TV and Radio permalink
Friday 10 April, Gardeners' World
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Â
Posted by phyll_ostachys (U12011174) on Thursday, 9th April 2009
Happy Easter! Just to get you in the mood for a busy weekend's gardening, here's an exclusive preview from tomorrow night's show:
Please post your feedback messages here, so we can have a discussion about this week's programme all on one thread!
Thanks, Phyll -
Message 2
Posted by Houdy222 (U8365378) on Thursday, 9th April 2009
Thanks for the reminder about GW tomorrow. I must have a look to see what's on the radio.
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Message 3
Posted by Seacarrot (U3012141) on Thursday, 9th April 2009
I shall be tuning in, I hear there is an offer of some free veg seeds as well.
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Message 4
Posted by crouchee (U13371975) on Thursday, 9th April 2009
£60 a tonne for topsoil, Toby? They saw you coming!
I can get proper BS3882 topsoil ready blended with recycled waste compost for £20 per tonne plus VAT and delivery which still makes it less than £30 a tonne for five tonnes, last time I got some (December).
Otherwise some sound reasons for making raised beds. Just grow short veggies! I don't think I'd want to grow any tall peas and beans in these beds, I'd need a step ladder to pick them! -
Message 5
Posted by bluebell76 (U13901033) on Thursday, 9th April 2009
Toby is brilliant, he gives the information you need whilst making it interesting. I can't wait until tomorrow night.
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Message 6
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Friday, 10th April 2009
That's interesting.
I've just paid £57.50 for one tonne inc VAT and dlivery, but it was a lot cheaper if I had needed several tonnes.
That's in Yorkshire
Maybe he meant that you could pay that much if you only wanted a single bag, or have I been done as well? -
Message 7
Posted by MsSeahorse (U11657392) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Just been looking into this quite extensively. You can get really ripped off at £75-£100 a tonne, I kid you not.
The best I could do was £50, with free delivery. And it's good stuff too. But then I'm local to GW so perhaps it's the going rate round here.
Nooj I think you did okay. Crouchee, you must have friends in earthy places...
Anyone from Bham used the municipal compost? Do they deliver? -
Message 8
Posted by marinelilium (U8293024) on Friday, 10th April 2009
GW 10.04.09
Enjoyed it all thanks!
MLx -
Message 9
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Dreadful soil in their field, every time Toby tried to get a spade through the ground you could hear it grinding against the stones.
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Message 10
Posted by marypoppins1 (U2341113) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Hi Ms seahorse
Haven't been on here for a while but the new GW and Toby is inspiring me!
I'm in Brum and have an allotment and wondered about how to access the LA green waste compost. When I asked the allotment secretary she didn't know anything about it. I wouldn't mind trying it though, so if you know how to get it, where from and how much it costs can you let me know please?
Whereabouts in the our great city are you?
MP1 -
Message 11
Posted by Bedora (U9635442) on Friday, 10th April 2009
I just wanted to let the producers know how much I enjoyed tonight's GW.
I was driven to such despair last series that I didn't even bother to watch the first episode back last week, but tonight's episode actually made me regret I'd missed it.
How nice to be able to look forward to episodes again, and to feel certain I'll learn something and be inspired to try things. Thank you so much. -
Message 12
Posted by Goldilocks (U2169760) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Well done again GW! I have now scheduled my machine to record the whole series (unlike last year's series, which I thought was pretty dire, even before Monty's departure.
And to my great relief it looks like Joe is going to be getting input from seasoned allotment holders this year, rather than bumbling about as he did last year. -
Message 13
Posted by 16Greencroft (U13911574) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Have just watched Gardeners' World.
When many are taking up allotment gardening because they are hard up and vegetable prices are rising fast, the GW presenters are spending £260 to create one "raised bed" and £55 on a patio planter. What planet are they on?
As for Growfun, words fail me. What are they on?
Having spent five boring minutes putting potatoes in the ground the presenters have retired to their "garden shed" which possibly cost more than some houses.
I would like to know what the budget for this programme is. For practical allotment gardeners it is a total waste of money and viewing time. -
Message 14
Posted by Goldilocks (U2169760) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Troll alert!
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Message 15
Posted by MsSeahorse (U11657392) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Mary Poppins I'll let you know. The top soil I got was really good but I'm keen to get some council muck too.
I live not a million miles away from Alys I learned tonight! Gosh. Small world. It's funny seeing so much of Brum on the screen. Not to everyone's liking I'm sure but we do edgy and urban very well don't you agree? And thrifty and no nonsense. Centre of the universe really
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Message 16
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Friday, 10th April 2009
A double bill here from Trillium and Trillium's top GOTY assistant, H.1.
Hard for me to comment. Was looking for more information by way of subtitles, if not speech. What were the alpines? What is an alpine and what was the debate about, essentially? What were the plants in the planters? I saw a Phormium, a Bellis perennis and possibly a Heuchera, but the 30mins and £55 went in a flash. The spud planting was better. Over to H.1:.......
As a Manchester city centre dweller, the grow your own drive has certainly made me wish i did have some sort of outdoor space, even a large windowsill would do! The veg planting lessons were good and with plenty of detail, and i hope they continue. I would agree with the comments on the planters - having watched it, i would have no idea how to re-create one, eg what plants are suitable.
A final note - it seemed that the top gear style 'cool wall' and quick flashy images in time with background music are intended to attract the younger viewers (like myself). Even as a top gear fan, neither patricularly worked for me. I would rather see practical things like the veg growing than gimmicks designed to grab attention -
Message 17
Posted by thevodkarose (U13048111) on Friday, 10th April 2009
Nice piece on spuds - I have my first ever own spuds chitted, and I needed to know how to grow them in pots. Now I can plant them properly tomorrow.
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Message 18
Posted by marypoppins1 (U2341113) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Hi Ms Seahorse
You can't be far from either then. I knew Alys lived in Kings Heath from other items that have been on GW in the past. They actually went to her garden once - might have been last year sometime. I'm not a million miles away from there - I live in Hall Green and my allotment is in Yardley Wood. Do you have a plot too?
I didn't hear or see anything about that community thing she is doing though did you?
If you do find out about the green compost it would be good if can let me know. I might send an email to the relevant people at the council. Will let you know if I do.
Anyway, Happy Easter Gardening. Nice to 'meet' a fellow Brummie gardener.MP1 -
Message 19
Posted by islandchap (U13911850) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
At last a gardening show that will appeal to the masses. Gardeners' world is now trying to reach people with real gardens rather than showing us people with acres who can't possibly look after it without the help of their gardener!
Im glad to see the new format and long may it continue. The programme is bright lively and informative with a diverse team with an excellent combination of skills and knowledge.
The only one gripe I have for the team is don't forget we are in a recession so spending £55 pounds on a planter is a bit unrealistic. In my opinion a good hour's television for a friday evening.
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Message 20
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
To refer to this offering as 'dire', would be to minimise just how awful the programme was. If it had been any better, I wouldn't have sat through the entire hour, as I had stupidly reasoned that no programme could possibly contain nothing at all of any real value to a gardener.
What has happened to the traditional start to the programme - the soothing music that told us the weekend had arrived? We were stuck in a converted ice-cream van with Toby showing us how to drive along the Queen's highway while conducting a piece to camera (makes a mockery of mobile phone legislation). Only after he had wittered on for a couple of minutes did we get the official start of the programme. I've little idea what this 'dig' business is all about, but if it is dependant on Buckland standing in some town square annoying a few passers-by, then it's doomed from the start. Toby got worse as the programme progressed. He has cultivated the TV gardeners habit of having to feign heavy breathing every time he performs a simple task. It would appear that if 'dumbing' is the name of the game, then Toby's your man. His pieces with Alys are just embarrassingly amateurish. Alys herself is proving that she has no talent for spontaneity, and her accent and lack of vocabulary are finding her out. I've no idea what she was doing in her own 'slot', as my eyes glazed over half way through, when her discussion with some group was turning my attention to what wine I could use to numb the pain of it all. Carol was intercepted by the camera as she was finishing her world-record breaking dash from her home to some primary school where the children were commendably working (and enjoying themselves) in the garden. Why was there the need for this sprint up the school path? Do they really think the viewer is so stupid that we can't work out that the dash commences when the camera starts to roll. Idiots. The whole programme was so downmarket that poor old Joe came across as the brains of the organisation - and he was awful (though he continues to have a good conceit of himself). Even a visit to a camp rose gardener was ruined for me by the gatling-gun camera effect. I didn't actually catch the final 'shed talk' segment, as I had drifted into some strange torpor by this time, and was wondering what to do with the rest of the evening. I've no doubt I didn't miss any pearls of wisdom.
The new style of the programme indicates that it's targetting a younger audience, and of course the Ö÷²¥´óÐã reckon that most youngsters are thick, and design their offerings accordingly. I could go on for ever about the problems with this programme, but I've already wasted an hour of my life on last night's bilge. Come back Monty - I didn't realise I would miss you so much. -
Message 21
Posted by green-buddha (U11615833) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Amen to all that Ken - especially the final sentance!
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Message 22
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I too was appalled. GW is supposed to be about how, what and when to garden according to season, plants, soil, aspect isn't it?
Instead we got far too much drivel in a van and what a bad piece of marketing strategy that was. He'd have been better doing a proper ice cream round in suburbia and having direct contact with people and their gardens instead of hawking in some paved square.
The set piece with the grow bags was risible. Arent they supposed to show us best practice? No-one with half a brain sows and waters a grow bag and then tries to move it. The 30 minute planter was equally unedifying and the unwatered sunflower seeds in tins were doomed to failure if copied and potentially dangerous with those sharp metal edges - not at all ideal for a kids' project. The only other flower item was planting that rosa rugosa with no mention of their suckering habit and no watering either. Heaven help any gardener who can't or won't grow veggies.
The allotments item was pointless unless a campaign is launched to increase alloment availability. It might have been useful to mention that some NT gardens are making allotment/community gardens on their sites. The RHS schools' project is admirable but last night's coverage did not do it justice.
It's all very comic book and noddy style isn't it? I shall carry on recording in the hope it gets better but I'm afraid it's sunk to 1 out of 10 this week. -
Message 23
Posted by smilingmariade (U13654148) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Sorry Phyll, i just saw your post after i sent mine... i'm new... here is my feedback:
Its a bit bizarre ins't it??
I'm young and trendy and just starting gardening and i think its ok that GW adds on a bit of 'young & trendy' in these new series but it is not quite working because i think they are focusing too much on that and leaving behind the old GW tradition that made millions of people tune in (including myself). So my advice to GW is that its fine a splash of 'young and trendy' approach to reach new viewers but dont let it take over! I loved the old series where I learnt and was inspired and that is what i want from GW. I did not enjoy yesterday's GW and can't bear the idea that the new series are going to be... well 'silly'. -
Message 24
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I used to say the the Ö÷²¥´óÐã license tax was justifiable for Radio 3 and Gardener's World.
Obviously that is now an absurd assertion as both have been ruined by the faux-gods of 'accessibility' and 'relevance' that the Ö÷²¥´óÐã worships. -
Message 25
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I always enjoy reading Ken Smart's over-the-top comments and for me he wasn't too wide of the mark this time. I commented last week that although I enjoy a bit of humour, let's not get too carried away. However last night they were carried away in abundance. The rather embarassing grow-bag bit where neither seemed to know what they were doing, Alys later on called soil 'dirt' (Well my wife does that but she's not paid money to present gardening on TV), and the awful ice cream van in the Birmingham Square. Why or why do presenters have to look at the camera whilst driving? That infuriated me (One-time Advanced Police Driver). The rose enthusiast saved the programme for me but we sped through it at 100mph. They could have easily done away with the "What's cool this year" chat in the shed (Well I for one really like the shed) and spent more time on the roses. Hopefully I'll be able to find a list of the roses mentioned elsewhere as it was far too fast for me to take down.
All in all, after a pretty good first episode, it's started to slide down hill. I doubt now if we'll ever return to the quality of the Percy Thrower/Geoff Hamilton/Alan Titchmarsh/Monty Don days as now it's got this low, they'll kid themselves that it's really good and that everyone likes it. The Sun is today's best selling 'newspaper' so I guess that says it all. -
Message 26
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
And I've not finished. I know my hearing is not brilliant these days but for the second week running, what was happening to the sound? Half-an-hour into the programme the sound quietened down. I had to turn the sound up then five minutes later, the volume returned and I was deafened.
Judging by the reaction so far, the new format GW is definitely getting the thumbs down. I'm exasperated!! -
Message 27
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Hi Paul - you've hit the nail right on the head - (not like Alys last week!) - I was disappointed after what I thought was a good start to the series. I think they showed two roses PER SECOND at one stage - but need to check on i-player to see whether I'm quite mistaken. The sound went wobbly last week for a short while too - I thought it was a problem with those mikes, but must be something else which I hope they'll rectify.
Can anyone explain why the children were wearing those yellow reflective jackets? Ma. -
Message 28
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
It was poor and needs to get a lot better
The price of soil made me choke, we have just had 16 ton of really good quality stuff delivered for £225. -
Message 29
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Unfortunately I didn't get to see much of the first episode but got there second time around.
The garden looks like it's been well prepared to be a long-term television garden site which is a positive start. I've seen many gripes about the 'outrageously expensive greenhouse, raised beds, shed, walls, paths, land works,etc.', which to be frank I don't understand. Without the structure they have put together and some ground preparation there could be no programme. So, so far so good.
Last night's programme flew by and I really enjoyed most of it. Some bits seemed a waste of air time (the tourning van) but I'm hoping air time will be used more productively in the future. I got the impression that 'showing' viewers close up views of the 'doing' seems to have sunk home and I appreciate that. The one surprising piece last night was the planter. I am probably one of a very small minority on these boards who finds the constant griping about spending money on anything for the garden painful - anything with a price tag above that of a packet of seeds seems to awaken a sense of injustice and self-rightousness that is fairly extreme and tries to kill in the bud any element of choice for others. It also completely denies any notion that there are crafts people and artisans in the UK who make their living by making beautiful objects for the garden and those objects deserve (IMHO) air time too. But having said that, that planter could have been planted up with beautiful plants at a fraction of the price and that seemed to me to be a waste of money.
So all in all, I thought it a good start and well done to all involved. -
Message 30
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Can anyone explain why the children were wearing those yellow reflective jackets? Ma.Â
I had initially assumed that they had to make a short journey (involving crossing a road) to access the garden - but it's possible it was the only 'protective' clothing that is available to the school to help save dirt getting on their own clothes. -
Message 31
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I noticed that too so am pleased it wasn't just my TV or didgy reception.
By the way , my 1/10 is for the veg lady who was wonderful. I liked the eccentric rose grower too but found the speed of filming and camera angles ruined the piece and I have neither urge nor space for old fashioned roses. -
Message 32
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
>it's possible it was the only 'protective' clothing that is available to the school<
More likely the Ö÷²¥´óÐã wouldn't get insurance cover for filming unless the kiddies had hi-viz vests on. Health'n'safety you know! -
Message 33
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
First impressions were "not a patch on last week which I loved".
Second impression was gardening can be a money machine, you may as well tip your wallet into the compost bin, it would do better there than Toby does.
If you want instant plants for tubs, wait for the sale when the staff of the Garden Centre have failed to water half the stock. Pick the best at less than half price, TLC soon picks them up and you have a far cheaper tub.
Secondly why do you need custom made bags for potato's with fancy brass eyes in the base, A large compost bag does the same job for nothing as I have proved over many years.
Thirdly why do you need a custom made transit for giving seeds away and Toby laying his big footprint all round the country.
A simple announcement saying we are giving away 1,000,000 packets of free seed and will be in your area at, would have done nicely.
Last but not least, why are those very expensive raised beds not full yet. They should be earning their keep with a fast crop while we wait for the planting season of the other crops.
Apart from all that scrap the hot wall and discuss a little known plant for us gardeners, one every week of course, not the same one every week. That is in case Toby loses track trying to wind Alys up.
Frank. -
Message 34
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I have a question for all the disgruntled masses out there.
If you watch a cookery programme, do you immediately rush out and buy all the ingredients and cook all the dishes featured?
If the answer is yes, then you might just be a little foolish.
Perhaps you choose one dish you like the look of, but think, well i can't afford that ingredient, so i might use my own knowledge and experience of cooking to substituite something more affordable.
Maybe an ingedient I already have in the cupboard?
The end result is something you have created.
If you prefer , of course to be spoon fed, I have seen available strips of some stuff (!) that they say is impregnated with seeds of some sort and you just lay it on the ground and water for instant idiot gardening
Answers please - I really want to know if there are people out there who complain about dishes on cookery programmes not being to their liking
Use your own judgement as to what you can take from GW for goodness sake -
Message 35
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
PS
Yes, I know I'm feeling grumpy!
it's all the nit-picking... -
Message 36
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I have just watched the Saturday morning cookery with Possum who says I can cook Rick Stein's Chinese style pork/boar dish and Clarissa DW's Thai inspired roast beef but not Jennifer's meatloaf as it had mushrooms in. I'll need to buty a few ingredients to do them.
The rest of the programme included how to smoke trout, make a fabulous looking Italian tart and several other good looking recipes and techniques plus tips on wine.
How I wish GW could have such quality - knowledgable presenters who can communicate what they're doing with interesting recipes, cooking techniques and seasonal food too.
Instead we got a man in a van giving seeds to an underwhelmed public and lots of other low grade, farcical nonsense. It was embarrassing. -
Message 37
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
But will you go and buy boar, and why not do the meatloaf without mushrooms?
Or maybe Possum could pick the mushrooms out, but don't tell her I suggested that!
Right, i'll go outside and work some grump off
x -
Message 38
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Yes I'll go and buy boar as it's a regular feature here in the game season and yes I'll do the meatloaf without mushrooms or maybe with minced mushrooms she can't see as it's the texture she doesn't like, not the flavour.
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Message 39
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Oh allright then
Harumpph.
Really off oputside now, except the sound of easter saturday round here is about 6 strimmers, lots of hammering, and a few chainsaws.
Not to mebtion the electric lawwnmowers.
Traditional start of the season - I'm not grumping about that, although I could do without our own icecream van jingle! -
Message 40
Posted by Petalina (U13862206) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I think there are too many people ( mainly men ) on these boards who could moan for England !!!
I imagine you all long for the days of "proper " gardening programmes - tweed jackets,ties,post war austerity - programmes that proclaim manly gardening ( no puffing or panting - and God forbid any lightheartedness or jocularity!!).
Perhaps you're all Upper Class and long for the dulcet, patronising tones of a past presenter, twinned with the over accentuated vowels of the Cheltenham Ladies,bicycle wielding type of "Gel"
I am not young and only moderately "trendy" but I love the new programme ( and I don't even grow veg!!). Don't be so miserable, pick out the bits which are relevant for you and go with the flow!!
Well done Ö÷²¥´óÐã and more power to your elbow Toby ( take no notice of the professional whingers on this board) -
Message 41
Posted by Petalina (U13862206) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
And - for your information, I am not a troll and have been posting for ages. I always delete my old posts from these and several other Ö÷²¥´óÐã boards - it's just a foible I have
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Message 42
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Hello SS. I don't think either Geoff H or Alan T could be described as uppper class and in any case gardening should and does appeal to, and cuts across, all ages, income groups and social milieux. What gardeners share is an interest, if not that over used word passion, for growing plants for their looks, perfume or edibility.
This incarnation of GW is not giving us what we need - coherent, timely and practical advice on the when, where and how of planting nor what to grow, what's new, what to consider etc.
Last week's programme left me hopeful GW would be heading in a good direction and providing something for all levels and pockets. This week's has left me appalled, saddened and angry in turn that such a lot of time, money, talent and effort should result in such dross. -
Message 43
Posted by Stormy_Pink (U13912310) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
I have just one word for last nights show
DEPLORABLE
and this is what I think to Toby and his new van [IMG]/IMG]
The Ö÷²¥´óÐã has really sunk to an all time low with this new format. Utter dumbed down dross. -
Message 44
Posted by Bostonivy (U13901897) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
My feeling entirely. I disliked the programme last week, and this week's has sadly confirmed that it's the way things are going to be for this series. GW has now officially become tacky - everything's tacky: music, camera angles, style of presentation - and so preachy! When I think last week someone criticised Monty Don for lecturing at his audience!?! I also find all this back-to-basics approach so boring. I'm very much an amateur but I like knowledgeable and experienced people to show me difficult and complicated things. You pick up the basics incidentally, anyway. Mr Don, still missing you...(and Berryfiels - what are they going to do with lovely Berryfields?)
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Message 45
Posted by toonia (U4760062) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Can only concur with the deplorable, dross, dumbed down assessments -and no doubt lots of other D-words are available!
If it's aimed at the young and trendy then what do they do differently to we old and crusty ones?
We may have different tastes but the techniques are the same and all we want is the maximum success in our veg and flower beds. If ice-cream vans and supersheds are going to give me that then I'm a stinging nettle. -
Message 46
Posted by Petalina (U13862206) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Hi Obelixx
I do, largely agree with you about this weeks programme. Let's hope it was just a blip
Bostonivy - Berryfields was never owned by the Ö÷²¥´óÐã - I presume the owners will try to salvage whatever remains from the debacle that was the last series of GW.
Still hopeful that the rest of the series will be more like last weeks opener and relevant to us all -
Message 47
Posted by jennie-wren (U9422284) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Ok, i'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I am interested in what the people who moan about Gardeners World actually want out of the programme?
As a relativly new gardener, maybe 5 years, i'm still finding out stuff that I didn't know, if you have been gardening for years and years then you wouldn't need to watch because you must know it all already, so why watch?
I loved this weeks episode too! -
Message 48
Posted by green-buddha (U11615833) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
As with many areas of life, so too with gardening. The longer you practice the more you realise just how little you know. Here endeth the first lesson.
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Message 49
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
Hi Jennie Wren
If you look back over the last 5 years of what people have been posting on the GOTV board you will know exactly what people want out of the programme.
It has been spelt out time and time again and whilst I would normally go with the old adage 'don't bring me a problem bring me a solution' personally I am tired of banging my head against a brick wall. It would appear nothing that has been said by so many people on this board has been taken ON board by the producers.
And perhaps someone could explain to me why when someone expresses a negative opinion or criticism about something they are labelled a moaner? This happens all the time on this board. Personally I think anyone who enjoyed the cr*p that was thrown at us last night must but be either thick, or lacking in discernment, but I'm not usually rude enough to say so. -
Message 50
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Saturday, 11th April 2009
What happened to all the expensive plants and ornaments from Berryfields. We now have what looks like a very costly new piece of land. With expensive greenhouse, raised beds full of a expensive compost and made from new wood not reclaimed. Was Alys trying to show she recycled with her brilliant tin idea. Unfortunately it was very little against all the other expensive items. What does the van actually do nothing from what i could see. I think of Geoff Hamilton creating his normal sized gardens from scratch showing us each bit as be built and made them and this pitiful program. The site is so big that you cannopt even see whats being done. Toby was exhausted just filling two tubs and the growbag that Alys did was pathetic a child could make a better effort. I do not know what this program is about anymore its just becoming more stupid with each new feature. How long before this one will be abandoned for the next.
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