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Gardeners' World 18 September
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Message 1.Â
Posted by saima_host (U13967342) on Friday, 18th September 2009
Hi all
a preview clip for tonight's show is available at
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Message 2
Posted by brightonjen (U4580756) on Friday, 18th September 2009
Is it worth bothering???
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Message 3
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Friday, 18th September 2009
No thanks...I'll be watching 'Strictly'!
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Message 4
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Friday, 18th September 2009
Well worth watching this week
Particularly liked the feature on Narcissus
Only slight criticism was Carol sowing cyclamen seed. The seed have a sugar coated germination inhibitor on them and it is usual to soak them for 24 hours in warm water and washing up liquid (change a couple of times) and then sow.
Other than that quite a watch able program -
Message 5
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Friday, 18th September 2009
Strictly was far more entertaining. I do not even feel i have missed GW no matter what they were doing.
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Message 6
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Friday, 18th September 2009
Somewhere in the recent 4-6 episodes, Rosemary Edwards came back to be series editor, replacing Andy Vernon who replaced her when she moved on to focus on outside broadcast. I don't exactly know when because I don't record GW so I can't replay the credits. (Sad to say it's the only programme I always watch at broadcast time. I admit it, I've nothing better to do on a Friday night - even Strictly can wait. DBH cooks me a lovely meal and I eat in on the sofa watching GW and have done so for years)
Anyway, much as I like Andy Vernon personally(I've met him a few times and do hope he's venturing into happy pastures new), I can feel a more positive spirit returning and something tells me the turning point amongst viewers may have been Rosemary's return. Can anyone pinpoint the date?
If I'm right, welcome back Rosemary. May I venture one observation. I feel terribly left behind (alienation is not too strong a word) with the phenomenal rate of change and the weekly introduction of major new projects at Greenacre. I'd like to request a period in which nothing new happens in which bemused viewers like me have a chance to catch up. -
Message 7
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Friday, 18th September 2009
I'm assuming Rosemary had a major sya in selecting Toby jug to be the new main presenter. If so, she's probably irredeemable. Havent' been watching the credits but if you're right, I 'm glad AV has gone and with him, presumably, the 30 minute travestsies.
If anyone gave me a mistreated teacup full of bulbs and grit I'd be very dischuffed.
Liked the eco lady's take on cuttings but would have liked an indication of what they were as she did them. That potting technique was very good. An oasis in a desert though. -
Message 8
Posted by Stormy_Pink (U13912310) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
I watched Strictly, can't be bothered with Gardeners World anymore, nobody cares what the gardeners actually want watch. Even the number of people commenting on this board has fallen to a pitifully low number now.
Thanks Ö÷²¥´óÐã for killing of the only gardening programme on telly. Bravo! Well done! -
Message 9
Posted by horththit (U13862695) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
I'm Strictly not watching GW anymore. Makes me feel like I'm in primary school. Boring, patronising and a downright bloody cheek. Getting mad now!
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Message 10
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Obelixx - the purple leaved plant was Ageratina altissima 'Chocolate', formerly known as Eupatorium rugosum 'Chocolate'. I can't remember what the other plants were. I liked the tall, squat trays she used for cuttings - good depth for rooting, but not too big. Personally I wouldn't flip the cuttings out, but then I can't toss pancakes either!
It is worryingly quiet on these boards recently. I'd be gutted if they got closed for lack of use. There really isn't anywhere else like it on the internet - I find all the other boards annoyingly complicated or littered with advertising. -
Message 11
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
If I'm right, welcome back RosemaryÂ
What a strange thing to say, considering how she was widely loathed during her previous stint as Producer. However, I can't deny that at least I still watched GW during her previous reign, and quickly lost all patience with it when Vernon took over. However, I share your puzzlement as to what has actually happened here - there certainly have been no official announcements made that I've caught. Could it be that Vernon is simply off for an extended personal holiday, and Edwards is the obvious replacement meantime?
If Vernon has in fact been given the 'bum's rush', then I would have thought that there would be quite a few people who should now fall on their gardening forks, as his arrival seemed to be universally welcomed by all those currently involved. It would also make a nonsense of their repeated refusals to accept that the new format wasn't working.
I think that it is also important to acknowledge that no programme (regardless of how awful it is) can possibly not have some good bits contained in it over an extended period. It's simply not possible to have it any other way when dealing with such a attractive subject. Nevertheless, the current team have succeeded in dragging the programme down to levels which were quite inconceivable until this current series. I know that a few of my neighbours continue to watch the programme through habit, but are quite scathing of the new style. The Ö÷²¥´óÐã musn't assume that all who continue to watch the programme think that it's been heading in the right direction. -
Message 12
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
I think the general consensus was that Rosemary Edwards had redeemed herself with the much improved coverage of Chelsea Flower show this year. As for whose fault the falling standards of GW is it's anyone's guess and could be something the producer doesn't have that much control over - directives from above and all that.
For me Toby has been a disaster as I just can't warm to him as a presenter at all (note I said as a presenter not as a human being as I have no idea what he is like off-screen). Alys, who I do warm to, needs some sort of voice coaching particularly if she is presenting her own veg show next year. Just enough to soften the slightly gaspy, on edge sound of her voice and make it more relaxed and relaxing to listen too. No shame in having coaching most people in public life who do presentations would benefit. Joe by contrast has improved particularly when he is allowed to show his skills and not just be the resident slaphead.
Overall the possibilities of Greenacre seem to have been wasted. I have no idea which part of the garden is which or where anything is in relation to other parts. It is a complete mish-mash and instead of seeing a garden flourish from the basics to maturity we are given the garden equivalent of sound-bites here and there.
Last night the only bit I remember was the lady doing plant cuttings giving useful advice and tips in too short a space of time.
Why didn't they just get rid of GOTY altogether. Last nights was a travesty - the garden and it's owner both seemed very pleasant and the owner presented better than the team. But the tasks and the judging chat were just mortifyingly embarrasing. Yeuch. -
Message 13
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Rosemary posted a blog entry on the 21st August re the Jessamine Cottage broadcast - the one that got moved to the Sunday and in which we didn't see Greenacre at all. Prior to that she'd not posted since November 2008. It was Rosemary who replied here via the host to explain the decision to re-schedule at the last moment.
Perhaps that was the moment of hiatus? -
Message 14
Posted by digitalgrandcanal (U11760543) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Yeah, I missed the first few minutes of Friday's programme, but did notice that someone called Rosemary was in the credits!
I was reminded of GW during the week watching the commercial 4th channel, Keith meets Keith. It showed a clip of Keith Floyd from ages ago, complaining to the cameraman/woman that they shouldn't be looking at his (KF) face, they should point the camera to his hands to show what he's doing. I think the same thing most weeks.
Show less of the presenters' faces, more of the hands, please... -
Message 15
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
In case anyone still doesn't get this Toby rubbish yet.
Whilst planting daffodils, he recommends throwing them randomly across the ground and planting them where they land....(very good for him) cept he then went on to rearrange them by hand...Arrgh!!!
r -
Message 16
Posted by smilingJayelle (U14137260) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
I watched Strictly and then the recording of GW - an evening of bliss. According to this weeks Amateur Gardening, Rosemary is indeed back and GW is under the auspices of "entertainment" like the Chelsea Flower Show, whereas Andy was "factual".
Quite enjoyed the programme except for Alys ( everything about her irritates me, from her over ennunciated voice to her pretentiously spelt name, but especially her mistreatment of those poor bulbs in a 10p charity shop cup )
I do wish they would do "revisiteds" to projects they have started and we've never seen again - the whole thing tends to be "bitty".
Perhaps it'll be better next year -
Message 17
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Hi Trillium, must agree a lot with you about the show but I seem to remember AT tipping the cuttings out exactly the same and I'm sure GH did too. I've never dared to do it 'cause I can't toss pancakes either.
But the main point of my post tonight is that I've been to a Hardy Plant meeting this pm on the Saville Garden. Eric Saville, whom the garden was named after wanted to grow tall climbers on a south facing wall so he built one, just like the one at Greenacres. He used bomb rubble from London. He wanted to have 'something for everyone', so that's why they built it at Greenacres, I suppose. Seem to recall that you didn't like it. -
Message 18
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
I mean, I suppose that's why they did the same at Greenacres.
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Message 19
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Penylan Sue - the high, completely blank wall at Greenacre is north facing. I guess it's the back of the greenhouse wall. But why leave it blank? Greenacre is a stage set anyway, so it could have been set up as the pretend back of a house with a north facing rear garden - incidentally exactly what we had for real in GOTY 2006. I don't think any of us considered planting potatoes right under it!
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Message 20
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
it is usual to soak them for 24 hours in warm water and washing up liquidÂ
Fascinating.
The woods near my house have masses of cyclamens. Who washes the seed in the wild? -
Message 21
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Yes, you're right about potatoes. I imagine it went like this " We must show planting potatoes this week; where is there any spare ground; oh over there by the wall; nobody will notice."
Actually though they have used the wall to show fixing wires for climbers, so I'm sure it will be covered one day. I had a north facing wall once and it is a challenge but possible. -
Message 22
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Saturday, 19th September 2009
Nobody of course, but nature takes time to break down the germination inhibitors built into the seed to protect them from growing too soon. For instance some seed need two periods of cold followed by one of warm before they will germinate. As gardeners we don't need that to happen so we devise ways of doing it ourselves.
Your wild ones have taken time to grow. -
Message 23
Posted by Sparky (U6716422) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Trillium, I do so agree with your comment about Greenacre. I feel as though I have missed a number of programs, (I havn't) because it is unrecogniseable and loads seem to have happened behind our backs! I thought the whole point was that we would see the development of a new garden - or have I lost the plot too??
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Message 24
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Thats just the same a Joe's allotment. A lot of talk about what he has been doing but also a lot being done behind the scenes. When have we seem his produce planted, growing and dug up. There seems to be a great deal of buying in plants for the allotment and the garden. When will we all learn and stop watching this pitiful program.
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Message 25
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Londonplantmad - for me, watching GW is like supporting a football team. Whether they're topping the league or facing relegation - you still go along every week.
Of course, that makes you feel entitled to give the manager/owner the 'benefit' of your opinion of what should be done to make things better - which is one good reason to keep going! I'm not contemplating not watching yet. I can live on scant rations of a few decent passes and the occasional goal to keep hope alive. -
Message 26
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Well lets hope a miracle happens and they buy some new players. They have been facing relegation for a long time now and the supporters are leaving the stadium before the end of the match. Nothing would please me more to see a team that actually works together and wants to be top.
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Message 27
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
ArtemisHP
Most cyclamen are distributed by ants, the seed have a sugar coating that contains the inhibitor.
Ants remove the sugar coating and the inhibitor and the seed then germinates. By washing the seed you just get early germination.
C.Hederifolium and C. Coum are fairly easy anyway.
PenylanSue
If you are sowing seed then you want it to germinate. Before I knew any better I sowed some C. Intaminatuman and the pot moved house twice before it germinated. It only germinated after 8 years and after a very wet winter.
If I had washed the seed in warm water and washing up liquid then it would have germinated that winter. It is a beautiful plant.
To me its a no brainer.
Its the same as using GA3 on seed that is extremely difficult to germinate.
Its a shortcut/technique to what you want -
Message 28
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
What is GA3 please?
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Message 29
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Gibberellic acid. It's a plant hormone which does many things, among them breaking seed dormancy. You won't find it in your local garden centre but can be found on t'internet. If you use it, do so with great caution. Really best left to commercial nurseries.
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Message 30
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
It only germinated after 8 years ...Â
It seems to me some plants have an earnest desire to become extinct! -
Message 31
Posted by Amazing (U7102651) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Trillium if you are still about there is a question on Design Board (meet-up) for you about your bench.
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Message 32
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
Artemis
It is a beautiful and very dainty plant. Has either white or faint pink flowers at this time of year with grey veins. Also has a scent that is only discernable inside.
One of my other favourites is C. Libonoticum
This seed was collected on the Golan Heights and is the only survivor from five original seeds
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Message 33
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Sunday, 20th September 2009
It is a beautiful and very dainty plant.Â
It certainly is! -
Message 34
Posted by tellima (U3297814) on Monday, 21st September 2009
If anyone gave me a mistreated teacup full of bulbs and grit I'd be very dischuffed.Â
I couldn't follow why Alice made a hole in the teacup. If she was going to sit a bulb on a cup of water, why did she need to make the hole in the cup and then plug it? I suppose the answer's staring me in the face but I'm not seeing it - if anyone's got a minute. -
Message 35
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 21st September 2009
I knew something postive was taking place in GW but I didn't realise what it was. The only way I can describe it is to say I felt the programme was becoming more grounded in gardening (again) and throwing off the tat (and there was a lot to throw off). If this is because of the return of RE - great! Whatever the criticism of RE during the last series, I feel this one is beginning to seem like a 'real' gardening programme though, no matter how hard I try, I cannot warm to TB as a presenter (nothing personal), but that won't stop me tuning in every Friday.
My only gripe about this weeks's programme concerns the cyclamen shots - one minute we were being shown the beautiful flowers and in the next shot Carol had the seeds in the palm of her hand! I usually wait nearly a year for the ants to do their stuff and keep an eye out for seeds that have germinated and I would liked to have seen just how the seed was collected.
And Trillium, your likening GW to a favourite football team is spot on - for me Friday evenings are about gardening and GW's my team (no matter how awful it's been in the past). -
Message 36
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Monday, 21st September 2009
I really don't like football now but in my student days at Salford spent 1971-2 going to see Man U one week and Man C the other with the likes of George Best, Bobby Charlton, Francis Lee, Rodney Marsh and so on. This led me to eenjoy and expect a certain level of skill and flair in both players on the pitch and their management in choosing the teams to win.
Current GW players and management have definitely taken their eye off the ball. -
Message 37
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 21st September 2009
Hi Obelixx - if the truth be told, I hate football and rugby and just about anything else played with a ball, but my passion for all things garden-related is as strong as that of any football fan. And you're right, enjoyment of GW is heightened when there is a level of skill and flair in both the presenters and the production team in choosing the former.
I would agree, it certainly felt like players and management had taken their eye off the ball but, credit where it's due, there has IMHO, been a noticeable improvement and I for one hope it continues. -
Message 38
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 21st September 2009
So did you sit in the away stand for both Obelixx? Or have a red scarf one week and blue the next!
I grew up supporting Crystal Palace (my sarf London roots). We were just pleased if they didn't lose - a scraped, scrappy goal or two or a clean sheet would do.
I'm now married to a life-long, one-time season ticket holding Man U fan. I've been to Old Trafford a few times and love the atmosphere, the quality of play, the whole thing. We went to watch them at home against Palace about 10 years ago. By then I could name every Man U player and not one Palace player (not difficult - Man U were on MOTD every Saturday and Palace never were!). I truly didn't know how I'd feel till United scored. Everyone around me shot up and I sank dejectedly into my seat. Funny that. -
Message 39
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Monday, 21st September 2009
As an ex-professional footballer, can I just say that I'm 'sick as a parrot' when I read some of the recent comments, and feel that we're in danger of scoring an own goal if we're not careful. Mind you, when we're the only team in the league, it doesn't really matter. It would appear that no matter how dire the programme becomes, many 'diehards' will continue to watch regardless - because it can only get better. What kind of message does this send out to the programme makers? They can dish up practically anything, and still some will continue to watch. Assuming that there has been a change of policy, no-one has had the decency (or courage) to say that they got it wrong initially. If this isn't taking an audience for granted, then I'm damned if I know what is. Reading this thread is hardly going to be an encouragement for them to put a little more thought into the programme content and style in future years. What of Vernon's early policy statements relating to required changes - have they all now been officially debunked? Have we really forgotten how bad the programme was becoming under the returning heroine (Edwards), or is anything better than how the current series was shaping up? It would seem we're not important enough to be told what the current thinking is. What of the presenters who willingly sold themselves to such poor fare - are they to be forgiven also? All we currently have is speculation as to what is happening, and this in itself should be a warning not to get too excited about recent perceived improvements. It's clear that the same lunatics are still running the asylum.
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Message 40
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 21st September 2009
I know what you mean Ken. I'm always terribly admiring of fans who burn their season tickets in public in protest. So wanton and so gloriously sacrificial.
But the cool pragmatist in me can't help wondering whether they regret it after a few weeks. Nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon but shop or mind the kids and nothing to celebrate or commiserate over with their mates.
BTW - who did you play for? Do tell us the story. (may have to be in the Potting Shed...) -
Message 41
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Monday, 21st September 2009
Nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon but shop or mind the kids and nothing to celebrate or commiserate over with their mates.Â
If one's ability to lead a fulfilled and happy life depends on such hideous exhibition of incompetence and ghastliness, well...
As for caring about one's own children being less important than "comiserating with your mates", perhaps one doesn't quite deserve children. -
Message 42
Posted by Terjon (U7750022) on Monday, 21st September 2009
Couldn't agree more! I've just discovered this board and I'm so pleased to hear that others feel as I do. Why do the people who commission this programme think that they are producing a series that is made for people who have no attention span?
If a programme like this was made for any other enthusiasm in any other field it would have been taken off the schedule pretty smartly. Just because there is a loyal following we are given anything or maybe if the figures get so low they'll be able to drop the programme altogether and say it was because the audience had disappeared! -
Message 43
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Monday, 21st September 2009
Trillium!! There's plenty to do on a Saturday that doesn't involve mindless ball play.
Gardening for one - assuming we get something on a Friday pm that will inspire us to get out there. -
Message 44
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 21st September 2009
Re 'nothing else to do' etc. - a bit of purple prose and a gross generalisation on my part, of course. And perhaps comparing football fans and GW diehards doesn't carry far, given the negative perception of football supporters and the positive self-image of gardeners.
I simply meant to illustrate the sense of loss when something you enjoyed as part of the long-standing fabric of your life is gone. If there was no GW on a Friday night it would feel like I had lost something. Of course I could find a new hobby or chat to the OH more, or phone the kids (again) to see how life is. But I do plenty of all of that already. I don't want to more of any of those things, I just want to watch a good gardening programme, just once a week.
So that's why I haven't ripped up my season ticket and flounced out yet. I want to be among the first to celebrate when we get a really cracking programme, not one of the ones feeling they'd missed something because they'd changed channel on principle.
Viewing numbers will fall markedly in the next few weeks anyway. GW simply cannot compete with Strictly on a Friday night, unless they reschedule GW for 8pm. -
Message 45
Posted by SilverGalanthus (U13903849) on Monday, 21st September 2009
Re: Alys and her teacup bulb present.
I couldn't help wondering what a pallaver it would be to buy a diamond drill bit and drill into the bottom of each delicate teacup. Cue: numerous failed attempts as gardeners try and drill a hole into dozens of cups only for them to crack and shatter whilst they get the hang of it. I suppose they could then make good crocks for the bottom of proper bulb containers. -
Message 46
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Monday, 21st September 2009
I'm always terribly admiring of fans who burn their season tickets in public in protest.Â
I detect a gentle sarcasm - but I'm smiling. No, there are really no regrets. Neither my wife nor myself bother about it, and missing this particular series of GW isn't a hardship. However, it would be disingenuous to suggest that I don't feel angry that one of the few TV programmes I actually did sit down to watch has now become unwatchable (for us).
BTW - who did you play for?Â
It was a Scottish First Division club quite a few decades ago. However, a combination of an attractive girl, a niggling injury and outside career opportunities conspired to make me decide to give it up at the tender age of 20 (I still hang on to the nice letter I subsequently received from the then manager telling me how sorry everyone at the club was - a pity he didn't tell me how much they were all about to earn). -
Message 47
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Monday, 21st September 2009
..the positive SELF-IMAGE of gardeners.Â
My grandmother always says that being aware of your own shortcomings is a hopeful sing... -
Message 48
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Monday, 21st September 2009
OR even sign!
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Message 49
Posted by rainonroses (U10426712) on Tuesday, 22nd September 2009
As one of those who ripped up my GW season ticket much earlier in this season, I returned a couple of weeks or so ago to see if there had been any improvements. There haven't.
Do I feel I've missed something because I've changed channel on principle? No.
I'm flouncing back off again now, folks, until the start of the next GW season, if there is one. I have just about been managing to fill my empty Friday evenings without GW, although buoyed by the thought that OH is buying me Monty Don's new book for my birthday next month. I'm hoping to be reassured that real gardening still exists.
I'm with Ken on this one - hanging on week after week, just in case, only gives them the comfort of illusion. -
Message 50
Posted by ArtemisHP (U12217956) on Tuesday, 22nd September 2009
hanging on week after week, just in case, only gives them the comfort of illusion.Â
They derive comfort from the fact that "on pain of death" (or fines and imprisonment) we must pay them whatever they decide they want.
They are under no illusion as to our inability to effect a meaningful change thus their offensive arrogance.
I truly expect Murdoch to start charging me for his papers, which I neither want nor read!
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