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Alcohol Concerns October 2010
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Message 1.聽
Posted by doughy hood (U2352167) on Saturday, 2nd October 2010
Here is October鈥檚 thread.
If alcohol use (or abuse) 鈥 either your own or that of someone else 鈥 concerns you or has concerned you in the past then this is the thread for you. It is the latest in a series of threads which have been running now for nearly four years now, providing mutual support for those concerned about someone鈥檚 use of alcohol and for those involved in picking up the pieces (material and emotional) in the aftermath of such use 鈥 and for those maintaining the recovery from their previous problems. Anyone is very welcome to come and share any of their experiences, good or bad, or simply to use it as an outlet for their feelings (whether to let off steam or to celebrate). Don鈥檛 worry if what you have to say does not follow on from whatever the previous posts were talking about. Newcomers are always very welcome.
Situations discussed on here have ranged from those in which the poster was unsure whether or not there was anything to worry about to those of drinking at life-threatening levels which wrought havoc in the lives of both the drinkers and those around them. The word 鈥渁lcoholic鈥 can be a problematic one and some of us do not use it, talking instead about people drinking harmfully or hazardously or becoming dependent on alcohol.
We have posters who are still struggling to deal with alcohol (or with the drinkers in their lives) and posters who have struggled in the past but now have their lives on an even keel. I will post the usual links giving details of some sources of help used at the end of this post. Quite a number of us are involved with either Alcoholics Anonymous or Al Anon (for those with problem drinkers in their lives), which are mutual support groups using the 12 step method of recovery, but we recognise that these do not suit or work for everyone.
Past experience has shown that this thread works best when we keep to talking about our own collective experiences. Posters who do not have concerns about alcohol in their own lives but want to learn more about a problem which is much misunderstood are very welcome - we have a number of regulars who drop in from time to time - and it's always good to see them.
Here are the usual links, at least one of which I hope will prove useful to any newcomers. Please, when you're ready, introduce yourselves if you're lurking whatever the problem. We've all been there one way or another, and if we haven't, we know someone who has.
Here is a link to September鈥檚 thread:
Grateful thanks for Fee鈥檚 OP some months ago that I have borrowed (and changed, so any mistakes are mine, not Fee鈥檚).
Doughy. -
Message 2
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 2nd October 2010
Thanks, Doughy. Just bookmarking for the moment -will come back later (or tomorrow) and post something for the start of the month.
For now, I'll just wish all posters and lurker a serene October.
Fee -
Message 3
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Saturday, 2nd October 2010
Sat, 02 Oct 2010 18:58 GMT, in reply to Fee in message 2
Thanks, Doughy - I lurk here; there's the honesty, the mutual help and the humour, also some of my best friends have had issues with alcohol and other substances, and I know how valuable this thread is. -
Message 4
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Saturday, 2nd October 2010
Thanks Doughy.
I mostly lurk on this thread too. Like a lot of parents at times I've wondered if my youngest daughter would get through to young adulthood in one piece, but she has and I owe a lot to you all on this thread for enabling me to speak with her with more authority than I would have had otherwise.
That is possibly dreadful English, but it's how it is. -
Message 5
Posted by PepperTree But No Petard (U13945752) on Saturday, 2nd October 2010
It was suggested that I should open this month's thread on account of the fact that I have my forth anniversary looming. However, what with one thing or another I didn't feel up to it; probably symptomatic of my reluctance to face reality at times. In my defence, I'm pretty certain that I did open it a couple of years ago, so I hope I am still in credit so far as my civic 'duty' is concerned.
Yes, four booze free years' anniversary is looming. I just stopped completely, although I gather that is not recommended practice and can in cetain circumstances be dangerous. I did not look for any RL support. I didn't go to AA, for example, and I don't know anybody that I can talk to about it. I still have booze in the house, but it doesn't bother me any more. I am not boasting about that; it is just the way it is. -
Message 6
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Saturday, 2nd October 2010
Thanks so much Doughy. Bookmarking. Basia, 9 years sober through AA.
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Message 7
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Thanks Doughy
Bookmarking too .
Oz 17months -
Message 8
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Thank you for opening October Doughy. I am in the midst of more crisis at the moment with R so will just bookmark and come back later.
Boots -
Message 9
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Sorry to hear about your crisis Boots, I hope it gets resolved.
I think of the beginning of each month's thread as being like the bit at the beginning of an Al Anon meeting where everyone is asked to introduce themselves by their first name only and, if they feel like it, say how they are feeling - and one of my meetings extends that to saying why they are here (one person just says they are there because they want to be there) as well as how they are feeling.
So, I'm Fee and I started posting in these threads because I had a husband who was what might be described as a functioning alcoholic (his drinking was a problem for him and for his close family but few others either socially or at work realised it). He got sober just over three years ago (and some of the ideas I acquired here and passed on to him undoubtedly helped with that) and then left some months later - we had grown apart during the drinking years and he had no appetite to close the gap - so I don't live with an alcoholic of any sort any more - but I find that Al Anon and this thread help me deal with the consequences of the past. The past also, I have recently discovered, includes an alcoholic great-grandmother and that discovery together with what I now know about the likely consequences of growing up in an alcoholic environment explains a lot of family patterns and a lot of myself to me.
At the moment I'm feeling an odd combination of adventure as over the next couple of weeks I move into new city, new home and new job - and sadness - I'm concentrating hard on the unwanted opportunity approach at the moment.
I think there are five things which I always feel that I most want to pass on at the start of each month (thinking of passing lurkers who might not get passed the first page. First, problem drinking/alcoholism does not require someone to fit the park bench stereotype - it did not occur to me for many years to identify my husband's problem because he did not fit my stereo-type of someone who drank in the morning etc etc - if alcohol use is a problem, it's a problem however it manifests itself (although it took me quite a long time to correlate my husband's moods and behaviour with drinking).
Second, that AA and Al Anon are not religious groups (although depending on the membership of any particular group you might need to work hard at translating the notion of a higher power into the collective wisdom of the group).
Third, that no-one else causes someone to drink problematically, that no-one else can control someone's drinking or "cure" them unless they want it for themselves.
Fourth, that in discussions here and at Al Anon/AA the thing is to look for the similarities rather than the differences - to take what you like - and leave the rest.
Finally, that most things can be solved by an application of the ideas in the serenity prayer - the ability to accept the things we can do nothing about, the courage to change the things we can and (the difficult bit) the wisdom to know the difference.
The preamble to the introductions at an Al Anon meeting also suggests that we keep it brief - but the good thing about this thread is that I do not have to put a limit on the length of my ramblings - and anyone who gets fed up with them can simply scroll on by.
Off now to sort out my wardrobe and work out what I can leave here for the moment and what needs to come with me. Have a good day all.
Fee -
Message 10
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
I've never knowingly scrolled past one of your posts Fee. :0)
Just to wish you happiness from your unwanted opportunity. -
Message 11
Posted by Claribel (U2264645) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
I'm Claribel and I have a close friend who has problems with alcohol. I have learned a lot from this thread, and the three Cs (referred to by Fee in her great post above) have helped me not only with this friend but also with other things in my life. I have always been someone who wants to 'fix' everything; I am slowly learning that I can't, and to focus on the things I can do something about rather than the things that are outside my control. A good friend's wife died suddenly recently and I have found the three Cs really helpful in that context too.
Best wishes to everyone.
Claribel -
Message 12
Posted by Claribel (U2264645) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Just realised that Fee weaved the three Cs into a sentence so it might not be clear to new readers what I'm talking about: the three Cs are - you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it. I may have got those in the wrong order!
Fee, best of luck with your new job and new home. -
Message 13
Posted by Bizzie Lizzie (U2255808) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Sun, 03 Oct 2010 11:49 GMT, in reply to Claribel
Hello, everybody - I'm Liz and I'm mostly a lurker on these threads.
Like Claribel - and I suspect many other lurkers and posters - hearing about the 3 C's:
you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it聽
lifted a huge weight of guilt from my shoulders, and switched on a light.
My A died well over 10 years ago, and I worried that I should have done more to stop them drinking. I also had family members who expected me to be able to do something more, because I'm seen as the organised one who sorts things out: some of them still think that.
Best wishes to all who lurk and post here. -
Message 14
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Congrats again on 4 TPS. Let us know which day so we can mark it again, if you wouldn't mind.
I used to have booze in the house for guests, left over from a dinner or birthday party, but I got rid of every last drop in the last year. If my friends want to drink, they bring it, and take it home with them, and that's understood. My old sponsor used to ask me why I had it. I think I was proving something to myself, but I'm not in competition with myself, not any longer. Not having a pop at you TPS, in fact I did the same for years. It just seemed a daft taking up of precious space in my kitchen cabinets, which in NYC, believe me, is at a premium. -
Message 15
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Thank you for that Fee. This is always worth repeating as people in denial, whether from the drinker's point of view or that of their family and friends, will go through the mental check list of what defines an alcoholic/problem drinker....Is there drinking in the morning? Is there drinking every day? Are they the worst drinkers in their circle? Etc. A no to any of these questions can lead people to wrongly believe there's no problem. As my old spons used to say "If you think there's a problem, there probably is one." -
Message 16
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
I keep confusing you with nic, Bash, in that disguise.
Yes, TPS, I meant to say congratulations but got distracted by Boots - and yes you did open the thread a little while back - I was looking for something from an old thread a few days ago and noticed it. I don't think anyone should feel obliged to open the thread anyway if they don't feel they want to.
Thanks for your good wishes Westie and Claribel.
Fee -
Message 17
Posted by PepperTree But No Petard (U13945752) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
I don't know the exact date. I remember going on an office 'awayday' at the very beginning of October 2006 and got absolutely slaughtered in the hotel bar in the evening. The rest of the crew were smashed as well so my condition went unremarked upon.
I didn't stop actual drinking on that night, but I took the decision a few days later. I therefore regard it as having happened during the first week of October.
I therefore nominate Friday, 8 October 2010 as the de facto date.
I don't work now (a kick in the jacksy by my lifelong employer, in order to 'down-size' the business). I worked hard and travelled extensively and have been to many distant places. On the way I forgot one important thing; the need to make some friends. I left work quietly and am now largely forgotten. I had not realised the burning need for human companionship, if only on a business relationship basis. Although I no longer have any human contact in the true meaning of the phrase I have at least managed to keep the 'beast' at bay. In fact, in that regard I think I am more resolute than ever.
I never 'met' anyone, therefore I did not breed so I don't have any generations, up or down, to look out for me. Fortunately I do have a reasonable pot of money to back me up and I try to pursue one or two interests. I am reasonably bright, but I am not clever, not smart. If I was I wouldn't be where I am today. I can't do crosswords, suduko, play chess or solve the rubrick cube.
My work skills have no practical application in my everyday life. I can wire a plug and drive a car, but I haven't a clue about how either of these things actually work. I have had a series of medical conditions that distress me greatly and I am on various types on medication.
So you see, although my 'booze anniversary' is a very real event, such is my life that I don't feel impelled to celebrate it in any joyous way. -
Message 18
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
TPS, I'm sorry you feel like that although I can understand why you do.
Are there not other activities which you could view as providing human companionship in the way that work did? When I had a few years at home with very small children that was rather how I viewed mother and toddler groups - and in some ways Al Anon meetings (although far more rewarding imo in themselves than mother and toddler groups) provide the same sort of contact as do the Ramblers, which I belong to and occasionally manage to find time to walk with.
I did not really learn how to make friends as a child and it's something I'm catching up with rather late in life - one of the things which gives me the greatest pleasure is that both my children seem to have accumulated a group of friends who look like remaining part of their lives into the future.
I'm glad you've added an identifier to the Curly Top, Bash, or that might have been an even more effective disguise than Nick Cave.
Fee -
Message 19
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
Re-reading, that does not make as much sense as I intended - I meant that Al Anon and the Ramblers provided human contact in the same way that the mother and toddler groups did. I hesitate to suggest AA but you could always view it as an opportunity for some human company. Or is there a U3A (university of the third age - not as intimidating as it sounds)where you are?
Fee -
Message 20
Posted by nouveau commencement (U14635185) on Monday, 4th October 2010
Good Morning,
I have been looking at these threads for sometime; though it has taken quite some while for me to admit to myself that I do have a problem with drinking.
I function each day, kids are got to school with dinner money and PE kits etc, I get to work each day and hold down three jobs. I think friends and work colleagues would consider me to be a bit of a party animal, but not a problem drinker. But I have gotten to the stage that I am unable to make it though the evening without a bottle of wine or two, "stressful day", "bad week" are handy phrases. For a while my partner had been working away and the sociable drink we used to share at the end of the day; became a solitary activity.
Money has become rather tight and debts have mounted, last week we were looking at ways to cut costs and then the dreadful realisation of how much was being spent on drinking hit home.
Yesterday morning I made the conscious decision not to drink for a week; friends came round last night and on a night I'd have usually got blasted I spent on orange juice. Really suprised that I actually had a good evening, can remember the whole night and have no hangover.
I hope that this is a new beginning and that I have the self control to continue this. -
Message 21
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Monday, 4th October 2010
Welcome nouveau commencement - a good name for a new start. I expect those who have been in your position will be along soon.
I'm just making a flying visit in and out - am pay as you go dongle-dependent at the moment for anything which requires more than reading on the internet (can't be bothered to post on an iphone) so being a bit mean with my connection time.
I'm currently sat in front of the absolutely superb view (it's a really beautiful day although I was above the fog earlier this morning) from my new garret trying to second-guess the heating and hotwater system which appears to lack any sort of instructions.
I hope everyone is having a good day.
Fee -
Message 22
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Tuesday, 5th October 2010
Welcome Nouveau. Good to see a newcomer.
Scary moment isn't it? It's ok to be scared into stopping imo, whatever it takes. When people ask me how I pay for my cat rescue work, I often refer to the hideous amount of money I used to spend on booze and point out that the cat food costs a fraction of what my booze bill used to be.
<"stressful day", "bad week" are handy phrases. >
That made me laugh, I recognise those phrases along with "good day", "great week", "it's the weekend", "I deserve this", "I'm on holiday", "it's my day off" etc etc.
Mad thinking that one has to drink to have a good time but that was my reality for years. Glad you've seen that it's possible.
I've a lot to say about the expression self control in relation to getting sober, but will keep it brief for now. What helped me (and that's all I have to help anyone; what worked for me) is learning to ask for help, not trying to do it alone. That probably saved my life.
I hope you stick around and let us know how you're getting on NC.
Basia -
Message 23
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Tuesday, 5th October 2010
Hey Nouveau.
I read this in the morning but had to fly.
What can I say.
Been there
Seen that
Done that
Got the t-shirt.
Finally wot Bash said.
Hope to see you again soon.
Oz -
Message 24
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 5th October 2010
Bumping in case anyone is looking for October.
Fee -
Message 25
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Tuesday, 5th October 2010
It's between September and November, silly.
Getting coat. -
Message 26
Posted by nouveau commencement (U14635185) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
Thank you for the warm welcome to the thread.
Have had a difficult few days; felt like death warmed up; nasty mix of headaches and lack of sleep.
Yesterday had a stressful day at work. The lure of blanking it out was really strong; especially when I got home and my partner was "cracking open a few tinnies".
However, I am sat here, still hangover free, suprised that I have managed not to have a drink since Saturday. -
Message 27
Posted by PepperTree But No Petard (U13945752) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
nc, have you discussed this with your 'other half'? I mean the reason why you haven't taken alcohol since Saturday. Does he understand your concerns? Is he supportive? Do you think he may also have a problem?
I think your future success in dealing with your drinking will be influenced by his behaviour/attitude/support. -
Message 28
Posted by nouveau commencement (U14635185) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
TPS, Sunday morning was spent considering what I needed to do to put try to put my life back on track; there are a number of issues but the other things may well fall into place easier when drinking is under control (debt management, career, weight loss). Then having formulated a plan of action for week one, discussed with my partner and specifically asked for his help with regards to drinking.
And yes, he probably drinks too much as well, but is not at the stage to admit it. I think he comforts himself with the fact that he drinks less than me, that we never drink during the day, that we hold down jobs and and....
When I got in last night, he'd had quite a lot, and knowing I'd had a stressful day waved a can under my nose. No malice, just normal.
I have also discussed with my best friend, he had no idea that I had a problem; I think I come across as a happy party girl, always up for a laugh and a night out.
You're right with regards to support, and I need to talk to him again when he's sober. -
Message 29
Posted by PepperTree But No Petard (U13945752) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
So I think it is a bit 'good' for you and also a bit 'not so good'. I'm glad you are being open with people. It does however sound that your partner has some way to go, particularly on the sensitivity stakes. Maybe he is feeling a bit uncomfortable about it all, which would be quite understandable.
I remember 'happy party girls'. Many were in complete denial. One did open up and admit she was really frightened about what was happening to her and what lay in the future. But this was only after I had helped her up off the bar floor at 7PM one workday evening.
There are a number of experienced, articulate people who visit this thread regularly and I hope you will keep posting here. -
Message 30
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
You make it sound as though you are not of their number, TPS, which is clearly not true.
NC, in Al Anon (the common link between whose members is, as I'm sure you are aware, that they have problem drinkers in their lives) we place very strong emphasis on the principle that we do not cause our drinkers to drink and we cannot stop them from drinking if that is what they choose to do.
I think the corollary of this has to be that someone who really wants to stop drinking will not be stopped from doing so by what those around them choose to do. It is very unfortunate if your partner is not supportive (and if he has problems of his own he may very well not be) but ultimately you have to do what you have to do for you in the circumstances in which you find yourself - and sometimes people have to change their circumstances if those circumstances are making it difficult for them to get their lives back on track.
I hope that doesn't sound harsh or negative but I worry when I hear people sounding as though they are allowing their lives to be directed by what other people do or do not do. I hope that when you talk to your partner you can in fact get him to agree to organise his life so as to assist you to lead the life you want to lead.
Fee -
Message 31
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
Possibly ambiguous over-use of the word "stop" - let me re-phrase as saying that someone who really wants to stop drinking will not be prevented from stopping by what those around them choose to do.
(But of course someone who does not really want to stop might find it a very useful, possibly subconscious, get-out clause).
Fee -
Message 32
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
Hear hear Fee. TPS, I love your contributions for many reasons, one being that you're way more succinct than I am, yet you get your point across. I've just realised that I didn't respond to a previous post of yours but meant to. Found myself at a loss for words, for fear of sounding like some ra-ra cheerleader. -
Message 33
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
NC, good to see you again.
That gave me palpitations. I remember my first sponsor telling me to put some things up on a shelf, as I couldn't possibly make everything great immediately. I knew I couldn't in theory but I didn't know how to live calmly enough to let things take their time. I'd lived for so long in the "It has to happen now or it's all gone to hell" mindset
You're right,those may fall into place, and they may take a while, but at least you know it's unlikely that anything is going to get better if you carry on drinking. That's pretty huge, or it was to me. I had a defining moment with my 4 (at the time) cats, lined up in a row, waiting for dinner, which they always got no matter how drunk I was (not sure how I managed that), and I looked at those beautiful little trusting faces and realised that I wasn't going to be able to continue to look after them if I carried on drinking.
I would also like to say go easy on yourself. This sounds like you're setting yourself up. Forgive me if I'm speaking out of place (as I said I can only bring in my own experience as a a sober person and sponsor to 2 sponsees) but just staying sober can be a full time job in early days.
Allowing myself a hollow laugh there.
That's so horrible, it made me feel sick. No intended malice perhaps NC, but taking reponsibility for our actions requires more than 'It's what he normally does', especially after you've asked for his help.
Yes, no point doing it when someone's drunk.
Have you considered outside help like AA or a counselling service?
Basia -
Message 34
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
That sounds about right to me Fee.
And that. I have heard a lot of stories from people who retained their drinking friends, as I did (if only a handful), to watch them all fall away anyway, as heavy drinkers don't on the whole want sober people around them interfering with their mojo.
It wasn't exactly me cutting these people out of my life, but asking for a compromise on their time ie a coffee bar or tea somewhere, not a full-on evening at a bar. It dawned on me, and I was reluctant in this, that they weren't really very sincere friends if they couldn't see me without a drink in their hand. My company's not that excrutiating. And the acquaintances didn't notice anyway.
I got sober living alone, and have immense respect for those who manage it with partners who are still drinking heavily, none of whom, I ought to say, have managed it without major shifts taking place at home from their partners' side meaning a marked reduction in the partners' drinking and a change in general attitude to the notion of support.
Bx -
Message 35
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
Oh what an interesting set of posts.
TPS I loved both of your posts. No nonsense and direct but with the empathy of someone who knows.
It is dawn down here and reading your last post NC prickled with memories for me.
I was reluctant to ask for help when I first put down and indeed managed to stay "drink free" for some time but I inevitably picked up again. I admire the fact that you have already told your mate about your fears. I have lots of friends but never once did I speak to one of them face to face. Odd that but I was ashamed and frightened that they would judge me. Indeed I found myself spilling much of my fears on this thread or to those met on this MB.
I eventually went to AA (my path but not everyones) and thought that the fragments of my life would pull together and gel into something worthwhile. Alas I thought this would be fairly instant. God I was so naive.
However I soon learned from others that putting the drink down is the start and a bloody big one at that.
Clarity of thought and support from others made me assess my life and focus on the fundamentals that had got me to where I was as a drunk.
One day at a time is a bit of a cliche I know but it does work. I used to set goals of months and weeks and inevitably fell short so I listened to those that had trudged the same path and soon saw that the small achievements made minutes by minutes, hour by hour and day by day built up into a body of sobriety. Each day getting stronger and each day repairing the holes in the fabric of my life. I will be doing that for the rest of my life but that's OK.
Indeed I enjoy it most of the time.
I still have crap days and I still wake up some morning without a hangover but with a dirty great gob on me. It is for me to do something about that "gob" because I know from experience that if I don't I will suffer.
Oz -
Message 36
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Wednesday, 6th October 2010
Partners, friends and family.
Well there is a whole different bunch of nettles to grasp.
NC your husband was insensitive when he brandished the drink in front of you but as you say he had had a few so he was also drunk.
From that experience if you take nothing from it but that p*ssed people are insensitive and even cruel. Something that I trust you DON"T want to be.
Setting up boundaries is hard to do and I am the world's worst.
When my OH sat of an evening with a drink and then another it hurt like hell. It took a while to realise that I didn't have to stay in the same room and so when this type of scenario played out I got out.
I never really "went out " to bars and clubs but most of my drinking if not all was done at home. So it was down to me to change the dynamics that allowed me to drink.
I asked my husband to keep his alcohol outside in the store room fridge. I asked that he should respect my not drinking and I made sure that I had a ready stock of non alcoholic drinks at all times.
That was a long while ago now.
My husband hasn't had a drink in the home for ages, I can't remember the last time in fact. I don't know and I don't ask what he does when he goes away on business but I gather from what he says that he doesn't drink.
I have never asked him if he has "stopped" but the evidence rather suggests that and I have absolutely no control over his drinking and that's OK too.
However I think that my sobriety was a key part of his current action. Monkey see monkey do. He has also started going to the gym and sometimes we go together. We share a great deal more of our life doing stuff as a couple and none of that includes alcohol.
I still have boundary problems with friends and family but I am getting better at setting and sticking to them because I know I need to protect myself.
I think in a rather convoluted way (TPS I could do with a lesson here) I am trying to say put your own needs first. If your husband should follow great but you are your own priority .
Oz -
Message 37
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Interesting interview with Russel Brand on Front Row. I'm very fond of him and his work, and I did wonder at the time of the Sachs phone call scandal if, when he apologised publicly and resigned from his job, he was working his programme. It seems he was:
I agree with what he said about addictions in general. -
Message 38
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Hi Bash,
I interesting listening to him talking so fluently about addictions. I didn't like his first book at all; thought he came over as being completely self-obsessed and out of control and not seeming to be accountable for his actions, and yet now he says that @The Programme' means he has to accountable for his actions to be true to his self and/or his recovery programme.
It occurs to me that i may have disliked his book so much because he seemed so out of control? I, of course, being a superior being, was never out of control. Yeah right. maybe it scared me, or maybe I admired him for being so out of control and not caring whereas I needed (need) to be in control even when i was not.
There is sense in that sentence somewhere i'm sure. I know what i mean! -
Message 39
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Hey Nico, good to see you.
My mother gave me his book, she said she thought I'd find it interesting. At the time,I barely knew who he was, but trusted her...he's sort of her type in younger men. I wasn't sure about him when I started to investigate (still haven't read it) but his intelligence and humour proved irresistible and I saw him do stand up here and loved it.
When I found out he'd cleaned up his act, I was even more curious.
That's funny Nic, I too was never out of control. I love what you've said here about recognising this in yourself. I think that maybe one of the reasons that I loathe Courtney Love is because she is so out of control but doesn't seem to care.
Anyway well said. Hope you're doing ok. Bx -
Message 40
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Thank you to all posters for their wonderful insights into their struggles. Posts from TPS, Basia and OZ have helped me in my struggle with my son's problem as I now feel I can treat him with compassion rather than pity and love rather than smother.
The last nine months have been quite the most difficult I have experienced for some time and this is closely linked with the decline and acceleration of addiction in R.
I am hesitant to post this as my Irish superstitious roots are showing here but R has, this week, admitted to another person, outside the family and his GP that his drinking is out of control. The whys and wherefores are not mine to relate but suffice it to say that his GP has told him to attend an alcohol counselling service, has given him a sick-note for two weeks only with the proviso that he attends this counselling and also returns to her to report on his progress.
I have to accept that although I consider AA to be his best hope of recovery I know from the posts of those struggling with this problem that this is not the only route to success and I have evidence of that from others on this thread. I did mention the AA help-line to him and his reply was that they were not much help to him "last time". From that I gather that he was not told what he wanted to hear.
At least he is aware of the help available and I am greatly encouraged by the fact that he has opened up to the GP for whom he has a lot of respect.
Without my AlAnon programme and all the tools available to me I am sure that this year would be turning out in a very different fashion and the support I have had in RL from friends in the programme has been immense and I am truly grateful for it.
I must have hope that this may turn out to be a turning point for R although one day at a time. I am only too well aware that "this too shall pass" - the good as well as the bad.
I am certainly suffering myself at the moment as my tummy has reacted - I am sure it is just stress-related and I am being good to myself and enjoying the day.
Thanks to you all and I hope that your move has gone well, Fee.
Boots -
Message 41
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Boots :0)
-
Message 42
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Thank you (teary today)
Boots -
Message 43
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
No one ever said it's easy Boots and I think the way you manage to hang on in there is nothing short of amazing. Take special care of yourself today.
-
Message 44
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Boots,
So sorry you're feeling sad and upset today.
I know that I am newly doing the right thing, and have already slipped up once. But i just wanted you to know that it IS possible for R to wake up one morning and just know that he has to stop.
It sounds as though he is moving forward at the moment, i really really hope he continues and reclaims his life.
Nic -
Message 45
Posted by Tattyhead (U2777247) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Hang in there, Boots, you are doing brilliantly. Fingers crossed for R. No good my saying anything else - you know it all (that's not meant sarcastically!)
Best wishes, Tatty x -
Message 46
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
I have to say that my biggest problem at the moment is coping with the self-hatred i feel at putting my Mum through hell for all those years.
there seems to be some distance between us at the moment, and my guess is that she is pulling back and seeing how it goes. Could just be that she has her own mortality problems at the moment, or could be my imagination anyway, or that she is so pleased she is afraid to acknowledge it. More likely it is my own guilt making me feel the distance. my turn to cry at night/
My younger brother too, the one i let down time and again just by not being there for him said to me (when expresing happiness that i have started driving lessons) "I always loved you even when you were being a complete **" He pointed out that what he missed was emotional imput from me.
Anyway, when he said that i thought "How can he just say that..he is so not embarrased by saying that. Cool kid.
Nic -
Message 47
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Boots, I hope it does turn out to be a turning-point - and that you will soon feel better in yourself physically. Yes, the move is progressing smoothly - I'm half here and half there (or the other way round) at the moment - by this time next week I will be completely there (in person, anyway). Between now and then I know that I have at least one sort-of-surprise presentation. I don't really like the fuss but, as my daughter pointed out yesterday, I wouldn't really like it if they didn't feel like making a fuss.
Nic, you've probably read enough of what Boots has said in these threads to be able to put yourself a bit into the skin of a mother who may be trying to follow the Al Anon principle of detachment with love. I know from my perspective that it means trying to leave someone in their own space to make their own decisions and not to live my life through theirs in any way. And regret and self-hatred are a waste of time - I'm sure the best way to acknowledge the past and make amends for it to those closest to you is to go forward positively in the way that they would wish to see - not in a cloud of remorse and self-hatred.
Oz and Basia, interesting posts.
Fee -
Message 48
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Tatty and Westie (or is it Birdie?) Thank you both.
In particular Nic - "or that she is so pleased she is afraid to acknowledge it." How I relate to that. Thank you for your insight and reply to me. I have enough years in AlAnon to know that anything which R may have said and done over the years was not personal - it was the drink talking and taking over. I am sure that your Mum does know the same thing and I am very aware that guilt, particularly at the beginning of recovery, is a useless feeling.
I know because I have felt guilt at the way I handled things in the past but I have learned that the positive way to handle my guilt (and only my guilt from my perspective) is to not continue doing the same things which cause me to feel guilty. Just for now, just for today I am comfortable that I handled stuff in the past in the best way I could at the time with the tools I had at the time.
In the same way, R also did the same thing. The fact that his tools were bottle-related was bound to screw things up but it is all a learning curve and thank goodness, I am still learning.
Boots -
Message 49
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Fee - our posts crossed. Glad to know things are going well.
Boots -
Message 50
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 7th October 2010
Forgiving yourself takes practice, but it will come, especially if you're working a programme where you get to listen to others in the same position I find that it lays me low if I go back to that place and doesn't help me or anyone else.
Sorry sorry sorry is empty if it's not backed up by actions (I know you know this) and the best action I found is what is termed in AA as a living amend, staying sober, so cut yourself some slack on the horsehair. I mean that affectionately.
Indeed. Staying positive also pulls us back from a weird sort of egotism...hard to explain.
Boots, thank you for your moving posts. You teach so much in here.
Bx
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