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Blood Pressure Tablets Question
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Message 1.Â
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Wednesday, 20th July 2011
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but it seems more appropriate here than in the Bull.
My doctor has just put me on BP tabs, the diuretic (water tablet) type, and whilst it seems to be doing the job of bringing my BP down pretty well, I don't quite understand how this can be a healthy way of doing it seeing as we are all told to drink at least 8 glasses of water (or other fluid) a day.
I alway thought I never really took enough fluid on board during the course of the day as it was, and now I have tablets to rid me of even more! Strangely enough, I don't feel any more thirsty than I did before, but I do get headaches which I should imagine may be the result of dehydration.
So, I guess the upshot is that I should start having more fluids, but then is there any point because won't it just all be flushed out again because of the tablets I'm taking.
Signed, Confused of Sussex -
Message 2
Posted by matilda groves (U1636558) on Wednesday, 20th July 2011
This is how I understand they work:
Diuretics are sometimes called ‘water tablets’ Âbecause they can cause you to pass more urine than usual. They work on your kidneys by Âincreasing the amount of salt and water that comes out through your urine. Too much salt can cause extra fluid to build up in your blood vessels, raising your blood pressure. Diuretics lower your blood pressure by flushing salt out of your body, taking this unwanted extra fluid with it.
Hope that helps
matty -
Message 3
Posted by BaraGwenith (U14257539) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
Relax, you don't have to drink 8 glasses of water - no one does!
This is something that was put about by the people who sell bottled water and unfortunately the medical profession latched on to it for no good reason.
Dehydration is not a desirable state, but just drink when you are thirsty. Water comes from many sources - your meals, fruit and veg, and well, water and other drinks such as milk or fruit juice.
I hope the tablets help, but don't get too hung up on drinking gallons of water. -
Message 4
Posted by Auntie Prue (U14585893) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
Is this an outbreak of common sense?
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Message 5
Posted by metro-mouse (U3068238) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
I am rather afraid that it looks like that, Aunty Prue. Oh dear. mm
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Message 6
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
Relax, you don't have to drink 8 glasses of water - no one does!
This is something that was put about by the people who sell bottled water and unfortunately the medical profession latched on to it for no good reason.
Dehydration is not a desirable state, but just drink when you are thirsty. Water comes from many sources - your meals, fruit and veg, and well, water and other drinks such as milk or fruit juice.
I hope the tablets help, but don't get too hung up on drinking gallons of water.Â
Hi BaraG, thanks for your reply. I wasn't actually intending to drink gallons of water, and realised the 'recommended' 8 glasses included other types of drinks and meals. It was more that I didn't think I took on board enough fluid from any of these sources in the first place, and then to take diuretics on top of that just seemed a bit unhealthy to me (and the fact I now get muscle cramps and headaches seems to bear that out).
My question was really more to do with how the diuretic tablets work and how that should be balanced with a healthy fluid intake, rather than just a general question about fluid intake, but thanks anyway
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Message 7
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
This is how I understand they work:
Diuretics are sometimes called ‘water tablets’ Âbecause they can cause you to pass more urine than usual. They work on your kidneys by Âincreasing the amount of salt and water that comes out through your urine. Too much salt can cause extra fluid to build up in your blood vessels, raising your blood pressure. Diuretics lower your blood pressure by flushing salt out of your body, taking this unwanted extra fluid with it.
Hope that helps
³¾²¹³Ù³Ù²âÌý
Hi Matty, thanks for that, that does help me understand a bit more how these tablets work (and obviously mean I can eat even more crisps then, if it gets rid of excess salt ; -) )
One thing I have found, while reading up about this, is that these particular tabs get rid of potassium and yet potassium seems to be a key mineral for helping keep blood pressure down! Hopefully, if I can find out enough about things like this, I will be able to manage to keep my blood pressure down by diet rather than tabs and have already increased my potassium intake by buying (and eating : -D) some bananas today (something which I hardly ever eat). -
Message 8
Posted by wandypig (U3850819) on Friday, 22nd July 2011
Hello, I was put on bp tablets last summer, Ramipril, which are not the diuretic type, and the dose was increased gradually over the months. then a diuretic tablet was added in, and the two together had the desired effect on my bp. However, the Ramipril was having a disastrous effect on my digestive system, with horrendous constipation, so the GP took me off those and now I am just on the diuretic and keeping my fingers crossed that they will work on their own. So far, touch wood, they seem to be. I've got a monitoring kit so that I can record my bp at home and at different times of the day, so I will be able to prove to the doctor that I can get low measurements even if I can't do so in the surgery!
Good luck with yours, Red Shoes. -
Message 9
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Tuesday, 2nd August 2011
Thanks wandypig, I've now been put on Ramipril and so far so good, no side effects. I felt absolutely dreadful when I was on the diuretic ones, so it just goes to show how different treatment suits people differently doesn't it? Hope just taking the diuretic one on it's own works out ok for you.
I've got one of those monitoring kits too, they're good aren't they? My blood pressure readings are always much higher at the doctors because he's always in such a rush and interrogating me with questions while he is carrying out the test, not really how it's meant to be done is it?! -
Message 10
Posted by savannahlady (U2362903) on Tuesday, 2nd August 2011
Thanks wandypig, I've now been put on Ramipril and so far so good, no side effects. I felt absolutely dreadful when I was on the diuretic ones, so it just goes to show how different treatment suits people differently doesn't it? Hope just taking the diuretic one on it's own works out ok for you.Â
Ramipril is actually an ACE inhibitor (angiotensin-converting enzyme). ACE inhibitors lower the production of angiotensin II and therefore relax arterial muscles while simultaneously enlarging the arteries. This obviously allows the heart to pump blood more effectively and more easily. The main positive effect of this process is the increased rate of blood flow due to more blood being pumped through larger passages.
Ramipril is often prescribed when patients show symptoms or indications of hypertension, which is one of the four main causes of heart failure. Ramipril is also deployed to combat congestive heart failure and following myocardial infarction in patients with clinical evidence of previous heart failure. It can also be used as a preventative drug for susceptible patients over 55 years. It can be used to prevent myocardial infarction, stroke, cardiovascular death or dependency on revascularization procedures. The drug has also been given to patients battling diabetic nephropathy with micro-albuminuria.
I have taken Ramipril for 7 years now as part of a cocktail of drugs I take daily to mitigate the effects of heart failure. I expect your doctor will have told you that regular checks on your kidney function are an important part of the monitoring process.
Nowadays treatment is very aggressive for those who either have, or who are potential candidates for, the more serious conditions such as heart failure. Though there are days when I get a bit fed up with the large number of meds I have to take, but I am so grateful for still being here and still being an active person, which I probably wouldn't have been 20/30 years ago.
I wish you both lots of luck with your treatments and hope you feel a lot better for them
Savvie -
Message 11
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Tuesday, 2nd August 2011
Thanks Savvie, I've been wondering about the risk of stroke with taking Ramipril because I know my doctor mentioned it and I couldn't remember if he said it helped prevent them or increased the risk (there was so much he was saying to have to take in) so thanks for that.
Yes, he did mention that regular blood tests were needed while taking Ramipril and I have my first one to monitor that next monday (have had loads of other blood test the last few weeks, but this will be the first to check on the effects of Ramipril on my kidney function).
Best wishes to you too, glad to hear you are able to keep up a fairly active lifestyle. That's actually quite good to know because I have a bit of a thing about taking pills, I don't like taking them unless absolutely necessary because of all the side effects, but if you are able to take that many and still manage to function ok, that's good news! I suppose that's the whole point of taking pills, isn't it, to help us function properly again : -) -
Message 12
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Sunday, 16th October 2011
Just thought I would give this thread a bump in case anyone wants to talk about anything BP related.
One thing I've been trying to do is to cut down on my salt intake, and it surprising when you start checking all the food packets just how much salt is in some products. One in particular I was quite shocked about was those packets of microwavable rice, I quite often have the plain basmati but also used to have the flavoured ones too, not thinking there was very much difference saltwise. On checking the packets though, I noticed that the basmati only had a trace of salt and the flavoured one was something like 16% of my recommended intake. So no contest between those two, it's basmati every time from now on.
I'm a bit stuck for ideas for lunches though, dinner doesn't seem to be so much of a problem and it's quite easy to knock something up that is within about 30% of RSI (recommended salt intake (-; ), but I'm having a real problem keeping lunches within limits. Bread, for a start, is so high in salt, then of course cheese is, and ham. Soups are also astonishingly high in salt content, so those have gone out of the window! It would be nice to have something hot like that for lunch though, especially now winter is on it's way, but I'm well and truly stuck for ideas. -
Message 13
Posted by Fee (U3534148) ** on Sunday, 16th October 2011
Hi Red Shoes - I know nothing whatever about BP tablets but I have made quite a lot of soup in the past and it doesn't have to have lots of soup in it - I rarely put salt in vegetables this days (or rice or pasta much either) and although I noticed the difference in flavour a bit at first, I don't now.
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Message 14
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Sunday, 16th October 2011
When you are making soup, do you put stock cubes in? Those seem to have a lot of salt in too /-:
(I think I might be getting a bit salt obsessed, but it has come as a bit of a shock to me just how much there seems to be in almost everything you buy. People must end up going over their recommended limits by two or three times, at least, a day surely?) -
Message 15
Posted by Fee (U3534148) ** on Sunday, 16th October 2011
>When you are making soup, do you put stock cubes in? Those seem to have a lot of salt in too /-:<
No, not necessarily, and certainly never anything like as much of the stock cube as would be suggested - quite often I would just cook the vegetables in water and then drain most of it off - making quite a thick vegetable puree type soup which can then be thinned down with yoghurt - seasoned with pepper or herbs rather than salt. -
Message 16
Posted by Fee (U3534148) ** on Sunday, 16th October 2011
Just looking to see if I can find any of the recipes I might have used (these days I usually make it up as I go along) - there's a Jane Grigson carrot soup which is made in much the way I describe without stock - and a spinach one which gives the option of stock or water (nutmeg and garlic in the recipe, I see) - so I think it's probably a perfectly reputable way of doing it - although I suspect I got into the habit as a result of not having stock available.
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Message 17
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Sunday, 16th October 2011
OK, thanks for that, Fee. I've must admit I've always been a bit "why bother to make soup when you can just open a tin" in the past, but will now try and make an effort, and give some recipes a go.
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Message 18
Posted by Flightless Anachronistic Bird (U6437464) on Sunday, 16th October 2011
Red Shoes, If bought bread for lunch is a problem, have you thought about buying a breadmaker? You can have completely salt-free bread then if you want (or just put a more sensible amount in), and I gather that bread makers don't require any cordon-bleu cookery skills :- )
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Message 19
Posted by GuzziNut (U6364582) on Sunday, 16th October 2011
F(a)b beat me too it, but I second getting a bread machine, That way you know exactly whats in the loaf. I will admit I don't add any salt to mine when I make bread, which some think makes the bread taste odd, however i've had no complaints.
Do you have a freezer? I make soup by the large vat full at the weekend, when I'm at home, we get some for lunch, then I freeze it for lunches, for both the Bloke and I. One stock cube in a vat and no more salt is added seems to be ok
Ok I admit I like mucking around in the kitchen and trying new soup recipes, (not all do, i appreciate that), I also have an astonishingly unfussy other half, who will eat whatever I Make, even the recipes that go wrong... Chilli sauce covers a multitude of things in that instance (:
K allo reduced salt cubes taste good IMO, or the swiss marigold bouillon powder stock in the purple tin is good too, i think the purple tin is either low salt or yeast free... Powder is good tho, you add as much or as little as you want, you aren't restricted to a cube size dollop
I haven't actually added salt to anything I make for years, no I lie, I made morrocan preserved lemons, for when I make tagine, but it's available to those who want it when they come round for supper -
Message 20
Posted by politebirder (U4482231) on Sunday, 16th October 2011
I am on Ramipril & Propranolol for high BP. I have had no side-effects except an occasional dry throat.
Re salt, I use quite a lot of black pepper & we like fresh herbs. We don't miss salt & I either leave it out or reduce it in all cooking.
Marigold stock powder in the purple tin is wonderful. It is suitable for vegans as well as being low salt.
Making soup is easy & cheap & it is far tastier than canned. I always save stock which I make from veg water (unsalted) & by boiling up chicken carcasses with veg & herb.
I now prefer unsalted butter. The only thing I miss is bacon, which we have once a month rather than once a week.
I think bread needs a bit of salt but my recipe has a scant teaspoon to two pounds of flour. -
Message 21
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Some good ideas here, I'd not thought of using a breadmaker but also wasn't sure if bread actually needed a reasonable amount of salt added to make the yeast work rather than add flavour (or is that sugar? It's so long ago since I made it last, probably way back at school!), but it seems you can make perfectly good bread without adding going by what some of you have said.
Back to the tablets, I had to change from Ramipril because they were upsetting my stomach and now taking candesartan (Amias), but have had to be started on a low dose because there seems to be a bit of an issue with my kidney function. I have to say, my doctors have been excellent with their monitoring while trying me out on all the different types, and I've been having blood tests pretty much every fortnight to check what effect they are having on me. Unfortunately, just got a letter through the post yesterday asking me to make another blood test appt as their must be an issue with the last one I had, so the new tabs don't seem to be suitable either and I doubt I will be able to have the dose increased to what it needs to be. I'm fast running out of different types of tablet! -
Message 22
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Yes, Marigold stock, I'd forgotten about that. I remember buying the reduced salt one some years back 'by mistake'! I'm actually going to buy some 'on purpose' this time (-;
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Message 23
Posted by grumpykewwoman (U11102344) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Red Shoes, used to put salt in most things but when I met Mr GKW 14 years ago next Monday I stopped because he didn't like it. Now salt, apart from the odd sprinkle on an egg, is hardly ever used. A very quick and simple soup is a tin of tomatoes (plus the same amount of water or more), split red lentils, simmered and then flavoured with cumin, corriander or basil and pureed. Can also "finish" with a small amount of yoghurt or single cream. Oh and lots of black pepper and or lemon juice. A thick version makes a really good pasta sauce. Lemon juice has the most amazing talent to bring out flavours in food. When I make veg soup, whatever might be around, I just simmer in water, puree and then add seasoning to taste. Best of luck. If you want to pop into the Foodie Thread in TVH I'm sure others would give you some tips for cooking with no salt/low salt.
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Message 24
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
If you want to pop into the Foodie Thread in TVH I'm sure others would give you some tips for cooking with no salt/low salt.Â
Good idea. Thanks (-:
The soup recipe sounds good too. I've been rummaging all through my stock cupboards and just getting rid of a few things I hadn't realised before were so high in salt. For instance, those packet instant noodles, incredible the amount of salt in those! Actually, I've just realised the salt is probably in the little packet stock thing, so may have been able to replace with some of that low salt Marigold stock. Oh well, too late now Also, I bought a carton of passata a while back thinking it was just strained and pureed tomatoes. The particular one I bought was incredibly high in salt, about 25% or something, so that went straight in the bin! -
Message 25
Posted by grumpykewwoman (U11102344) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Red Shoes, yes it's amazing how much salt is in the most basic things but you soon learn to check and work out how much you are taking on board. The low salt Marigold stock is good. We are very lucky, it's by choice we don't have much salt. Do pop into the Foodie Thread if you have a chance.
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Message 26
Posted by RedShoes (U14716264) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Thanks
I generally don't put salt on 'at the table', well hardly ever, but cooking I do find quite hard (things like boiling spuds, etc) because it not only adds flavour but aids the cooking process. I find if I don't add enough in the cooking, then that's when I find I need to add more at the table and have a feeling that would end up being more than if I had included it in the cooking process (and most of it poured away with the cooking water). I'm not sure about steaming things, as I would probably end up doing the same (i.e. having to add salt at the table).
I'm not really becoming salt-obsessed, honestly (-; -
Message 27
Posted by grumpykewwoman (U11102344) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Red Shoes, first thing I stopped doing was adding salt as I cooked, hard I know. You would be amazed at the difference in what you put in when you cook and the small amount you use at the table. Sorry you don't pour away most of the salty element with the cooking water, never heard about the trick for de-salting say a soup or sauce with too much salt? Pop in a cut potato, it soaks up the salt! Steaming things really does enhance the flavour so please give that a try as well. Some days I really fancy salt on something so I do and I don't think I could give up on say eggs or tomatoes. Only trying to help not preach and I found it quite hard at first.
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Message 28
Posted by GuzziNut (U6364582) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Redshoes, gkw has got it about right, its hard at first to stop adding salt, your tastebuds are used to it, but it does get easier. I guess i found it easier, coz I stopped using it as soon as I escaped (sorry, left home) and i started playing with spices, which were an anathema to the ma
Got to admit I reach for the pepper grinder on most occasions and i do like chilli sauce but, we all have vices
Sure a pot of marigold will help, which reminds me, i've run out (-: -
Message 29
Posted by grumpykewwoman (U11102344) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Hi Guzzinut, not seen you over in the Foodie Thread for ages. I usually turn to the pepper grinder, spices and herbs as well as lemon juice which really does bring out flavours. We are agreed that it is hard to start with but worth it in the end. Funnily enough this evening I was searching around for an asprin to give to Mr GKW. Took some time because we don't keep such things to hand, first thing I found was a huge pack of cooking salt, kept to salt the front path in icy weather. Salt does have some uses!
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