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April Dog Club
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Thursday Next (U2257911) on Sunday, 1st April 2012
Welcome to the April Dog Club on this fine 1st April.
Hope all are well. The Griffons send wags and slurps to all. -
Message 2
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Sunday, 1st April 2012
Welcome to the April Dog Club on this fine 1st April.
Hope all are well. The Griffons send wags and slurps to all.Ìý Not long back from an overnight stay - the frist time leaving Mrs F alone with her knew knee!
Hadn't even realised it was April!
Just no hope for me I am afraid Thursday -
Message 3
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Sunday, 1st April 2012
Hope all dog clubbers have had the good weather we've enjoyed in the SW. Today saw me and OH plus dogs up on the cliffs just west of Tintagel this morning and along part of the Camel trail later, with a walk around Roadford Lake in the afternoon. Sun shining, birds singing and dogs exploring lots of new smells and places. Great. Haven't put the woolies and fleeces away as apparently it is going back to winter soon.
C -
Message 4
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Sunday, 1st April 2012
Hope all dog clubbers have had the good weather we've enjoyed in the SW. Today saw me and OH plus dogs up on the cliffs just west of Tintagel this morning and along part of the Camel trail later, with a walk around Roadford Lake in the afternoon. Sun shining, birds singing and dogs exploring lots of new smells and places. Great. Haven't put the woolies and fleeces away as apparently it is going back to winter soon.
C
Ìý Oh Lucky you what a lovely way to spend the day. I was in Northumberland Saturday and stayed B and B just outside f a smal village - so walked the short distance down to the crossroads for my solitary meal - n a lovely old pub called the Drovers which had a selection of very old prints of various droving dogs with scgraggy sheep on the walls - mostly water colours - and many of the dogs of uncertain ancestry I think!
It was freezing cold and I could not get a cell phone signal - so walked to the top of the hill in order to get a signal to wish Mrs F a goodnight after I had my steak and a few pints of excellant locally brewed ale!. Foolishly I wore only a shirt and trousers and the wind was keen to say the least - but their was no cloud in the sky and the absence of light polution made the
stars stand out in relief.
Back in my room I was wakened several times during the night by the sound of the B&B owners rather portly female Staffie which I had foolishly made much of on my arrival- and who decided to sleep outside my door and snore loudly most of the night!
Is there NO escape from dogs? -
Message 5
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Monday, 2nd April 2012
Glad you are back safe and sound and Mrs F managed without you Fellman.
Did you think you were in Newcastle - where the males we saw there before one Christmas seem to take pride in being out in shirtsleeves on a very cold night?!
Our pub was dog friendly, but the owners didn't seem to have one. My little x slept in our room - a first for him. He whined a bit because when he stays with my daughter he's allowed on the bed with her. But he did go back to his basket when told. Left the villain collie in the van, because he's unhappy in unfamiliar places. Left him with his thunder coat on and his quilted coat on top. I then thought in the night - what if he's too hot! I had left him with ventilation and water. He was of course fine when we let him out in the morning.
Any dog clubbers in Scotland? Heard this morning that some parts may get 4" of snow.
C -
Message 6
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Monday, 2nd April 2012
Today saw me and OH plus dogs up on the cliffs just west of Tintagel this morning and along part of the Camel trail later, with a walk around Roadford Lake in the afternoon.Ìý
Ha! Just missed you on both days, CW - not far from you on Saturday when we did a few hours on the moor in the pm around Rough Tor & Brown Willy, then down to Port Isaac for some sea air & fresh shellfish. Glorious, beautiful weather. Then, yesterday afternoon, off to Roadford for a good yomp & to give the mutts a swim. So many good walks there. -
Message 7
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Monday, 2nd April 2012
Glad you are back safe and sound and Mrs F managed without you Fellman.
Did you think you were in Newcastle - where the males we saw there before one Christmas seem to take pride in being out in shirtsleeves on a very cold night?!
Our pub was dog friendly, but the owners didn't seem to have one. My little x slept in our room - a first for him. He whined a bit because when he stays with my daughter he's allowed on the bed with her. But he did go back to his basket when told. Left the villain collie in the van, because he's unhappy in unfamiliar places. Left him with his thunder coat on and his quilted coat on top. I then thought in the night - what if he's too hot! I had left him with ventilation and water. He was of course fine when we let him out in the morning.
Any dog clubbers in Scotland? Heard this morning that some parts may get 4" of snow.
C
Ìý Why aye Constance ah did think ah was a Geordie l like pet! Not too far from Wor Ruthie's home town divn't ya knooo like - I was!
The young ladies of Newcastle wear equally less too - and I remember going to the Blaydon Working men's Club with Friends one Saturday night - and it had started to snow and round the corner came a party of ladies on a hen night all dressed in white undies (ok they wore thongs! with apols) and stockings - and nothing ese at all! I don;t know how the hyperthermia cases up there are so low! Butit certainly wared me up on a bitterly cold night!
And now I am doubly jealous of you and Thirsday being in such a lvely part of the world too
Enjoy -
Message 8
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Monday, 2nd April 2012
Constance, I was expecting it to be freezing this morning on the east coast of Scotland and went out looking a bit like Nanook of the North, but it was just mild and drizzly. We'll see what happens later today. I think the snow is to be mainly on high ground. Hope it stays there.
We went on a greyhound walk yesterday in glorious sunshine by a loch. The walks take place once a month. We always enjoy them and the hounds are happy to see other hounds.
It's been an amazing run of weather, but the schools are on holiday so obviously we can't expect much! -
Message 9
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Monday, 2nd April 2012
I've sometimes wondered if I'm ever walking past some inhabitant of ML. We didn't walk all around Roadford of course. We parked at the Centre and just strolled a bit round to the cob house and came back and ate a clotted cream ice cream. There were notices everywhere to keep dogs on leads, which we did. But last time I was there with a whole group of dog owners, we had them all running around together. Not sure if you can walk all the way round it. Would be a fair old hike.
Solwright - glad you haven't any snow and that the hounds enjoyed their run. Some breeds definitely seem to gain extra enjoyment when with others of the same breed it seems to me.
Fellman - I would have thought a gentleman like you would have averted his eyes at the sight of such scantily clad females, or offered your coat! Those youngsters will in later years look back on their fun and folly in the comfort of clothes bought for warmth and comfort - it comes to us all!
Now I have to have another good search for my purse. I thought it was in the house, but can't find it, and have looked in the van, but can't see it there and don't remember taking it out there. Last time I mislaid it (some years ago) I cancelled the cards and of course the purse showed up. When and if I find it this time, I will put one of those whistle things on it so it will answer when I whistle. Pity the dogs aren't trained to find it.
C -
Message 10
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Monday, 2nd April 2012
I've sometimes wondered if I'm ever walking past some inhabitant of ML. We didn't walk all around Roadford of course. We parked at the Centre and just strolled a bit round to the cob house and came back and ate a clotted cream ice cream. There were notices everywhere to keep dogs on leads, which we did. But last time I was there with a whole group of dog owners, we had them all running around together. Not sure if you can walk all the way round it. Would be a fair old hike.
Solwright - glad you haven't any snow and that the hounds enjoyed their run. Some breeds definitely seem to gain extra enjoyment when with others of the same breed it seems to me.
Fellman - I would have thought a gentleman like you would have averted his eyes at the sight of such scantily clad females, or offered your coat! Those youngsters will in later years look back on their fun and folly in the comfort of clothes bought for warmth and comfort - it comes to us all!
Now I have to have another good search for my purse. I thought it was in the house, but can't find it, and have looked in the van, but can't see it there and don't remember taking it out there. Last time I mislaid it (some years ago) I cancelled the cards and of course the purse showed up. When and if I find it this time, I will put one of those whistle things on it so it will answer when I whistle. Pity the dogs aren't trained to find it.
C
Ìý Me? A gentleman?
Perish the thought!
I did avert my gaze though - eventually!!
I had no coat to offer - when in Rome and all that! I had no wish to be thught a cissy!
But that was 4 years ago - and if it was tomorrow I would probably go out in my best climbing jacket, scarf - and daft hat!! Yes it comes to us all and with blood the viscosity of chip shop vinegar these days - I am only too well aware of it!
Hope you find your purse BTW -
Message 11
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Morning all - what are your views on this?
Seems the couple can't really be interested in dog welfare, to say nothing about their children and the people giving up their dogs to them didn't do any checks.
Fancy living next door to that for any length of time - the noise and smell!
Hope you all have a good dog day.
C -
Message 12
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Well, the snow has arrived, Constance. There's a thin covering everywhere, although here near the coast it's turning slushy.
Sunday afternoon was spent sitting out in the garden so it's quite a contrast. It's still falling, but more sleety, and I can't see it lasting long.
The dogs looked quite surprised when I opened the front door! -
Message 13
Posted by Lilo (U12007400) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Morning all from a sunny, warming up by the second, south coast where smug people live with their poodles...
I'm off newspaper reports at the moment, because we had a scare locally, with the Daily Mail running a story about dog poisoning, I saw the Community Warden yesterday and he reassured us all it wasn't true.
I've been up most of the night with Isaac who is now sleeping peacefully on his green blankie on the sofa. He didn't do a poo all day yesterday (ah! April poo talk) so I walked him four times, took him outside four more before bed, and of course, all night he's fidgeting about wanting to go outside to eat grass while I shivered on the doorstep in my nightie.
At one point I heard the chunder noise, leapt out, grabbed the kitchen roll by the bed (be prepared) and shoved a piece under his nose to catch it. He had the audacity to actually growl at me! In no uncertain terms he got the message that if I want to clear it up I blummin well will, so get back to bed mister and be quiet!
Then, having found a puddle in the kitchen (hmm) I took them to the field at 7 and watched the sun rise. We saw the beautiful saluki cross who reminds me so much of my much missed Zeddy.
Also The Viking was doing a snore fest, so Murph and I have bags under our eyes and a very short fuse.
I think a "play group" session will be booked with Auntie T this week! I need some peace for a couple of hours.
rarr -
Message 14
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Morning all - what are your views on this?
Seems the couple can't really be interested in dog welfare, to say nothing about their children and the people giving up their dogs to them didn't do any checks.
Fancy living next door to that for any length of time - the noise and smell!
Hope you all have a good dog day.
C
Ìý Read about this yesterday Constance - difficut to understand but my American counterparts are quite used to this scenario which over there is termed 'hoarding' and is apparantly treated as a mental condition. (only in America!!).
But it does have potential consequences for them - and for us too if the Animal Rights people start to make an issue here from this - as they do in the States.
It apparantly centres aroud the question of how many dogs consitute a 'hoarding'?
Two? Three? - or 62 -0r 63?
Some of us think it normal to share our lives with 6 because we have ample time and space to do so - for some a case could be made that one dog has insufficient time and space.
Our Colonial Cousins are attempting to fight this - as they always do - by invoking their Constituional Rights - which most of them believe allows them to do pretty much everything in life they may wish to do!
But we don;t have such a fall back position - and should the mental condition 'doctrine' - spread here, will we see dogs siezed on little more evidence that there is more than one canine at an address never to be returned to owners thought ot have a mental condition called 'hoarding' - even though their dogs are happy and healthy?
We live in interesting tiimes! -
Message 15
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Well, the snow has arrived, Constance. There's a thin covering everywhere, although here near the coast it's turning slushy.
Sunday afternoon was spent sitting out in the garden so it's quite a contrast. It's still falling, but more sleety, and I can't see it lasting long.
The dogs looked quite surprised when I opened the front door!Ìý Just keep it up there with you please Solwright!
We had some rain last night and the almost forgotten the 'pleasure' of drying the dogs after their last 'visit' outside before bed.
It may even have been the first experience of that for Drew as he was too young the last time it rained to allow him to get wet.
The task was made harder because Mrs F despatched me earlier yesterday evening to the shop to buy some Champers as Neil had sent a mail with a copy of Julia's 12 week scan yesterday and several glasses thereof does not make for ease in bending over we dogs!
My first grandchild already has my nose - and tummy it seems - although my tummy is shrinking visibly!! -
Message 16
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
No, no, Fellman. Share and share alike! It will be moving south soon, I hope.
If you're hitting the champers at the twelve week scan, what will you be like when the baby is born?! -
Message 17
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
No, no, Fellman. Share and share alike! It will be moving south soon, I hope.
If you're hitting the champers at the twelve week scan, what will you be like when the baby is born?!Ìý Any excuse for Mrs F Solwright - as Champers is all she can have without falling over and there are not too many things to celebrate - so he consumption is minmal (and I prefer a real ale or a nice malt - preferably from your part of the world - a Speyside - but some of the Highland Malts are - err acceptable!
But yes I wonder how I will be when the baby is born - as I never thought I would ever be a grandfather and thought I would be blaise about it!
Normally would be happy to share - anything but not snow! Although the dogs love it -
Message 18
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Fellman, it's certainly something to celebrate. I'll become a great-auntie, all going well, next month. It'll be lovely.
My Swedish visitors very much enjoyed a lovely Speyside malt given to me at Christmas by my brother, who's a member of the Whisky Society. We took the bottle to Ullapool. It's one of only 244 bottles of this particular single malt, according to the label. They said it was the best they'd ever tasted.
All dogs love the snow, don't they. Today's is rather wet though, and it's melting rapidly in this area.
Re the newspaper article posted by Constance: 56 large dogs and other pets in an ordinary house where children also live is a problem which has to be dealt with, for the welfare of all concerned and particularly the children. The reference to hoarding is interesting. Some people seem to have a compulsion to keep acquiring stuff making their home unlivable. I wonder if it's the same for people who collect animals. -
Message 19
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Solwright - I'm happy that you keep the snow to your good self. My collie likes it, but the half Chinese Crested doesn't.
Lilo - hope you and the dogs get a good night sleep without any chundering and are not disturbed by snores, human or dog. BTW can you see Fawley oil refinery from your vantage point - that is if it is still there?
Fellman - how exciting , I'm sure a scan helps the dad and grandparents feel it is all real. More than 30 years ago, when expecting my second the doctor asked if he could try out this new machine they had on trial. That was the only time I had a scan and there certainly wasn't a print out. They did try to explain which grainy bit was which; though I do remember seeing the heart beating. For the mum it becomes all too real when the sprog's elbows and feet get you in the ribs or stick out. I'm with you on whisky over champers too.
As for the Somerset story and hoarding dogs - I think really people don't think it all through and believe they are doing a Good Thing by 'rescuing' these dogs.Maybe they get a kick out of the doing a Good Thing and are in denial over the reality of the care they are actually giving. Even if they'd had lovely heated kennels and lots of fields to run in, a couple can't really give that many dogs the life they should have and I doubt they could afford to feed them well and give them all the medications they need. It's not even giving them a true pack life as I don't think natural packs ever get that big. Must admit hadn't seen it as a compulsive hoarding thing. A friend has a neighbour whose house is piled high with old newspapers and he collects Mondeo cars in his front garden too.
C -
Message 20
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Fellman, it's certainly something to celebrate. I'll become a great-auntie, all going well, next month. It'll be lovely.
My Swedish visitors very much enjoyed a lovely Speyside malt given to me at Christmas by my brother, who's a member of the Whisky Society. We took the bottle to Ullapool. It's one of only 244 bottles of this particular single malt, according to the label. They said it was the best they'd ever tasted.
All dogs love the snow, don't they. Today's is rather wet though, and it's melting rapidly in this area.
Re the newspaper article posted by Constance: 56 large dogs and other pets in an ordinary house where children also live is a problem which has to be dealt with, for the welfare of all concerned and particularly the children. The reference to hoarding is interesting. Some people seem to have a compulsion to keep acquiring stuff making their home unlivable. I wonder if it's the same for people who collect animals. Ìý Yes Solwright and Constance I have to agree with the sentiments of you both.
I have never kept more than the number I have now - and have never kennelled the dogs - so they live with me and share in everythng i do - But if the numbers increasd by just a fraction more - I am not sure that any of the then numbers would gain any advantage - and even though I love having dogs around me - i would not want any more to care for and be SURE that their best interests are put first.
I am not too sure if hoarding of animals is in the same league as hoarding newspapers - and I am not even sure it should be classed a a mental problem in the same way.
But our Colonial Cousins do seem to have a compuslion far their having to be a clearly defined reason to validate everything which happens in life.
Back in 68 I visited the first BIG kennel of Shelties I ever saw
I stood outside in the driveway - awaiting audience11- and in two large runs - and a smaller adjoing one I counted 125 breeding bitches. In another run were 10 stud dogs - and old age pensioners of an indeterminate number occupied the house we never got to see the loose boxes in which there were bitches with litters!
Those days of big kennels ae largely gone thankfully - and most keep dogs to show as Thursday and I do. But I mention this because in the conservatory of this dwelling with all the dogs - I have just remebered were stacks and stacks of old newspapers - which at the time I naively thought were for 'puppy accidents or training' perhaps I was wrong - and there is a connection?
Oh and good luck on being a GA -
Message 21
Posted by Thursday Next (U2257911) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Someone in my breed recently had her first litter of pups. Originally she talked of exporting two of the three pups, the latest I have heard is that she says she is going to keep all three pups and carry on breeding in future. That sounds absolutely crazy to me. I really don't see how you can hope to socialise and train three puppies all at the same time. I spend an awful lot of time with my young puppies just as Fellman does. How can you give individual time to each of them when there are three at the same age?
I think some of the hoarders start off with the best of intentions but then it gets all out of hand and then they get ashamed of admitting that they can't cope and letting others know about the mess they have got themselves into. -
Message 22
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
I think you are right Thursday, you can't possibly do such a good job with 3 pups. I always think a good breeder won't sell anyone 2 pups from the same litter either for the same reason. A friend of mine got her last collie from a well known breeder who never sold more than one pup to a person. I've had conversations with people who said they were thinking about getting 2 pups as they 'would be good company for each other'. I hope I gave them food for thought.
There are a few exceptions. I know an agility couple who have bred their own dogs and kept 2 from a litter, but they both had a pup each and worked hard with their own pups, so the ratio was still one to one. And they are very dedicated to training and competing.
I think you are right too about people biting off more they can chew and not wanting to own up to not managing; of course they must always reach a point when the failure to care becomes catastrophic. I also felt sorry for the child(ren) in this case and the poor neighbours. Dirigibles sister thinks she has problems! (Yes she does, but how much worse it could have been).
BTW no snow, but it is now raining here - which is good as my sand dog playground is very dry, as is the garden.
C -
Message 23
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Popping in here...
The captain of the flyball team we joined a few years ago had several dogs. She competed herself in a different team which won last year at Crufts (not sure about this year).
She was scathing about the idea of training pet dogs to compete. Her own dogs were (so far as we could tell) more or less kennelled and kept a bit like dressage horses - cooped up until they were needed. We lesser mortals noticed that the top dogs weren't very nice to know; some had to be muzzled until they ran.
I think we all decided that we preferred our dogs as they were; part of the family, and hang the ribbons. -
Message 24
Posted by Thursday Next (U2257911) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
I did once keep two from the same litter. I had taken Pumpkin to Belgium to mate her just after pet passport came in and had a lovely litter of 5 pups. I kept a dog and a bitch and I did manage to do what I wanted to do but it was extremely hard work. I took one to obedience classes at one club, the other went to puppy class at a different place so I was only taking out one at a time. They went separately to ring craft, I took them out to socialise them one at a time and basically took an awful lot of time and effort on them. It was successful but it was extremely hard work and I wouldn't chose to do it again.
The sad thing is I know this woman will not do the work and the three will become much more bonded to each other than to any humans. I won't be saying anything though. She knows everything far better than anyone else and is also extremely touchy. -
Message 25
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
I think the captain of the flyball team is talking nonsense. It depends I suppose on the definition of a pet dog, but it's more about how the handler conducts the training rather than just the dog.
Mary Ray keeps her dogs as part of her family, they are nice dogs and fantastic competitors. Most of the successful dogs I know in agility are very much part of their owners' lives. Yes the discipline for training the dogs has to be more for competing dogs, but they can still be nice pets and have fun.
My little dog did quite well in agility, but it's much more important to me that he is a great little companion.
C -
Message 26
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Thursday - I doubt many people would put in the effort you did. They would think it easier for them to treat 2 pups as one entity, then wonder why they don't have that close bond and the dogs don't really pay them too much attention. You took the time and considerable trouble to make sure those 2 of yours got what was needed - I doubt if many others would do the same.
So if that breeder wants to keep all three that's up to her of course. Wonder if in the future she will even admit to herself that it perhaps wasn't the wisest thing to do? Or maybe she will be happy with the dogs relating more to each other than her? Different people, different expectations.
C -
Message 27
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
Flyball is different from agility; the dogs need to be totally keyed up, maybe a bit loony too... some certainly seemed quite aggressive at times
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Message 28
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Tuesday, 3rd April 2012
I think you are right Thursday, you can't possibly do such a good job with 3 pups. I always think a good breeder won't sell anyone 2 pups from the same litter either for the same reason. A friend of mine got her last collie from a well known breeder who never sold more than one pup to a person. I've had conversations with people who said they were thinking about getting 2 pups as they 'would be good company for each other'. I hope I gave them food for thought.
There are a few exceptions. I know an agility couple who have bred their own dogs and kept 2 from a litter, but they both had a pup each and worked hard with their own pups, so the ratio was still one to one. And they are very dedicated to training and competing.
I think you are right too about people biting off more they can chew and not wanting to own up to not managing; of course they must always reach a point when the failure to care becomes catastrophic. I also felt sorry for the child(ren) in this case and the poor neighbours. Dirigibles sister thinks she has problems! (Yes she does, but how much worse it could have been).
BTW no snow, but it is now raining here - which is good as my sand dog playground is very dry, as is the garden.
C
Ìý OOps showing my being a bad dreeder agin Constance and Thursday
Freya and Isl are litter sisters and I 'allowed' mrs F tp persuade me that both should stay (There was littl to choose between them - and she had fallen in love with isla.
My fears - which I share - with both of you were completely unfounded - and they are great together - and with us Surprising me really - but I am lucky and it could all have gone horribly wrong as I have seen in ther kennels
Flyball! Hmmm I like most activities we 'subject' our dogs too- but fleball does worry me I admit.
I think the dogs are hyper verging on the hysterical and I used to have a good friend - known to all as Pat the Hat because she always wore a trilby or a straw hat - and was buried wearing the straw hat! - who made a considerable amount of money putting flyball dogs back in working order. She had been in a previous life the vetinerary nurse at Blackpool Circus and she was a brilliant 'manipulator' and healer of lihament damage.
I can well believe they are kept like dressage horses and I think they must be fed on high octane rocket fuel
I would not like to live with one - that is for certain! -
Message 29
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
At the level we did flyball it wasn't too bad, but looking at the top level dogs made me realise we'd never make it to Crufts. It was a good sport for Mr Lark who can't walk far and is competitive: he could not move enough to do agility. I'm working towards being able to stand in the middle of the course, waving my arms around and barking commands, but we have a long, long way to go!
-
Message 30
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Adding to that, I know of farmers who seem to think their dogs will cease to work well if they are invited into the house to live as part of the family. Fortunately, there are others who can prove this isn't so....I happen to live next to one.
-
Message 31
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
But you are an experienced dog man Fellman, so I expect you and Mrs F did all the right things without thinking about it; and it does also depend on the pups' nature of course. Many people would struggle, unless they were lucky - but what we each want as an outcome differs a lot I think.
Skylark - I'm sure you're right and that the excitement level for a top flyball dog needs to be in the stratosphere. Some agility dogs are very wound up too; but with agility the basis for all of it is speed with control. With flyball there doesn't seem to be the control element. Mostly because the course is always the same! I think I see flyball like sudoku - the answer is always the same; the course is always down over the hurdles, get the ball and come back! My first agility dog, a sprollie, would have enjoyed flyball occasionally I feel. No-one round here does it, so I never got to try it.
There are quite a few agility handlers who can't run - a few are in wheelchairs, so not being able to run isn't necessarily a requirement. But it is harder to train the dog. I certainly can't run as much as I used to, but even the fittest person can't run as fast as a dog, so teaching the dog how to do each element is important then you can cut corners and just be in the key places at the right time. Well, that's the aim! -
Message 32
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
If I try to cut corners in agility I often end up colliding with Ben, Constance, and entertain the watchers with a sort of dance. He is very fast which is why I've persuaded a young fit man to try running him.
Ben didn't start agility until he was about six and although it is often said that you can teach an old collie new tricks, I am not a collie! -
Message 33
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
The same issue arises with working dogs in the shooting field.
You get some people saying that a working dog must live outside, in a kennel & run; that it must receive minimal human attention other than during its exercise / training sessions, so that it works harder to 'win' praise.
Utter codswallop.
I've seen excellent working dogs that live indoors as household pets, and abysmal working dogs that live outside as described above.
Whether a dog works well in the field has sod all to do with whether it lives in a kennel or a kitchen, and everything to do with how well it is trained. And I am sure the same is true of working sheep dogs, agility dogs, sniffer dogs and so on. -
Message 34
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
At the level we did flyball it wasn't too bad, but looking at the top level dogs made me realise we'd never make it to Crufts. It was a good sport for Mr Lark who can't walk far and is competitive: he could not move enough to do agility. I'm working towards being able to stand in the middle of the course, waving my arms around and barking commands, but we have a long, long way to go!Ìý Love your approach to this Skylark!
I suppose obsessiveness and exageration bother me. I see this in almost every activity involving dogs; almost an 'if some is good then more must be better' and if more is better then we had better select dogs that give us more.
I never saw the intensity when flyball hit the scene - as I see it now. I used to see dogs in obedience who were thought to be obedient walking with their noses 2 " from the handler's knee - I now see dogs walking withtheir fromt end wrapped around their handlers legs like a hobble - and gazing up their nostrils the while - which would have been faulted years ago. And just so i don;t stand accused of letting the show side off lightly - I see all manner of fancy twirls when dogs are being moved and ladies and some men!! striking poses which any model agency would approve of -when the process is so simple - the judge wants to see how the dog moves and stands - not some pseudo audition for the Blshoi Ballet or practice for America's Next Top Model.!
I was told when I handled GSD that the owner paid for the judge to be shown the dog by the handler - not for the handler to outshine the dog. Not particularly known for my sartorial elegance when showing my dogs I stand in wonderment when everyone's eyes are drawn to the Saville Row suits sported by some gentleman in the ring - and the Dior- like fashions worn by some ladies - and sorry Constance - I return to the theme - some of the lap danceresque outfits of the usually, but not excusively younger and foolish!
AND I agree totally about the old wives tail that working dogs need to be treated little better - than Japanese prisoners of war in order to work the better. I have known many really good dogs who go about their work with quiet assurance - who never moved from a hearth - unless the shepherd did.
Dogs either have the ability = or they don't - in whatever discipline. I know this is may be old fashioned nonsense - but I can't help but think the extravigances of some handlers are designed to draw attention away from the inadequacies of the dog - rater than to compliment them!
Oh I feel so much better clearng my chest - despite the most foul weather outside! -
Message 35
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
But you are an experienced dog man Fellman, so I expect you and Mrs F did all the right things without thinking about it; and it does also depend on the pups' nature of course. Many people would struggle, unless they were lucky - but what we each want as an outcome differs a lot I think.
Skylark - I'm sure you're right and that the excitement level for a top flyball dog needs to be in the stratosphere. Some agility dogs are very wound up too; but with agility the basis for all of it is speed with control. With flyball there doesn't seem to be the control element. Mostly because the course is always the same! I think I see flyball like sudoku - the answer is always the same; the course is always down over the hurdles, get the ball and come back! My first agility dog, a sprollie, would have enjoyed flyball occasionally I feel. No-one round here does it, so I never got to try it.
There are quite a few agility handlers who can't run - a few are in wheelchairs, so not being able to run isn't necessarily a requirement. But it is harder to train the dog. I certainly can't run as much as I used to, but even the fittest person can't run as fast as a dog, so teaching the dog how to do each element is important then you can cut corners and just be in the key places at the right time. Well, that's the aim!Ìý You do me too much honour Constance!!
But I suppose you are right in that a life time with dogs is a little like ridng a bike - it all happens wthout conscious effort to stay on the contraption!
also agree with you when you say that our aspirations differ a lot. but personally the thought of constant sibling rivalry to contend with - would have me reaching for a bottle of the Glen Livet! -
Message 36
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
The same issue arises with working dogs in the shooting field.
You get some people saying that a working dog must live outside, in a kennel & run; that it must receive minimal human attention other than during its exercise / training sessions, so that it works harder to 'win' praise.
Utter codswallop.
I've seen excellent working dogs that live indoors as household pets, and abysmal working dogs that live outside as described above.
Whether a dog works well in the field has sod all to do with whether it lives in a kennel or a kitchen, and everything to do with how well it is trained. And I am sure the same is true of working sheep dogs, agility dogs, sniffer dogs and so on. Ìý Really couldn't agree with you more Mustafa.
I think consigning working dogs of any denomination to a life of confinement has more to do with shiny kitchen floors and hair free carpets - than to effect any improvement in performance.
But I am a softie who encourafed a fell pony to come into the farm kitchen every morning for his slice of toast!
Over the years I have visited so many kennels and seen row after row of beautiful dogs in breeds not imediately thought of as being runbustuous and hardy - peering out through weld mesh at me in hope of attention and companionship and others with expressions which portrayed their acceptance of a life of penile servitude. As a judge the latter stand out like sore thumbs when I make my final perambulation of the ring before placing. Their eues are somehow blank and devoid of interest and their whole body langauae is one of resigned compliance.
Of course the less inteligent dogs (read totally hyper) seem incapable of the finer feelings which a dog who is at ease with all the important aspects of his life show naturally. -
Message 37
Posted by Thursday Next (U2257911) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Some of the show dogs who get little/no attention at home do sparkle in the ring - it is the only time mum/dad pays any attention to them and they are out in the wide world and it is exciting. However, if that is what it took to win I would rather not win. Actually though, it isn't necessary to do that to get your dog to sparkle, it is just necessary to make shows and a show ring fun places to be.
I love watching the junior handlers and seeing the antics they go through to avoid being between judge and dogs. Some of them carry out the most complicated dance routines, skipping from one foot to the other and stepping from one side of the dog to the other, often wearing skirt suits which are both too tight and too short to really look good in the ring.
I do try to look smart in the ring but wouldn't want to try and outdo my dog. I am also very particular what I wear when I judge and spend a long time selecting the correct (usually new) outfit to wear but it must be something that once I have put it on it can then be totally forgotten whilst concentrating on the dogs. I can't have a scarf or necklace that would fall into the dog's face when I bend over it, or a jacket or trousers that need adjusting after sitting down or bending down. -
Message 38
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
A couple I know acquired two dogs which they began to show. I was pretty horrified to learn that they are not allowed to go swimming in the stream- I'm sure their old mongrel did!
A friend has a dog which won his class at Crufts last year. She shows him a lot but has always said he is first a pet, secondly a show dog: she never stops him behaving like a dog. Unfortunately he has been attacked three times by other dogs, getting scarred each time. I don't think the marks and stitches have affected his showing, but she is getting worried about her dog's confidence. The strange thing is that every single one of the attacking dogs has been a labrador. -
Message 39
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
I should have mentioned that the labradors were different dogs belonging to different people - strange I thought because I've never thought of that breed as aggressive. The dog they went for is large but a gentle, senstive chap who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
-
Message 40
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Hi Skylark,
I have a theory that a gentle entire male could have low social standing and other, often entire males, but not always, who view themselves as of higher status will pick on the gentle one as they view it as a threat they can deal with. A friend used to have a lovely gentle entire GSD that was always being picked on. I think had he been neutered those other dogs would have ignored him. Others may think differently!
An agility trainer I knew had holiday cottages at his place and once had a booking from someone who had a standard poodle that qualified for Crufts that year. The dog was allowed to roam around, get muddy and had a fair old time. I think their view was he could always be washed off. Good attitude IMO.
Apropos of nothing in particular - but while out on my second group walk this morning I watched a deer jump down one bank across the lane and up the opposite bank. When I looked to see where it had gone, there were 3 of them. We had a staring contest - they won - I left them to it. A lovely few minutes though.
C -
Message 41
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
I've only really seen showing on TV, but do wonder at some of the outfits worn by the handlers and their ability to move also. As a woman, I think if I had to run with my dog, I would have sensible, smart comfortable shoes and smart but plain trousers and top. One woman I saw on Crufts this year with I think it was a terrier, due to infirmity, could only hobble along. Didn't think she would be able to show her dog's paces that well, but she was a class winner - so what do I know.
Watching others is always amusing. Agility competitors often say we must look like right plonkers as we walk the courses. Especially when you start to rehearse turns, arm signals etc. Any aliens landing at such a place would instantly take off again and mark Earth as completely bonkers!
C -
Message 42
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
A couple I know acquired two dogs which they began to show. I was pretty horrified to learn that they are not allowed to go swimming in the stream- I'm sure their old mongrel did!
A friend has a dog which won his class at Crufts last year. She shows him a lot but has always said he is first a pet, secondly a show dog: she never stops him behaving like a dog. Unfortunately he has been attacked three times by other dogs, getting scarred each time. I don't think the marks and stitches have affected his showing, but she is getting worried about her dog's confidence. The strange thing is that every single one of the attacking dogs has been a labrador.Ìý Hi Skylark - those are exactly the words i use!
We entertained a sheltie breeder from Germany several years ago and I asked if she wanted to come with me and the dogs for our morning walk.
Sh was completely horrified at my mob running through a gap in the hedge at full pelt leaving hairy evidence of their passing - and ploughing through the mud and leaping fallen trees in the wwods. Aparantly her dogs were onfined all dat - so they would not damage their 'lovely coats'. I couldn't get her to realise that the adb vantages mine had far ouweighed the loss of a very few hairs!
Labs
Quitea number of years ago the Alsatioleague of GB commisioned astudy 0 - being sic of ever dog bite reported in the media being by a GSD
It was a two year study and incolved the casualtu departments in a number of representative hospitals asking bite victims - what sort of dog had inflicted the wound.
Labs cam out top of the pops by quite some distance. Now statstics can prove what you want - and registrations of labs have been easily the highest for as any years as I can remember so statstically they may show up the most. BUT I think the survey showed us that not all Labs can be seen as the universally benigne dogs of our imaginings - and it may well be that they are given a more sympathetic press than some others.
I attended a show at Malvern a lot of years ago where a yellow lab lunged from its bench and pulled in a pasing child I know not what the child had done
And when Crufts was held in Olympia i was bitten for the first and only time in a rather embarassing place - by a Borde Collie who jumped down from his bench and ran 20 yards to do so!! Oh and the dog won the Obedience title that year and was so obedient his owner never attached him to his bench! -
Message 43
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Some of the show dogs who get little/no attention at home do sparkle in the ring - it is the only time mum/dad pays any attention to them and they are out in the wide world and it is exciting. However, if that is what it took to win I would rather not win. Actually though, it isn't necessary to do that to get your dog to sparkle, it is just necessary to make shows and a show ring fun places to be.
I love watching the junior handlers and seeing the antics they go through to avoid being between judge and dogs. Some of them carry out the most complicated dance routines, skipping from one foot to the other and stepping from one side of the dog to the other, often wearing skirt suits which are both too tight and too short to really look good in the ring.
I do try to look smart in the ring but wouldn't want to try and outdo my dog. I am also very particular what I wear when I judge and spend a long time selecting the correct (usually new) outfit to wear but it must be something that once I have put it on it can then be totally forgotten whilst concentrating on the dogs. I can't have a scarf or necklace that would fall into the dog's face when I bend over it, or a jacket or trousers that need adjusting after sitting down or bending down. Ìý I have forgotten - or don;t know which breed you have Mustafa - and speak of free standing rather than 'stacked' dogs and can easil see that the personal contact involved in stacking may well bring about alomost euphoria in a dog not used to that as a matter of course. And of course and perhaps thankfully some breeds do not have the same highly devloped respose to kindness mechanism as thers and seeed to be endowed ssit an amazing stoicism.
I am a dinasaur - and proud of it and when I think f the number of junior handlers who have graced our rings some as you say far from fittingly dressed for the occasion - and then never seen again in uper teen age group - I wonder at the value we get from staging the event.
There is no doubt that most of the junior handlers feel they and their OTT manuvers are on show - rather than the dog - and sadly some of the judges seem to agree with that sentiment -
Message 44
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
I've only really seen showing on TV, but do wonder at some of the outfits worn by the handlers and their ability to move also. As a woman, I think if I had to run with my dog, I would have sensible, smart comfortable shoes and smart but plain trousers and top. One woman I saw on Crufts this year with I think it was a terrier, due to infirmity, could only hobble along. Didn't think she would be able to show her dog's paces that well, but she was a class winner - so what do I know.
Watching others is always amusing. Agility competitors often say we must look like right plonkers as we walk the courses. Especially when you start to rehearse turns, arm signals etc. Any aliens landing at such a place would instantly take off again and mark Earth as completely bonkers!
C
Ìý I have seen some amazing sights down the years in the ring Constance - espeially judging overseas!
In Malmo 4 years ago at their equivalmt of |Crufts held outside - I judged in torrential rain all day and then retitred to the ring side awnng to protect watching judges from the eleents
Th Toy group was a revelation !
A fragrant lady appeared with a peke - direct - I swear from the film set of Gone With the Wind.
A flouncy white ground sweeping lacy dress showing much heaving bosom after her exertion of walking in the ring with the constraints of tight corset which gave her a waist I could have esily spanned with my hands and holding a small umberella atop her ringlets!
A minion (toy boy) arrived in the ring with an incongruous golfing umbrella whenever she stood still!
On a very hot summer's day i judged Working and pastoral group in your neck of the woods
and The lady dobe handler appeared in a tiny bikini top and and cut off denilm shorts. I was envious clad in darksuit and sporting a tie! ( not that I am used to wearing ladies apparal of course)
She set off to lap the ring and such was the speed she moved - centrifugal force of gravity took control and when she effected a most smart and high speed left turn in the corner - most of her body complide - except her err bosoms which carried on in a straight line freed from any constraint!
As did she aparantly - or maybe not - unawar of her state of undress And this time i did have the courtesy to glance away as she came to a 'shuddering' halt in front of me amidst much applause from the male members of the ringside who didn;t have lady on their arm - of course!! -
Message 45
Posted by Constance (U14594138) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Fellman - that did make me laugh! Perhaps agility is not the only funny spectator dog sport then!
Wonder if I know the Dobe lady owner. There used to be a very presentable lady Dobe owner who showed and did obedience in the SW.
No wonder you like judging!
I've never had that kind of experience when judging - have had someone fall over, but that's not too uncommon when people run and turn on grass, especially as most competitions start at 8.30am which means dew can still be present.
C -
Message 46
Posted by fellman (U14848647) on Wednesday, 4th April 2012
Fellman - that did make me laugh! Perhaps agility is not the only funny spectator dog sport then!
Wonder if I know the Dobe lady owner. There used to be a very presentable lady Dobe owner who showed and did obedience in the SW.
No wonder you like judging!
I've never had that kind of experience when judging - have had someone fall over, but that's not too uncommon when people run and turn on grass, especially as most competitions start at 8.30am which means dew can still be present.
C
Ìý Actually Constance I am more of a leg man, being partial to a well turned ankle - but in these days of trouser suits and jeans - my preference is not really catered for as they are as rare as rocking horse droppings!!
Don;t know the lady in question but she was a very err athletic tanned looking lady with shortish blonde hair - See I did notice more than the obvious.
I really don't know how you agilty folk actually stay on your feet you have my admiration -
Message 47
Posted by Lilo (U12007400) on Thursday, 5th April 2012
My silence this week is good. Nothing in particular to report about Isaac because he's behaving like a fairly normal dog.
Today they're both off to Auntie T's "play group". Sounds silly, but dogs go round her house to let off steam, play with lots of others, and she does mind games. Isaac will probably sit and observe, and Murph will be showing them all what to do! A couple of hours peace and quiet for mama as well. Isaac is learning how to behave like a young energetic boy, and how! -
Message 48
Posted by Dapply (U2437462) on Thursday, 5th April 2012
On a very hot summer's day i judged Working and pastoral group in your neck of the woods
and The lady dobe handler appeared in a tiny bikini top and and cut off denilm shorts. I was envious clad in darksuit and sporting a tie! ( not that I am used to wearing ladies apparal of course)
She set off to lap the ring and such was the speed she moved - centrifugal force of gravity took control and when she effected a most smart and high speed left turn in the corner - most of her body complide - except her err bosoms which carried on in a straight line freed from any constraint!
As did she aparantly - or maybe not - unawar of her state of undress And this time i did have the courtesy to glance away as she came to a 'shuddering' halt in front of me amidst much applause from the male members of the ringside who didn;t have lady on their arm - of course!!Ìý
And er the question is:-
Did she get a good placing (if you know what I mean fnarr fnarr) -
Message 49
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Thursday, 5th April 2012
That's good news, Lilo. And playgroup is a great idea, for them and you!
It's eleven weeks since my dog's bladder operation and she is so much better. Again, more like a normal dog. -
Message 50
Posted by Thursday Next (U2257911) on Thursday, 5th April 2012
Solwright, that is excellent news.
Fellman, can you remember what the Dobe's movement was like?
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