Messageboard
The Village HallÌý permalink
Otherwise: Unhappy families
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
For reasons that I won't go into in detail, I wondered whether anyone here has any thoughts or research on whether generalised discontent/mild depression runs in families. Is it an inherited genetic tendency or could it be learned behaviour?
I ask because someone I've known for 20 years and more, who in the last few years has changed her life drastically to get what she wants so that she can be happy, is *still* suffering from a deep sense of discontent and is back on mild anti-depressants yet again. I know this woman's mother and she is just like her daughter. I suspect they reinforce each other's constant longing for a change of scenery/life/partner they seem to think will make them happy. But it doesn't because as soon as they've moved or remarried or whatever they're discontent again.
I was struck, meeting the daughter this weekend, by the generally negative way she sees life. That may be understandable given that she's currently off work with mild depression (taking a very low dose of anti-depressants). I began to wonder whether CBT would be good for her because I suspect it's the way she thinks and sees things (possibly inculcated by her mother) that is making life more difficult than it need be. If anyone with knowledge of CBT can be bothered to read and respond, I would be interested. Not that I wouldn't be interested in other responses too! -
Message 2
Posted by halftidy (U8567554) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
My immediate reaction was CBT might help. My husband is a depressive but won't do anything about it. His mother was exactly the same and when she was on anti-depressants she was lovely and 'normal' but when she thought she should stop taking them she became a nightmare and was particularly unpleasant to my younger daughter and to me. It was very difficult. OH always sees the glass half-empty, or as I always say hardly a drop in the bottom of it! I am certain it is a genetic trait - one of our daughters has periods of depression and from all I have read I am sure CBT would be a good place to go. I would also be interested to hear other ideas.
-
Message 3
Posted by Finally (U2221028) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
I've had some very good experience of group CBT for a specific issue in my life; I realise from my general background reading and more usefully, including finding a set of very similar notes for another group which had not been cleared from our room, that the group CNT therapy was also used for mild depression.
Maybe they *were* treating us for mild depression, the presenting problems in our group were more specific.
The group CBT was very useful for those of us who stayed the course. less successful, I suspect, for those who couldn't see how it would help & hence argued with the process and then dropped out. Or stayed and said it didn't work for them because well, it didn't work.
The connection between this an the OP is clear to me, albeit not very clearly expressed here, so I'm just hoping you can make the connection for yourself. I know someone who I think would benefit hughly from CBT, who refuses to try because they don't see how thinking differently would change anything. I know it would but how to convince someone. Even forcing them to attend (however that would be accomplished) woudln't help, they could just sit through it disagreeing. *sigh*
For the record, their family is very 'oh well, whats the point' about things too, again just as likely nurture than genetics IMO. F. xx -
Message 4
Posted by Finally (U2221028) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
That CNT, how did that get there? CBT, CBT, CBT, CBT is wot I meant.
-
Message 5
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
Don't worry, I know what you mean!
Thanks for those responses. I had one of those lightbulb moments when I visited her over the weekend. In the last few years she's moved from her lovely home in a lovely city to a lovely smallholding in the south-west, she's left her old, stellar career, retrained and has a fantastic new job - all the things she was convinced would make her happy. And here she is, vaguely depressed and discontented yet again. As she was telling me how generally unhappy she was (her situation is *so* far from awful) I didn't know whether to shake her and yell: 'But there are people of your age dealing with cancer and death and bankruptcy, get over yourself!' or to do my empathic listening. I suddenly had a bolt of insight while she was talking: it's not where she lives or what she does, it's how she thinks - and her mum thinks the same way.
Will find a way of suggesting CBT. -
Message 6
Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
How do people like that cope when something really is wrong e.g. cancer?
Just asking ... -
Message 7
Posted by gigglemahanaz2 (U14257954) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
Not very well Scarlett love that's how!
I knew a woman who's son had cystic fybrosis (mildly compared to many), she and her husband had had thier own business which for various reasons had gone under and they had a lot of money to pay to the Inland Revenue.
She was always saying what a hard life she had and how her in laws and workmates had it in for her, hated her, were envious of her and so on, she was even haivng a pop about the rellies who'd helped her out with money to pay her debts from the business.
The Occupational Therpay dept suggested when she saw them that she was suffering depression and maybe meds and CBT could help, she flipped and told them she didn't need it as she wasn't, in her words, mad.
She ruled it out of hand and from what a friend of mine who works there told me this lady is still the same and still causing a lot of problems all round for her work mates in general.
Her dad was treated for heart problems and needed an op, she went into complete melt down despite having told any one who would listen that no one could cope with stress like she could, she was signed off work for 3 months and her GP told her she needed CBT other wise he'd not sign her off in the future if she needed it.
Apparently she went on the course but dropped out of it after 6 weeks saying it was only for *mad* people and of no earthly good to her!
If a bod won't listen let alone accept they may need help there's not much you can do about it! -
Message 8
Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
Wow!!!
Thanks for the detailed response! -
Message 9
Posted by Dee (U3082905) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
I think it can partly be a learned behavour. I am a glass half empty person try as I might to be positive. My mother was and remains the same. Always something to complain about, slightly paranoid, other people's grass is always greener. It was so drummedinto mt as a child not to boast - when I was about 8 or so I told a cousin (trithfully) that I came top in class for a story I had written & my mother sung loudly "why does everybody call me big head, because big head is my name". It still hurts now. So admitting to ones self and, even more so, telling others that life is pretty good. That you like your job & are good at it, are OK financially & have a nice home or a talent or whatever it may be is "boasting" & you can't possibly do that without being a thoroughly horrible person who no-one likes.
Combined with a possible inherited less than sunny disposition (I think it is like most other personality traits, partly genetic & partly upbringing or circumstance) many people can feel deeply unhappy although to others they have nothing or little to be unhappy about.
It can also be that your friend does not have the ability to let go & move on. I don't & replay past incidents over & over in my mind (see my first para). If that is a family trait - maybe old family rows never forgotten or perceived slights never forgiven, that can weigh very heavily. Your friend may have a great life now but when she was a child or younger adult she may have had difficulties which still haunt her.
Work colleagues have described me as optimistic and confident which is the opposite of how I feel but is the image I work hard to project. -
Message 10
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
I think it works in the opposite way, too. I have a friend who is unfailingly cheerful, even though life has cast her some enormous brickbats on the way. She is always so upbeat.
Just recently, I had the privilege of meeting her wider family, and - guess what? They are all like her! Lovely people. I want her mother to adopt me! -
Message 11
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
That;s interesting. Makes me wonder how many people hide their real feelings and get through life that way. Sometimes just pretending to be cheerful and optimistic is enough to change my mood - but then apart from one period when I had very, very good reason to be depressed I don't think I have ever been.
The woman I posted about said a couple of times that only her sister and mother knew and understood how she felt because they were like her, and one of the things she does when she's depressed is go and stay with one or the other for several weeks. Having met the mother, I don't think this is such a good thing to do. They are very alike and the mother is equally discontent, so they probably have an 'ain't life awful'-fest which I suspect reinforces the depression.
This is a long established pattern. She's discontented so she tries to create a new life for herself, works hard to achieve it, then decides it's not the right thing after all and gets depressed again. It wouldn't be so bad if she had a decent period of enjoying what she makes/achieves for herself, but contentment seems to elude her. We talked at some length about it over the weekend and she said something along the lines of 'If I had been abused, or if something terrible had happened I could work on that, but it hasn't.'
I know that everyone has their ups and downs but I guess (perhaps wrongly) that most people have periods of contentment that help balance out the more difficult times. -
Message 12
Posted by Friend of Moose (U14307683) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
I'd say the problem was capitalism, consumerism. (Or it can be for me.)
Questioning that and trying to arrive at a sense of what one really values could create a more balanced outlook.
And finding people who will share/affirm those alternative values. -
Message 13
Posted by catwomyn (U1485618) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
remember depression can be inherited, so I tend to think those with parents prone to depression get the worst of both worlds - a chance of genetic inheritance of a condition, as well as being brought up in a depressed environment. nature AND nurture.
CBT, hmm, I'm not convinced personally. I know the NHS go all out on it because it is evidence based, but I personally question the long-term value
Cat x -
Message 14
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
'Misery loves company', as the saying goes.
Some people are natural Eeyores. they manage to get through life quite well, expecting the worst but keeping going anyway. So not depressives.
I seem to be more of a natural optimist.
One thing I can't understand is 'shopping therapy':. I come back like a bit of wet lettuce. Thank goodness for on-lne outlets -
Message 15
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
I guess we all know a few Eeyores, SilverJenny. This person isn't one of those who suck the joy out of others' lives and she's not pessimistic - she's very can-do.
It's as if she has a vision of what she really, really wants, is prepared to go to great lengths to achieve it (and possibly enjoys the bits like having builders in and starting a whole new career that I'd be scared of) and when she's got it all beautifully set up she goes 'Nah, this isn't it', sinks into depression and has six months off work. It has happened over and over again.
Perhaps FoM has the right angle. Maybe it's just the wanting stuff, wanting more, wanting different that's at the bottom of it. -
Message 16
Posted by RosaGallica (U3612905) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
My OH can be very much glass empty and probably cracked too. He did have an appallingly abusive upbringing and I wonder if that is one reason for this attitude.
One of the things he has appreciated about being married to me is my tendency to find a lot of happiness in the simplest things, while he is thinking 'If only this, this and this happens, I will be happy at last.'.
One of my favourite books is entitled 'Wherever You Go, There You Are' and I think this is why you can change your job, home, partner etc etc and still be discontent. Having said that I do realise that sometimes changing life circumstances can make a very real difference to a person's happiness.
Personally I tend to see the world in a grain of sand whereas my OH would be sweeping up the sand, constructing sea defences or a sand pit or something. I often think if everyone was like me, we would still be living in caves.
I have rambled, I think it is sleep deprivation, helping look after my newborn grandson. Might press cancel. -
Message 17
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
Really glad you didn't press cancel. I am more like you - not that I don't have gloomy patches. Like you, I find my contentment not in the bigger picture but the details. I planted out some broad beans I'd grown from seed this morning and it gave me a feeling of contentment. Difficult to imagine how life might be without those regular little fixes.
You're right about the creative power of discontent. Good way of looking at things. -
Message 18
Posted by welshteddy (U3680635) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
My OH has had one episode of depression. He was recommended 'Mindfulness' by Mark Williams. He found this invaluable as it teaches you to appreciate the life you are living NOW, not the one you haven't lived, or want to live.
Your friend may find this useful, if she would accept idea of it that is. -
Message 19
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
That sounds useful: I could send it to her with a casual 'Wondered if this would be of interest' note. I know from the way she talked that she understands that this is something she needs to break with. I think she's getting very tired of the pattern.
-
Message 20
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
I think CBT can be useful, but it depends on the situation, and the person confirmed. I'm the sort of person who always wants to know "why?" So maybe CBT would help in some ways, but I'd still need to work out how I got here, why I'm that way., because it's the way I am. Other people seem not to be bothered about how you.come to be there, so CBT alone may be fine.
Ad for is it genetic or is it learnt... I guess the end result is pretty much the same, so unless you have another sibling brought up outside the family, how can you tell? -
Message 21
Posted by sirblunderdog (U14202514) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
>>I am more like you - not that I don't have gloomy patches. Like you, I find my contentment not in the bigger picture but the details. I planted out some broad beans I'd grown from seed this morning and it gave me a feeling of contentment. Difficult to imagine how life might be without those regular little fixes. <<
Agreed, regular little fixes are the answer for me, growing stuff, planted out my strawberry pot today - didn't need to water it, it's been peeing down all day, long-tailed tits flitting from tree to tree, goldfinches, green woodpecker 'yaffling' and a pair of dunnocks nesting in an ornamental bush.
Won the pub quiz tonight, first time I'd been - chuffed with that. Anyone who knows me knows that I've had so much crap to put up with in my 68 years, but I've a glass of red in my hand now, my electric blanket is on low to keep my back warm in bed, a library book to read and Henry my ancient teddy bear to cuddle.
I get down, of course I do, but I have books to read, music to listen to, steam locomotives to hear as they pass on the WSR.
Rambling again blunders! -
Message 22
Posted by Morganish (U9108847) on Monday, 23rd April 2012
No, Sir B - rampant good sense. Perhaps we are very lucky to be able to find pleasure and contentment in the little everyday wonders of life. Difficult to imagine what lie must be like if contentment and happiness are always over there, out of reach. Sleep well.
-
Message 23
Posted by sirblunderdog (U14202514) on Tuesday, 24th April 2012
I've thought a lot about your OP Morganish. Is depression 'nature or nurture'? I really couldn't say.
I have a joke when I'm feeling down - I suffer from post-natal depression - I've been depressed since I was born!
I've often felt suicidal, but having to clear up after my mother's, which was horrific, I vowed never to inflict mine upon anyone else.
There is only one option - make the best of what you've got.
Best wishes
blunders -
Message 24
Posted by metro-mouse (U3068238) on Tuesday, 24th April 2012
I've often felt suicidal, but having to clear up after my mother's, which was horrific, I vowed never to inflict mine upon anyone else.
There is only one option - make the best of what you've got.
Best wishes
blunders
Ìý
Oh, that is heart-wrenching. I could not leave it unanswered. KOKO, Sir B, there is indeed joy to be found in life, if that goes, seek medical help. mm -
Message 25
Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Tuesday, 24th April 2012
Scanning the thread the main thing I noticed is that everyone else seemed to know what CBT was. I had to look it up. Is it a term which is generally well known? Seems strange to me that such a thing should be common knowledge.
-
Message 26
Posted by Lili Bolero and the band played on (U10534540) on Tuesday, 24th April 2012
Campbell - I think it is fairly well known on this messageboard, but in my work context, CBT means something completely different...
-
Message 27
Posted by Dee (U3082905) on Tuesday, 24th April 2012
Scanning the thread the main thing I noticed is that everyone else seemed to know what CBT was. I had to look it up. Is it a term which is generally well known? Seems strange to me that such a thing should be common knowledge. Ìý I know of it and have done for a considerable time & have a basic understanding of what it is. Not sure that I agree with it though and would never submit myself to a practitioner. Don't know where I first came across it, in a magazine I expect or it may have been mentioned by leaders at training courses - probably both. It's probably no more usnusual as the term psychotherapy these days.
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or Ìýto take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Ö÷²¥´óÐã iD
Ö÷²¥´óÐã navigation
Ö÷²¥´óÐã links
Ö÷²¥´óÐã © 2014 The Ö÷²¥´óÐã is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.