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How it all began!

• Message 1. 

  Posted by AlexClou (U13506668) on Tuesday, 14th October 2008

  Has there ever been a historical series on garden designers over the past 400 years?
  
  I have just been reading about London and Wise who seem to be one of the early 18th century 'pioneers' in landscape gardening, alongside the likes of Kent, Robinson, Brown and Bridgeman.
  
  

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 14th October 2008

  There was on about Gardens through Time or some such title, presented by Diarmuid Gavin. It only went back a couple of hundred years though and involved planting up small gardens in the styles discussed. These can be seen at Harlow Carr although when I was there in July 2007 they were not being maintained very well - something to do with funding I think.

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• Message 3

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  Posted by greeneddy (U6603838) on Tuesday, 14th October 2008

  I'd love to see a programme on the history of gardening - or even just 'English' or 'British' gardening; maybe starting with the Romans and the plants they brought with them, going on to the monasteries and the physic gardens, Tudor knot gardens, etc, the Tradescants, then on to the landscape movement, and up to the present day.
  Anyone in Ö÷²¥´óÐã-land also think this would be a good idea??
  Gardens Through Time was more like a game-show programme, with designers latching on to cliches and making 'show gardens'; I took a group round Harlow Carr in September, and found this one of the most uninspiring parts of the garden.

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  Posted by AlexClou (U13506668) on Thursday, 16th October 2008

  The Ö÷²¥´óÐã already has a superb gardening history timeline that could easily become the base for a TV series.
  
  For users to this forum, who do you think are the key gardening designers/enthusiasts who influenced us over the past 600 years?
  
  We are all familiar with the names William Kent and Lancelot 'Capability' Brown but there's a less well-known person who in my view should be recognised as an influential landscape garden designer of his time in 18th century England... Charles Bridgeman (c.1690 - 1738).
  
  

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Holbert (U3994703) on Sunday, 19th October 2008

  Not a tv series, so I may get chastised, but a fantastic little book on gardening history is "The Garden, Visions of Paradise" by Gabrielle Van Zuylen.
  
  
  
  Charles Bridgeman is discussed too

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  Posted by AlexClou (U13506668) on Monday, 3rd November 2008

  Thanks for the link to the book - a brilliant read at an unbelievable price!
  
  Does anyone else 'out there" have views on the great garden designers of the past?

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• Message 7

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  Posted by Aspidistra (U11680993) on Monday, 3rd November 2008

  Yes I think it would be a good idea, maybe UK and European gardening history, with a really knowledgeable presenter, not a daft, half-cut thing.
  Maybe in the style of Monty in his 80 gardens around the world thing or something like that - that combined intelligence with interest.

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  Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  As long as the research is more solid and the gardens are visited at the correct season. I don't want to see another set of Taj Mahal water gardens in the dry season or Chinese Summer Palace gardens in winter.

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• Message 9

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  Posted by real_monty (U7742669) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  I am afraid that this is unfair and innacurate criticism. 
The planning and research for 80 gardens was meticulous and elaborate Of course every effort was made to visit gardens when they were at their best. Why should we not want to do that? 

However the logistics were complex and at times pretty impossible within the very strict budget. 
So, for example, we visited China in Spring (not winter) so that we could combine it with our trip to Japan so we could film the cherry blossom. As it turned out the weather in Beijing in March was foul and the blossom in Kyoto was exceptionally late! But there is controlling day-today weather.

We could, of course, have gone back to get a few gardens in better weather - but would you as a licence payer have been happy to pay the tens of thousands that this would have cost in flights, fees, visas, hotels, drivers, filming passes etc etc?

The only time I personally think that this would have been justified was the water garden at Deeg which is only filled twice a year for a day each time. Some shots of that would have been great.

Finally - and I apologise if this is becoming an overly defensive rant but the logistics of organising a shoot like 80 gardens are truly horrendous - The one garden where he night before our visit the owner told us that we were coming when it was absolutely at its best was Stellenberg in Cape Town. Next day, all day, it rained stair-rods. 

You can't win!

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• Message 10

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  Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  Thank you for your reply Monty. You do seem to have a strange keyboard though.
  
  I can quite see the logistics of seeing 80 gardens at their best are difficult but there are people whose whole careers are built on their skills in doing just that kind of planning. Personally, given that many of the gardens featured are private and inaccessible to the public or beyond the financial means of most of us to visit in person I would say it's a waste of license payers' money to go and see gardens when they are not in their prime.
  
  In hindsight, it might have been better for the final product, not to mention your own health, to have had a longer, more relaxed schedule for filming rather than trying to cram so many into one trip. We wouldn't expect a natural history programme to film the highlights of the life cycle of a polar bear whilst it is hibernating in an ice cave would we? Nor woud we be happy about a trip to film say a butterfly species when they're all in their pupa stage? It would be bad timing.
  
  Having said that, I thought it was an ambitious and mostly successful series. I didn't like all the gardens but I did enjoy your personal commentaries and the chance to see gardens that are otherwise out of my reach so thank you for that. I don't think you need to be so defensive.
  
  I hope you are well and that your garden is recovering from the floods of last year. Good luck also with your new post at the Soil Association.

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• Message 11

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  Posted by real_monty (U7742669) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  Thanks Obelixx. All good points and I pretty much agree. In the end it all comes down to money. natural History programmes famously have squillions to spend compared to gardening.Dont know what my keyboard is up to - it has taken to filing numbers when U press the return key although only here. Perhaps there is some runic significance in this... it doesnt do this elsewhere.My garden and I are fine if a little subdued. But thats the season

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• Message 12

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  Posted by Aspidistra (U11680993) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  Monty, 'tis the season for huddling around our computer screens, I think. I'm hoping if I work on mine enough it will work like one of those SAD light boxes and cheer me up a bit
  
  Going back to the history thingy, I remember yonks ago doing a City and Guilds course on Garden History and I think doing something that would cover that sort of syllabus, a simple zoom through each era would be very good. No need to get clever with finding a 'new' angle on it - just delivered in a straightforward way with lovely film of examples of the gardens.
  
  I wonder sometimes whether programmes go awry because there is a desperation amongst producers to come up with unique selling points, whereas maybe now is a time for the Beeb to start thinking in terms of capitalizing on being good at informative programming which doesn' have to be filled with funny camera angles and drowning in sound.

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• Message 13

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  Posted by real_monty (U7742669) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  I couldn't agree more. A huge amount of energy, time and some money goes into getting things commissioned within a highly competitive atmosphere. It is all too easy to forget the viewer and their need and desires in the flurry of 'winning' and then making a programme.

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 13.

  Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 4th November 2008

  I think you're right there Monty. Too many in TV seem to forget the viewer is ultimately the raison d'être for all their output. It's a pity programme makers, commissioners and schedulers don't treat them/us with greater respect.

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