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Alcohol concerns, January 2011
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Saturday, 1st January 2011
Welcome to December’s alcohol concerns. This thread is for everyone – those in recovery or struggling to get there, those who are coping with other people’s alcohol issues, and those who may simply want to learn more.
This is also a place to share about other addiction issues – whether drugs, food, exercise, gambling, sex, relationships, shopping or anything else. Everyone is welcome to share about their experiences, good or bad, or simply as an outlet for their feelings. Don’t worry if what you have to say doesn’t follow on from any previous discussion. Newcomers are always very welcome too.
The word ‘alcoholic’ can be a problematic one and some of us do not use it, preferring to talk instead about ‘hazardous’ or ‘harmful’ drinking or becoming dependent on alcohol.
Past experience has shown that this thread works best when we keep to talking about our own collective experiences. Posters who do not have concerns about alcohol in their own lives but want to learn more about a problem which is much misunderstood are very welcome - we have a number of regulars who drop in from time to time - and it's always good to see them.
We have developed a custom of opening the new month with a round of introductions in which people say as much or a little as they feel like about why they post (or generally lurk) here and how things are going.
Ok, i borrowed the above from Ellie May's Dec opening, and the links..well, i think there are so many now they deserve a post of their own.
I will return asap to tell my story, much as it is or isn't, from feeling - this time last year - that i would give up drink and drugs soon, through to the process of finally realising that 'responsibility' and not some sudden life-changing epiphanal moment was the key to my sobriety.
Before i go (to return in a short while), I was looking back through the threads an hour ago and found something that I thought summed up the essence of this thread well. If there are any lurkers who might be wondering about posting, and afraid that it might mean a commitment of sorts, then perhaps this next paragraph (written by Oz) might help:
(After writing about an experience...)
"Just the process of writing that down is good. Refreshing if you like.
Like saying it out loud to make it real.
Like sharing in AA.
Like telling a friend.
If you admit it to another it loses its terror.
If you have no-one to talk to then sitting with a piece of paper or a computer screen is just as valuable."
Back in a bit, If anyone would like to add the links I would be grateful?
Nic -
Message 2
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Saturday, 1st January 2011
Thanks nic - I happen to have the links saved in a word file so very easy to post them here:
NHS information
(AA world wide)
(AA UK)
(Al Anon UK)
(Al Anon worldwide)
(This is the US Alanon site which has a message board and a chat room – recommended by Tattyhead)
Fee -
Message 3
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Thank you Nic
Thank you too Fee for posting the links.
So it is the first thread of 2011.
I am Oz.
Alcoholic, problematic drinker (of the past) and staying on the bright side of recovery with the help of AA, my sponsor and many who post here.
I feel huge gratitude towards this thread as it was really instrumental in my seeking help. It showed me that there is no weakness in admitting that you need help and that it is OK to ask for it. It took a while but it sunk in and so I shall be two years sober in May.
Reading some of the other threads on the MB's recently has told me that many have found 2010 a tough year. Well I have had my moments but overall it was very kind to me and saw me achieve things that I wouldn't have even contemplated while I was drinking.
However the one of the special things that I love about my sobriety is that each and every morning a wake up without the dread of a hangover and the guilt and remorse of yet another lost evening. I don't fall into bed a wish to never wake up anymore. The truth is that had I not sought help I probably wouldn't be here now.
So my gratitude is summed up by the simple fact that I am alive.
That is a bloody good start to any morning.
Oz -
Message 4
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Hi Oz - just finishing the links by adding one to last month's thread - which is here . I'll post something on this one tomorrow before I set off back to my new environment - I can't quite yet call it home and yet this one doesn't really feel like home either. Hopefully by the end of this year I will have one place in which I live and which feels like home.
Fee -
Message 5
Posted by KD NYC (U14736826) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Happy New Year from New York City- it's nice to feel free to talk about all this and not have to "hide" anything. Thanks for having me!
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Message 6
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Hey KD, welcome..
I have the concentration of a dead gnat writing my opening, but will forge on now.
(Big smile) -
Message 7
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
(Big Smile)
Me too -
Message 8
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
YES!!!!
(Another big grin)
KD, welcome. Just as I was reading your post, the Stones' sang "She's a Rainbow" and somehow it was fitting.
Nic, thanks for opening up, and putting another huge grin on my face. I love reading about your recovery, it makes me happy. Well, that goes for everyone here, but I have to say you seem to relish yours and it's wonderful to read.
Basia, recovering alchy through AA for 9 years.
Talked to my sponsor today and she had a shet Christmas being stuck in various towns and airports trying to get a flight back to NYC, with a husband with a serious heart condition on her hands getting weaker and weaker until she managed to get him back and into ER to be told he has pneumonia. Then she had to attend the funeral of a schoolfriend who died of alcohol related causes and so off she trots straight into a meeting afterwards. Using the programme can be very simple can't it?
Off to catch up on the end of the last thread, there was so much good stuff in there.
Love to all, and wishing you all a happy and healthy new year, with good sobriety and/or working tools.
Bx -
Message 9
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Ok, My name is Nico and i am an alcoholic. God I really hate writing that, even now. It still scares me. I also had a drug problem, possibly on it's way to becoming more pernicious, in the short term, than alcohol.
I started drinking when i was just 16. With a vengance. straight off a bottle of vodka a day, and drugs aplenty too. Why? I don't know. At the end of the day all that counts was that I drank because i enjoyed it.
I remember around this early time drinking a bottle of vodka and popping some pills, speed i guess, and 'losing it' and running screaming around the local car park. Scaring my mates to death. The experience had been so profoundly disturbing, yet it didn't stop me using again.
I remember too getting badly beaten up by a gang who jumped me. but i was stoned and so drunk it was like a dream. I drank some more and ended up falling down inbetween the doors of the town centre M&S, and two elderly women stepping over me and saying "Oh but he is just a boy, what a state to be in".
And so i kept the drinking a secret, but only because no-one came in my bedroom. One day my mother walked in and saw the floor to ceiling pyramid i had made with taped together vodka bottles. I was just 17 and saw, for the first of many times, the fear in her eyes..and it annoyed me.
For the first time i began to hear about the long and painful history of alcohol and drug addiction in my nuclear family. And for the first time it began to be acknowledged by my muclear family that Nico was "one of us" . Actually, what i thought was a passive acceptance of this i now realise was an empathy, and a quiet but solid offering of a guiding hand should i need one.
So 2010, jan 1st, saw me making plans for a 6 month trip to Peru with my much loved g/f. I was still drinking, still doing drugs. But it was only a problem in other people's eyes, not least my g/f. But it was 'sorted'; working building schools in a remote part of Peru, no alcohol nor drugs to be found there.
My mother was undergoing chemo (again) and so the focus was off me, so i felt. I had long since cut off emotionally from anything liable to hurt me. I was good to go, was confident, looking forward to the future.
So, the question I asked toward the end of the last thread comes to mind. Why did i end up becoming sober during the worse year of my whole life?
There is no easy answer to that. By Jan 2010 i had decided that i would give up alcohol and drugs. So the seed was already sown in a nebulous "one day" kind of way. And then something happened...that scared me, terrified me actually. But i was doing my last bit of alcohol and drugs before Peru so i watched others deal with it. I can't have been that mercenary, i can't have not felt anything. I knew that if the worse happened i was dead too. And that comforted me as i drank and took my first rock.
Then we went to peru and i loved it, one whole week of no drink or drugs, just doing something i had dreamed off. But then another medical crisis and we had to return..If i look back now i can honestly say this was when my drinking and drug taking escalated. Can i honestly say i would have been a recovering alcoholic and druggie had i stayed in Peru? natch. Hand on heart I had barely even acknowledged i had a problem. Recovery starts with admittance to oneself that you are powerless over alcohol...
Shortly after coming home i came on here for the first time. I found that first post and read it a couple of hours ago. oh/my/god. I simply couldn't read anymore. I was saying "Here i am, fix me". I found this response from Bash at one point:
"I didn't have time to reply earlier, but i was going to say that all the philosphising in the world, which i also used to do, isn't going to get you sober, if that's what you want to do..."
And i felt that no-one understood, that i was just talking things through. Why don't you listen? Where is your empathy? I'm doing the best i can, why can't you see that? I'm trying...So there was support on here and by email, and from several people in RL too but also home-truths aplenty. And bit by bit, drip by drip, came the realisation that that i was trying to understand myself and a series of very frightening circumstances, but all the philosphising in the world was not going to get me sober, if that's what i wanted to do.
I wasn't trying at all, i was waiting for a miracle...
Other things too..my g/f left me, for good. And it hurt like hell and i felt acute emotional pain and a sense of self-loathing that i had driven someone who had loved me away. So i talked to the one person i knew who would have empathy.. And suddenly I acknowledged that this access to albeit painful emotions was more powerful a need at that time than drink could ever be.
I was also being kept accountable for my behaviour. This was new to me, i wasn't used to upsetting anyone with my drinking, and the one person i did upset was in a no-win situation. The 3 C's must be so damned hard to take in and truly become meaningful? And all the time, like many alkies in the grip of selfish 'me' addictions i guess, I would look and think "You didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure me" so stop worrying about me"..that simple. In other words, i'm not the one guilty of causing you pain.
But other people were asking me to stop coming to the hospital drunk, to stop talking endless drug-fuelled shite to someone who is barely conscious or doesn't have the emotional energy to put up barriers. They were not asking me to not drink, but to not polute their space with the affects..and that too drip-fed into my consciousness.
Finally i just woke up one day and all was good with my world. No more hospital visits, my band were about to start playing gigs, it was sunny. Yes, i awoke with a blinding hangover and a drug-induced nosebleed that morning. But, unusually maybe, i just felt very serene, very calm. I knew that was it..no going back "Don't **** it up". I didn't tell anyone until i announced it on this board. Or maybe i rang my mother the night before actually. She said that she knew, that she had heard it in the way I spoke on the phone, that she had been smiling for weeks...
Then someone close to me told me they were proud of me. i was so newly sober i was embarrassed by it. A week later they were dead, and her pride in me kept me from running away and drinking myself into obvlivion. It, and sobriety, allowed me to 'be there' for someone who needed someone there through a long, emotional exhausting night. The following morning i knew I would never drink again. But wait Nico, one day at a time. One day at a time.
I started attending AA and found within a very short space of time i felt comfortable there. Forget the 'god' stuff. If god is your higher power then embrace it,; my higher power is envisaged as a benign collective unconsciousness of goodwill. And a part of that higher power is me, the man i want to be, the human being i can choose to become if i remain focussed and grateful and sober and drug free.
I have a drug worker and a sponsor. I respect them and admire them for their serenity and for their no-nonsense "you are responsible for you" approach. I had been afraid to get a sponsor, afraid to become so sober that i would lose a part of me, a part of my identity. i have no idea what i meant/mean by this, but it;s just how i felt. Instead though i am re-finding parts of myself I have kept 'safe' and hidden, and other less pleasing parts of me i have denied existed.
The one thing I have learned above all else is that i am a work in progress. I did not become 'fixed' as a human being simply by becoming sober. I think it's fair to say that acohol and drug abuse stunted my emotional growth, and sobrity has given me back the ability to choose the path i wish to travel. It hasn't been easy, this 6 months drug and alcohol free period. I have struggled but held out,. I have reached out and asked for support, and received it.
I am grateful to all on this thread who helped me, by your own posted experiences, by your encouragement, and by your occasional exasperated intolerances of my my "I am special" postings. I'm smiling now at a memory of my younger brother saying to me once "There's nothing special about being a p***head Nic"
So, to anyone lurking or newly posting, please reach out when you are ready. I know that there is a poster on this thread to whom i will always have enormous affection for, for giving me a belief via supportive emails- when i felt at my most out of control, that i had the insight i needed to become sober.
And another who offered and continues to offer such enthusiastic & constructive support during sobriety that it makes me smile, everytime.
There are others too who have given support, often without being asked. Indeed my gratitude list is a long one...
This time last year, exactly, i started my journey toward sobriety. I realise now that reaching out for help is not always a sudden" thing. I started long before i reached out to AA and my sponsor. There may be some on here who don't realise they have started that process..I wish them courage and strength and self-conviction to keep on that journey, one day at a time.
Nico -
Message 10
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Thank you Nic, what a great post. That felt like sitting in a meeting and listening to your qualification (as we call 'shares' here). I really like reading people's beginning of month intros with their story, but don't feel inclined to post any of mine,as I've sprinkled bits here and there over the years and feel like I would bore, which I realise is an idiotic thing to say, given the nature of meetings. I love hearing a person's story more than once as there is always something new in it.
Your self-realisation is quite humbling Nic. (That word always reads so fake, but I mean it).
It jut occurred to me that drinking over my leukemia diagnosis would have been the most stupid thing I could have done and would have robbed me of so much I've achieved since then, and I'm reminded of something you said Nic, about getting sober during one of the worst years of your life...who gets sober during a great year? We get sober because things have seriously begun to suck. Not like I woke up and thought "I'll get sober today as my career is on an even keel, all my friends and colleagues have immense respect for me and my rent is paid and I'm in rude health.."
I remember sitting in a meeting listening to someone talking about how hard their 9th year of sobriety had been and wondering how awful that would be, to get sober, rack up some years and then for things to go tits up. Well, it happened, but on balance Greenjewel dying was a lot worse than getting diagnosed, so if I could undo one thing, it would be that. I was terrified of facing one of my cats dying, yet I coped with that sober although I'm still not sure how.
Anyway, that's all by way of saying congratulations to you Nic, and Jane, and KD on the time you've chalked up. I hope there are some newcomers lurking who take the plunge and say hi. It does get easier, honest.
Realising that I was spiritually empty got me sober, as did the realisation that I wouldn't be able to continue to look after my cats if I carried on drinking. I didn't know who I was anymore, where had all my hopes and dreams and ambitions gone? I was a drinking shell, half a person with not an ounce of self respect left and I had reached my own personal wall, my 'bottom'. I'll leave it there for tonight.
Goodnight,
Basia -
Message 11
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
And on the subject of (The Libertines) not looking back into the sun, (last month;s thread)The Good Old Days is also a potent one for me:
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Message 12
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Great post Nic
Honest and humble. Made me have a wee weep if you must know.
"I was a drinking shell, half a person with not an ounce of self respect left and I had reached my own personal wall, my 'bottom'."
Thanks for that Bash.That about sums up how I felt about myself .
KD good to see you in here and posting
Hurrah.
Well I am going to have a lazy day now and an early night as I have a hot date with my computer tomorrow at 5am.
I am going to listen live to TA 60th and join this rather odd cyber community for a larf.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Oz -
Message 13
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Watcha my fave peeps.
I too was about to post about what bash said about being spiritually empty. I realised that what I wrote didn't really convey how i felt that morning..
I awoke feeling calm and serene only because i had reached the bottom of the abyss. I awoke realising that the only way was up, that i simply had ceased to be me. I suddenly knew what i had to do and the relief was just palpable.
OOh just noticed the Libertine's track. Off for a listen and then, as it's 5.30am, i might try sleep.
night guys,
nic x -
Message 14
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
I meant to post the lyrics:
esp for :
'If you've lost your faith in love and music
Oh the end won't be long'
Really am off now. -
Message 15
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Nic, that's a wonderful post. I was particularly struck by this
Instead though i am re-finding parts of myself I have kept 'safe' and hidden, and other less pleasing parts of me i have denied existed.
The one thing I have learned above all else is that i am a work in progress. I did not become 'fixed' as a human being simply by becoming sober. I think it's fair to say that acohol and drug abuse stunted my emotional growth, and sobrity has given me back the ability to choose the path i wish to travel. It hasn't been easy, this 6 months drug and alcohol free period. I have struggled but held out,. I have reached out and asked for support, and received it.Â
I think that resonates just as much for me, as someone who has been affected by the alcoholism of others - the fact of no longer living with alcoholism does not sort everything in one's life out - it just removes the distraction of the alcohol.
Like Bash, I don't really feel like telling my story again this month (in recent months I've tended to link back to somewhere where I have done so, so if anyone wants to know it scrolling back through the start of a thread or two should find it) - although I do know that every time I do tell it here it comes out slightly differently as my perspective on it changes. I also felt more inclined to post about the aspects very close to the alcohol since those are so common that it did not feel like a breach of the privacy of my husband or of our children to talk about them (exish husband has known for some years that I post here and has very occasionally read the threads). As I move away from the alcohol and find myself mulling over other aspects of my past life or my grown-up children's current lives I feel a need to exercise more restraint - I think my rule of thumb is still whether I would mind them reading what I am posting about them but I more often encounter the thought that, yes, they might particularly given that increasing numbers of people reading these boards know who I am or enough about me to be able to find out easily and then with a bit more effort to be able to identify my family (although I've never used the same name as my children it would still be relatively straightforward).
I'm not feeling very inspired this morning - I've the prospect of tidying up and packing here (my home for the last twelve years, in a place where I've lived for thirty years and where I've been spending the New Year with friends - son is the other side of the world for the next few months and daughter is spending new year in Germany) and heading back west to the place I moved to three months ago for a new job - which I think is going to feel a rather subdued place because of a current unsolved tragic murder in the bit of the city where I live and shop.
This time last year I would not have been predicting what was going to happen in the next twelve months - I hope that by this time next year I will have emptied and sold this house without too much trauma and have bought and be installed in a new house which feels like home. I'm making steps in both directions at the moment but not projecting forwards too much, taking it a day at a time.
I'm going to finish this post by repeating from my first post last month for the sake of any new lurkers the things which I wish I had known five years ago and ten years ago and probably longer than that.
I think there are five things which I always feel that I most want to pass on at the start of each month First, problem drinking/alcoholism does not require someone to fit the park bench stereotype - it did not occur to me for many years to identify my husband's problem because he did not fit my stereo-type of someone who drank in the morning etc etc - if alcohol use is a problem, it's a problem however it manifests itself (although it took me quite a long time to correlate my husband's moods and behaviour with drinking).
Second, that no-one else causes someone to drink problematically, that no-one else can control someone's drinking or "cure" them unless they want it for themselves. That's the 3 Cs of Al Anon - you didn't cause it (whatever the drinker might like to say, it's their choice to drink), you cannot control it and you cannot cure it (the drinker will only sort it out if they really really want to).
Third, that AA and Al Anon are not religious groups (although depending on the membership of any particular group you might need to work hard at translating the notion of a higher power into the collective wisdom of the group).
Fourth, that in discussions here and at Al Anon/AA the thing is to look for the similarities rather than the differences - to take what you like - and leave the rest.
Finally, that most things can be solved by an application of the ideas in the serenity prayer - the ability to accept the things we can do nothing about, the courage to change the things we can and (the difficult bit) the wisdom to know the difference.
Have a good day, a good month and a good new year everyone.
Fee -
Message 16
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Just re-read my last post. Apologies for the some of the longer sentences. I think I need to make a new year resolution to write more briefly.
I also forgot to say hello and welcome to KD NYC - can we call you KD for short?
OK, must now get stuff into car and get going.
Fee -
Message 17
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Welcome from the other side of the Hudson to KD NYC.
I am La Bez (or Jane), in recovery for 14 months and, after 10 months of rehab am still living in a halfway house in deepest rural New Jersey hoping to return to my home in the very near future. OH has to offload the apartment in which I spent part of 2009 before I can go home. My bottom came in October 2009 when I was admitted to hospital close to death, for the second time in less than 6 months. Having already experienced a stay in 28 day rehab after the first occasion I knew that I needed a long stay program and found myself in the North West of New Jersey in a very much 12 step based rehab with a fearsome reputation for success with the "reluctant to recover". I was very much in a minority as it was only my second rehab, some had been in as many as 16 previously but I was in every bit as much need of it's brand of treatment as they were.
The "transitional living" house that I am in now belongs to the Lodge and is proving to be just what I need as I readjust to sober living in the outside world.
I'm quite concerned about a former housemate right now. She's an older lady who moved out to a studio in a long stay hotel. Over the last few weeks she has started to miss meetings, failed to show up when promised (she's supposed to come to the house several days a week as part of her aftercare plan and hasn't been). She's not returning calls and was miserable over Christmas. One of the others and I dropped by to call on her yesterday afternoon to check on her as we happened to be near to her place of residence. She took ages to answer the door, wouldn't even let us in for 5 minutes "I just want to be left alone" and was clearly still in bed at 3:30pm. She's obviously terribly depressed and we are all afraid that if she isn't drinking already she soon will be because all the signs of a relapse are in place. Of course it begs the question of exactly what we'd have been able to do, relatively newly in recovery ourselves, if we had found her plastered - other than call the house for advice from the RA that is. -
Message 18
Posted by KD NYC (U14736826) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Thank you for welcoming me and have a good day (or eve).
Had a rough morning today but feel so much better after reading all this.
I'm so happy I'm not drinking, not hungover, that I have the whole day to enjoy.
I can be called KD for sure.
THANK YOU everybody! -
Message 19
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Hey KD, still smiling to see you here. Have a lovely clear=headed full day of that thing we call life. Yeah mornings are pants sometimes aren't they, in the beginning anyway.
It will pass, honest it will.
La Bez, what a horrible situaltion for both your former housemate and for you guys too. You're right of course, little you can do..but destressing all the same.
Wanted to pick up on something Fee said about 'parkbench' drunks. Was thinking that maybe this stereotypical image affects some with drinking problems too. For me, i came from a loving and supportive middle class family; no major traumas, nothing which seemed to point toward a need to drown out pain.
In many ways i just liked alcohol and it just liked me. Until we hated each other.
Antway Fee, hope this next year sees you settled and contented in a plce you can call home.
Nico -
Message 20
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Ok..and for all that..
I need to change my name.
I feel uncomfortable seeing my username staring up at me when i click into TVH
And uncomfortable when i post anywhere else because of it.
A step too far for me. Not hidden away anymore. damn, can't believe how scary it is all of a sudden.
And yes..i know people slip in and out and lurk from outside but it doesn't feel like the same thing.
I need to step back and think, for a while. -
Message 21
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
How I relate to that Nic. Since being in treatment I have realized that my mum was emotionally abusive towards us but I don't think that necessarily can be blamed at all. Like you I just liked alcohol and I loved the way it tastes, I am a fairly picky alkie in that if I didn't like the taste of something then I wouldn't drink it no matter how desperate I was - I had a cupboard full of brandies etc that I used for cooking and never touched to drink even when totally out of my preferred tipple. Never touched the good stuff that I knew was in the basement either - in that case my hatred of mice and refusal to set foot alone into the basement trumped my desperation. in both cases I had to go out and get new supplies. No good telling counselors that you just happened to really like the taste and by the time you hated the alcohol it was too late and you were physically hooked, it has to be doing something for you other than taste - especially as a lot of alkies seem to report hating the taste -
Message 22
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
>can't believe how scary it is all of a sudden<
What is it, exactly, that you are scared of, do you think?
If you want, btw, it is perfectly possible to have one name in here - keep it as Orpheus - and set up a different account (with a different email address) to use elsewhere on the boards. You would not be the only person to do that. Although you do need to be very tidy-minded about remembering who you are where.
Fee -
Message 23
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
< in many ways I just liked alcohol and it just liked me >
La Bez, if you want people to see what you put in pointy brackets you need to put a space either side of the text - I had to click on the reply to you button to see what was actually in your post. I was rather surprised by your first sentence until I did that because I didn't think you would necessarily relate to Nic's last post and I hadn't noticed which post you were replying to.
Fee -
Message 24
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Ooh Fee i really like that idea, thanks Don't know what it is that has freaked me, just that it has. I feel the same about calling myself an alcoholic too.
Off to sort out my usernames and then figure out why i feel so bad later. -
Message 25
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
< No good telling counselors that you just happened to really like the taste and by the time you hated the alcohol it was too late and you were physically hooked, it has to be doing something for you other than taste - especially as a lot of alkies seem to report hating the taste >
I suppose what they have in mind is that lots of people really like the taste and drink regularly and don't get hooked. I would say that my husband started off by just liking the taste - and he and I got into a habit of having alcohol around and having gin and tonic (fairly powerful ones) each evening and a bottle of wine fairly regularly - but he came to depend on it in a way that I didn't and I think it was probably was because it was a crutch/comfort that he found it difficult to stop whereas I didn't at all. I think the fact that he almost never suffered from a hangover also played a part.
But when I talk about the park bench stereotype I'm really saying that people don't need to have reached "down and outness" to have a problem with drink - the notion of a highly functioning alcoholic, to use the jargon, was one with which I was just completely unfamiliar which is why I always feel the need to say that there can be a problem even if work and so on goes on unhindered.
Fee -
Message 26
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
>I feel the same about calling myself an alcoholic too<
It's not obligatory to do that either - I'm not sure that I ever heard my husband describe himself to non-AA people as such - there are all sorts of ways of saying that you don't drink because you've decided that's the easiest way to deal with the problems which it causes you. I did notice that it wasn't until he was happy to talk about the fact that it caused him a problem that he got comfortable with the notion in his own mind.
Fee -
Message 27
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
>I did notice that it wasn't until he was happy to talk about the fact that it caused him a problem that he got comfortable with the notion in his own mind.<
Actually, of course, it was probably the other way round. Although I have noticed for myself that being able to talk or write (to someone else) about something is helpful in getting comfortable in my mind about something - so perhaps the two just go together and create a virtuous spiral/postive feedback loop type thing.
Sorry about three posts in a row - thinking out loud really (which is I suppose what I mean).
Fee -
Message 28
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Sunday, 2nd January 2011
Thanks Fee
-
Message 29
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Monday, 3rd January 2011
Morning all
I am feeling a bit sleepy just now having got up at some unearthly time to listen to "The epi"
Alcohol and pickyness ,mmmmmmmmm
Last week I was given a gift from a client; a bottle of whisky.
I thanked them for their kindness as they weren't to know my past. She bought me whisky because I am a Scot and apparently we do everything from drinking the stuff to brushing our teeth with it.
I loathe the stuff and the smell makes me gag. Actually I never liked the taste or the smell of most spirits and I could happily sit with a cupboard full of rum, gin, vodka etc and never look at it twice. Still that didn't stop me did it.
I loved "the good stuff" and had my own little ritual set out so that I could fully appreciate each bottle. I used to tell myself "I can't be an alcoholic I am far too discerning for that"
Fact remained that as soon as I had put away the first good bottle I'd move on to the next and the next and so on.
I too drank what I liked and yep it tasted fab. My trouble was I didn't stop or not till I had passed out. I had a wonderful collection of wine stained clothes that pays testament to my so called discerning palate. Come to think of it I must have thrown away a fortune in ruined clothing alone not to mention the stuff that went down the gurgler.
Oz -
Message 30
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Monday, 3rd January 2011
> I used to tell myself "I can't be an alcoholic I am far too discerning for that"<
Yes, I think my husband thought that too - and I'm reminded of a conversation he told me he had with an alcohol counsellor in which he had clearly said something about how he must be able to make himself drink in moderation because he was an intelligent person - to which I gather the response was to ask whether he was really saying that only unintelligent people could be alcoholics (I don't know whether she actually used that term or whether that was my husband's translation).
Orpheus, I was thinking further about your concern at being seen on the TVH main page as the opener of this thread - I often am and I suppose that people who don't ever read into the thread may well assume that I'm posting as someone with a drink problem (which wouldn't bother me at all) - or alternatively they may simply assume that you are posting as someone who has had someone else's drink problem in their life - if they do read further into the thread, perhaps to find out which it is, then they encounter your post describing how you are dealing with the problem. If anyone thought badly of you after reading that, then all I can say is that it would say far, far more about you than about them.
I can see your point, though - I've recently been too much embroiled in another thread (nothing to do with alcohol at all and I've taken it out of my discussions so you won't find it there) in which it became clear that once a label (adulteress/"other woman" in that case) has been stuck on someone, then people are very happy to assume that they know all about what that means with almost no facts about the precise situation - I am sure that there are a lot of people for whom the label alcoholic does exactly the same. That's partly why I keep posting here and where relevant in other threads about how very varied the situations can be and that stereo-typical thinking is just not helpful to anyone.
Fee -
Message 31
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Monday, 3rd January 2011
>then all I can say is that it would say far, far more about you than about them<
Er ... that would be "about them than about you" .... but I expect you all read it that way anyway (I did when I previewed).
Fee -
Message 32
Posted by La Bez (U14670366) on Monday, 3rd January 2011
Oz - one woman I was at the Lodge with had a sprawling old house which had an equally huge basement dating from the time it would have been the place for servants. After a time she told her OH by letter that it might be a good idea if he checked behind one almost forgotten door down there before she came home. Hi reply took a while and was along the lines of "v!! What the @*%#! ". Her ritual had involved setting up her own private wine cellar/drinking room complete with comfy chairs for herself and her dog. She had built up a collection of a couple of hundred bottles down there that he then had to get rid of and he'd had no idea at all. Takes closet drinking to a whole new level....,
-
Message 33
Posted by The Giddy Kipper (U10918464) on Monday, 3rd January 2011
Book marking
-
Message 34
Posted by BootsNo7 (U8853924) on Tuesday, 4th January 2011
Ditto
-
Message 35
Posted by Zzumbug (U14655158) on Tuesday, 4th January 2011
Hello. I've been coming here for a long, long time and I'm glad that I don't have to say "I'm a recovering alcoholic' or anything like that. But, alcohol has always been a problem for me and I have been dry for quite a long time now.
The original impetus to stop drinking (apart from financial, not wanting to end up in a rail siding a hundred miles from home or falling down in the street) was my health. Now, following ultrascans, three MRI scans and a liver biopsy I have been told that my liver is fine. No cirrhosis, no pre-cancerous state, Nothing.
Since learning this, just before Christmas, I have been plagued with the thought that I am one of the 'chosen people'. I can now booze to my hearts content and not worry. Whoopee.
I'm coping, just, but my attitude to alcohol has shifted a bit. It now seems possible for me to drink again, in the knowledge that it probably won't harm me. But I am paying the price. I'm now very depressed and anxious and my GP has upped my anti-depressives, which do help me. I haven't returned to booze and in my heart I know that it would not be a good idea for me to do so. But... -
Message 36
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 4th January 2011
Hi Peppertree - that's good news about your liver. My husband was one of your "chosen" ones too - his drinking never seemed to have the least effect on his liver - but it caused enough other harm for me to find myself wishing from time to time that he might have the additional driver of that concern. I couldn't quite equate your < It now seems possible for me to drink again, in the knowledge that it probably won't harm me > with your earlier < not wanting to end up in a rail siding a hundred miles from home or falling down in the street >.
- do you mean that you think you are depressed because you cannot drink? Isn't alcohol a depressant which would only make things worse? Or perhaps you meant something else.
Could your GP prescribe some "talking therapy" as well perhaps? It sounds as though you would like sometime to talk to about it all.
Happy New Year, Giddy and Boots - I hope you have recovered, Giddy.
Fee -
Message 37
Posted by Zzumbug (U14655158) on Tuesday, 4th January 2011
<QUOTE<I couldn't quite equate your < It now seems possible for me to drink again, in the knowledge that it probably won't harm me > with your earlier < not wanting to end up in a rail siding a hundred miles from home or falling down in the street >.</QUOTE> <BR /><BR />Just goes to show how easy it is for someone, i.e. me, to kid themselves/myself that it is possible. But it reflects the hope (fantasy?) that I can have the enjoyable benefits of alcohol without any of the downsides. It has put me back into a dangerous place where my mind chooses to dampen down what I know about the risks in order to justify what ought to be the unthinkable. <BR /><BR />Yes, of course alcohol is a depressant but my condition is not driven by that. However, what should be the best news in the world for me has stirred these demons again and it's tough having to fight. <BR /><BR />
-
Message 38
Posted by Zzumbug (U14655158) on Tuesday, 4th January 2011
Goodness only knows what went wrong with the above message, but here is my response once again.
Just goes to show how easy it is for someone, i.e. me, to kid themselves/myself that it is possible. But it reflects the hope (fantasy?) that I can have the enjoyable benefits of alcohol without any of the downsides. It has put me back into a dangerous place where my mind chooses to dampen down what I know about the risks in order to justify what ought to be the unthinkable.
Yes, of course alcohol is a depressant but my condition is not driven by that. However, what should be the best news in the world for me has stirred these demons again and it's tough having to fight. -
Message 39
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Tuesday, 4th January 2011
>However, what should be the best news in the world for me has stirred these demons again and it's tough having to fight.<
I can understand that. That's why I wondered whether you could find someone to support you other than your GP - counselling or AA or some such. There's no medals for fighting it alone.
(I do wish the new boards hadn't made it so complicated to quote things without things either vanishing or the format getting garbled)
Fee -
Message 40
Posted by KD NYC (U14736826) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
I just came home from a meeting and I feel so much better than I did this morning. Crying and crying- pining for a lost love, worried about money (I got laid off-kinda), no milk in the fridge for coffee or tea, no heat or hot water, no friends contacting me because I told them it was rude to show up at my apt. an hour late on New Year's Eve tripping on mushrooms, blah, blah.
So, I put on a coat over my pyjamas, walked the half block to the corner store and bought milk, had a cup of tea, and then a great place called me for a job interview! I thought they'd laugh at my resume.
After my day turned around and all was calm, I thought how much I missed "partying"-that I missed having a laugh and having no responsibility and just cutting loose. Why?
Because all was well? I don't want to and I won't, but it was weird. Today is 51 days no booze. But I miss it, I miss red wine.
I just have to remember red wine at dinner turns into drinks at a bar, which turns into calling a coke dealer, which leads to putting a credit card down on the bar and then a hideous, horrible day follows.
I am so happy I am not doing that.
Wow- I didn't expect to write so much..good night from NY. -
Message 41
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
KD, so good to hear you. Really glad you went to a meeting, and that you managed the coat over the PJ's thing for a comfort that makes you feel better. It's a good time to remember the H.A.L.T. checklist; when you're feeling a bit wobbly, ask yourself if you're
hungry
angry
lonely
tired.
This seemed so insulting to me when I was first sober, but it works.
If you're hungry, eat.
If you're angry, pick up the phone and call your sponsor or another alchy or go to a meeting.
If you're lonely, pick up the phone and call your sponsor or another alchy or go to a meeting.
If you're tired, sleep, or allot some proper time to rest.
Try never to be all those things at once and and preferably fewer than two.
It helps me when I'm feeling crabby or a bit low.
Congrats on your 51 days.
Bx -
Message 42
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
Good to see you here KD
Can't think of anything to add to Basia's sage words.
Except to say that it helps me to write things down be they good or bad. So good that you felt you can come here.
It will pass.
The very best of luck with the interview. Sometimes a change in circumstances can be a blessing in disguise.
51 days.
Good onya Shelia.
Oz -
Message 43
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
>Sometimes a change in circumstances can be a blessing in disguise<
Yes, indeed. I hope that even though you might have preferred a life which still accommodated red wine without dire consequences, that you can find an equally enjoyable one to replace it with. There isn't just one life which works for us.
For some reason I was having very vivid dreams last night which were a mixture of trying to get recalcitrant young children off to school and a husband who was showing all the signs of relapsing from sobriety - children were aged fifteen years ago and husband current age - all rather odd and unsettling - it's very unusual these days for me to have anxiety dreams, certainly not such vividly clear ones - and I don't think I am particularly anxious about things at the moment. Strange how the brain works. Perhaps it's a consequence of spending some time last night in DTA amongst all the angst there. I don't think I'm going back there for a bit or I might end up asking "How important is it?"
Have a good day everyone. I see you've sorted your user names out Orpheus.
Fee -
Message 44
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
Hi KD. My daughter did not drink any alcohol for a year after quitting after about 15 years of alcoholism. Haf way through last year she decided to join her friends in their weekend drink. She did this for a while and then was informed she was becoming argumentative after she had drunk. she then stopped completely for several weeks. She has been drinking over Christmas and New Year, as have many I'm sure. Yesterday, she told me that on Sunday she felt some stirrings of her cravings of yesteryear. She combatted them, they weren't too bad and went to work on Monday . She was one of only a handful of volunteers to do this. I think her cravings were a warning for her and she says she will not drink as much or anything in the future. She has done brilliantly well... but obviously those cravings lurk there if they are triggered.
I worry that she has no interests. She is only happy at work, which may be unusual! I think this lack of interests was one reason my two children drank. She appears to only work, watch TV or drink. She does not drink at all during the week now. I know she is tired after work as she has an early start and her job is quite physical but I wish she could find something else to do outside of work. -
Message 45
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
I think it is heavy weekend/binge drinkers who do not see themselves to be alcoholics that are the greatest threat to my daughter, not other alcoholics! My son also suffered problems because of them...... partners that would not stop drinking. Although their drinking was frequent, because it was not as frequent as my sons, they did not consider it a problem.
-
Message 46
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
Hello, Locki - good to see you. Has your daughter given up her ebay obsession then? (Not that I'm suggesting that's the sort of activity you'd want her to want).
Fee -
Message 47
Posted by Orpheus (U14408875) on Wednesday, 5th January 2011
Lovely inspirational post KD - for someone like me, who is struggling today. That's another day notched up and a good job interview to boot. Glad your day turned around and good luck with the interview.
Thanks locki, too. it was very interesting reading abourt your daughter and her experimenting with alcohol again.
My day has been a bit more up than down really. my sponsor wants me to start doing my 90 meets in 90 days. We had agreed that i would leave it till after New Year to give me time to sort out my work rota.
However...I haven't done it because, frankly, life is not a fairy tale and work doesn't revolve around me and my demands. Grrrrr, I get that it takes 90 days to break a habit..but the other argument for doing it - which is that i could always find the time to drink - doesn't really resonate with me because i would get up, take my minature to work, work, come home at all hours of the evening/night/3am...and relax by drinking myself into oblivion. Oh well i know what i mean.
As well as that i found at today that my drug worker is not 'my' case worker anymore. They have had a 'reshuffle' for 'personal reasons'. So i didn't go to my bi-weekly meet today so i feel like I have lost the support of both my sponsor and my drug worker, and have to figure out how not to defeat myself over it. And what 'personal reasons?????? I just don't really know if they mean he requested that i be reshuffled? I don't think so because i've always gone on time and done my programme properly and seemed to get on really well with him.
I think maybe it's harder to tell how i might be impacting on someone else at the moment. I'm not as social and not really as tuned into other people as when I was using drugs or alcohol. Ok, i suspect i was tuning in on a completely different wavelength to people before but at least i was tuned in (haha).
Think i'll eat and try to have an early night so i have a clear head to think things through tomorrow.
Oh and La Bez, your story about the cozy wine cellar was quite something! -
Message 48
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Thursday, 6th January 2011
KD, meant to add that I think your friends ('no friends contacting me because I told them it was rude to show up at my apt. an hour late on New Year's Eve tripping on mushrooms') should be changed to 'friends'. Shove 'em. Easy for me to say, I know, but I've been there, as pretty much all of us have.
A previously very close sober friend of mine relapsed. We were, with a third person, a triumvirate of fools, but sober fools, and inseparable for our first 6 months. I knew it wasn't a good idea to hang out with him now, so when he called me at 2 am one morning, drunk, I was seriously perplexed. He knew I was a late person and cool with late calls (read 'had few good boundaries') so presumed I'd be cool with that. He was wrong but like the people-pleaser I was, I let him come by. It was not pleasant, not because he was drunk, that wasn't so bad, but because I knew he was miserable when drinking; God knows I'd heard enough of his story. I didn't want to turn him away because I felt sorry for him. It didn't occur to me to ask myself what I wanted or needed (ie sleep).
I sort of knew then, and def know now, that this wasn't about me, he was lonely and drunk and needed a sounding board and it really could have been anyone, although we had become so close. God this isn't comfortable to remember. Anyway, we both knew that with me still in AA and him back out there drinking, our friendship was extremely limited, but I was disappointed not to hear from him for years. He contacted me out of the blue a few years ago, to check if my email was still the same, and that was it.
He knew that what he did was really out of order; selfish, potentially dangerous to my sobriety, and just plain old rude but I'm not cross with him - it's like the old him was in there somewhere, but obfuscated by alcohol now, again.
God it sucks getting to know someone in sobriety and then seeing them go out, it really sucks. Not because he crashed and burned straight away, he didn't, but he went right back, I mean right back to that misery without passing go or collecting 200.
Oh dear, I've remembered something else too, but I'm really tired and need to sleep. Sorry KD, really jabbered on there, but just really wanted to tell you that I completely empathise. If they can't see why it's not ok for you, they're shot faffing friends.
Nic, thanks for your last post. I just ran out of stem but will be back. Just want to say though that over-sensitivity for me didn't go away after I got sober, but I handle it much better now, and manage to act as if, until it's ok.
Love Bx -
Message 49
Posted by TeaLady (U9077092) on Thursday, 6th January 2011
Hi everyone. This is the first time I've made it in here in 2011. I hope this is a good year for everyone. Just caught up on all the posts. Thank you Nic - your posts are making me smile and cry - and inspiring me.
My pre-Chrsitmas and Christmas period were stupidly busy and I think I forgot HALT - I was often hungry and tired t the same time and the other two crept in too often too. I am trying to remind myself that it is important for me to get enough sleep and rest.
The first few days of the new year were surprisingly sociable for me - a New Year's Eve invitation which I was dreading turned into a hassle-free enjoyable evening and I saw a lot of friends over the weekend - including a bunch of people from my AA home group who all got together and went for a bracing seaside walk. I felt very grateful to have the friendhsip and support that I have - and the friendship and support I have in here too.
TL x -
Message 50
Posted by Fee (U3534148) on Thursday, 6th January 2011
>And what 'personal reasons?????? I just don't really know if they mean he requested that i be reshuffled? I don't think so because i've always gone on time and done my programme properly and seemed to get on really well with him.<
In that case almost certainly nothing to do with you - I assume that there are lots of other people involved whose personal reasons might be the driver for a change that has consequences for everyone else involved? Have they found you someone else?
> but at least i was tuned in (haha)<
Mmm - I suspect you mean that you felt as though you were. How did they - particularly if they were sober - feel about it, I wonder?
Good to see you TeaLady.
Fee
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