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Edwardian Farm
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Message 1.Â
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Wednesday, 10th November 2010
The first episode of 12 starts on Ö÷²¥´óÐã2 tonight at 8pm.
In this new series archaeologists Alex Langlands and Peter Ginn team up with historian Ruth Goodman as they move to Morwellham Quay in Devon and try to take the port - once one of Britain's busiest - back to life as it was during its Edwardian heyday.
They begin by setting up home in a cottage as they wait for the arrival of their first livestock, and set out to prepare the ground for cropping by making tonnes of quicklime fertiliser to neutralise the acidity of the soil.
I’m staring this thread on the basis that when the Ö÷²¥´óÐã screened The Victorian Farm sometime ago, we had a really interesting thread running alongside here and although it wasn’t strictly about gardening, it was allowed to run (probably because horticulture & agriculture are closely linked) for the duration of the series. Let’s hope this one does too. -
Message 2
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Wednesday, 10th November 2010
Hello DK - Thanks for the reminder - I hope people enjoy watching the new series.
I didn't see the beginning, but saw the making of the haystack & what followed. Maybe I ought to look at I-player before saying anything more, but can't resist as the stacking seemed a bit odd to me. I'm old enough to remember farming in pre Jones Balers days when we did have working horses on our farm. Why did the presenter go on about staddle stones & the fact that using these meant the vermin (rats) "couldn't reach the grain" - & then stack hay rather than corn? Haystacks were more often directly on the ground. I remember them. I still have an old hay knife in my garden shed. It's enormous - the blade's almost 3ft long, with the wooden handle set in a curved metal arm & at right angles to the blade. The hay was sliced from the stack as needed, during the winter months.
They wouldn't have pitchforked (we call them pikels) the hay on to the ground before handling it once more to stack it - more likely they'd have stood on the cart - but the cart they would have used would have had four wheels, not two, and thus would have been much more stable. The hay they used in the programme looked awful stuff to me & not worth stacking! You can tell, I'm cringeing already.................. and as for the way they handled the horse...well.......................oh dear!
It'll be interesting to see what they do next week - did they say "market gardening"? Cheers! Ma. -
Message 3
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Wednesday, 10th November 2010
Don't know about down south, up here in the north east we threw down a bed of brushwood then stacked the hay on that.
We used a four wheeled hay wain which was a rulley or flat bed cart with extended sides and a high front to hold the hay from the fields and then tossed straight onto the stack.
Corn oats and barley would be in the stack yard and thatched to keep it dry until the threshers came.
I had sheep's head broth but never saw the sheep's head it was taken out and given to the dogs.
I think they are piling it on a bit.
Frank. -
Message 4
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Morning Frank - the same here ref stacks! and sheep's head! My own Ma's friend (the local butcher's wife) made brawn from pigs' heads & it was sold in their shop. There was a slaughterhouse behind the shop & we had a cattle market in the town in those days, so some of our stock was sold there, walked a few hundred yards down the street to meet their fate & the meat was bought & subsequently eaten by local customers - all this within a half-mile or so of the farm. No "food miles" to speak of there!
I was surprised too at the statement that the sheep were given hard feed from a trough to stop them getting parasitic worms. These live in/on the soil - so does grass - sheep eat grass - sheep therefore also ingest worms from that grass....... they still do.... Troughs were used - and still are - to minimise wastage caused by stock trampling on the hard feed, and long troughs (not like that granite one, which looked more like a sink to me) were/are still used to ensure that all the animals can reach the feed at the same time so that it doesn't get snaffled by the strong bullying ones.
I remember the threshing machines so well! A favourite family story is that one morning one of the belts frayed & my Pa went to the agricultural machinery suppliers in the nearest big town to get a replacement. He had to go, as the contractors had arrived via the steam engine & Pa's car was the only vehicle available. He came in to lunch later on & said that he'd just found a mouse in his trouser leg. It must have crawled up whilst he was in the stackyard, travelled all the way to the town & back without moving & ended up on our bootroom floor, having fallen out of his trousers! He said he'd felt something scratchy whilst driving but thought it was a barley stalk!!! Cheers! Ma. -
Message 5
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Oh Yes!
Please keep this thread going, very interesting to read the own observations and memories alongside what is shown on the programme itself - hope you don't get too irritated with the programme to watch it though PG and HCF! -
Message 6
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Ma, I'm glad I started this thread, if only to read your wonderful observations and to give others the joy of reading them too.
I wouldn't pretend to have your in depth knowledge of the doings of the countryside, but being from rural background myself, I do see and understand that there are a few discrepancies in this first episode.
I wait with interest their attempts to breed & rear poultry - there, nothing will pass me by. -
Message 7
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Ma
The farm at Goathland ran hill sheep, a very hardy breed which took little looking after.
A sheep dip once a year, round them up to check the feet and clean the bottoms of wool was about it. Uncle Arthur and I would walk up the moors with the dogs and he would say "right Bess bring dolly down", the dogs would vanish and reappear with a sheep, me in my childlike innocence wonder how the dogs knew the sheep's name. A sense of humour had Uncle Arthur but remembered with love. In deep snow we would take hay up for them knowing they would be in the shelter of walls or banks, those sheep had brains.
I also remember picking buckets of Bilberries and all the women of the family making bilberry jam pies bottling them and us lot eating hot pies fresh from the oven with custard, my mouth still waters at the memory.
Killing a pig was a big event, I lit the boilers two of them for boiling water then we rigged up the pulley gear and had the tables scrubbed and ready.
Tommy Hutchinson the local Butcher arrived with his humane killer, the pig roped through the nose ring and his head pulled down firm so it was a single shot and gone, I never saw Tommy miss and when I started to do the shooting I never missed either, we loved those pigs enough to make it quick and easy.
The pig was bled into a bucket and I had to keep the blood slowly stirring as that was Tommy's plus the head for brawn the blood for black pudding.
The pig was dumped into a large tin bath and scrubbed with boiling water to get the hair off then hauled up and opened and jointed, nothing was wasted so we lived on heart liver sweetbreads and anything else that came out..
A week of salting down every day of the sides and hams then they were hung in a dark cool place for several months before eating.
When the farm at Goathland was sold another general farm was bought with mixed animals and crops, my memory of the sheep feeding where galvanised troughs wide at the top narrow at the bottom with bands over them to stop the sheep climbing in, they also got the run of the orchard before we let the pigs in there, they kept the grass down.
Frank. -
Message 8
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Hello again - thanks for your lovely comments DK - it's self-indulgence on my part, as I sometimes enjoy trips down memory lane & the programme did remind me of some of the things which were commonplace when I was a small child.
Margaretstar - no, I don't think Frank & I will stop watching!
It'll be interesting to see what they say about poultry - not my "thing" really, tho' of course we did have chickens/hens/cockerels & some other poultry for our own food. I've a lovely photo of my sister as a toddler standing beside a goose, which is as tall as she was then, at about 2 years old. My aunt, who lived with us, seemed to be the one whose job it was to deal with them. I would help her pluck the cockerels (I think Pa killed them, but small children didn't see those things) but couldn't face drawing & dressing them though! I can remember her teasing me with a chicken foot. She'd hold on to the tendons & pull them, so that the claws opened & closed. Ugh! I was given a trio of bantams, but somehow couldn't bring myself knowingly to eat their eggs. I bet I did, actually, if I'd been told they were pullets' eggs. We used to have turkeys for growing on - would get them at about 3 weeks old, as Ma said there were too many losses if you got them as day-olds. We'd take orders for Christmas & I remember seeing the table in what we called "the bottom kitchen" with up to 50 dressed birds on it . It was my job to get the tweezers & pull out the bits of feather which hadn't been properly plucked out, & then singe them with a taper to get rid of those teeny weeny hairy bits. When battery farming came on the scene, Pa had a go at that,, but soon gave up & sold the cages etc on, as he didn't like the whole thing at all - nothing to do with profit/loss - he could be a bit of a softie at times & preferred to see them acting normally outside.
You can tell I'm a bit bored today - the weather's too awful for me to get outside & do other things. Cheers! Ma. -
Message 9
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Hi Frank - we cross-posted - is the weather keeping you indoors today too? The pig slaughtering bit was something we girls weren't allowed to see. My paternal grandmother used to smoke hams in the chimney - nobody allowed to have any until the first new potatoes were ready.
We had Welsh sheep. My Pa was Welsh & spoke Welsh too, but had lived outside Wales for most of his adult life so had no Welsh accent. His brothers were farmers too, but still in Wales & so most of our sheep came from them - as did the sheepdogs. However, Pa would sometimes go to market in mid-Wales to buy more sheep & would come home chuckling about the fact that the farmers there would make comments about him in Welsh, saying things like "this Englishman'll probably pay another shilling a head for this lot" - not realising, of course, that he could follow their conversations!
The Welsh sheep were real nuisances sometimes - Pa'd say they'd find a little hole in the hedge & spend all day making it big enough for them to escape. I'd go down with him sometimes to count them at night - have memories of their eyes showing up in the headlights. He'd say "count the legs and then divide by four"......... He'd have been 110 this year................. I'm sad & happy just thinking about him right now. Ma. -
Message 10
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Bored Ma I doubt it, bet you are bustling around between runs on the board.
Dad had a small holding as well as his Haulage business, we had geese ducks hens, as well as pigs rabbits a goat and other odd animals from time to time. I did spend a lot of my spare time on the farm which was close by.
He produced his own chicks so the eggs were incubated then would appear on boxes with plenty of newspaper on the large range hearth one of those multi oven boiler type ranges all black-lead and never went out. So my sister and I had fluffy yellow chicks to play with and thought it quite normal as it was a village surrounded by farms.
After sexing they would be put in the runs, cocks for fattening up in one run and the egg layers in the other, never the twain shall meet.. Each run in turn including ducks and geese would get the run of the large walled garden and helped to keep down the insects. It was nothing to hear Mother yelling get out of my kitchen to some errant duck or hen, the geese got the broom.
We had Goose for Christmas and Chicken for New Year, I had never heard of turkey apart from in America.
The rest were killed by dad and ploated as we called it by mother and like you I had the pliers and burning wand. mother had to push me out of the way as a kid because I wanted to see what came out, curious about the mechanics of things even at that age.
They fed on the best and that was all the animals and tasted far different from the modern ones we get. Chicken for most people was a once or twice a year event, you rarely saw them in Butchers shops before Christmas. They had natural runs ate natural food so although we did get the odd sick one they were healthy stock as a rule.
Frank. -
Message 11
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Hello Ma,
Very good to see you active again, missed you when you were not posting too much.
It was a great trick listening in when people think you do not know the language, once in Germany we listened to some "neo's" insulting us troops, they had been putting fear into the landlady and barmaids of the pub we used.
When I saw one ask for more of the free beer I whispered in his shell like, "you were made behind a house of ill repute in Hamburg so shut up and pay for your beer, all of it" after a shocked look he threw the punch, big mistake, as we piled them into their cars which somehow got broken windscreens and told them not to come back, I still smile at that night.
All sheep have what I call a Colditz mentality, they can find an escape rout anywhere and the little critters can move fast when they want to, I have been upended more than once by them.
It is quite sunny at the moment with some blue sky although very cold I have a day off my usual running around although the house is now spotless and I must go do some shopping later.
Dad would have been 107 mother 1o4 and yes I miss them for their solid good-sense and what they gave me, that was a good start in life so many kids of my age back then had a very hard time of it.
Frank -
Message 12
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Very entertaining, please keep posting as it's fascinating....but I'm glad I was born and bred in London......and even gladder that I am a vegetarian lol
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Message 13
Posted by As_Iff (U13951957) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
It`s great to read these old stories, love the story about the mouse.
Yes, I remember when skirting boards really did have mouse-holes in them, like in the old Tom and Jerry cartoons. -
Message 14
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Lowena,
Different time different place.
All crops were seasonal and mainly apart from the big city's you ate what was in your own garden, in winter when we had greens and root vegetables we too were vegetarians for part of the week but not by choice.
Meat on Sunday, cold on Monday, rissoles on Tuesday was not a saying without truth in it. No fridges or freezers we had cold pantries and ours was partly sunk so that mother cooked pies put them in there and we could eat them for tree days without problems.
Hens lay in season too so we had a glut of eggs then none in winter till spring so we put them down in isinglass it was in powdered form from fish swim bladders and preserved eggs wonderfully. We had a large stone pot into which the isinglass was put with water then the fresh eggs were placed gently into the water, the isinglass covered the eggs keeping the air out and we had fresh tasting eggs for cooking through the winter, they went further in cakes etc but we would have the odd one for breakfast.
Many kids not as lucky as I was never got more than one hot meal a week and that was if dad was working, you can choose to eat what you wish Lowena those kids had no choice, this was modern times remember.
Hungry people eat what is available and it was often said during the war, a cat with its skin off looks like a rabbit, in other words needs must.
Be glad you have the choice, I have the choice to be a meat eater although it is a small amount of what goes on my plate, I love vegetables, Yorkshires the lot and we had no soya steaks back then a tin of spam if we were lucky or in our case meat from the farm.
I love London having visited it many times but that is what I like I can visit then go home to peace and quiet away from the maddening crowds.
Frank. -
Message 15
Posted by Twiggy (U3854938) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Thank you David for starting this thread. Missed last night's programme but will catchup on Iplayer.
I know nothing about country living so reading the posts from Ma and Frank are real eyeopeners and extremely interesting. My dad used to keep chickens and rabbits but I would have thought that quite a lot of people did so during and after the War. Have never eaten rabbit though! -
Message 16
Posted by As_Iff (U13951957) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
I`ve just watched Edwardian Farm on the iPlayer. It was interesting, but, if they are following the customs of the times, I thought they might have said grace before eating dinner.
You don`t see it done much these days, only in old films, but it was common for ordinary people in those times to offer a short prayer before eating the main meal of the day. -
Message 17
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Probably compared to Ma & Frank (not by much) I'm the new kid on the block here.
During the last war and during the period of austerity following it (well into the 1950s, in fact) almost everyone kept a few backyard chickens to supplement their meagre rations. At this time, breeding chickens for sale varying from one day old to point of lay was a lucrative business.
It was at this time when I became involved in the hatchery business on a commercial scale…..I visualise my Little Grey Fergie as I type.
Btw, Ma – those stubby feathers you used to pull out with tweezers were ‘pin feathers’. These were new feathers forming usually following a moult. -
Message 18
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Hello again DK - the things I used to singe were a bit like little whiskers - not like feathers at all. Would they be what you mean? - these were on turkeys, not chickens, by the way. The birds were always dry-plucked.
Fergie wouldn't have been any good for us - ground too clayey - so the horses were superseded by a Fordson, if my memory serves me right. I was watching the local contractor harvest forage maize for sileage the other week - my own Pa would have been fascinated to see how this particular machinery worked - we did eventually have a combine harvester of our own, but I have memories of crawling underneath stooks of wheat or oats - & also the threshing machine's visit in the autumn as I mentioned earlier. Before they could get the horses in with the binder, they'd have to scythe a patch & also round the edge of the field. I still have Pa's scythe hanging up in the shed. Am still using his garden spade, by the way, & there's a "proper" muck shovel stashed away there too.
Ref rabbits etc Frank, do you think they aren't as big nowadays as they used to be? A roast stuffed rabbit would feed our whole family then, but the pesky little b.....s I see in my garden these days are very small by comparison. Side effect/result of Myxi, do you think?
Looking forward to hearing your comments about chickens & so on, DK . Ma. -
Message 19
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Ma - No, the 'pin feathers' were dark blue in colour and resembled wood splinters on the surface of the skin....those ‘hairs’ you refer to are (as you say) just hairs.
We used a methylated spirits flame to singe-off these; this was because it was a smoke-free flame that didn't stain the chicken/turkey's flesh. -
Message 20
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Hello again DK - thanks for the explanation! There were usually some of those pin feathers too, but I didn't know what they're called - until now... thank you! Ma.
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Message 21
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
Ma,
Rabbits ran free in their hundreds and were bigger, most we get these days are from China, I am told!
I went with my cousin shooting them for the pot at a very young age with a small bore shot gun, if I hit the rabbit it would be out long enough to neck chop it, my cousin did that.
Aunt Mabel would say go bring some rabbits and shoot them in the head I do not want lead in my pies. We would bring them and hang them on the barn wall for a day, the fleas dropped off and tasted better if left to hang but not as long as Hares hung.
My father had a powerful catapult and was a deadly shot with it, he took it in the wagon with him and often brought back a brace of rabbits for the pot. I sat making lead shot for it by melting lead and pouring it into some pliers with a hole in a barrel shape on the end, the lead went in the hole, dip the pliers in a bucket of water, open them and we had a lead ball that only needed the cast tail filed off.
Our own rabbits were half tame with a hutch above the pig sty and a run outside they were smaller than the wild rabbits. One day he came down from the garden after feeding the animals and asked me what I had done with the rabbits. Nothing why, they are not there? we went back up and I crawled into the hutch to search the straw and found a hole in the floor.
We went into the sty and found a couple of fluffy tails and a couple of feet, they had gone through the hole and the pigs ate them. I do not know why they would eat rabbit when they got fed on cooked potato's I boiled them in a big boiler, cabbage root vegetables cake and lemon curd?? Dad took the containers of waste from Pumphreys jam factory and Sparks Bakery to be dumped but we also took some for the pigs they loved it.
We used heavy horses into the late forties with a shared wartime use of a Fordson tractor finally getting one of our own but Uncle Arthur would not let the heavies go.
Framers were not always the hard hearted folk people called them, they had to make a living though at times the heart ruled the head, he would keep a favourite old milker as a calf foster mother until she was old or ill and it was a kindness to put her to sleep.
Frank. -
Message 22
Posted by grandcottagegardener (U14258183) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
David - thanks for starting this thread. I watched the program on iplayer this afternoon.
I was in Devon a couple of weeks ago and fascinated by the number of lime kilns dotted around, although didn't appreciate the process until now. The ones I saw were always beside a river bank. Perhaps this location was ideal for transporting lime and coal in boats. -
Message 23
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Thursday, 11th November 2010
As you say Frank - each to their own
and I really do enjoy reading your reminisces.We were poor in London,in the 1950s, lived in rented 2 rooms and could only afford meat once a week. We had no garden and as my family had come down to London to look for work, from Yorkshire, where they lived in a back to back house, they wouldn't have known what to do with one had they had it
Having no "growing" background, I was in my 40s before I discovered gardening ( now a passion in my life) and that's why I lap up all the gardening programmes I can, and possibly am less critical as I am less knowledgeable ( although I hate the jazzy camera work).
I consider myself to be extremely fortunate to now be comfortably off,( many years of toiling up the professional ladder) have a large garden,( half an acre) which I love and able to learn from knowlegeable people both on here and on the tv -
Message 24
Posted by capricornbcaroline (U8618227) on Friday, 12th November 2010
My wonderful and aged neighbour watched this with interest as he first farmed in the horse age. He had various comments. As someone else has said there's no need to put hay above ground as the rats will only sleep in it, they won't eat it. He was sceptical about the thatching machine which he thought only came in during WWII when there was a shortage of skilled thatchers.
He also felt that the liming was wrong for a couple of reasons. The oats don't care much about the alkalinity of the soil (unlike brassicas and clover) so there was no real need to lime the ground. Lime apparently works from the top down and while he has limed grass what you wouldn't do, in his opinion, would be to plough after liming. Also they apparently (I'm watching this tonight so apologies if i've misunderstood what he's told me) had the horse going backwards over the lime thereby stamping it in.
And finally, he felt that if they were intent on education they might have made some reference to the reason for using raddle on the ram.
I loved the Victorian Farm and hope to enjoy this series too. This post is not intended as a criticism - just a few observations from an old hand. -
Message 25
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Hi, capricornbcaroline
I do understand that your post was intended as a criticism and hope your aged neighbour continue to enjoy the series.
I think a few of us have already noticed a few inaccuracies, but will continue to watch & enjoy.
I take your point about plants not requiring lime, but in fairness, I understood the limed ground was intended for growing potatoes. -
Message 26
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Woops!
please read first line of previous post 'I do understand that your post was /not/ intended as a criticism'. -
Message 27
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Friday, 12th November 2010
But DavidK:
potatoes don't like lime, they prefer an acid soil!
I was a little perplexed by this but thought "Oh well, it must be for the oats".
Now if oats aren't fussy............................hmm somebody wasn't watching
the sequencing then - perhaps they'd originally thought to grow kale? -
Message 28
Posted by Summerchild (U14187397) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Haven't seen any of the programmes but I am loving this thread.
We kept chickens from day old chicks and they became delinquents and led us a merry dance, but we loved them. The dog would chase the chickens and then at an unknown signal they would all about turn and the chickens would chase the dog. All of them came up the path to meet us on return from school.
This is nothing like farming but your memories stirred up mine.
More please.
Summer -
Message 29
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Hello Caroline - I wondered about the raddle too but thought I'd better shut up a bit!
I'd commented about their handling of the horse before I'd watched the whole thing - at first I only saw it from the bit where they made the stack, but later (on I- player) saw a snippet of two horses "taking off" , so my fears were justified & had been confirmed when I saw how they were dealing with the cart & the liming! It would have made sense for them to grow things like kale & mangolds for winter keep. The thing about the thatching made me think a bit too - I wondered later whether they plan to empty the hayloft first and then put the hay from the stack in the loft in one go - otherwise it'll be spoiled when they lift the thatch to get to it - they'll not be able to replace the thatch each time.
It amused me too that it seemed we need a lesson in how to scrub a floor! What a pity she did it before they'd checked the flue! I think they'd have had a proper flue brush to use via the little hatch she finally opened. I know we had one. She'd have needed to wash her dress too afterwards, as I don't think she was kneeling on a mat or anything - unlike our daily help (the much beloved Mrs Hayes) who taught me how to do numbers by using her scrubbing brush to make the correct shapes for me in the soapsuds. It took ages for me to be able to do a "proper" figure 8..... Please ask your neighbour to let us know what he thinks about future episodes - I'd love to hear that. Apart from a wooden settle beside the fire, that kitchen was just like my Nain's - in North Wales.
Bet you can all tell I'm enjoying this trip down memory lane. Cheers! Ma. -
Message 30
Posted by capricornbcaroline (U8618227) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Oh, thank you for being interested in my neighbour's commentary. I certainly will feed back more from him.
Somehow, even though he started farming in the very early thirties he seemed to recognise almost everything that appeared on the Victorian Farm too. I told him about that seed distribution thing that you had round your waist and used a sort of bow to propel the seeds. Ah yes he said, he'd used one too when sowing a mix of grass seed and clover for a meadow. Sadly he hadn't realised that the grass seed is much smaller than the clover (or perhaps the other way around) so what he actually achieved was a half and half field as all the little seeds went through first. For me it just brings it all to life - one of those 6 degrees of separation things, me, him and the horse age!! -
Message 31
Posted by drwalter (U1365507) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Great show.
Shame that Ruth has had to have her gnasters "aged" with theatrical make-up.
I wonder if that the "lime kiln" hadn't worked the field could have been "watered" by Toby and Joe's wee? Would that have worked; it worked on the compost heap! -
Message 32
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Friday, 12th November 2010
But DavidK
potatoes don't like lime, they prefer an acid soil!Â
Hi, margaretstar
I just stated that, as I understood it, they intended to grow potatoes on the limed field. But as you mention it, potatoes need a neutral soil with a pH of between 5 or 6, so it follows acid soil will need lime applied. -
Message 33
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Rowena,
The post was not against your beliefs or what we choose to eat, I had gone back in my mind to a time when many things were not possible and probably sounded off as we said in the army.
As a kid we had so much, I did not realise it at the time and wondered why my mother invited all my class at junior school to my birthday parties.
We had a large garage for the truck it was cleaned, trestle tables put out and folding chairs.
The white covers on the table would be full of home made food including our own ham and bacon it all vanished. My Aunts would keep order among kids to whom it must have seemed like heaven.
I learned later it was mothers way of giving kids a good feed at least now and then because a lot of them were not too far off starving with fathers out of work. No dole back then to fall back on.
During the war mother would give me a bag and say put that behind Mrs so and so door, her husband is in the forces and she is struggling with maybe two or three kids. Don't let her see you do it.. People still had their pride and did not accept charity easily.
Houses in the village with no furniture apart from a crude table and a couple of hard chairs would still have gleaming door steps windows and pavements, they would be out scrubbing even if they had nothing to eat in the house.
I hear people say they are not well off today and it makes me spit, I saw poverty abroad which made our slums look like palaces. I know it is all relative to the standard of living in that country but if you have a roof food and some warmth then you are well off.
Rant over,
Frank. -
Message 34
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Hi again, Ma
Sorry for being a little late with this.
With reference to my message 17 and your reply in message 18, and our comments about tractors.
Given that your Pa farmed on heavy land, I can well see that the more powerful Fordson tractor would be more appropriate to his needs. However, my needs (being a just a hatchery) were quite different.
My Grey Fergie was mainly used for general transport around the farm, mucking out, moving the odd pig ark/chicken shed and so forth.
Another attraction for me was the 3 point linkage which revolutionised tractors and is still in use today.
Back to the Fordson; I hated that starting handle, which had a kick like a mule & could break your wrist in a trice. -
Message 35
Posted by As_Iff (U13951957) on Friday, 12th November 2010
I also noticed that she started the cleaning by scrubbing the floor.
I thought "Oh no, why scrub the floor first? Surely that would be the last job!" -
Message 36
Posted by hypercharleyfarley (U7444019) on Friday, 12th November 2010
Hello again DK - how things have changed ref tractors! I've not sat in/on one of the modern ones, but trundle along behind them in the lanes round here & see how comfortable & warm they all look now. Radios, heating, comfy seat - and the drivers have their mobile phones too! Plus you don't have to look after them much at the start & end of the day, and can merely get into the cab in the morning & start work straight away. I've no idea how prices compare with the early days - e.g. how many head of sheep/cattle = the price of a tractor these days? I read recently that the latest combines - with all mod cons including GPS - are somewhere around £340k.
Haven't a clue about starting the old ones - yet again it was one of those things we girls didn't get to do - sounds as if we couldn't have possibly managed to anyway. My sister did drive a tractor on the odd occasion though, but only to bring small stuff from the fields & so on. I'll have to ask her who started it!
There's a local vintage tractor club round here somewhere - they occasionally have rallies & I once counted 57 on a drive through the village one Sunday. Lots of Fergies - you'd have enjoyed that! Ma. -
Message 37
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Friday, 12th November 2010
The Fordson N I loved it as a lad it looked like a tractor, the David Brown looked more like a car to me.
A small tank for petrol to start and a big tank for kerosene or what ever you cared to put in it.
I took the plugs out and warmed them on the range then a squirt of petrol in the carb turn the petrol tank on, bring the handle up to TDC and not wrapping your thumbs round the handle swing it, off it would go, warm the engine then switch over to the kerosene and it would run all day.
My son has several mechanical appliances on the farm including a JCB which you get in press the starter and away you go in the comfort of a closed cab. His Pal in a farm just down the road has a Fergy with all the tools, he still uses it for every day things.
I watched the repeat tonight to see what I had missed and the floor stuck out like a sore thumb, we had a stone floor in the back kitchen which I sometimes scrubbed, it had a hole under the sink and I would say a very slight fall on the floor as I took a bucket of water out of the boiler in the corner and splashed it on the floor then spread some powder forget what it was but smelled of carbolic and scrubbed hard with a big bass broom especially for that job. I then rinsed the floor with more hot water and it all ran out of the hole under the sink. With the heat of the stove it was dry in no time.
The hole she was watching the smoke go up the chimney was a rodding hole for cleaning as some one pointed out and there were plenty of chimney cleaners back in the Edwardian times.
I think the heavy horses could smell the uncertain way they were handled, they understood command but kindly command.
Frank. -
Message 38
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Saturday, 13th November 2010
Frank - Thought you may be interested in this pic of a Fordson N series tractor (complete with fearsome crank handle)....note the little grey Fergie on the left.
-
Message 39
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Saturday, 13th November 2010
David,
And it still looks the business, I was never walloped by the handle because my Uncle showed me exactly how to swing it and I was a big lad.
I did drive a fergy in the army, we towed broken down trucks into the workshop for repair then I would go tearing all over the tank park on it, fast little beasts. Got into trouble for taking it down the lines and parking outside the Naafi.
Frank. -
Message 40
Posted by Michael SHAW (U7255042) on Monday, 15th November 2010
I agee with 'As-iff'
Seemed very obvious to me that Ruth should have had the chimney swept and the fire lit first; to save smuts, smoke etc ruining her ornaments et all. Then scrubbing the floor that would have dried just that little bit quicker with a bit of heat in the kitchen. Commonsense surely? -
Message 41
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Monday, 15th November 2010
Michael,
Forgive them they know not what they.
We were brought up in those surroundings, well I was, we learned from our elders who had learned from their elders the best way to do things.
Tables in kitchens scrubbed white with carbolic soap and a hard brush dried in the heat from the stove then covered with a cloth to keep clean for next days cooking, plus all the chopping boards of course.
They are academics thrown in at the deep end, we have to allow for that and look forward to the next lot of mistakes we can criticise. I still think they are piling it on a bit but then it is "err" entertainment but not to those who lived it.
Frank. -
Message 42
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Wednesday, 17th November 2010
Tonight’s episode (Ö÷²¥´óÐã2 8pm)
In October, the Edwardian farmers branch out into new ventures like market gardening, all-year-round egg production and beef cattle. After acquiring a beef herd, the team bring in a bull. They also begin training the shire horses for a year of work in the fields. And they take on a pair of goats who prove to be more than a handful at milking time.
Ruth preserves supplies for the winter: she pickles apples, salts a ham and smokes bacon. Peter visits a cooper and learns how to make a barrel, and Alex launches a chicken enterprise. Finally they see in the winter with Halloween - Edwardian style. -
Message 43
Posted by mummyduckegg (U8437139) on Wednesday, 17th November 2010
Well, re tonight's episode, I will repeat what I said in the Potting Shed:
I insist on watching Edwardian Farm despite the kids' protests ( I only usually choose at 9 when they go to bed. ) Last week they ignored it , but tonight after about half an hour were all sat watching and asking questions, and comparing to life today. Brilliant, I was so chuffed!
Now over to you experts to discuss/remember - I follow your comments with great interest! -
Message 44
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Thursday, 18th November 2010
I watched last nights programme with interest and came to the conclusion they are acting it out and probably out of many books, not the book of experience though.
Why debone the ham? My memory is of Dad pushing a long round knife sharpening steel down the length of the ham bone in several places then filling the hole with a mix of Saltpetre or Sodium Nitrate a preservative, this mix contained Demerara sugar and rum, it was forced down alongside the bone, the outside of the ham was salted as for a side of bacon. This was done over a period of several days.
The bacon sides would be mounted onto a scrubbed table with a boiled cloth on it and then salted from a bucket of salt by hand, no fancy salting bath for us, this also took several days. The hams and Sides were then hung in a cool dark place which happened to be the passage way to my bedroom which was very high. Hooks were fixed to the ceiling and to the hams and sides then a ladder used to heave them up and hang them, they were then left several months as we finished the previous hams and bacon. Dad getting on the steps and sawing off a square of bacon to last the week.
I may say here that I had porridge from the big pot hung over the stove overnight, (cut your self a slice of porridge was the saying) mixed with creamy milk from the farm and a spoonful of sugar or in Dads case salt.
That was followed every day by bacon, an egg if we had plenty, tomato from our own greenhouse in season mushrooms in season or what ever came out of a fresh killed animal and usually with fried bread and toast.
All killer food so the experts tell me yet I have outlived many of those experts?
As a lad I knew if you showed an unladen horse an open field they thought it was playtime. We trained them with full harness and a sled full of stone. We had short lead ropes a heavy plaited rope with a chain on one end to fasten to the head harness or bridle, walking alongside the head kept them calm.
We had a lime spreader which I am sure would have been around in those days, tipping it in blobs then having to use the harrow to spread it would have seemed like hard work not needed to most farmers.
Frank. -
Message 45
Posted by grandcottagegardener (U14258183) on Thursday, 18th November 2010
came to the conclusion they are acting it out and probably out of many books, not the book of experience thoughÂ
You are probably right Frank and in light of your description of how hams were prepared it's rather sad that the production team did not research from first handers. I suspect you asked your parents why they did things the way they did and their answer would have been ............this is how my father did it and his father before him. So, in other words, although you were not old enough to prepare hams in Edwardian times you still retain the first hand knowledge handed down from your parents.
It's a bit like picking up a new style cookery book. What's written inside the book is not how most people cook, but given the passage of time will there be a program based on early 21st century cookery and themed from the new style cookery book? Doesn't bear thinking about, does it.
Just a suggestion Frank - If you live fairly close to a working museum, I would urge you to get in contact with them. These museums are always seeking first hand knowledge and I think they would be more than pleased to accept your memories. My sister in law submitted photos and first hand knowledge of how things were and these are now posted at Blists Hill Museum. Your memories are important and should be held in a special place. -
Message 46
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Friday, 19th November 2010
Just a suggestion Frank - If you live fairly close to a working museum, I would urge you to get in contact with them. These museums are always seeking first hand knowledge Â
GCG,
We have a local Preston Park Museum where they have rooms full of all the stuff we threw out after the war and a Street of shops pubs a working Blacksmith which the Town threw out after the war. I wander round with my Grandchildren as do many pointing out that was how we lived and it was not all that long ago.
Then there is Beamish thirty miles away which is a working museum and well worth a visit if ever you come up this way. I often spot parts of it on TV as part of some play or History programme.
My main love is the local history run by the Library often adding articles which are published and at times sorting out local myths.
Having watched the Village I grew up in become part of the urban area though the main features of the Green with its pond and High Street have not altered apart from not being able to see much for the parked cars. There is still a local butcher killing his own meat locally sourced so we can still get the proper joints for cooking.
Don't get me wrong the Farm is trying to cover all aspects for people who have forgotten what it was like not so very long ago and possibly somewhere they did debone the Hams, I just never saw that done.
Once a year all our relatives who were miners in Durham came down to us for the Stockton Races, the garage was turned into a bedroom for the men and us lads whilst the house was for the women and girls.
A large Ham was baked, Bacon cooked and the baking went on for a week then all vanished in one weekend but what a fun weekend, well to us kids it was.
We were welcomed back for their miners Gala and hospitality repaid. Us fit young lads running the drag for the whippets to train for the big event the whippet race. Those whippets were the best looked after animals you ever saw, part of the family and I have seen a big tough miner cry when they went to whippet heaven.
The past is closer than we think.
Frank. -
Message 47
Posted by capricornbcaroline (U8618227) on Saturday, 20th November 2010
Here's the feedback from my lovely neighbour on this week's episode.
He's still unconvinced about the lime even with potatoes and oats on the land and just thinks it was an excuse to show liming albeit oddly by spreading before ploughing rather than the other way around.
On the horses he says he's never heard "walk on" used in real life. I think the phrase he would use is "Gid up" Also that "come by" or however its spelt was, in Kent at least, shepherd speak and not used with horses.
Being a yachtsman as well he wasn't fooled by that boat with the flapping sails, they must have had an engine in use. And as to having a ton of apples on board - not likely, the boat would have been much lower in the water.
Also surprised about the bottling of the apples. First why? and second, if you still want to, please fill the jars to the top to prevent all sorts of troubles.
And the bull - no nose ring? or if there was one why not use it with a lead or stick depending on temperament. -
Message 48
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Saturday, 20th November 2010
Your neighbour is spot on, the lime went on the cabbages and sprout fields, I never saw it go on potatoes.
With horses it was "Geeup" Whoa and a tongue click for left or right different ones of course.
"Come bye" and "away" plus whistles were for the dogs rounding up the sheep.
I was also surprised at the bull not being ringed, we used a heavy plaited lead rope and a jabber when leading the bulls, saying that, you could not hold a bull if it wanted to be off.
Never ever saw apples bottled, it was the main ingredient of sweet mince meat though along with a lot of dried fruit our own suet and a drop of brandy, the family made jars of it which went out to those of the family living in Town.
I think Caroline they are trying to give an overall picture of life back then, our pantry was a storehouse of bottled fruits and jams all done in the short period the fruit was ripe and lasted the winter into spring.
With laid down eggs potato's in what we called pies, laid down in straw and covered with earth so we used what we wanted over winter. Then in the garden were all the root veg and winter greens so we were fairly self sufficient.
Aunt Mabel made all the home made wines including some Cider, the Rhubarb wine was a cure all for any ills we may have, with cloves soaked in hot water lemon and the top up of wine you forgot you were ill.
Frank. -
Message 49
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Saturday, 20th November 2010
It’s a bit sad really, if it’s only going to be watched to highlight their shortcomings.
Re liming for potatoes, given the fact that it has already been said that the soil is extremely acidic, it may quite well be that liming would be needed inasmuch as potatoes need a neutral soil….I agree lime should be applied after ploughing.
Re horses commands, pure and simple a horse will obey whatever commands it has been taught.
For the record it was always ‘walk on’ (forward) and ‘whoa’ (stop) locally. I know of no commands for left or right, these were directed by the reins.
I agree about there being nothing like a ton of apples in that boat. In fact, it seems to me they are spreading themselves too thinly by taking on too many projects.
The chicken venture did make me smile. Half a dozen Light Sussex hens & an old 8’ x 6’ shed and they were selling a winter glut to local shops?
I think eggs may have been preserved in isinglass during that period, although widely used during WW2, I’m not really sure when it first became available. -
Message 50
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Sunday, 21st November 2010
It’s a bit sad really, if it’s only going to be watched to highlight their shortcomingsÂ
I agree about there being nothing like a ton of apples in that boat. In fact, it seems to me they are spreading themselves too thinly by taking on too many projectsÂ
The chicken venture did make me smile. Half a dozen Light Sussex hens & an old 8’ x 6’ shed and they were selling a winter glut to local shops?Â
"Err" yes Ken we get the point, "err I think".
My point is Ken we now know it is a composite programme trying to show the main areas of the Edwardian working farm which obviously changed very little until the war came along and even then everything being shown puts a light bulb on in my head saying it happened well into the fifties.
Apart from one or two obvious boobs like scrubbing the kitchen floor before cleaning the flu and lighting the fire and some mishandling of the animals which they do admit to, I enjoy watching and it does keep me awake and on the ball, you cannot say that of many TV shows.
If we add our experiences to this board then it shows an interest, plus some of the things that are obvious to those of us who lived it can be pointed out for all those who have no idea what happens on farms and small holdings.
I am waiting for the bit that shows the "Midden" the working heart and fuel for the farm fields "cum t'muck spredden tt'lad". We would load the cob cart with muck then set the old horse off up the field with two of us throwing the muck off the back in a spray across the field. The horse would keep a fair straight line and you got used to flinging the muck in a rhythm but still managed to get covered, probably why I was a six footer.
Isinglass was used as long as I have memory, the big stone jar in the coldest part of the pantry which we filled with a mixture of isinglass and water then began laying down the winter eggs which would be perfectly good down to the last to be used, mainly in cooking. (isinglass a collagen made from the swim bladders of fish).
So Ken I look forward to the next show with interest and will no doubt have something to say, "From the mouths of the old we learn, but not always wisdom"?
Frank.
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