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Advice please - sulky teen
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Message 1.Â
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
This is an attempt at a serious thread!
I've got a flatmate here, he is a man I've known for over 20 years. There are Christian dimensions to the story but I'll leave those out and concentrate on the ordinary realities.
He is 64 years old and behaves like a sulky 16 year old. I have reason to believe he stopped developing at that age. He hasn't changed since I knew him first in 1991. He is full of sotto voce comments that he knows I can hear, taking the mickey, undermining me in ways he knows how (he knows my weak spots very well and plays on them), all that sort of thing.
He hasn't grown up, but I have. So I am in the position of having to father him into health. He is rebellious - an old hippy who has never accepted anyone else's authority. I hope that needs no further clarification. There are deeper spiritual issues at work but this isn't the place for those - I just need advice on how to deal with such a difficult person.
Yesterday I got heavy with him and as a result I have heard not a peep out of him this morning.
How do I father such a man into a more acceptable set of behaviours? I can't just stay being heavy all the time, it's tiring and spoils the atmos in my home. So far I have told him that while he is under my roof he will submit to my spiritual authority, which seems to have worked. But I need a way of finding a normal way of dealing with him, to try to help him over himself and into reality.
I have told him I want rent, R500 a month. He has the money. We shall see if that is forthcoming. Last night I thought of getting my attorney to write a rental contract but that may be over-egging it.
Could really do with some good advice from you guys. Need a bit of support and help dealing with this situation further.
Many thanks,
woof x -
Message 2
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
Woof, there is a huge difference between a 16 yr old behaving like a 16 yr old and someone of 64 behaving the same way.
The sulky, uncommunicative, awkward phase is a part of growing up. It involves pushing/setting boundaries and making the transition from childhood to adulthood. Most 16 yr olds are still at home which is usually (though by no means always) the safest place to experiment in this way. Most parents will girt their teeth and work their way through this phase. It is a sort of obligation that comes with parenthood.
You are not this man's father. You do not have to put up with this.
You have had your own problems and have worked to achieve the life you are (were?) now enjoying in S.A. I think that if this individual is spoiling the atmosphere in your home, it is time to tell him to roll up his hippy sleeping mat and find somewhere else to go.
He has money, so let him find his own place. That way the friendship stands a greater chance of lasting imho.
Dunlurkin -
Message 3
Posted by MrsGks (U14084771) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
Hi
Not sure how much I can help but one thing stood out
Last night I thought of getting my attorney to write a rental contract but that may be over-egging it. Â
Why would getting a contract be over-egging it? You are friends and I am assume that you don't want sharing a home to spoil the friendship. I woudl have thought having a contract would protect both you and him. when you have had the contract drawn up you could sit down with him, go through it and at the same time, it will give an opportunity to discuss your expections of how he treats you. Afterall, what happens if he doesn't pay the R500 rent?
I'm not a lawyer, it's just my take on it.
Good luck
MrsGks -
Message 4
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
My Internet is suddenly very slow today, I phoned the ISP and there is a problem they know about for overseas access, so I might not be back here for a bit - if I'm not, that'll be why.
Thanks for your replies. Back soon I hope.
woof x -
Message 5
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
The sulky, uncommunicative, awkward phase is a part of growing up. It involves pushing/setting boundaries and making the transition from childhood to adulthood. Most 16 yr olds are still at home which is usually (though by no means always) the safest place to experiment in this way.Â
My friend has to grow up some time or he will suffer loss come Domesday. I told you it's a Christian thing.
As I see it at the moment I am providing a safe place for my otherwise homeless-by-choice friend who has suddenly realised he likes his creature comforts, which are available in abundance here. I am providing him with a safe place where he can grow up. If I kick him out he will stay this way the rest of his life. If he is my brother in Christ, then I am my brother's keeper and God will help him here.
But if there isn't a buried kernel of faith there, if he is as he seems, just a demonic waster intent on ruining my life, then I will get rid of him, perhaps by force if necessary.
However I am giving him the benefit of the doubt at the moment. I just need basic tips on how to manage someone like this.
Today he is creeping around silently. He likes to do that - he likes to suddenly appear, in order to scare me.
I am quite happy otherwise - enjoying Cape Town - this is just the latest situation I have to deal with. -
Message 6
Posted by Jane (U1484860) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
Give him a deadline to move out.
I've done masses of house shares in the past (good, bad and totally horrible) and /very/ much having my space to myself.
If somone isn't bringing anything positive into your home, in fact they sound like they are disturbing its atmosphere and your peace, then why are you letting them stay?
Not for the money - you say you've not had any rent to date
Sounds like he thinks hes onto a good thing and the longer you let him carry on that way the harder it will be to get rid of him -
Message 7
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
Perhaps I had better make him sign a contract with a proviso that I can throw him out with two weeks' notice or whatever it is without giving a reason. Perhaps the poster upthread is right and I need to tie him up in a legal contract so I can use appropriate force to eject him should that prove necessary.
In the meantime he has serious personality issues, but insists he is completely OK. I am going to try to help him first, before I throw him out. He has got places to go - last winter he rented a room for R500 a month. I have found a counselling service he can go to. But first he has to realise he needs their help. This won't happen if I turf him out so I want to give him a chance before I eventually do that. You are right, he thinks he is taking advantage of me, and he probably is. But I can make it a condition of him staying here, that he get help for his personality problems.
Thanks
woof x -
Message 8
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
As you probably know, woof, I am an inveterate and incurable taker of people into my house. I am also a Christian and I hear what you are saying from that point of view. All the same my alarm bells are ringing. This does not sound a good situation. I would agree that, if you are going to let him stay at all, and I frankly don't think you should, having a contract, far from over-egging anything, is absolutely essential. Boundaries are lifesaving things because we can never get into another person's skin or world-view and so we can never be sure that their understanding is the same as ours.
A lot of words to say: be careful. -
Message 9
Posted by gigglemahanaz2 (U14257954) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
I agree with what everyone else says about a contract, although a Christian myself (not born again but Roman Catholic) I see like Drystan that your flatmates attitude would cause a prob, sounds like he's trying to get a rise from you because of your faith system more than anything else trying to push you into saying or doing something you'll regret!
My husband has let his late mother's flat out to a friend of his as the mate and his wife had a run in with the mates dad last year and needed somewhere fast, they couldn't afford the prices in Waterloo (south london) which vary from £980 for a stuido flat to £1,200/1,400 PCM for a one bed flat.
OH went to a solictor and got a tenancy agreement drawn up and the rent he's charging is £500 PCM for a 2 bed flat, all decorating and minor internal repairs are the tenants responsibility, they pay thier own bills and council tax................the second bedroom they can't use at the mo as OH is still using it for some storage so it's effectivly a 1 bed flat..........it came furnished as well.
I would suggest you get an agreement drawn up pronto and also make it clear the behaviour you want from this guy while he is living in your home and also let him be aware of what you DON'T want in terms of attitude and behaviour, you need to do this to protect and cover yourself if anything goes t*ts up with him.
At the end of the day hippy or not he's 64 years old and offically a pensioner for heavens sake............rebel by all means but don't sh*t on the doorstep of someone who is being good enough to give you a home and trying to help you.
I hope you don't take offence at the last part of this post love it's not ment to be nasty or offensive in anyway at all!
Good luck! -
Message 10
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Thursday, 29th March 2012
N.B. This post is addressed to Max. It is a statement of Christian faith. Anyone who is likely to feel at all offended, annoyed or damned by it, please scroll on by. Ta.
Max, he has taught me a profound lesson: that in his Passion and Death, Christ stood in solidarity with the damned.
Relax and allow death to take you. Do not resist its advances. Allow yourself to be vomited on. Stand and trust. No matter how bad it gets, there *is* a messiah.
Death comes. The final Enemy.
Without allowing Death to kiss you with its full embrace, you cannot enter fully into the Resurrection that Jesus has prepared for you.
So enter into Death and maybe tarry there awhile as you are buried with Jesus three days according to the Scriptures. You may learn something. Your standing whole and secure in Christ in Death will certainly be an eye-opener to anyone with eyes to see your witness (martyrion) to Christ. Believe in little, save Christ as Lord.
You get the occasional shocker but mostly I cope by remembering that everything that is unfolding within and without is merely the expression of the unfolding Word of God, as we experience it through time and creation, and the necessary straitenings of fallenness. Keep calm and carry on. Jesus goes before you.
Then you relax into the interplay of the Trinity and Creation.
Everything in Christ, Christ in everything. And I in Christ. All in Christ the Word speaking life through life unto the Father.
From the God the Father through Christ the Word in Creation in the Holy Spirit with Sophia, Lady Wisdom unto the Father.
One big song of life and praise to God.
I have just stood showing my friend how to operate the DVD player.
He likes technology and it's time he learnt how to play DVDs for himself.
God's Word and Wisdom flowed just now, tonight.
Does this make any sense to you?
I hope so.
God has resolved the situation in an entirely unexpected way.
"Jesus is Lord"
PS As I was showing my lodger the operation of the DVD player I remembered what Helga had told me and realised the time was from God. Helga said show an interest, show love, show an interest in their stuff. That's what the Lord did in me tonight and Helga was right about it. -
Message 11
Posted by the_shellgrottolady (U2395646) on Friday, 30th March 2012
Hey Woofti
Can't comment on your last post - I don't really understand it...but
hope you are not weakening in your resolve to do something about your friend.
I know it is good to help people who need it, but maybe it doesn't help them if you are too soft. Or you either.
Your friend is 64 and has reached this age. He may have got there by sponging off people (you say hippy - probably my own prejudice ...all that sharing stuff they preach when what they mean is you should give them stuff, food, attention fags without them giving anything back)
He should pay something towards the household and if it is to be a permenent arrangement you should certainly get some kind of contrqct.
But it sounds like he's driving you mad already..so do you really want this?
It is your life as well. Do you want to devote it to someone who is only a taker and pretends to be useless and hasn't learnt any social skills?
Maybe if you put your foot down and treat him as a 64 year old and stop making allowances for him , he will improve. More likely he'll think of some one else he can leech off.
Sorry if that's harsh - obviously can only go by what you said and my own views. You are not a saint and you are not jesus, just an ordinary mortal. If you are going to devote your life to a cause, why this person over everything else?
Perhaps you have some good answers to this. None of my business anyway - just wanted to help
Shell -
Message 12
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Friday, 30th March 2012
Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts.
The last post is supposed to mean that the way forward has revealed itself.
It was all terribly exciting.
I have got over the hard part now.
No problem. I have an arrangement with my lodger re rental.
There shouldn't be any problems any more. What happened was I confronted him with his behaviour and told him to stop it. He stopped it. After a day of silence he emerged chastened and sober and sensible. Proper relations have now been restored. Christian balance has prevailed. Last night we sat up watching "Moon Machines" which is a series of documentaries on the technology behind the moon landings.
I taught him how to play a DVD in the DVD player.
It is fine. I asked several people to pray into the situation and God answered the prayer with a simple and elegant solution.
God answers prayer, hey! Wow.
All is well at Shem Elohim now.
Thanks.
woof x -
Message 13
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Friday, 30th March 2012
In a way I do owe my lodger a debt of gratitude and a measure of keeping (as in "I am my brother's keeper"). Twenty-some years ago he taught me how to read and interpret the Bible from first principles. His teaching stood me in excellent stead when I went to Aberdeen to study theology. I found I had already received a thorough and complete theological education from my lodger, compatible with University theology, but in a different idiom. This man isn't just a useless hippy although there is that element to him. He is a thoughtful and intelligent man as well. Just highly eccentric, and I think his eccentricity (worsened by about fifteen years living rough in Cape Town's most exclusive beach suburb) just hadn't been smoothed out of him, he wasn't ready to live with someone. I also had to learn a few lessons in double-quick time since I've been alone most of my adult life as well.
We have established peaceful and friendly relations again. Better than before. We grok more deeply of each other now.
All is good.
woof x -
Message 14
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Things got worse again and I got more insight into what was going on, so I threw him out.
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Message 15
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
That sounds like the best solution for you, woof. The important thing is that you made assessed the situation and made the best decision for you.
Enjoy having your own space again.
Dunlurkin -
Message 16
Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
I would have thrown him out the minute he started playing up!
What was the final straw if you don't mind me asking? -
Message 17
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
When I realised he was a bad apple. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.
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Message 18
Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
I am none the wiser!!!
That could mean anything. -
Message 19
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) ** on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Sounds reasonable to me - I never did really see the point of "I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:38:45 RSV)
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Message 20
Posted by woofti aka groovy gravy (U1483210) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
I /could/ explain the whole situation theologically, but this isn't the place.
Titus 3:10-11 -
Message 21
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) ** on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
As long as you're OK, Woofti.
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Message 22
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
Woofti - just caught up with this ..
You have done your best for your friend - you have made the right decision.
Leave him to God's grace - pray for him if you can.
JPBS
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