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Alcohol concerns, December 2010
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Ellie May (U2222618) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Welcome to December’s alcohol concerns. This thread is for everyone – those in recovery or struggling to get there, those who are coping with other people’s alcohol issues, and those who may simply want to learn more.
This is also a place to share about other addiction issues – whether drugs, food, exercise, gambling, sex, relationships, shopping or anything else. Everyone is welcome to share about their experiences, good or bad, or simply as an outlet for their feelings. Don’t worry if what you have to say doesn’t follow on from any previous discussion. Newcomers are always very welcome too.
The word ‘alcoholic’ can be a problematic one and some of us do not use it, preferring to talk instead about ‘hazardous’ or ‘harmful’ drinking or becoming dependent on alcohol.
Past experience has shown that this thread works best when we keep to talking about our own collective experiences. Posters who do not have concerns about alcohol in their own lives but want to learn more about a problem which is much misunderstood are very welcome - we have a number of regulars who drop in from time to time - and it's always good to see them.
We have developed a custom of opening the new month with a round of introductions in which people say as much or a little as they feel like about why they post (or generally lurk) here and how things are going.
The following links are all sources of support. Some of us are members of 12-step programmes such as AA – the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking – or Al-Anon, and some have found recovery through other means. Some of us still drink in moderation and some of us are abstinent. Whatever works… (Some of us, too, are still looking for ways that work.)
NHS information
(AA world wide)
(AA UK)
(Al Anon UK)
(Al Anon worldwide)
(This is the US Alanon site which has a message board and a chat room – recommended by Tattyhead)
Finally, here is a link to last month’s thread:
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Message 2
Posted by Ellie May (U2222618) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
I found this while trawling back to find my last opening post in this thread, and it pretty much still applies:
>>My name is Ellie May and I’m an alcoholic. On 15 December I hope to celebrate seven [eight now, yay!] years’ sobriety. The last six months of my drinking was hideous. I was very much a functional drinker up to then – I was a single parent and also managed a very stressful and demanding job in an investment bank that meant I was away from home quite a lot. My children were being brought up by childminders and a succession of au pairs – and even when I was at home, I was drinking. My life had gradually shrunk down to simply working (not very effectively) and managing the domestic chaos (also not very effectively).
In early summer 2002 my toddler niece died shockingly and unexpectedly, which was the start of my spiral downwards. I truly can’t remember a whole lot about those last six months… I was signed off work in I think November, and in December my psychiatrist told me I needed to be in hospital. The day before that happened, my grandmother died and I just felt ready to give up – I accepted that I couldn’t do this any more. It was a huge relief although I simply could not imagine any kind of life without the prop of alcohol. It was as though someone had told me I was going to live on a different planet or in heaven. Three days after that psychiatrist’s appointment, I was in a treatment centre where I stayed for five weeks. I haven’t drunk since, with the help of AA (intermittently) and therapy (intensively) and good friends (constantly). <<
I also shared about the end of a long-standing relationship, which was quite painful for me to read again. But things are very different now – I was amazed to meet someone new very quickly, in April, and four months later we became engaged and are going to marry next summer. This is hardly earth shattering but it’s something I never expected, and could never have predicted. Part of my pattern was choosing difficult, clever, troubled commitment-phobes, so I would never have to deal with the ordinariness of a day-to-day relationship. It was always a crisis, a breaking up, a getting back together, a drama, a tragedy, a rollercoaster – in short, a pain in the arse. Things are very different now, I can hardly believe it. Which is not to say there aren’t difficulties, not least in combining two families with five children between us, with all our baggage and past experiences, plus ex-spouses and ex-partners and co-parents. And moving house, moving schools, possibly moving jobs too… It’ll be a challenge, to say the least.
I’ve posted before about my ongoing food issues, which I am still struggling with. I haven’t had any recurrence of my bulimia for some years but I find it hard not to restrict my food intake (so I’m bordering on underweight) and I realised very recently how distorted my self image is. I am taking part in a medical trial, and all the volunteers have to be weighed weekly. I was sitting next to a woman last week who I thought was probably about my weight, and I glanced down at her data sheet, where her weight had been recorded at 14.5kg more than mine. It was quite shocking, and reminds me that I have some way to go here…
I’m very grateful to this thread, particularly for putting both my sponsor and sponsee in my life, and others both online and offline. You are all helping to keep me sober, so thank you. -
Message 3
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
and four months later we became engaged and are going to marry next summer.Â
Just de-lurking to say, many congratulations, and how wonderful! (I'm a soppy romantic < grin >
.
And < naughtily > thinking of debates elsethread, will you/won't you change your name? < big grin > -
Message 4
Posted by doughy hood (U2352167) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Also de-lurking to say congrats Ellie May, both on your (v nearly) 8 years (go on, you'll make it - and many more) and your engagement.
I'm Doughy Hood, an alcoholic whose been sober for just over 4 years.
I have been lurking (not a lot), rather than posting, recently because of the abysmal new page layout, although someone has written a script that makes life a lot better when using firefox so I might come back more often.
Does anyone know if the MB will be open on Christmas day, as in recent years. I for one have found it a haven when the stresses of the day have got close to making me turn to the bottle.
Doughy. -
Message 5
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Congratulations Ellie May, on your 8 years sober and the engagement.
E., an on-an-off lurker and poster who has learnt a lot from these threads about the insidious nature of alcoholism, addiction and dependency. My stereotypical clichéd images of what an alcoholic can be have been blown out of the water by people's stories in here and I hope I am now more aware of possible imprudent behaviour in those around me, even if it isn't always easy in RL to stick one's oar in and comment on them.
Good luck, bon courage  to all on their road forward. -
Message 6
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
I'm just checking in to bookmark the thread. Will come back later.
Doughy, I saw Tayler say somewhere else that she hoped that we would be open on Christmas Day and that she was happy to help make it possible - and someone else (Borsetshire Blue, I think) said recently that Tayler had been seen to confirm it (although I'm not sure where). There certainly hasn't been any notice of a Christmas closure here which I noticed on the Ouch board.
I too can think of Christmases past when I've found this thread very helpful. It can be a very difficult time of year.
Fee -
Message 7
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Oh and I forgot to say thanks to Ellie May for opening the thread and congratulations on eight years.
Fee -
Message 8
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Just stopping in to bookmark until I get back to the house and my phonecharger.
Congratulations on 8 years and your engagement EM. Thanks for opening the thread, I hope to do it when I get back to a proper pooter.
Right just been to the first meeting for today, now back to the old folk. -
Message 9
Posted by FerrousFerret (U7246468) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Remembered this month.
Greetings, Ferret here, sometime poster (some months back) and current avid lurker. I think I rather euphemistically self-identified as a problem drinker last time I posted. Currently day-to-day sober but have lapsed (for want of a better word) at a couple of celebrations/get togethers over the past months. Probably a better self-description for the moment would be 'work in progress', unsure (perhaps read that as afraid) as to whether full time sobriety would be my most suitable modus operandi, but for the moment I'm happy to be mostly au naturel.
Congratulations to E-M on the impending nuptuals, and if I may be forgiven the purple prose thanks also to all those who post here. Some of the posts have been scarily prescient to my current pre-occupations and some of you have caused several sets of scales to fall from my eyes. Will endevour to lurk slightly less and share slightly more. -
Message 10
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Just having a quick call in - delighted to hear of EM's news.
I'm not a lurker as such, if I pop in for a read I usually post too.
A bit of an update on OH as it's now 2 weeks since the police episode. It seems my statement of feeling I'd reached some kind of crossroad has established a kind of boundary.
Many years ago OH and I argued when he insisted on driving the car when he was WAY over the limit. I refused to get in the car and walked home. He hasn't driven in such a state since - he rarely drives these days anyway.
A friend of his died last week. I noticed, because I was at home on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, that he drank at the same level. Monday, when I was at work and he had time to reflect, he got through 3/4 of a bottle of whisky instead of his usual 1/2 bottle.
Best wishes to all those who are battling - I wish you well. -
Message 11
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
I lurk her - I have some friends who either were or still are alcoholics, it's always good to be able to try to learn more and I like the support, humour and searing honesty on this thread.
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Message 12
Posted by Zzumbug (U14655158) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Hi, I'm an alcoholic but I'm not doing badly at keeping myself sober these days. I'm particularly pleased that I've stayed sober since I lost my job at the beginning of this year. I think it stiffened my resolve on the basis that if I started to drink again I would end up loosing more than just my job.
I find this MB, and this thread in particular, rather comforting at times. I use it very differently from how I used it when I posted from work but there was a big gap during the summer and early autumn, before I was able to get back online. I freely admit that I'm very lonely these days, although I do have one or two interests and those, along with coming here, have kept me off the booze.
Taylor definately posted recently to say that ML will be open over Christmas but I have not been able to find her post. However folks I think that is great news and will be valued by many of us who will spend the time alone. -
Message 13
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Mabel here - mostly lurk. Come to this thread from the deceased alcoholic family member with long term mental health problems angle (plus their OH whose problem drinking surfaces occasionally)
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Message 14
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Hello cheshire - do you mean you've established a boundary for you or for him?
Hello Ferret too - I do remember you posting a while back and it's good to see you back - I hope your work in progress continues to make good progress - and do keep posting - new posters prevent the thread from settling into a pair of metaphorical carpet slippers.
mfj, if you are lurking, I hope that you are getting your life back together.
I'm afraid I'm going to be idle by way of introduction this month and post a repeat of something I posted a couple of months ago to explain why I started posting here:
> I started posting in these threads because I had a husband who was what might be described as a functioning alcoholic (his drinking was a problem for him and for his close family but few others either socially or at work realised it). He got sober just over three years ago (and some of the ideas I acquired here and passed on to him undoubtedly helped with that) and then left some months later - we had grown apart during the drinking years and he had no appetite to close the gap - so I don't live with an alcoholic of any sort any more - but I find that Al Anon and this thread help me deal with the consequences of the past. The past also, I have recently discovered, includes an alcoholic great-grandmother and that discovery together with what I now know about the likely consequences of growing up in an alcoholic environment explains a lot of family patterns and a lot of myself to me.<
I went on to say that >At the moment I'm feeling an odd combination of adventure as over the next couple of weeks I move into new city, new home and new job - and sadness - I'm concentrating hard on the unwanted opportunity approach at the moment.<
It has been a good move but I do still have moments of sadness and rootlessness overtaking me (I don't at the moment really feel that I have somewhere that I naturally refer to as home) - I think that's why I'm feeling so tired (that and a couple of months of adjusting to the unfamiliar and the cold and the dark).
I sometimes think people must wonder why I continue to post here - partly it's that there a lot of people posting here whom I've come to view as friends (even those I've never met) - partly it's that the ideas which help in coping with the immediate fall-out of having had an alcoholic in my life are useful in lots of other contexts - and partly it's because of what Ferret said about things posted here helping those who lurk - so there are some things which I always feel like repeating each month for the benefit of any passing lurkers so here they are again (anyone who has been here a while should scroll to the next post).
I think there are five things which I always feel that I most want to pass on at the start of each month First, problem drinking/alcoholism does not require someone to fit the park bench stereotype - it did not occur to me for many years to identify my husband's problem because he did not fit my stereo-type of someone who drank in the morning etc etc - if alcohol use is a problem, it's a problem however it manifests itself (although it took me quite a long time to correlate my husband's moods and behaviour with drinking).
Second, that no-one else causes someone to drink problematically, that no-one else can control someone's drinking or "cure" them unless they want it for themselves. That's the 3 Cs of Al Anon - you didn't cause it (whatever the drinker might like to say, it's their choice to drink), you cannot control it and you cannot cure it (the drinker will only sort it out if they really really want to).
Third, that AA and Al Anon are not religious groups (although depending on the membership of any particular group you might need to work hard at translating the notion of a higher power into the collective wisdom of the group).
Fourth, that in discussions here and at Al Anon/AA the thing is to look for the similarities rather than the differences - to take what you like - and leave the rest.
Finally, that most things can be solved by an application of the ideas in the serenity prayer - the ability to accept the things we can do nothing about, the courage to change the things we can and (the difficult bit) the wisdom to know the difference.
Have a good December everyone.
Fee -
Message 15
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
What a terribly long post - I didn't really look at it properly until after I'd posted.
Still, no-one has to read it.
Peppertree, I'm sorry to hear that you feel lonely - but I know what you mean about these boards meaning that it's never necessary to feel completely cut off from human company - I know they have helped me with moving to somewhere where I knew nobody. Somehow they are also less effort when I'm feeling tired than writing emails to people. And I've never been a phone person.
Fee -
Message 16
Posted by Ellie May (U2222618) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Thank you for all your good wishes, both on my eight years (I can hardly believe that) and the engagement (or that). It's a weird thought that I have been around these boards so long that I used to post pissed. Eurghhhh.
Red, the jury's out on the name change - I did post on that thread! I don't want to rhyme but I quite fancy being properly double barrelled (and not just by combining names). -
Message 17
Posted by Candle_in_the_dark (U14708286) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Hello all
I found this thread only two days ago and feel sure i will be a regular lurker. Alcoholics i have known and 'loved' (?) are my grandfather, my father, a violent ex-partner and my foster-daughter's mother (who was a former friend and drinking buddy). As for me - did i have a drink problem? Well, who knows - all i know is that i used to drink too much too often. I hid my drinking from my two children and i never wanted them touched by my drinkng. This may sound like 'denial' - well if it is, that's ok; it's working for me - i don't want to dwell on the past, i'd rather look to the future. I haven't had a drink for 9 years now and i have no desire to have the stuff back in my life - it takes more than it ever gives (although bountiful it can appear at times, it comes at such a heavy price).
My respect, admiration and heart-felt best wishes go to those who are battling with a drink problem - be that their own or a loved one's. -
Message 18
Posted by TeaLady (U9077092) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Hi everyone. Thanks Ellie May for opening up December. Huge congrats on 8 years sobriety and thank you for inspiring me and helping me so much as my sponsor.
I may come back tomorrow and do a 'proper' intro bit but tonightI have just finished some planning for one of my jobs and I am very tired.
I really want to say some thank-yous though, before I go to bed.
Thank you everyone on this thread - it has been my lifeline to a better, sober way of living. Thanks to all those who encouraged me to get help and who are part of my support network in RL as well as on here. And thanks very much to Fee for coffee and her company last night. It was lovely to meet you and I hope to see you again soon. As I drove home last night, I got a message on my phone from another lovely poster from this thread and I felt very lucky to have the opportunity to 'meet' so many great people on here. Night all.
TL x -
Message 19
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Thanks EM, great OP. Congrats on your time and your impending time. Ha.
I do love these threads.
Keeping it brief because I'm knackered.
Basia, over 9 years sober thanks to AA and a desire to stop drinking.
Indeed. -
Message 20
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Ellie May - thank you for opening up and congratulations on your engagement and your eight years sober.
I am Boots and the daughter, ex-wife and mother of men with alcohol problems and the one that brought me to AlAnon several years ago is my only child who has been drinking both steadily and bingeing for the last 15 years.
It is such a waste of his intellect and personality but thanks to AnAnon I know that there is nothing that I can alter about him - I can only work on myself. Awareness, acceptance and action (or no action at all) go hand-in-hand with the three cs which Fee mentioned (thank you Fee for the link to this month's thread btw) and I am slowly learning to keep my life as the focus of my attention and not my son.
At a recent meeting a mum confessed that she is addicted to her daughter even though she has been sober for over four years and that really brought home to me how easy I have found it to live my life vicariously through my son but that has now stopped and he must get on with his own life.
Boots -
Message 21
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
> to live my life vicariously through my son but that has now stopped and he must get on with his own life<
Thanks for that reminder Boots. I'm detached quite nicely at the moment from worrying about what my son is up to in Australia - but am in danger of giving way to pointless worry about my daughter who has been having a difficult time getting to work from the outer fringes of south west London in the snow and is stressed about various other things as well. I cannot live their lives for them.
Fee -
Message 22
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
I mostly lurk on this thread, but over the years have found it invaluable as it has armed me with knowledge and so self confidence whilst dealing with our delightful but spirited youngest daughter who is fast approaching 30!
Earlier this year she decided to move on to a new stage in her life and is training to be a teacher. She rang us at 10.30 last Saturday morning to say she was sitting marking school work. We nearly fell off our perches as previously I would never have dreamt of ringing her before midday on a Saturday as I would assume she was dead to the world recovering from Friday night. She has had to reign back her social life and after a bit of a mental struggle (do I really want to become the sort of person I'm fast becoming!!) seems to have settled into the life of a young woman taking on a very demanding career choice.
At one time I thought she was never going to be able to make these kind of adjustments to her life, and I feel this thread has played its part in helping me help her.
So thankyou .....................
Birdy :0) -
Message 23
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Well I declare Westie, I do believe you're using spirited as if it were a bad thing..unless you meant it as a euphemism or meant to put 'and' instead of 'but'...hahahaha, just janking your chain Westie.
Bash, spirited. -
Message 24
Posted by The Giddy Kipper (U10918464) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Just b'arking
Giddy Kipper -spirited away -
Message 25
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Ha! Basia yanking my chain .... I'm trying to think of a joke to do with being suitably flushed, but can't. I love her spirit but when she lives at home for more than 48 hours (between moves/jobs) we both have to circle around each other very carefully and respect each other.
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Message 26
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
>Just b'arking<
When I saw that earlier I thought that apostrophe was a mark on my screen and wondered if you were casting doubts on your sanity. Kipper - revisiting the thread, I see what you mean. I think it's probably as well that it's Friday.
Fee -
Message 27
Posted by Cheshire Cat (U14533219) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Just checking in -
Peppertree - I can understand the feeling of loneliness, I've often felt it over the years.
OH doesn't do going out at bank holidays, crowded places, traffic cues, the hassle of flying, going to the cinema, shopping, eating out and ironically, going to a pub. Consequently if I want to engage with the rest of the world I have to go it alone - or find a companion. Having a dog is one of them - I can go out and about for a walk with her at my side. My grandsons have provided me, in the past, with additional company but they are now in their teens and it is not cool to hang around with Nan.
As I work full time I have plenty of colleagues but little time to make and see friends.
However I have adjusted over the years - I'm okay with it - it's alright to be alone and having found the MB I know I can express myself in all sorts of ways, short of dancing.
Fee- OH is recognising I have laid down the equivalent of an ultimatum of 'behave or I'm off'. It hasn't altered his drinking but the rants are less, are quieter and not directed at me.
Best wishes to all that are battling.
Chesh -
Message 28
Posted by TeaLady (U9077092) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
I read it as 'just barking' too - and thought 'Yeah, me too'.
TL x -
Message 29
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Oh for a meeting right now, and waddya know, I'm on my way to one.I could really use an AA mtg but have been planning on my Friday night DA one all week, so am not backing out now. A lot of people reading this will know what I'm talking about when I say I just feel like the TLC of my eccentic, loving home group in the city.
Just learned that I am being professionally undermined by someone and I can't do a single thing about it. And I learned by over-hearing something because the person didn't realise I was there and at the moment I'm feeling a bit sick.
I'm smart enough in my recovery to not act on it right now, and call my sponsor instead and talk to people in my DA meeting. The little I can do I've done,that is talk to another colleague who knows it's going on and who is batting for me. I just let her know I know what's going on.
I am going to have a nice weekend working at the vets tomorrow and having Sunday and Monday off to take care of myself. Ah, but it hurts. -
Message 30
Posted by Zzumbug (U14655158) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
Just learned that I am being professionally undermined by someone and I can't do a single thing about it.Â
From my own experience of professional life I know something about this type of situation. I wish that I had had your wisdom not to react unthinkingly*. I also wish for a good outcome for you.
*This doesn't look like good English to me. -
Message 31
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
How unpleasant, Bash. But it sounds as though you are doing what you can and that rising above the manipulative behaviour of someone who presumably feels insecure in their own position for good reason is the most serene response. I hope the meeting helped.
Cheshirecat, thanks for clarifying - I hope the greater peace continues.
>As I work full time I have plenty of colleagues but little time to make and see friends. However I have adjusted over the years - I'm okay with it - it's alright to be alone <
That resonates with me.
Fee -
Message 32
Posted by yulzerzo (U10301639) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
Hi Peppertree
Congratulations on keeping your sobriety while losing your job. I was in that situation earlier this year also and managed to stay sober as well. It's funny, once I stopped drinking I thought everything would sort itself out and life would be plain sailing - how wrong could I be. I've had a catalogue of woes over the past year which would have given me many excuses to drink in the past. However, this time with the help of my AA meetings and the friends I have made there, this has not happened and I feel an immense gratitude for that.
Getting to meetings at the mo is very difficult. In fact, getting anywhere is very difficult at present and I believe we've more snow to come. I've decided just to have a 'me' morning until various members of the family arrive (hopefully) this afternoon. Off to make a coffee and get warm.
Yulzerzo -
Message 33
Posted by Ellie May (U2222618) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
It’s funny, I’ve always found it easier to not drink when things are really awful than when they’re going well. I was made redundant 15 months into sobriety, in the middle of a rather horrible and debilitating illness that had meant several emergency admissions to hospital, surgery, blood transfusions etc. It was grim, but all I could think was thank god I’m not drinking through this, how much worse it would be…
It’s when I’m really happy, everything’s going swimmingly, the sun is shining, la la la, that sometimes that rogue thought pops in that it would be lovely to have a glass or two of crisp white wine. Just one or two, of course, not to get drunk, just a little taste…
Last night I dreamt I was smoking, a variation on my drinking dream, which was disconcerting. It was good to wake up. It’s been five and a half years since I stopped smoking (for the second time). I don’t want to go through that again.
Sorry you’re feeling lonely, Peppertree, I’m glad you’re posting here again. -
Message 34
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
La Bez here - a moniker that came from fellow posters in here.
I am an alcoholic and got myself kicked off ML a year ago for posting unwisely too often when drunk. I hit my bottom in October last year, forced to leave the family home (still supported by my long suffering but fantastic OH) in the late summer I became increasingly depressed and pretty much stopped eating. As I didn't stop drinking by October I was a mess physically as well as mentally. I had come to this thread after lurking a couple of years or so earlier during my first attempt to get sober through AA and had always found it a great source of comfort, support and loving humor. Most important for me personally it brought me into contact with Basia. Like her I am a Brit living in the US and when I first reached out for help it was to her via Peets. She has been a tower of support since.
Back to last year. By the end of October I found myself in hospital near death - temp of 205f pulse near 200 and a BP where the top number was way lower than where the bottom should have been. Having been to a 28 day program earlier on the year and found it no help at all I knew I needed long term. I was pointed in the direction of the Lodge (not it's full name, not sure if I can post that) here in New Jersey so only an hour and a half from home. It's short term program is 90 days and that is only for first timers the rest of us are a minimum of 6 months and mostly nearer 12 - I was there 10. Of course AA doesn't endorse etc any institutions but this would be it's Oxbridge/Harvard! It is full on 12 steps with a bit of CBT thrown in, all faculty are members of AA or NA with the exception of the family counselor who, fittingly, is Al-Anon. Pretty much every other person employed there is in recovery or has someone in their close family who is an alcoholic/addict. It's really tough in it's approach but I can't sing it's praises highly enough as I owe it my life.
Currently I am living in their woman's transitional living house - Basia will attest that it's not your average halfway house - while I get used to a sober life and transition back into my family. That should hopefully be early in the new year. I am doing voluntary work to get used to a working environment and driving myself around while fully supported at the house and an average of 2 AA meetings a day living with 13 other women aged 18 to late 40's (an exercise in patience and tolerance and practicing the 1st 3 steps all by itself).
Taylor has allowed me back into ML. It was Thanksgiving here last week and this year I had much to be grateful for - being alive was the main one. The Lodge and my fantastic, supportive husband being another two. Our counselor is amazed by him and says she hasn't had another spouse be so willing to involve himself so fully - the other women love him and tease me mercilessly. And that is enough for now -
Message 35
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
Good post La Bez. Sometime if you feel like it it would be interesting to hear what it is that you think has worked to help you make the changes which you clearly feel have happened - what do you mean, for example, by >It's really tough in it's approach<?
>I am doing voluntary work to get used to a working environment and driving myself around<
Are you going to be able to continue with similar activity which sounds as though it is making some use of your professional skills when you get home?
Fee -
Message 36
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
I think that "the tincture of time", as the founder of the Lodge called it, was the most important thing Fee. It was really brought home to us that the drinking/using is just a symptom and the months there and working the first 7 steps allowed me to really focus on myself with minimal distraction. Tough means very strict rules including zero tolerance for fraternization, we weren't even supposed to look at the men let alone speak to them and vice versa. This wasn't an issue for me but for some women it was huge especially for those whose addiction had led to them using themselves and their losing their self respect by what they had to do to survive - some of them heartbreakingly young. Outside contact was limited to immediate family in both visits and mail - one older woman wasn't even allowed to write or have visits from her partner of 8 years because they didn't live in the same apartment (though the same building) - until she decided to leave AMA after 5 months for financial reasons when he suddenly became vital enough to be called in to try to persuade her to stay. Again especially important for the younger women who really needed "people, places and things" to be separated from. Those younger women who come to the house where I am from the Lodge are expected to stay in this area for a year after leaving the house. Others are sent to halfway houses halfway across the country from family and friends to break co-depedency issues. The men who don't have spouses and responsibilities to return to are sent to Minnesota, Maine or California.
One of the biggest factors for those students who leave with their blessing is the Lodge itself. It is there for me for the rest of my life and I can return whenever I need to - relapse, tough situations, post medical proceedires where pain meds need to be handled or just at the other end of a phone 24/7.
It has made me appreciate that I can't do this alone or my way and that surrender really is key. That I am powerless over people or happenings and I can't control them only my reactions to them. That I am powerless over my addiction, that once I take that 1st drink I am powerless over what the outcome will be because I don't know when I will stop or what I will do. I now really appreciate that just for today I can do this, tomorrow I could take that first drink but for today I have the choice not to.
But it is time that was the big factor, time to learn about myself and why I am the way I am and to learn to like myself -
Message 37
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
Wow, La Bez.
Just popped in to change my name to something more festive. Have been lurking but haven't felt like posting for some reason (nothing big, am still ok and sober and all that).
Anyway, great post La Bez, glad i popped in to day now. -
Message 38
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
>time to learn about myself and why I am the way I am and to learn to like myself<
That makes a lot of sense - and is probably something that most people would agree about - even those who might have reservations about precise methods.
Just out of interest, how would the segregation thing work for someone who is gay?
Fee -
Message 39
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
Hi nic, nice to see you - I'd noticed you hadn't been around much since your slight run-in with the mods.
>am still ok and sober and all that<
That's good.
Fee -
Message 40
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Saturday, 4th December 2010
Hi nic
Fee - zero tolerance for fraternization applies across the board and any actual physical sexual contact results in being thrown out whether hetero or homosexual in nature. -
Message 41
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
No Oz overnight?
Just bumping really as we are dropping down
Don't know what I will do at home Fee but definitely out of the house. I hope to find some voluntary work and furthering my education is going to be a big part of it. I've discovered that Columbia university does a Liberal Arts Masters program which looks very inviting. I was looking at distance learning programs from various places but as I need a reason to get out I am now switching my focus to attending the colleges properly maybe starting on a part time basis, columbia would definitely be doable as NYC is on the doorstep and they offer the program part time.
Anyway that will come clear in time if I am supposed to do it. Back to the Lodge. Other foibles are that the students are expected to dress for dinner and the dress code is strict on lengths of skirt, cleavage, strap widths etc - the guys in suits/ties. On Sundays dressing up is extended to lunch and the afternoon as visitors are on property. It's all designed to boost self esteem. Of course non recovery related books are banned but you are allowed 1 at Christmas of any sort which must be turned in at the end of January. Naturally there was a sophisticated underground borrowing system to ensure that all who wanted to read every book - not to mention much loading beforehand to make sure that none were duplicated and all books in sought after trilogies were received by someone. TV is limited to an hour and a half on weeknights though from lunch at weekends and we did get papers. No music except in the gym. We are not supposed to connect with each other for a year after leaving unless in the same halfway housenand contact with anyone who leaves AMA is "strongly discouraged" - one woman was firmly told that I would not be making calls to or receiving from her while I am at the house when she attempted to call me. And none of us currently at the house is allowed to be in touch with our friend E - we have had news by the way and she is ok, sober and being helped by women in her local AA. Her husband had taken her phone as well as her car and credit cards but when she got her phone back she contacted another girl who graduated from the house who was able to tell us the news. -
Message 42
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
>I've discovered that Columbia university does a Liberal Arts Masters program which looks very inviting. I was looking at distance learning programs from various places but as I need a reason to get out I am now switching my focus to attending the colleges properly maybe starting on a part time basis, columbia would definitely be doable as NYC is on the doorstep and they offer the program part time.<
Ooh, yes - that sounds like a really good idea.
> It's all designed to boost self esteem<
I can see that.
>we have had news by the way and she is ok, sober and being helped by women in her local AA<
That's good.
Thanks for answering my question about the gender segregation thing, by the way - it was more the apparently slightly stereo-typical thinking behind the gender segregation that caught my interest than anything to do with physical contact (which I can quite see would be a no-no) because the family support group which I attended at my husband's treatment centre included quite a few gay partners of people who had been in the treatment centre at the same time. Most of the time everyone was mixed in together during the residential stay, I think, although I think my memory is that the subsequent weekly support group sessions for patients during the subseqeunt year were segregated by gender. The family support groups were a real mix of genders, ages, relationships - but they did try to split members of the same family between the two groups which ran.
Fee -
Message 43
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
We were in the same room for lectures and meals but on opposite sides of the room. Groups were all segregated by gender. Naturally we knew their names eventually as we took it on turns to read from Daily Reflections before breakfast and How it Works before lectures, not to mention sharing. On arrival they were allocated nicknames by so
E of the more creative women - such as unsub or serial killer ...... Not that any of them were worth looking at even had I been available. I'm convinced that the Lodge vets their male residents by photo prior to admission. Ok we're all in a bad way when we arrive but as health improves so do looks and there have to be some good looking addicts and alchies out there somewhere - all I know is none of them were in the male community at the lodge. Some of the women conversely were stunning. -
Message 44
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
Ah La Bez, reading your post leaves me shuddering...social control social control social control.
My sister attended what sounds like a similar rehab place in Holland, many many years ago now. I watched her turn from a fiesty individual to someone I didn't recognise. She wore ridiculous "Christian" skirts and played guitar and sang in the streets with the rest of them. When she had a horrendous abcess which required the cutting of her jawline open...she wasn't allowed painkillers, and i was visiting then and saw her acute pain.
To say i hated this place would be putting it mildly. I wanted my sister out of there, away from these self serving monsters.
Ho hum. Guess what? It worked. She found friendship and support there that enabled her to 'break the self-destruct habit' as she called it. She left there with a new sense of self, and with family ties ties she had tried so hard to break - strengthened immeasurable.
She has never looked back. Recently we went back to her old haunts in Amsterdam and she showed me places and finally filled in the gaps of thiose missing years that led to her being in the rehab. I cried actually, but i also finally understood that perhaps what had been missing most in her life was someone (people in her case at the rehab) who cared enough about her recovery to to strip away everything she had and build from scratch.
Just really wanted to write this because it shakes me sometimes that i still do have a knee jerk reaction to something that somehow seems so feudal, so controlling. I think too, thank god i wasn't where my sister was at. I am simply too self-centred to allow for feelings of annihilation to turn to acceptance of help in the way she did, the way you have jane.
I guess what i mean is that it takes courage and a particular strength of personality to complete such a programme.
Your plans for the future sound wonderful. I wish you well, and hope that next year will be everything you hope it can be for yourself and your family.
Right. Back to staying away from even lurking on here. It really is untenable for me and N to both use this thread. I miss it though, sometimes.
Love to all,
kris -
Message 45
Posted by wiggypig (U5211078) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
Hi La Bez. Strikes me it's a good job there's zero tolerance on fratinization if the men are so dire and the women so stunning.
wiggy -
Message 46
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
Hi wiggy, to the mystification of many of us it didn't seem to bother some of them. Of course especially among the younger members of the community zero tolerance made the other side of the room that much more appealing. Add to that a desire on the part of some to get one over on the staff....
-
Message 47
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
kris, in case you are still lurking (it's not untenable for the rest of us, btw, but you and nic must sort it out for yourselves of course), you have articulated some of what was in my mind as well but couldn't think how to say so thanks.
Fee -
Message 48
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
I think you are right Kris, stripping everything away and forcing us to look at ourselves and build ourselves from scratch was at the heart of the program. And exasperation at some of the petty ruleswas part of the glue that took a bunch of last chance addicts and turned us into a supportive community. We are assured that every rule howeverdaft itseems is in place because in the past some student found a creative way of making it necessary. Also as I said in an earlier post some of the women were in situations where that literally meant everything, including for someof the younger reside ts breaking deep co-dependency with parents. Some of us had supportive homes to return to. Plus they say that mentally and emotionally you are arrested at the time you start using seriously, for many students that was as young as 12 or 13. Given that many were still under 21 that was a lot of lively youth essentially stuck in early adolescence and their behaviours reflected that a lot of the time, a lot of that not in anyway good. Sometimes it was fun to be around but all too often it was disruptive sometimes extremely so. No matter what their family background (and mostly that was in no way deprived) many of them could only be described as feral. No boundaries, badly behaved and sadly way too street smart. Having said that watching many of them mature into thoughtful you g women was a joy
-
Message 49
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
>simply too self-centred<
Still thinking about it, I wonder if another way of looking at it would be to say too much sense of self-worth to get to the point of self-destruction in the first place? Perhaps not a discussion which really belongs here, though.
If you are still lurking, though, I would like to know what a "Christian" skirt looks like - just re-reading your message and hadn't noticed that the first time round.
Fee -
Message 50
Posted by Kris massblues (U14058894) on Sunday, 5th December 2010
Ah Fee..The Christian skirt (txt from nic saying "What does a christian skirt look like?"
You know..sort of calf length, wide, maybe pleated even. And with big pockets, two of them?
Ha ha sorry, this is just how i envisaged Christian skirts and lo and behold that was what my sister was wearing. All crazy and nonesensical btw; my 3 lovely Christian aunts are the sharpest dressers i have ever known.
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