed on and would always survive, the others were the ones who needed encouragement.
Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 24
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Confused - sorry, a bit of cross posting again.
I'm guessing your mother wouldn't have 'heard' your message about the stress you were experiencing, after all 'you've coped in the past and therefore you'll cope in the future' is the probably the prevailing attitude. (Did you cope?)
There are times when you have to accept that is the attitude that greets you and consequently try to find alternative support elsewhere.
Sometime expectations that families will rally, support, understand, etc. are just that - expectations- and the reality is the opposite.
You've done right to write down your hurt and equally right not to post it off to them either.
ccLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 25
Posted by crossjackrussell (U9607019) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
Confused -msg 21
reminds me of my mother - I don't want to go into details but when she said she hadnt realised how dire the situation was because i hadnt said how serious things were etc etc although, I had, of course, told her these things - she just chose to ignore it all, as ever.
That was our last conversation. I realised I was wasting my breath, sadly.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 26
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Tuesday, 7th September 2010
My mother can also deny I've told her things. The problem with her is that she is often just trying to remember what she wants to say next before she forgets it so she's just waiting for a pause in the conversation and not taking anything else in.
Fortunately, I know that my dad and aunt have noticed the same so I can't be blamed for being fanciful.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 27
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Wednesday, 8th September 2010
I always felt my sister was the favoured one, and for some reasons I will not go into here, I think she was in some ways. But it wasn't all one way. I remember growing up being told she was the practical one, she was the arty one, blah, blah. I just got comments about my weight, or why no boy would ever want me, various things.
A few years ago, I was talking to my sister, and she grew up with being told I was the academic one, she never stuck to anything, blah, blah. We just got different things, only the rubbish stuff about ourselves and the good things about the other, so both of us felt the other was better off.
I think also it can be worse when there are boys and girls, because boys and girls aren't the same anyway (neither are boys and boys or girls and girls; we all have different personalities, but it's more obvious if the sexes are different.)
But still, it is important to remember that you only see things through your own perception, and that that isn't the whole truth.
Having said that, things are they way they are, and your feelings and reactions are what they are. Have you considered counselling at all? It's certainly helped me settle some of my feelings about my mother.
You could just detach from it, stop being the competent, organising one, and just turn up when other people have done the work (or not.)
Another thing you could consider is telling your parents how you feel, but it's possible this will just stir up resentment, I don't know. Maybe a letter if not face to face - and sometimes, just writing the letter but not sending it can help.
Maybe that just sounds completely crazy - I think my mother, if I told her about some of the resentments I felt, would have had no memory of them, and told me not to be silly, she couldn't have said that, I must have got it wrong. Or that I'd done something to deserve it (one of the things she did always acknowledge was that I have a good memory and could remember when various family events were and so on. In fact, having a good memory was something she rather disapproved of, something I understand a bit more, now I know more about her life and how much was deliberately forgotten, at least at a surface level.) But because things were never her fault, over the years, I just stopped telling her things, particularly about hopes and dreams and feelings. Concrete things like, "I am going to Kent next week," would be fine, but not, "I'm thinking of going for this really good job." And I also never told her when I was on antidepressants or a load of other things, so there would have been no way for her to know I wasn't always coping, or how some of the ways she treated me over the years had affected me - which is a very long-winded way of saying we have some responsibility for the course of relationships we're part of. People aren't telepathic, and if you don't tell them how things are, they can't necessarily be expected to know.
Having said all that, if you're all in your 30s, then you've probably all got into patterns of behaviour, and will probably be difficult to get people to change - that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but don't be surprised if you don't get great changes. So that's why I'd be putting some energy into counselling or something to help myself to accept the things I cannot change.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 28
Posted by funnyjazzbaby (U14389829) on Thursday, 9th September 2010
This thread has been a real eye opener for me and, for the following reasons, have no advice nor experience to share.
I am a childless only child and my next birthday will make me nearer to eighty than seventy..I hope.
My mother was also an only child and my father distanced himself both geographically and emotionally from most of his dysfunctional family.
Consequently I have never had to deal with the sort of problems you are all describing.
When I was younger I railed against my mother for not providing me with siblings as I always felt I had missed out on so much.
Her reasons became more obvious as I grew older but the resentment never really went away.
My own choice to not reproduce was 50% not being in the right place at the right time and 50% a selfish desire to remain 'free' whatever that means.
Maybe I got a better deal but I do tend to do things on my own a lot and I have never ever felt lonely.
I do however feel a little pang of envy when I hear the words 'My Sister'.
So, any comments I might make now deserve to be greeted with..
What the ** does she know?
I just hope that all who have family issues can find a way to resolve them.
FJBLink to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 29
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Thursday, 9th September 2010
I don't think that being an only child means you can't comment on the problems of siblings.
After all, how many male obstetricians are there? And they've never given birth. Doesn't mean they can't help a woman give birth.
Sometimes, being outside a situation means you can see things more objectively. A bit of distance gives one a clearer view sometimes - like looking at a picture close up. Sometimes, it all becomes much clearer when you step back and then take a look at it.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 30
Posted by Dame_Celia_ Molestrangler (U14257909) on Thursday, 9th September 2010
"Maybe that just sounds completely crazy - I think my mother, if I told her about some of the resentments I felt, would have had no memory of them, and told me not to be silly, she couldn't have said that, I must have got it wrong. Or that I'd done something to deserve it (one of the things she did always acknowledge was that I have a good memory and could remember when various family events were and so on. In fact, having a good memory was something she rather disapproved of, something I understand a bit more, now I know more about her life and how much was deliberately forgotten, at least at a surface level.) But because things were never her fault, over the years, I just stopped telling her things, particularly about hopes and dreams and feelings. Concrete things like, "I am going to Kent next week," would be fine, but not, "I'm thinking of going for this really good job." "
Blimey, Bearhug... you ARE me.
Exactly the same with me. If I shared my thoughts and feelings, I had "Don't be so silly" thrown at me. I felt that my feelings were being stamped on. And if I wanted to discuss things that had happened in the past, I got "Don't be so silly./I didn't mean it. (You said it that often enough, though, mum, that you must have.)/I can't remember that (So are you saying I'm lying?)" and so on and so forth.
With my family, anything I say is put down or negated or ridiculed or dismissed out of hand. Nothing I say is ever considered and actually responded to. Any comment I make is just batted away as though it were a cricket ball. I could talk to the wall (or my teddy bears) and get exactly the same response, albeit without the hurtful, dismissive comments.Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
-
Message 31
Posted by Thanks for all the fish (U10654037) on Thursday, 9th September 2010
I discovered that my brother had borrowed the Pink Floyd album 鈥渁 momentary lapse of reason鈥 from one of his neighbours, and 鈥 especially given the rather isolated and glorious surroundings of my brother's house, thought I would sit down and listen to the intro before going to bed.
My mother appeared almost immediately.
Now, had she said, 鈥渋t's a bit loud鈥 or 鈥 you won't keep it up for long, will you鈥, or 鈥渓ook, I'm really tired, you are not going to make a lot of noise鈥 - all good.
BUT she said 鈥'mickey' didn't sleep well last night, so you must turn it down鈥澨
My circumstances are similar to yours, and this in particular rang bells. Three years ago I had a rubbish year health-wise, but seemed to be coming out of it only for me to start a heavy cold a couple of days before Xmas. We were all at my parents', and when I got up that morning, feeling lousy and really rather down, I said to my mother that I was starting another cold. Her response? 'Well, make sure you don't give it to Dan (my brother), he's got an interview in the new year.' In fairness to her she had the grace to look abashed when for once in my life I actually pulled her up about it.
But as to how to deal with this? Now I can let most of it wash over me, but occasionally the unfairness of it all does hit home. My 'revenge' if you like is to spend as little time with her as I possibly can. This does bother her, but only in a keeping up with the Joneses kind of way. * sigh *Link to this forum: otherwise? sibling rivalry? now how do I put this...
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or 听to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
主播大秀 iD
主播大秀 navigation
主播大秀 links
主播大秀 漏 2014 The 主播大秀 is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.