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Rubbish care
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
My father has been losing his balance more and more. I have nagged him to see his GP, and finally after a fall that has left one arm bruised and swollen from fingers to shoulder and barely usable, he has done so.
The GP sent round a nurse from the district nursing team. She looked round the house and told him they were going to install some rails (note told not asked) and told him they were going to put a key box on the front of his house. He does not want a key box and personally I can't see it's justified for one week's nursing so I rather suspect they intend to send in social services.
Where do they get off telling him he has to have a key box put in his porch when they're telling him they'll be visiting for one week? I've managed to decode a key box in an emergency. They're not as secure as the powers that be like to pretend to old and disabled people they are.
I have warned him that if social services get involved, then based on my knowledge of them locally, they will provide an erratic service and charge a lot of money for it and he would be better off going to an agency or recruiting someone himself.
But what makes me angry is that whilst my father wasn't looking, the nurse remade his bed and in the process managed to turn the top sheet and all the blankets sideways. When I phoned my father to say I'd be round later to make his bed as usual, he said he didn't want to trouble me, so he'd remade the bed with one arm. Turning a sheet and three blankets 90degrees isn't easy for a man in his eighties doing it with just one arm.
If this is what the district nursing team is going to do for him, my blood pressure is going to go through the roof.
If he wants to get help elsewhere, i.e. not from me, that's fine, but not if it makes things worse for him. -
Message 2
Posted by The Flea (U14601609) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
I'm sorry to hear this Sunny - I've never heard of key boxes before. My Grandparents (one very disabled, one with dementia) didn't have one but I think all of their care was private (they were actually my step grandparents and their side of the family were nearer and helped them a lot more than I was able).
And as for the bed making - well words fail me!!
:¬( -
Message 3
Posted by Halliana (U2407863) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
Oh how awful but not unexpected. I'm sorry to say social services got involved with my friend's one and only illness and they quite literally 'took over'. They wanted the ins and outs of her financial circumstances but she refused to tell them so got charged the maximum amount for their 'help'. admittedly they loaned equipment to help her. a rail for the stairs, stool for the kitchen so she could sit to wash up, iron etc. a frame for round the loo and a commode for when she could no longer get upstairs.
She also got a special pressure mattress and cushion. . and a key box so they could let themselves in.
Age Concern also got involved .. charging forty pounds for administration before they even did anything .They arranged for a cleaner one hour per week, for an fee I can no longer remember, but she was such a 'bad job,' she only lasted two weeks, before the sisters, who took, over decided they'd do it themselves. -
Message 4
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
I'm very worried about the key box. He has a five-lever mortise and an ingersoll lock on the front door. Surely a key safe isn't as good? Surely he won't get the same insurance with a key safe as with a mortise and no key safe?
He's told me what time they're going round tomorrow, so I shall be there.
Meanwhile, I shall check out the prices the local agencies advertise. I know someone down South that I know online says she pays £15/hr to an agency for carers, of which the carers get £8.50.
There are reliable people round here desperate for work and my brother and I could vet them. Someone looking after just one person as a bit of extra money whilst the children are in bed with partner in house would probably be much more reliable time-wise than a full-time social services person with a massive list of people to visit one after another, with extra people added in with no notice, throwing their whole schedule out.
I do his laundry, vacuum, mop, dust, tidy, make his bed, change his sheets, help with his shopping (and can do all of it if need be - I've been going to the supermarket with him and packing his groceries for twenty years, so I don't need telling what to get).
If he wants to employ someone to do things, fine, but I don't like him being bullied by someone who's giving him no time to think about things. If it was a salesman, he'd have a 14 day cooling off period.
My brother says if Dad keeps being bullied, he'll help me to take it up with the authorities.
We don't mind if he spends every last penny he's got on whatever help he needs or wants instead of leaving it to us, but we don't want to see him either bullied or ripped off. -
Message 5
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
I think key safes are often used in conjunction with personal alarm systems. They allow access for named contacts or emergency services if the elderly person is on the floor or for other reasons unable to get to the door. I would think it likely that a named contact would have a key.
However, the contact may not be available. If this is so, the ambulance service goes to the home and they need a key to enter.
My Mum has a key safe and alarm. For different reasons, my brother who is the named contact ,has been unable to attend and the ambulance crew went to my Mum's aid, picked her up,examined her and returned her to bed. -
Message 6
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
My Mum has had at least 5 falls in less than a year. She has Osteoporosis and was hospitalised with 2 of them.... once with a fractured shoulder and the other time with a cracked rib. She is almost permanately bruised.
It seems to me that falls are the curse of old age. Apart from Osteoporosis and mild confusion and memory loss there is nothing wrong with my Mum even though she is nearly 89. Her organs are all OK.However, her lack of balance means she is now unable to go out alone. -
Message 7
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
Wouldn't it affect his insurance, though?
Also how would an ambulance crew get the keysafe number? If a total stranger phoned me and asked me the number to my father's keysafe, I wouldn't give it. Isn't it just simpler to stick with various neighbours having keys?
The other thing is they're not going to get him to have the sort of alarm you carry round with him - I can't even get him to carry his mobile all the time and all he has to do with that is to slip it in his pocket.
It's easy to crack a key safe. They're not even planning to screw it into the wall, they want to screw it into rotten wood in the porch, so someone could lever it off at, say, midnight, take it home, lever it open, and return a couple of hours later to burgle the place. Dead easy.
I feel about this a bit like my father climbing ladders. When my mother died, I tried to persuade my father not to climb ladders to dop cupboards and light bulbs, but he continues to do it. He considers it to be his right to take a risk. I agree with him. He's over 18 and has mental capacity, so if he wants to take risks, that's his choice. If he prefers the risk of dying on his living room floor to the risk of someone breaking in, that's his choice. Whatever came of allowing old people to choose which risks to take? And why is it that if a commercial company turns up on your doorstep, you have a legal 14 day cooling off period, but if the district nurse comes in, they tell you you've got to have something, then tell you they're coming in the next morning to instal it.
They're going to have one shock, though. He has a top of the range lock. You can't get keys cut in an ordinary shop - you have to send away for them and you have to have the code number for the specific key. All the keys are with other people - there are no extra keys. I suppose now they'll take his lock off and put a cheaper one in that anyone can get keys for so that they can have keys to it. -
Message 8
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
There is no doubt that the key safe has helped my Mum. If she had not had it, she would have remained on the floor longer while people tried to break in to help her. Her immediate neighbours did not want to be disturbed at night.
She has carers and they are very nice. The only slight grumble I have is that they tend to automatically use the key safe to let themselves in in the morning. My Mum is up and about then. I feel they should ring, wait a couple of minutes and only use the key safe if she does not appear. She has a small bungalow and it does not take her long to get to the door.
One would normally wait to be let in a house. No doubt they will say it is because they are in a rush. -
Message 9
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
My Mum has her alarm through a social services agency. The person who answers when my Mum activates her alarm button which is on her wrist, can speak to my Mum and my Mum speak to her. The person answering my Mum then contacts the named contact and/or the ambulance service and gives them the key safe number.
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Message 10
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
I would not like to have a prolonged, cold lonely, dark death on the floor.
My next door neighbour was found dead on the floor by her carer in the morning.
I suppose theremust be some risk to a key safe. Perhaps it depends upon the area one lives in. My Mum's key safe is in a side porch and not visible from the pavement and road. That may help. -
Message 11
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
So fine, you have a key-safe. But if my father won't carry his mobile or any other way of contacting anyone, it's not going to be of any use to the emergency services, is it, and he's never fallen in the house anyway.
If he wants a key safe, he has a key safe and that's fine by me. What I don't like is a sequence that goes see GP on Friday about bruised arm, nurse comes in on Saturday and tells him he's having a key safe installed on Sunday morning, giving him no time to think about it, no choice as to the brand (and quality) of key safe. I doubt if they'll give him any choice over who they tell the number to. If a salesman turned up on his doorstep selling keysafes, he'd have a 14 day cooling off period during which he could look around at different brands and different installers. He hasn't even been told whether he has to pay for the key safe.
And maybe a person reaches a point at which they're not terribly keen on living anyway. But we're not allowed to consider that. It's fine if they take an overdose and take a few hours to die, but if they simply wait until they have a stroke or a heart attack or a fall and choose not to call someone, then we condemn them. -
Message 12
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
If your father is able to answer the door I'm not sure why they want him to have a key safe.
My brother and his wife, who are only 57 and 60 had a key safe fitted after my Mum did. I'm not sure why!
After my Mum fractured her shoulder she spoke of wishing to be dead etc. She ismore bouyant now. She swings from despondency and back again. I admire her spirit and tenancity. I don't think I will have it.She appears to be indestructable. -
Message 13
Posted by politeLadyPortia (U7099336) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
Sunny
This raises issues under the Mental Capacity Act- 2005 and the Code of Practice. Sections 1-4 re capacity and decision making.
Your Father clearly has mental capacity has capacity and as such cannot be made to accept things he does not want. The GP/et al have acted in an over bearing manner contrary to what they should be doing which is discussing and consulting both you and AP in these decisions.... they are potentially in breach of s5
And yes it is bullying. Personal budgets now mean people like your AP can choose how these services are provide.
Windfarm Has my email if you want to do this off board....
PLP -
Message 14
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
One problem with ,my Mum is that she has not always used her alarm as she has not wanted to wake my brother!
One time when she fell at about 3 am, she got back into bed with bleeding legs. She did not realise they were bleeding so badly and waited until 7.30 am before she rang my brother. That could have been dangerous.Several times, rather than activate the alarm, she has had to shuffle on her backside from one room to another to try to find something to push herself up on. -
Message 15
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
Although my Mum tries to 'spare'my brother she is also anxious, as is he, that he will not , one day find her dead on the floor.
However, not to use her alarm so as not to disturb my brother seems
ludicrous. How guilty would he feel if the worse happened?
I have offered to be first contact but the agency require the contact to live not more than 20 minutes away and I live 5 hours away! -
Message 16
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
PLP - thanks.
I've just had a conversation with my father. I said that I thought that he should not let anyone put any of his keys in a key safe until his insurers have approved it. He's just read chunks of his insurance policy down the phone to me and it is fairly clear that it wouldn't cover him, so he'll need new insurance.
He's agreed to let me go round there tomorrow to be there with him, so I'm off to bed.
Thanks for all the responses.
PLP - I'll probably email tomorrow. -
Message 17
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Saturday, 2nd April 2011
I have no idea about my Mother's insurance policy as regards her keysafe. Must ask my brother. My brother is a whiz with ,money and finance He was a tax officer!. I cannot believe he would have a key safe himself if it made an insurance void.
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Message 18
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
Hi Sunny Clouds,
I used to be here as ginslinger until I left after SATC, so this may take a while to get through moderation, but I wanted to contribute because many members were so supportive as I tried ot cope with my father's rapid decline.
Hopefully this is a short term thing.
I really do understand how intrusive it feels - it did seem like the world and his wife were trailing through the house. However while the assessor type people could be annoying the carers sent in by the Social services were wonderful - the community response team - all highly experienced and qualified. When we had to go to an agency after 8 weeks they were rubbish in comparison - in nearly a month we only had the same person more than once and the times were all over the place. I was os releived we had the CRT back after another spell in hospital. We had the district nurses when my mother had cancer and they were great too (one extreme Catholic pain is good for your soul type excepted). Obviously it depends on area.
We got a keysafe and no problems but it is a safe area and discreetly placed - also one I chose and had fitted may be better than standard issue.
Going direct to a agency is unlikely to be cheaper - also when dad needed 2 carers at a time we only paid for one as there is a cap. However if he needs help long term you may be able to get a budget and manage that yourselves and you may find people directly cheaper. May be more viable since you seem close enough to supervise. He may be eligible for attendance allowance if you are doing things for him. I know (I did ) that you may see what you do as part of being a daughter and the form is horrifically intrusive but the money does help.
More positively, after my dad had a fall a few years age and fractured his hip, he was sent on a balance course at the local cottage hospital. Hour a week for 3 months - taken there brought back, hour or two & cup of tea! It was fabulous and I am sure kept him relatively independent for another 2/3 years.
I really do understand how it feels to have ones private family life invaded but there is useful stuff available so don't throw the baby out with the bath water, Good luck and all the best to you and your dad,
A lot depends on circumstances -
Message 19
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
In theory he could get direct payments for social care, but they'd be means-tested, so he'd end up repaying the council for all of it under Fairer Charging.
I have been on the receiving end of my local authority's social care. I was not impressed. Being woken at ten o'clock one day and seven the next, and given 5-10 minutes care when the sheet I was pressurised to sign said half an hour was, IMO, a rip-off.
Anyway, someone different came in today to provide some care and we also got the care plan, which said all sorts of odd things like that my father is doubly incontinent, which he isn't, and that I have learning difficulties.
I have insisted that we have something in writing sent to us to say who will arrange the OT and physio assessments. I have also clarified that the care plan will be kept on their computer for future reference and obtained the contact number of the team.
I felt much happier being there to be assertive about getting things in writing and to clarify what is going to happen. However, my father has decided that he does not want any nursing care for the time being as he is able to wash and dress.
But the triumph of the day, which eclipses everything, is that I have got my father to promise to use a walking stick. Hurrah! -
Message 20
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
Clearly our authorities are very different since your authority ones sound like our agency ones...! But I have seen a couple of advertisements locally for independent carers and I might have been tempted. You do have ot watch waht they say on the assessments. You should be given a copy to agree.
I don't know if htere is a falls team near you. Every time I had to call the paramedics to scrape him up they referred us but we never heard anything (it was very much a curates egg thing - some of the care he got was great , other bits dreadful and not very "joined up). However he did have Rehabs and Physios visit from the hospital who were great,
Good news on the stick. He might find a trolley useful too.
Has he or would he agree to see the GP to see if there is any cause of the balance problems that can be remedied? I read that some older people are assumed to be going daft when they are just deaf and sometimes something as simple as ear syringing can make a difference.
Anyway, keep us posted - and I will repeat the advice that I was given (but didn't always take) to try to take care of yourself while you are taking care of your dad. He is lucky to have you in his corner, seeeing the perfunctionary "care" provided by the agency staff made me dread being in the same situation not having any children or even nieces or nephews who might take an interest, -
Message 21
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
His GP has given him some ear drops and is also referring him to a consultant, but Dad doesn't know what sort of consultant. We'll see.
I'm afraid I'm getting a bit militant. Is this normal, I wonder?
You are right to pick up on the need I have to take care of myself. I am not in the best of health (otherwise I wouldn't be on the sick) and having read the new criteria for ESA that came into force a few days ago, I am pretty sure that when the time comes to be migrated from IB to ESA, I'll find myself on JSA. I need to get stronger, otherwise I shan't cope with looking after myself, looking after Dad, and working.
Some days I just feel like knocking myself flat with half a packet of my anti-mad pills plus a quantity of cider, but there's the next morning to think of, isn't there? -
Message 22
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
Oh I am so sorry. I was only a carer for a little while and I was younger than many in the same situation having had older parents and I was completely exhausted and normally robust physical health trashed. I am still very run down and picking up every bug going. It is a most unappreciated thing. I never qualified for Carer's allowance because Dad died just as he got his Attendance granted but what stuck in my craw was that my care for him was valued at a maximum of £1.30 an hour but we had to pay £15.50 for agency staff. So insulting.
If by getting militant you mean you want the best for someone you love and are prepared to make a fuss about it then I think it is fairly normal. I was far "pushier" for dad than I would have been for me.
Hang on in there - it is normal to have that kind of moments.I used to have times when I thought I'd just runaway.. bus somehow you don't.
Fingers crossed that the drops will help.
I don't pray but I will keep you in my thoughts. -
Message 23
Posted by Retired-Rural-Person (U8479978) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
Just calling in to say hallo, Sunny, and to wish you and the AP well.
Good that you have the offer of help from PLP who has been very generous with her skill and experience to various MLers.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
Retired -
Message 24
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Sunday, 3rd April 2011
Yes, she's very kind, as are the others of you who've replied on here, helping me to get things into perspective.
Whilst I may often seem very articulate and compos-mentis on here, there are many things I struggle with. I have one or two baths a week, I don't change my clothes as often as I might and although I may make a lot of jokes about chocolate, the truth of it is that I drink an awful lot of it to the exclusion of healthier food. I survive with lists. I even include things like washing up and bathing and making the bed on my lists. So the irony is that my father is doing a better job than I am of keeping clean and properly fed.
But it is difficult for him. It is nearly the anniversary of my mother's death. I leave you to imagine how he feels about this. An elderly widower simply isn't going to be at their best at such a time.
I am exploding emotionally with all this. I can sit there calmly with my father sorting things out with him, but when I get home, I pace around talking, I cry, I try desperately to think of people I can phone to talk to about it.
I love my father very, very much. -
Message 25
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Monday, 4th April 2011
I think your love for your father is clear from your posts. And I think you are very brave to be so honest and open about your own problems - and the fact that you have that awareness is a good sign. Do what you have to do to cope and if that means lists - make a list.
Be kind to yourself Sunny, you seem to be coping pretty well despite your own difficulties. Anniversaries are hard even without the other issues. I know that he found it hard to show his feelings Daddy missed Mum dreadfully and brooded over the circumstances of her death even some years after especially on significant dates. He had never expected to be widower. And it must be hard for you too - you have lost one parent and the other is getting frailer. You are being strong for your dad I just hope you can get some real support - emotional and practical - as well as the virtual kind. -
Message 26
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 4th April 2011
Yes Sunny, don't be so hard upon yourself. My house is 'wallpapered' with lists and Post Its. Without them I could not function. They actually ruin the decor of my house! And, at this stage of my life, despite having Clincial Depression in the past, I am now considered to be 'normal'!
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Message 27
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 4th April 2011
....and remember Sunny, that not everyone has children who love them at all. That is a huge plus for your Father and for my my Mother.
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Message 28
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Monday, 4th April 2011
Yes, a huge plus.
Sadly, I also have selfish feelings. Having got used to being alone and doing my own thing, I am now spending time with him. I find myself wondering how big a shock it will be for me when he goes. Also, every day is a reminder that I have no children to do for me what I am doing for him, but then, who knows what the future may bring? -
Message 29
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Monday, 4th April 2011
"Selfish feelings" are also normal I think. You know people would tell me I was wonderful for caring for my dad and I would feel a complete fraud because I resented it so much at times. And a wise and compasssionate friend told me that I was only human and if I didn't feel resentment it would be because I hadn't actually given much. So your feelings are because you are selfless not selfish.
And I miss him so much but I hope that there will be good things in my future if I have the courage to be open to them. But at the moment all is upheaval and clearing up the old life and some days I just sit on the sofa and cry, It is a long road.. but I hope I am getting there... -
Message 30
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 4th April 2011
Sunny,
Haven't had time to read all through your thread I'm afraid (visitors all weekend) but I wanted to say that I echo your feeling that a good, motivated local person can often make a far better carer than agency staff. My MiL has a couple of local authority carers who fly in and out and aren't bothered to offer MiL what she needs and wants: they do what they feel they are booked to do. So MiL would like milky porridge in the morning, but they are in too much of a rush and give her toast, which she doesn't feel like eating first thing.
We have now, through asking around, found two local women, both former nurses who offered full references, whom we pay £10 an hour to go round, sit with MiL, sort out breakfast and pill-taking and deal with minor issues around sorting out laundry and organising her. They arrange the rota themselves, stay longer if my MiL is having a really bad day and call us on a daily basis to report how she's doing or flag up any issues they've spotted. They are worth their weight in gold and are far more sensitive to my MiL's needs than over-worked, underpaid agency staff who do enough to tick a box but no more. There are lots of people out there, often in their 50s, who've taken early retirement or been made redundant who welcome the chance to earn a little money and actively enjoy knowing they've helped. We would far rather employ them than deal with agency staff who aren't accountable to us or MiL.
I feel sad to say that it's best to go private. There really ought to be quality care available from the authorities, but that's not been our experience. -
Message 31
Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Monday, 4th April 2011
As someone who has experienced carersb0th from an agency and directly employed can I ask everyone to please please check refernces and get a CRB check. I had various items stolen when I was bedbound.
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Message 32
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 4th April 2011
Oh yes Sunny, i am not saying that love entirely rules out resentment.
It just ensures that there is underneath that, a basic desire for what is best for one's parent and this can temper normal selfish feelings.
Remember, having children is absolutely no guarantee that one will receive any care from them. At least you will be spared the heartache entailed by that. -
Message 33
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Monday, 4th April 2011
Yes, I agree that references and a CRB disclosure are important.
I know that some people have wonderful local authority care. I also know that my personal experience of it was terrible. The carer would turn up and tell me to sign her sheet saying she'd been there half an hour without her actually doing anything at all and being there less than five minutes (whilst she got me to sign her timesheet).
I don't think Dad actually needs carers yet, but I daresay it won't be long.
Militants-R-us. -
Message 34
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Monday, 4th April 2011
The other thing to be careful of is to make sure they are responsible for their tax and NI - you may not want the hassle of "employing" them in that sense.
While your dad doesn't need them now but it ins't a bad thing to look at options before you are forced to make decisions quickly, I rather shoved my head in the sand and then when the crisis happened it was all rather overwhelming.
That reminds me so much of the agency carer - 45 mins was nearer to 20.always wanted to bowl wash because it was quicker though it was better for dad to walk to the bathroom if he could. Didn't bother to straighten his collar or comb his hair ...
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Message 35
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Monday, 4th April 2011
I suppose the payroll function is a pain.
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Message 36
Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Monday, 4th April 2011
I had Direct Payments and there was a charity thta did the tax and national insurabce.
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Message 37
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Monday, 4th April 2011
Well there may be ways round it liek NunMum said - and if someone is potentially looking after several people rather than being employed by one person (like a nanny) then they will probably be properly self employed and you won't have the problem. How is your Dad anyway in the midst of all this? Arm more comfortable I hope.
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