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Negative people
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Monday, 4th June 2012
How to deal with them?
On a scale of 1-10.....I'd say an 8 or 9 (where 10 is worst case possible).
Glass not only half empty but probably dirty before you gave it them and you did intentionally too.....and it's the third time you've done that - the first was in 1992 on the 15th April.
Yunno....that kind of character. where it saps all your energy.
Any suggestions? I'm talking a loved family member.... -
Message 2
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Monday, 4th June 2012
Chiming in. I'd say that three of my close family are on the scale of between 5-9 (either negative or sceptical). I /do/ find it like walking through mud, I have to admit. I occasionally make a comment, then might get 'just pulling your leg' or 'I'm not serious' kind of response. Oh, and that is not including some rather more wounding negative comments (the kind of trying to score points type). I think I tend towards positive thinking, or at least trying to see a balance. Today, I was ironing furiously and telling myself 'don't rise to it'.
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Message 3
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Monday, 4th June 2012
Hiya Bette.
Yes, the 'don't rise to it' bit is particularly pertinent to me because rising to it is ime just want the negative type is seeking.......an issue where one needn't exist.
Patience of a saint springs to mind. -
Message 4
Posted by virtual_jan (U13662056) on Wednesday, 6th June 2012
bb_d, I have just come late to this thread and wanted to say that you have my sympathies - I am in a similar situation with a close relative and it is very, very draining isn't it?
I find myself automatically switching to "Polyanna" mode, and being ultra chirpy and positive - mainly just to get myself through it but also in the vain hope of pulling the other person up short and making them modify their behaviour. Not sure it achieves the latter, but it sure helps me. If that fails, I tune them out or change the subject pointedly.
Once, in exasperation, I threatened to make a tape recording of all the negativity and play it back to them. I think it is the inability to let things go, ever, the "pulling wings off insects" aspect of it that I find hardest of all.
One good thing to come from a visit, though, is that it makes me re-evaluate my own behaviour, as I worry that I may have inherited the negativity gene so am more aware of that in myself.
v_j -
Message 5
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Wednesday, 6th June 2012
Thanks v_j.
It is something that interests me because I want to be of help but, as you say, find it so mentally draining. Unfortunately, negativity, passive aggression and the tendency to be very defensive often tend to go hand in hand.....which can make things extremely difficult. Explain, never argue and know when to disengage seems to be the best way although that often ends in a bout or two of self indulgent pity and victimhood - "nobody's including me....why??".
PS. I agree with you about the self re-evaluation. And furthermore, coming up with strategies so as not to hopefully antagonise the situation. -
Message 6
Posted by Shirley Knott (U14164156) on Wednesday, 6th June 2012
Yikes, BBD - spooky I should find this...
At the moment, that person is me. I know it. I admit it. I wanted to say though, that there is a reason - and it may help someone reading who may recognize it in themselves.
I like to think I'm a fairly positive, good humoured type. Until two yapping dogs moved in next door.
I've thought about starting a thread in here, but I really don't think I would get the responses I would want - there are too many dog lovers tbh.
But this has affected me so much I can't overplay it. Every waking moment (and sleeping - they often wake me at 3am when they're let out into the garden.)
I don't use my garden now - and it breaks my heart because I love my garden, but if I so much as touch the shed door or even my peg bag, they start yapping.
Trouble is, I'm now anticipating it, and I become anxious and my heart beats faster. It's happening now just writing about it.
I've tried speaking to the owners but nothing has changed - they say it's the type of dogs and there's nothing they can do.
Even if I don't actually mention this subject, I realise what I do say is negative, because of it - if that makes sense. I feel under siege in my own home and I hate it. It's beginning to affect how my day goes - not least because I may have had only a few hours sleep. I'm short-tempered and snappy and that's not like me at all.
So I suppose I just wanted to say that there may be a reason for the negativity.
Sorry for the long post. I feel better for putting it down.
Shirl x -
Message 7
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Wednesday, 6th June 2012
Hi Brick-Train.
That doesn't read to me in any way negative. Were I subject to the same, I'd be just as ipssed off tbh.....whether the cause of the noise by loud [human] neighbours or whatever.
Everyone should have a right to a bit of silence in their own home. -
Message 8
Posted by Glorybal-MUSTARDLAND FOREVER (U7278111) on Thursday, 7th June 2012
Oh Shirl,
This is a problem one of my best friends has had to deal with over the last 15 months.
Eventually,she contacted her local council and has had some support from them which may lead to legal sanctions at some pont.
The dog often barks for 3 or more hours almost continuously and is set off by cars driviing past and even the opening of an upstairs window.
My friend has become sensitised to the fear that anything she does may provoke barking and it has destroyed her joy in her garden.
Please try the 'noise team' at your council and keep a dairy. You may be loaned recording equipment. (Friend did not need it as the first time the council officers arrived the dog barked for half an hour while they were taking details and was still barking when they left) -
Message 9
Posted by metro-mouse (U3068238) on Thursday, 7th June 2012
That is terrible.
Have you tried sonic dog barking deterrents, some have found them very effective. Also contact Noise Control at the Council as already suggested, no doubt other neighbours are similarly disturbed. -
Message 10
Posted by GEm (U4356909) on Thursday, 7th June 2012
In reply to OP
How about a few choice phrases like
" Aw it's being so cheerful that keeps you going"
" worse things happen at sea though it's been a few years since a major passenger liner went down after a brush with an iceberg"
"It's nice to see you see the positive side of everything - stops the rest of us brooding"
Eventually they'll work it out! -
Message 11
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Thursday, 7th June 2012
I hope you can get something done about these dogs. You have every sympathy from me; not being able to relax in your own home and garden is unacceptable and would make me utterly miserable too. I am a dog lover but intrusive noise like that is almost a form of torture. You have very selfish neighbours.
-
Message 12
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Thursday, 7th June 2012
Yes, good suggestion, which I have to say has been tried but unfortunately tends to result in the individual feeling abjectly sorry for themselves, i.e. "ooh, poor me, why are you being sarcastic and having a go at poor brittle me?".
-
Message 13
Posted by GEm (U4356909) on Friday, 8th June 2012
How about a bit of brutal honesty in return. Something along the lines below. Start and end on reaffirming that you love them.
"Look you are surrounded by family and friends who love you - there are people who are completely alone and some have ill health to cope with as well. You have a lot to be cheerful about and being negative takes the shine off for other people too. If you do it constantly you'll find people choose not to be in your company.... much as we love you"
G -
Message 14
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Friday, 8th June 2012
"Look you are surrounded by family and friends who love you - there are people who are completely alone and some have ill health to cope with as well. You have a lot to be cheerful about and being negative takes the shine off for other people too. If you do it constantly you'll find people choose not to be in your company.... much as we love you"
³ÒÌý
"Well if you feel like that why do you bother with me at all? I knew you didn't really like me and all I have ever done for you is my best. And it's not good enough for you" ( pause for waterworks) "I must have done something very bad for you to speak to me like that. All my friends have family who wouldn't dream of saying things like that to them. You have no idea what I go through everyday or you wouldn't say such terrible things to me"
Repeat every time you see them even though you said it only once.
Yup. Works a treat.... -
Message 15
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Friday, 8th June 2012
How about a bit of brutal honesty in return. Something along the lines below. Start and end on reaffirming that you love them.
"Look you are surrounded by family and friends who love you - there are people who are completely alone and some have ill health to cope with as well. You have a lot to be cheerful about and being negative takes the shine off for other people too. If you do it constantly you'll find people choose not to be in your company.... much as we love you"
³ÒÌý Forgive if I'm sounding as though I do not appreciate the suggestions GEm. I really do.....thank you.
But once again, this is a very difficult one......resulting in yet more self pity and victimhood. The most recent response after a bit of polite, straight to the point, no nonsense honesty was......
"Then I will continue to be that nasty piece of work you insist I am".
Arrrhhhhhh!!!!!!!! -
Message 16
Posted by Hazel Wooley (U2338026) on Friday, 8th June 2012
I've had one or two people in my life like this. It's impossible to do anything for them because I've come to realise that the negativity is a very bad addiction for them.
I'm afraid that I've been reduced to suggesting they get counseling for their grey outlook on life. They didn't, but it did reduce the frequency that they tried to cry on my shoulder.
Re. the dogs. I'm a dog lover, but two continual yappers in close proximity is dreadful. You've received v. good advice there, Shirley. -
Message 17
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Friday, 8th June 2012
I've had one or two people in my life like this. It's impossible to do anything for them because I've come to realise that the negativity is a very bad addiction for them.
I'm afraid that I've been reduced to suggesting they get counseling for their grey outlook on life. They didn't, but it did reduce the frequency that they tried to cry on my shoulder.....Ìý I fear you're right Hazel.
And I cannot put into words the levels of frustration and emotional drainage that occurs from having to deal with this type of personality.....just straight-forward communication is a nightmare.
Locking the individual out is not an option, so the only other option is to have some good coping strategies based on ensuring I do not get sucked into the vortex if you see what I'm saying.....and thus ensuring I remain positive.
Very very difficult.... -
Message 18
Posted by Hazel Wooley (U2338026) on Friday, 8th June 2012
The trouble is that we all get sucked into the idea that they want us to fix their problems, and that's not what people like you're dealing with want at all.
I once went on a Microsoft Office course at college. My partner in the class was a psychotherapist in RL. She was really lovely and I once cheekily asked her if she wasn't tempted occasionally to say "Just get over it" to her more annoying clients. She replied "Why do think I'm here, trying to change careers?" It did make me laugh and it was quite refreshing to hear that counselors get fed up with these people too. -
Message 19
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Friday, 8th June 2012
"Look you are surrounded by family and friends who love you - there are people who are completely alone and some have ill health to cope with as well. You have a lot to be cheerful about and being negative takes the shine off for other people too. If you do it constantly you'll find people choose not to be in your company.... much as we love you"
³ÒÌý
"Well if you feel like that why do you bother with me at all? I knew you didn't really like me and all I have ever done for you is my best. And it's not good enough for you" ( pause for waterworks) "I must have done something very bad for you to speak to me like that. All my friends have family who wouldn't dream of saying things like that to them. You have no idea what I go through everyday or you wouldn't say such terrible things to me"
Repeat every time you see them even though you said it only once.
Yup. Works a treat....Ìý Gem
Have been thinking about this as I was out and about.
I apologise if my post belittles your suggestion. I didn't mean it to be rude, just that my response was similar to the one I received when I finally got the courage to say something along the lines that you suggest.
I will never be forgiven for saying it and the matter is raised, along with how much I hate the person (which I don't, I just hate the way they manipulate and behave) and how I have 'gone a bit funny' (ie am no longer dancing to the tune they are playing).
Please accept my apologies.
As for the dog thing...
I too am a dog owner and I quite like dogs but the continual barking is unacceptable. Your nerves must be shattered. I hope you get some resolution soon.
Marms -
Message 20
Posted by virtual_jan (U13662056) on Friday, 8th June 2012
Gosh yes I have not had the dog problem but my last house was ruined for me for quite a while by next door's music and barbecues. I could not enjoy my home or garden and it was very stressful. The council served a section 80 (noise abatement) notice but it was hard work getting to that point.
v_j -
Message 21
Posted by GEm (U4356909) on Friday, 8th June 2012
Gosh Marms - I wasn't offended at all. I've only just seen both of your messages. I do hope I have a thicker skin than that but thank you for a most gracious apology which is accepted with the generosity that it was given.
I have to say my response to people like this is to cut them out of my life but I know that isn't always (and in this case and yours clearly isn't) an option. Perhaps the only other strategy to adopt is to carry on as if they haven't spoken/ introduce a new topic of conversation etc.
I know what you mean about it being held against you forever Marms.
Just keep muttering under your breath "this too shall pass"
I do hope you find some good strategies B and you too Marms. You could learn to do what I do with my sister in law who never stops talking - I just tune her out so the mouth moves but I don't hear the noise!
G -
Message 22
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Friday, 8th June 2012
The one saving grace which I find [most] helpful is in not rising to the bait.
Whatever happens.....never get pulled into an argument. Probably the number 1 golden rule.....
For any affected, I wonder if this might help....
PS. I agree with your experience Marms. -
Message 23
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Friday, 8th June 2012
The most helpful thing I have found is to emotionally detach myself from that person ( helped when I asked them outright if they loved me and got a negative response) and since then it has been easier.
Likewise I began searching the Internet and found a couple of labels that would fit this person regarding a mental illness/personality disorder. This too helps because I can tell myself it's not me that provokes the reactioin I get but the way that person is made. That has helped enormously in fact!
And thirdly I try to control how often we see this person and try and have something else going on too so that the focus is not just on them.
I also have another family member who feels as I do and we are available to 'bookend' visits with phone calls before and after one of us has a visit and we try and find the humor. Not always possible but has made things easier.
However I am still regarded as the person that has 'gone bad'. Oh well never mind...
Marms
PS Gem - phew! I must remember that I don't need to tread on eggshells around some people. I am quick to apologise and will take the blame for an easier life. Even when I don't need to. -
Message 24
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Friday, 8th June 2012
.......Likewise I began searching the Internet and found a couple of labels that would fit this person regarding a mental illness/personality disorder. This too helps because I can tell myself it's not me that provokes the reactioin I get but the way that person is made. That has helped enormously in fact!...... Ìý Amongst the other points mentioned......what a great point. Agree 100%.
Yes, part of the problem is that the individual will often try, and quite deviously, to make others primarily responsible (and accountable) for areas of their personality that ultimately only they can and should manage......and that they will not manage. Then reminds you how you have not done a good enough job.
Although I recognise this is part of the physiological conditioning, it is very unfair......as well as tiring to boot..... -
Message 25
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Friday, 8th June 2012
.......Likewise I began searching the Internet and found a couple of labels that would fit this person regarding a mental illness/personality disorder. This too helps because I can tell myself it's not me that provokes the reactioin I get but the way that person is made. That has helped enormously in fact!...... Ìý Amongst the other points mentioned......what a great point. Agree 100%.
Yes, part of the problem is that the individual will often try, and quite deviously, to make others primarily responsible (and accountable) for areas of their personality that ultimately only they can and should manage......and that they will not manage. Then reminds you how you have not done a good enough job.
Although I recognise this is part of the physiological conditioning, it is very unfair......as well as tiring to boot..... Ìý Absolutely! And very confusing!
Trying to keep one step ahead and being ready to change the subject, put the kettle on or let the dog out for another wee is exhausting but nowhere near as exhausting as before. And occasionally we leave a visit saying 'That wasn't too bad!'
And the label thing has been liberating, in terms of how I now see myself. -
Message 26
Posted by Hazel Wooley (U2338026) on Friday, 8th June 2012
Isn't that true, Marms - I mean about the labelling thing.
I have a family member who I no longer have any contact with. Living abroad helps with that, obviously. After trying for years and years and years to have a fully functional relationship, I finally did some reading, borrowed a few books from the library and realised that it was never, ever going to happen and there was nothing I could do about it.
It's been a tremendous relief and release for me. I'm still sad, of course, that I couldn't fix it, but I'm fairly at peace with it all. -
Message 27
Posted by GEm (U4356909) on Friday, 8th June 2012
Absolutely right not to take any personal responsibility for a person who behaves that way. Unfortunately I don't do the eggshells bit - eventually I am usually so exasperated that they get it all guns blazing.
My particular example was a person who I was roped into arranging things for and no matter how many times I asked what they wanted I was told they were very flexible and whatever. However no matter whatever I did organise the response in a very disappointed voice was "it wasn't quite what I had in mind". I bit my tongue and moved on till eventually having busted a gut to do a party for this person as requested and put up with some awfully bad behaviour from her drunken relatives who appeared to think it was acceptable (as did she) I got this phrase. My response was to turn round and yell back "so what the **** did you have in mind then? I asked often enough and I am not ***ing psychic" Response was a stunned silence and I have been treated with respect ever since and that phrase has never been uttered to me again (though it has been started a few times but a raised eyebrow cuts it off dead)
I guess everyone is different and it depends how much you are prepared to put up with. We have a child (coming up to a teen) in our family who is a spoiled brat - and OH and I appear to be the only people who challenge his behaviour. Interestingly it's us he always wants to come and stay with rather than those who let him behave like a brat - to my surprise.
Marms I am sorry you were told you weren't loved by this person but perhaps you ought to recognise that they aren't that important and there is a Mr Marms and some little golden shreds who more than make up for that with lots of love for their marmalade -
Message 28
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Friday, 8th June 2012
Isn't that true, Marms - I mean about the labelling thing.
Ìý
So true. And I am no expert so might not even have the right diagnosis but it doesn't really matter as I am never going to confront the person with it and it is still helping me to view this person in a different light.
And I have also gone through a kind of grieving process I guess, when I finally got around to realising that we were never going to have a normal relationship like other people have. -
Message 29
Posted by bigbad_don Est1886 (U3243025) on Friday, 8th June 2012
The label thing is indeed very liberating. One no longer has to mentally carry the weight of blame.....and the resultant guilt that the negative individual will try to offset. And boy do they....
A stress relieving emotional release. -
Message 30
Posted by Marmalade Drizzle (U2239190) on Friday, 8th June 2012
Marms I am sorry you were told you weren't loved by this person but perhaps you ought to recognise that they aren't that important and there is a Mr Marms and some little golden shreds who more than make up for that with lots of love for their marmalade
Ìý
Actually I am not sorry. It was the thing that enabled me to disengage emotionally and that has been liberating!
And I know what you mean by the spoilt kid. Children don't feel secure if they are given everything they want and they like to feel that someone is in charge. You probably make him feel safe and secure!
Marms -
Message 31
Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Sunday, 10th June 2012
Aagh Shirl, what a nightmare with the dogs. I'm a dog lover but I hAte barking dogs (the big peaceful beasts I tend to choose bark so seldom that on the odd occasions they do they look surprised themselves at the great sonic wOOf they let out...).
One of my pals has a yappy Jack Russel. She has used an electric collar on him to great success. She only had to use it a few times - now if he even sees it he stops barking. I know some people think such things cruel and they may even be illegal in (some parts of?) the UK but it does no lasting harm and almost always works a treat. I've had electric shocks from cattle fences myself and they do exactly what it says - shock rather than truly hurt. A dog soon learns to associate the shock with the idea of punishment for barking and that he can stop the shock by stopping the noise. I would definitely suggest to the neighbours that they try this method. Surely they can't like living with such an irritating noise any more than you do?
It's totally unnacceptable that neighbours should have their lives dominated by such a horrible noise.
On the negative people topic. I'm afraid I have little truck with such creatures and tend to choose to remove them from my life. The last one used to moan continually about all her problems (which were mostly monetary and of an extremely luxurious kind, involving property deals and such like). In my innocence I first tried to offer practical advice, but soon realised she didn't want this, she just wanted a good moan. And every time practically the same moan. -
Message 32
Posted by savannahlady (U2362903) on Monday, 11th June 2012
As some people in ML know, I am a humanist celebrant and chaplain (lay adviser) so I get to hear a lot of people's problems in life. It has been my experience frequently that those who really need help are often the least likely to ask for it or to complain about their lives. They just get on and deal with it or, in the very worst of cases, they don't and they bring it to an end.
That doesn't mean that I ignore anyone else of course - some people are inherently incapable of dealing with any sort of negative issues. As someone who was originally trained as a Samaritan, I try not to offer advice as such, but instead help people to find their own solutions (though this does involve some fairly strong 'suggestions' from time to time!) I do agree that it can be frustrating when everything that is mentioned is rejected, usually with a feeble excuse. And it is sad that people seem not to realise how much their own constant moaning is a real turn off for other people, especially those who have tried to help often in the past.
As my old Mama used to say, misery loves company!
Savvie
(here delaying a return to the writing of a difficult funeral)
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