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Gestalt, anyone?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 16:08 GMT
Or counselling/psychotherapy in general?
I'm just starting a PG diploma in Gestalt and would love to have people here to chat about it, and/or about related things. Any takers? -
Message 2
Posted by Looby-Lewis (U11820972) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Good luck with the Diploma DD.
I'm afraid I've nothing to add to your thread other than to wish you well and I wondered if you would elaborate on Gestalt, please. -
Message 3
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 21:48 GMT, in reply to Looby-Lewis in message 2
oh eek. Calling kris, calling kris... -
Message 4
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Hey DD,
i will e you soonish, honestly. Just have a brain that goes "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH" at the moment.
it's been 20 odd years since i did my Gestalt Diploma...but just found this site that looks absolutely perfect for you.
From what i can see it allows you read hundreds of free books and papers on gestalt. Haven't looked around it yet but i will do so as it looks interesting and my soggy brain could do with a bit of (lot of) a cognitive kick..
kris x -
Message 5
Posted by Sister Primrose of the Red Tinsel Flag (U5405579) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Don't know enough about it to know whether this is one of wiki's reliables/unreliables.
PP -
Message 6
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
hahah i didn't even see your post and i was already on the case!
serendipity my dear, serendipity... -
Message 7
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:02 GMT, in reply to Primrose Path in message 5
Thanks, Primmers. I know too much and nowhere near enough to be able to summarise briefly, if you see what I mean.
And wonderful site, kris, and please don't worry about owling me. As and when. You have quite enough to deal with just now. -
Message 8
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
If it's the same as "mindfulness" (which a quick glance at that Wiki link suggests it may be) then I think Mr T is a fan of that if she is around (but I think she may be busy moving at the moment).
Fee -
Message 9
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Oooh PP,
that site looks perfect as a starter. Will def be reviewing it myself. -
Message 10
Posted by Looby-Lewis (U11820972) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Interesting, thanks for the links folks.
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Message 11
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:17 GMT, in reply to Fee in message 8
I wouldn't say it was the same as mindfulness, no. I'd say the main thing is the idea that we exist/create our selves and our lives in relation...with others, with the environment...and that figure (what we are adverting to) and ground (the rest) are fluid...and that we spend our lives becoming ourselves...
...I could have been much more succinct a month ago, and with luck I will be able to be again in a couple of years...
To my confusion/alarm/consternation quite a lot of it is what I have been struggling to say for years. Reading books and hearing people talk about it is like coming home. Kierkegaard helps, of course. -
Message 12
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
< wouldn't say it was the same as mindfulness, no.>
Yes, I read a bit further and could see that the earlier sentence had misled me.
seems pretty unarguable.
It's always good to come across a language and vocabulary that helps explain what you've been doing/thinking anyway - I found the same when I did some more formal study of learning and teaching after I'd been involved in it as a matter of practice for some years. The language makes it so much easier to move the thinking on.
Fee -
Message 13
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:35 GMT, in reply to Fee in message 12
Well, I hope Fritz Perl will forgive me if I misquote him, but the point of "becoming oneself" (and this is just expanding or unpacking what Kierkegaard said) is that we *think* that to become happier, more effective, whatever, we need to try to be *different* - that's wrong. The paradox is that the more we try to be different, the more we actually do not change. The way to change is to see and accept who we are (in-relation-to, of course, always).
Actually, it is very much what GK Chesterton meant when he talked about seeing familiar things for the first time. -
Message 14
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Ok..this bit (from the wkpedia link) is not correct:
Gggrrrrrrrrrrr....
Introjection is indeed a pivitol tenet of psa (psychoanalysis) but...it is for the client to introject his/her own newly forming realities and certainly not for the therapist to introjevt their superior selves.
Gggggrrrrrr...I say again.
But. I am telling you this Dd because i found the article to be a)informative and b) as true to gestalt therapy as i remember it. Yet it is flawed by the one paragraph (and so possibly others). So, DD, a good reminder to stick to reading material which has been accredited and/or you can be sure has been validated.
And be careful of tenet bias.
And breathe kris. -
Message 15
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:43 GMT, in reply to kris in message 14
Dinnae fash, kris, I am reading all sorts of good stuff, and I was very impressed with the tutors. And one day I may be able to remember whether it is Perl or Perls without having to look it up.
I should say that I didn't understand a word of your post, but that could be the lateness of the hour and a dram of Bowmore. It is certainly me rather than you. -
Message 16
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Yes, for goodness sake do.
Do you mean that the Wiki bit was OK in its description of gestalt but inaccurate in saying that traditional psychoanalysis involves the therapist's interpretations being given to the client? That both should lead the client to their own discoveries?
Fee -
Message 17
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Hey DD (and Hi Fee)
Taking into account your last post...Perls was heavy on existentialism.
There was/is indeed a paradox in this: On the one hand,as you have said, there is the Gestalt idea that the more we try to change the more we stay the same. Then the existentialist notion of personal choices being unique and not necessitaing objectivity - thrown into the mix..
So Gestalt therapy is all about the ways in which our relationship to/with others affects personal growth, but it is also about constructing a sense of self and 'finding' the meaning of life through free will, choice, and personal responsibility. A bit of a paradox really...
But true never-the-less; man ain't an island after all.
I guess what i'm saying is that it's hard to understand where Perls et al were coming from without understanding the 'spriritual' existential beliefs that shaped the tenets.
Oh gawd, my poor brain...where did it go? Off to sleep in the hope it will return asap. -
Message 18
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Hi Fee,
yep, tht's exactly what i was saying. Gestalt is one of the many off-shoots of psa. And as with all therapies which divert from the basic roots of psychoanalysis (often making very interesting and important diversions) exponents of it (off-shoot) will try to undermine the original therapy by distorting the concepts and tenets.
This is just not helpful because a) it means that therapies become less eclectic and more driven toward a linear goal and b) those who are learning and possibly have a chance to grow or be enthused are likely to miss out on some excellent therapeutic tools.
I call myself a Psychoanaly because that was the school i was trained under. But i do use an eclectic mix of therapies because it would be counter-productive to my client (and probably self0 to be rigid in my interpretation of "Best" therapy tools. -
Message 19
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
OOOps Drystane,
it is very likely that it is that my posts make no sense, sorry. I have a lot of catching up to do before my brain and oxygen levels match each other.
I'm hopeful that i will begin to make sense in the forthcoming future...don't bank on it though. Sorry. -
Message 20
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Saturday, 11th September 2010
Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:40 GMT, in reply to kris in message 19
kris, I don't have the excuse of low oxygen levels, but I am 99% sure that it was my brain and not yours at fault!
Why are we all not aszzzzleep?
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