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Accumulated Benefits - a question
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Binky (U4657795) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
I need some advice re. DWP and am hoping someone knows the ropes and can help.
A disabled relative has been housebound for almost 6 months and hasn't been drawing/using their state benefits. Another relative has been doing their shopping and paying all bills until relly gets back on their feet. The amount of accumulated benefit has tripped over whatever the limit is these days.
I think the Post Office must have a mechanism for informing DWP as relly had a visit before Xmas.
Does anyone know what is likely to happen? -
Message 2
Posted by Lilo (U12007400) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
I can't find any information about a limit for accumulated benefits or if the Post Office advise DWP.
What did the DWP person say during their visit? I would have thought they'd have suggested authorising someone else to draw the benefits, and quickly. Very easy to do.
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Message 3
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
They may have an interview under caution with a view to prosecution. If they knowingly failed to declare capital over the threshold, they may be prosecuted. Mens rea (guilty intent) will be very relevant. However, if it was just a mishap, they may find that they have their benefits recalculated and have them reduced in future, including paying back anything that they should have had deducted from their benefits.
IMO, it is important to seek face to face advice from a solicitor or welfare rights adviser, and not just someone with general knowledge, but someone with a high level of knowledge who can accompany them to any interviews.
Be aware, however, that if this results in a loss of means-tested benefits, it may also result of a loss of entitlement to legal aid for legal representation.
Urgent first class professional advice and help is essential unless the DWP send a letter /very/ soon saying they're writing it off or deducting it from future benefits with no legal action. -
Message 4
Posted by Morse Lives (U1863548) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
I would absolutely agree with this advice, and what also occurs to me is can the other relative prove that s/he kept the ill one, and paid the bills ?
Could be very important. -
Message 5
Posted by Caro (U14909021) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
I don't know if this is the sort of information you want, but the current threshold for allowable savings is £16,000.
(verified by the welfare rights website for advice workers). -
Message 6
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
I thought that all benefits were paid into a bank account these days? If that's the case, how do the DWP know whether the person has drawn out the money to spend or not?
Or am I missing something here? -
Message 7
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
Just to add to that - the amount of benefit you get is considered to be income (not capital) for the period for which it is paid.
So if, to take random figures, you get £X weekly for benefit A, £Y fortnightly for benefit B and £Z monthly for benefit C, the total income you can have (that isn't regarded as capital) is £X+Y+Z.
I'm finding this a nightmare because I'm spending for Dad then he reimburses me and I think I'm going to have to set up a separate account to make sure I don't appear to have money I don't.
Also, in my case, my condition is relapsing-remitting, so my needs are greater at some times of the year than others.
Ah well, time to sit down with some receipts and to work out which money is mine and which is Dad's and then work out how much money I've got left. -
Message 8
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
Binky, yes, the post office would have communicated with the DWP after months of the benefits not being cashed. (Sadly, a much more common reason for this happening would be that the person has died, hence the visit).
Is the benefit your disabled relative receives actually means-tested?
There are incapacity/retirement benefits that aren't dependent on savings being below a certain level, so there might not be a problem at all, which would be nice. -
Message 9
Posted by Binky (U4657795) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
The problem I have, which I suppose many relatives face, is that I don't want to pry. My relative wants privacy and should get it, so I don't ask about income. I don't claim benefits myself so have no idea about 'income/capital levels' but this is what the relly has crashed through (I think).
What I find distressing is that my relly hasn't tried to do anything underhand or fraudulent; she has been housebound due to physical problems (and can be doctor verified if needs be) and so unable to spend the cash provided by DWP. She does however plan to buy essential items such as an electric wheelchair, an orthopedic bed, a new oven and some new pans - this is in addition to refunding the other relative who has coughed up for food/leccy/gas/etc. and expects a refund in due course.
My relative is worried and fretting about the consequences of letting this money accumulate, and all I want is some info to set her mind at rest. -
Message 10
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
If she does have money over the threshold for claiming benefits, then if she spends it in order to become eligible, she can be treated as still having it, but if she spends it and her prime purpose in spending it is to buy something reasonable (e.g. a necessary wheelchair, a cooker, a repair to the roof etc.) then she can do that and bring her capital down without being penalised.
It's fine with obvious things, but there are peculiarities like whether it's reasonable to pay off a debt all in one go etc. -
Message 11
Posted by Friend of Moose (U14307683) on Tuesday, 27th December 2011
It feels as if it should be something that could get sorted out - ideally without too much interuption of benefits payments.
I'd want to get details of exactly what expenses - bills, food shopping etc were incurred throughout the period when the person was sick, and show what money the sick person actually would have had left over - week by week - once these expenses had been accounted for.
Ideally whoever deals with the relevant benefits at the DWP office would then understand that the sick person's indebtedness meant that their level of 'true' savings - as opposed to the amount left in the Post Office - was under the level at which benefits payments would be affected.
In the event that the DWP didn't prove understanding, I think it would be useful to go to Citizens Advice with this one. -
Message 12
Posted by BaraGwenith (U14257539) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
I would suspect it is normal to check if benefits haven't been collected for six months. They just want to check that, not to put too fine a point on it, a death or change in circumstances has not occured.
Probably routine. -
Message 13
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
My relative is worried and fretting about the consequences of letting this money accumulate, and all I want is some info to set her mind at rest.
Ìý
That's exactly why simply finding out what benefits they are might, instantly, be able to put your relatives mind at rest.
DLA isn't means-tested, nor is Incapacity Benefit or the Contribution-based element of Retirement Pension. -
Message 14
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
We don't know what was said when someone from the DWP called at the relation's home, but the subject of capital limits seems to have been raised, so I think it safe to assume that it is not irrelevant.
The person who paid for all the shoppingand other bills must be owed a lot of money by now. I have a horrid feeling that repaying debts is sometimes counted as "deprivation of capital" but perhaps in view of the circumstances it can be treated as payment of bills. Let's hope so. -
Message 15
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
Possibly relevant, possibly irrelevant - you'd have to know which benefits were in payment to be able to find out any relevant information,; Binky says "I don't want to pry", but if you aren't willing to ask some basic questions, then your relative will have to go on worrying that the DWP will be taking action, untill they either do or she asks them what's happening.
I suppose the cgoice is your and your relatives. -
Message 16
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
If the disabled relative mentioned the visit to Binky, and by doing so worried her enough to post here, I think she owes her the full story.
If Binky heard about from another source, then she has more of a problem and should forget about it, The worst that can happen (I think) is that the relation loses a bit of benefit for a while, and even then the CAB may be able to help sort it out so that no money is deducted. -
Message 17
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
I'm not now sure why I discribed the relation as a "she" as Binky was careful not to disclose the gender. Sorry.
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Message 18
Posted by Binky (U4657795) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
It *is* a she.
Relly has clammed up now and says 'it's all in hand, so not to worry.'
I think I'm being fobbed off. -
Message 19
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 28th December 2011
She probably doesn't want you to worry.
But of course you will. Unburdening half a problem onto someone then leaving them hanging in mid air is just going to leave them wondering what on earth is going on!
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