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Alys and the Dock leaf

• Message 1. 

  Posted by Holly-Ivy-Mistletoe (U11766447) on Saturday, 16th May 2009

  In friday's show Alys helped her voluneers to clear a garden ready for vegetables
  
  Alys picked a Dock leaf and said don't put this in the compost heap but didn't say why
  
  I do wish someone would edit the show correctly and keep the viewers informed Alys seems to flit about
  
  PLEASE HELP ME - WHY I DON'T PUT DOCK LEAVES IN THE COMPOST HEAP

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by mutebuttondelight (U3517782) on Saturday, 16th May 2009

  IIRC she said (whilst showing a dock leaf) not to put the dock *root* in the compost heap. Makes sense as dock is a perennial weed and can grow from root cuttings IIRC..

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Holly-Ivy-Mistletoe (U11766447) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  Thanks I thought everything rotted down and you could put anything on a compost heap
  
  What is 11RC

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Calendula (U2331338) on Monday, 18th May 2009

  If I Remember Correctly. Very confusing - why show a leaf when talking about a root?

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Jenks812 (U5452843) on Tuesday, 19th May 2009

  I imagine because if she showed the root you wouldn't know what she was talking about? Show the leaf and you know what it looks like in the garden.

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Myacer (U3723208) on Tuesday, 19th May 2009

  Maybe if she mentioned that you could put a 'Dock' on the Compost heap but 'cut the root off' before you do and then explain why.
  Most gardeners knew what she meant but it would be helpful to anyone 'new' to gardening to know the reason behind that statement.

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by eco_gardener (U13955786) on Tuesday, 19th May 2009

  Alys missed a golden opportunity here to give so much information, but sadly this is symptomatic of the programme as a whole. It comes across as amateurish, badly planned and poorly executed - and all with a horticultural team of FOUR and a team of FOUR researchers.
  
  Here's how Alys could have given us an information-packed few minutes...
  
  1. Show digging up a dock, explain what a tap root is (a deep root going straight down into the soil) and the importance of getting as much as possible out (even a tiny fragment will shoot again).
  
  2. Show us a close-up of the leaf AND the root of the dock. Dock roots are bright orange-yellow and very distinctive. Then anyone coming across them in winter, when the tops have died down, would be able to recognise them. She could also have shown us a dead flowering stem from a dock, which are still around now - they're pretty distinctive, too.
  
  3. Show us how to deal with dock leaves AND roots. The leaves and shoots are great for adding to a compost bin (don't do it of the stems have flowered and/or are producing seed, or you'll spread docks with your garden compost) and the roots can be added too, BUT only when they are dead.
  
  There are various ways to kill a dock (or any weed with thick, fleshy roots)...
  
  ...you can drown them in a bucket/tub of water. Pack the weeds down, make sure water is covering all parts, and put a brick on the top. In 4-6 weeks, when the weeds are a brown/black smelly mush, and there are no signs of life, add the contents - and any slurry - to your compost bin/heap.
  
  ...you can bag them up. Turn an empty compost bag inside out, fill with wet weeds (pee on them if you want), pack down, then tie the bag off. Puncture a few small holes in the sides and stand in a sunny spot where the bag will heat up in the sun. It takes 3-12 months for the contents to die and rot down, after which they can be added to the compost bin. If you leave them longer the results could go straight onto the soil.
  
  ...you can dry them out. Knock all soil from the weeds and lay them out in full sun - on slabs or a path. When the roots AND any leaves are crisp and crumbly, add them to your compost bin. If you chop them up with a spade first it speeds up the drying/killing. Give them a month or more in the sun - they can take ages to dehydrate! If it rains, why not lay them out in the greenhouse under the staging?
  
  All this saves having to send 'green waste' off to the local recycling facility, which all involves fuel and encourages vehicle pollution. It also keeps the 'goodness' of the garden IN the garden - what we eco gardeners like to call a 'closed system'. It just means as little as possible is lost from the garden - in this case valuable nutrients and organic matter that makes great compost.
  
  Is it really a tall order for GW to give us simple, useful and anyone-can-do-it information like this?

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by TheHejhog (U7657776) on Wednesday, 20th May 2009

  All this saves having to send 'green waste' off to the local recycling facility, which all involves fuel and encourages vehicle pollution. 
  
  Your advice would be great, but for the people who have not the space for a large compost heap. If the service is there, then people ought to use it, to maximise its potential. Likewise, if possible, people should use a home delivery service, rather than drive to the supermarket themselves (unless, like us, you cycle to the supermarket with a trailer).
  
  The main advantage of council compost is of course that many councils offer it free to allotment holders and households. I managed to get a couple of bags from the neighbouring council at a council-run garden fete last year.
  
  Hejhog

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by eco_gardener (U13955786) on Wednesday, 20th May 2009

  What a petty response. Putting almost anything of organic origin in a 'brown bin' should always be the last resort. No one with an average sized garden should need a 'large compost heap' - one of the average-sized recycled plastic ones will do fine.
  
  If Alys Fowler had took the trouble to explain that when brandling/tiger worms enter the bin (they were shown) the contents are broken down very quickly, she could also have explained that an average sized bin is all you need, and that you can add paper and card food packaging to it as well.
  
  Most people who put stuff in brown bins, like those that put stuff in black bins, just want the stuff to go away. You need to remember the resource costs of making green 'waste' compost: vehicles burning fossil fuel to collect the 'waste'; vehicles turning the compost; machinery bagging the compost; the oil needed to make the plastic bags to put the compost in; vehicles burning fossil fuel to deliver the compost/people burning fossil fuel to drive and collect the compost; disposing of the plastic bags afterwards; the general infrastructure to go about setting up a green waste composting facility.
  
  The first rule of composting, if you care even a tad about the environment, is to keep it as close to home as possible. And remember that waste is just an unused resource

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by TheHejhog (U7657776) on Wednesday, 20th May 2009

  Petty?
  
  Councils will stop offering the facility if people don't use it. It is a valuable resource and needs to be kept. We have the space for several large composters and tend not to use the brown bin, but others in our street don't have the space. I'd rather have that they put stuff in the brown bin and let the council deal with it, than it going to landfill. That is the real alternative for most people.
  
  I do agree with you about keeping it close to home and waste being a resource. I dare say you'd be impressed with the set-up we have at ours. Our landfill bin is hardly ever more than 1/3 full, even after 2 weeks. We laugh at our electricity bill, and our car sits and gathers moss. But I have to accept that such a lifestyle commitment is not possible for other people.
  
  Hejhog

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Tuesday, 26th May 2009

  Reply to message 7 from eco_gardener
  
  How I wish you were a presenter on GW - viewers would then get correct, complete and environmentally-friendly information.
  
  

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by 1stClassAlan (U2459016) on Saturday, 30th May 2009

  If one's compost heap is truly composting - e.i. getting very hot - it will kill all weeds and seeds completely.
  
  If on the other hand - it isn't - then you will be redistributing weeds everywhere you put the half rotted residues.
  
  The very instructional programme hinted at above would be made by two earnest ex O.U. lecturers with 1970's beards, bowl along at a snail's pace and soon be relegated to the graveyard shift.
  
  
  .

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