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Gardeners' World 9th October
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Message 1.Â
Posted by saima_host (U13967342) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Hi all
a clip from tonight's show is available at
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Message 2
Posted by Amazing (U7102651) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Surely Toby should have put some water onto the compost before he planted the tree, looked pretty dry to me.
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Message 3
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Friday, 9th October 2009
Hello All
Apart from the out of focus camerawork in Carols garden and in the chap with the beautiful allotment garden the show has definitely making strides forward to something like a gardening program, but the zoom in and fade out will never be anything but a millstone around the neck of the show IMHO. What other program would allow this guff on their show?
I am also curious to find out with the experiment on the apricot planted on an east facing wall and I appreciate the thinking behind letting it come into flower later so as the bees can do the job of pollinating. Maybe odds on to fail there, but we'll see.
Also a final note, the lady on tonight as a contestant for GOTY had an absolutely fabulous garden, the winner IMHO, but surely she must have had help to achieve the end results with the garden being so large and maybe defeating the principle of Gardener of the year instead of GardenerS of the year, just a thought. -
Message 4
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Friday, 9th October 2009
And where I come from we call that a LAKE, beautiful as it is. Yes the programme has improved but Alys replanting Violas the compost was dust dry. C'mon pleez, it's not rocket science.
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Message 5
Posted by dottiesue (U14136301) on Friday, 9th October 2009
yes I wasn't convinced that she did that all by herself and therefore thought it should not have been eligible. I thought gardener of the year was for amateurs.
Thought the voting details ate into air time - could just have put a picture and name/number to call during the titles at the end of the show - I went to put the kettle on. -
Message 6
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
yes I wasn't convinced that she did that all by herself and therefore thought it should not have been eligible. I thought gardener of the year was for amateurs.Â
Exactly! Which is why it wouldn't get my vote...(always assuming I would in a fit of recklessness) wish to further swell the coffers of the beeb. -
Message 7
Posted by jungle_jane (U1807090) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Watch Toby marking out a new bed for the fruit trees with a spade and barely skimming the top off the turf was quite awful for me to watch I thought.
I don't know about everyone else but I would use a half moon edger to get mark out bits of the lawn he didn't want, much less work, a deeper cut and a neater line.
That's just me though, but he barely took the lawn up I thought. -
Message 8
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Hello jungle_jane
There is method in his madness because if he would have dug the patch properly then he would have exposed the clay soil, erm sorry, sandy clay loam soil. Did you notice that he emptied the compost all over the patch and then the camera went to another scene then came back and the patch was well mixed with the compost. It is clay soil Toby but if it makes you happy we will call it sandy clay loam if you like.
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Message 9
Posted by Sam (U13967940) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Seriously guys you have got pthetic now, you've ran so short of things to moan about you now moan about stuff that happend weeks ago.
If it annoys you that much, don't watch. It has to appeal to everyone you know, not just a select group of grumpy old men and women.
Anyway, really enjoyed it and found it usefull. Liked Toby's advise on fruit trees, I will try and get some asap! -
Message 10
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
I got the impression that because the whole lawn area was going to be turned into a fruit cage in the very near future it didn't matter about that square being neat because I'm sure Toby said that he wanted to plant the tree then to show that aspect.
Does it really matter that we didn't see him dig it over. He is the presenter of the programme not the actual gardener. It is the same at Beechgrove. An actual gardener does most of the work. -
Message 11
Posted by Sam (U13967940) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
Exactally Sue, and how boring would it be to watch him
dig it all, the show would be over and all we would see is someone digging! It's a 30 minute show! -
Message 12
Posted by pinktequila (U2803141) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
I really do worry about some viewers, how can anyone defend planting a blackcurrant in the middle of an expanse of meadow grass? if the whole area is going to be for fruit then prepare the area properly first and lay out the plants properly it looked a complete shambles. what was the point of the item if it doesn't show how to do something. I reslly hope people aren't watching the programme and then going out and doing the same thing because they are setting themselves up to fail with very scrappy work.
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Message 13
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
Well that's exactly how I did the vegetable area in my garden. Our lawn had been the field behind, so yes it was an expanse of meadow grass.
I took my 3 raised beds from my old allotment in Stoke and basically plonked them on this lawn roughly where I knew my kitchen garden was going to be. The fencing and more beds and paths came much later when a)I had the time to do them and b)could afford to. But the beauty was that I had a whole season of something growing which I wouldn't have had otherwise. We would simply have been mowing instead of growing.
I imagine a lot of people garden on very much the same lines. The garden evolves.
Preparing the fruit garden will be a winter job when they're not on air and true we won't see that but it will be only removing the turf and improving the soil and making paths and how many times have we seen that courtesy of AT and GH.
Nor do I want to see a fruit cage erected.
By the way, my kitchen/vegetable garden has not failed or is scrappy and is probably larger than if I'd fenced it in first. In fact it wouldn't have been fenced if it wasn't for rabbits and sheep but I like the end result. -
Message 14
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
And I forgot to add, I am not new to gardening either. In fact I've probably learned over the years to let it flow and not get too stressed about it.
Geoff Hamilton was my hero. In fact he persuaded me to become organic in my methods. Percy T and Peter S were too much old school but I still watched them and learned but I'd hate the programme to go back to those days. -
Message 15
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
Hello Sam
Nobody has complained about things that happened weeks ago, we were discussing what happened on this weeks show incase you hadn't noticed. You sure know a lot for a newby gardener and you will be great one day after following all the great advice that you have gotten from the great new series of GW. Why should they show digging when everybody knows, without seeing how its done,how to do it? You're ageist comments are typical of youngsters who know it all and regardless that people having been watching GW longer that you have been on the planet, we should stop watching it because know it alls don't like us commenting about dodgy info given out on the flagship gardening program. You must have a lot of money to buy new plants every time one dies following the advice given out by Buckland and his dodgy crew but so be it, if its on GW then it must be good information. If the apricot gives any good results, which it won't, at least the fruit nurseries will have made a packet selling to gullible "experts". -
Message 16
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
The point with G.W inlike the ordinary gardener is that they are not spending their own money. They can try every mad brained scheme in the book but at the end of it it is no financial loss to them. We all remember Monty and the rusty obelisks at £150 each. I wonder where they went. Now we have a greenhouse that is used very little as most plants are bought in. This is not gardening in the most basic terms its just rubbish. Geoff Hamilton showed you how to do things and he gave you good sensible cheap ways to do it if you were on a low budget. If new gardeners think what they are being shown is good thats even worse. I like the bits from Carols garden because it is her home and a real garden. I know people find Carol over enthusiastic but she does know her plants and is not afraid to make mistakes and admit to them. At least she has some integrity by not appearing at this other stupid site where its like watching Zippy and Bungle messing about. As for Joes allotment i think he should concentrate on garden design as its been a farce right from the first program. Has he also deserted the sinking ship? As for the gardener of the year how pathetic was that. There are not enough words to apologise to the entrants it was a disgrace.
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Message 17
Posted by poshHebeJeebie (U9319867) on Sunday, 11th October 2009
well said, LPM I have lost all faith in GW. But Geoff (and Alan) were real hands-on gardeners who you could follow, and, more importantly, believe in
But my absolute hero was Geoffrey Smith. I just loved his enthusiasm and hands-on approach.
PHJ -
Message 18
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Planting apricot on the east seems mad to me, I've already moved my (potted) camellias around the house to face west. Frost + first sun = scorched buds IMHO.
"Lady with the lake", madness.
"Planting" the blackcurrant in the grass...was this the Ö÷²¥´óÐã still upset that we laughed when they made the Radio 1 DJ have a tiny veg plot in her lawn? -
Message 19
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 12th October 2009
If I had a huge east facing wall and wanted to grow fruit on it, I'd have chosen a Morello cherry. If I really wanted to grow apricots, I'd have created a south facing sheltered screen like a fence or something like that. The pollination issue isn't one as you can hand pollinate if need be.
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Message 20
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Hello Trillium
Most fruit tree growers know about hand pollination to increase yield but what is your opinion on Toby planting the apricot on an east facing wall so as the flowering will be later to co-incide with the bees being about? ?Good, bad or worth a try? -
Message 21
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 12th October 2009
LR:
To produce ripe apricots successfully, you need 1. frost free weather while the blossom is out or it will be burnt off as our plum blossom was in April 2008
2. pollinators around at the same time as the blossom
3. warm sunshine to ripen the fruit.
If you had to compromise on these, you can attempt to protect the plant during cold weather to solve the first problem, but will probably still get a poor crop as it will be reluctant to flower and you'll have to hand pollinate under the fleece anyway. The middle one is the easiest to solve, with a little soft brush. The last one is the hardest - it's tricky to simulate heat and sunshine outdoors. So I think you are more likely to get cropping problems because of 1 and 3 on an east wall anyway, regardless of whether there are pollinators around.
Given that it's a brand new garden and they can create any structures they want to, then I can't see why an apricot had to go on an east wall at all, when it would have much more chance on a south wall. It was a good quality, fan trained one too - not cheap.
Personally I've found that on lovely mild spring days when early blossom is out, then the garden is buzzing with insects of all kinds. With all the rumours about low bee numbers this spring, I painstakingly hand pollinated one side of the plum and pear trees, but got the much the same crop on both sides anyway. -
Message 22
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Monday, 12th October 2009
Hello Trillium
Your 3rd paragraph was the one I was most interested in although the other ones were very informative. Surely this information was available to Toby about frost damage to the buds and that the apricot planting was doomed to failure with an east facing position? I'm all for experimenting with plants in the garden but should the nation's head gardener be wasting money in this way? or is he just doing what he is told? -
Message 23
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 12th October 2009
I wouldn't say it's doomed, LR. Quite possibly it will produce some nice apricots in a favourable season. But I would place odds on a poor crop more than 50% of the time.
By contrast a morello cherry would be almost certain to produce a good crop on that wall. There's an enormous one growing on the north facing wall of the walled garden at Tatton, in Cheshire. -
Message 24
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
Hello Trillium
When I said doomed to failure I meant in the context of fruit production, the tree will probably grow alright but with prior knowledge that if you want to plant an apricot or other soft stone fruit for the best harvest possible, in the best position, then why plant it in an east facing wall? I just can't fathom that one out especially with the cost as you say of an expensive fan trained tree. I can hear my dear old Journeyman's voice ringing in my ears "if you do that again I'll put my boot where the sun doesn't shine, now dig it up and plant it where it should be, you plant molester"
bless him. -
Message 25
Posted by SparklyTwirler (U14172124) on Tuesday, 13th October 2009
I thought he said it was an experiment.Something to do with it producing blossom later when there was a better chance of pollination.
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Message 26
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
Hello SparklyTwirler
An experiment? See post 3 when the later pollination was first mentioned. In my book experiments should be carried out with the purpose to achieve better results with something to compare to, like planting soft fruit trees in a sheltered south facing position alongside an east, north, west facing position so we can judge for ourselves if the flight of fancy experiments work better than normal, otherwise what is the point if you have nothing to compare to? Do you not think that all the apricot nursery people have tried and tested positions where the plants succeed the best? That way saving time, money and disappointments(more sales) for their clients by putting plants in the right place from the start. Having read the newspaper column it seems Buckland won't be on GW in 5 years,(yes that long
), having left a legacy that he can be proud of , for us all to admire and remember him by.
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