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Italian Gardens
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Sunday, 17th April 2011
Just wondered what everyone thought of the first programme.
I enjoyed it, although thought the pace of the programme was slow.
You can certainly see similarities between the grand gardens of Rome and MD's own garden. -
Message 2
Posted by garyhobson (U11055016) on Sunday, 17th April 2011
Well, I enjoyed it.
Monty's remark about some great gardens being the result of 'neglect and age' was very memorable.
I thought the program was educational (besides being a relaxing travelogue), and the type of program that normally goes out on Ö÷²¥´óÐã Four. I think some Ö÷²¥´óÐã Four viewers, who might not be gardeners, would have enjoyed it.
Just two comments, about the ideas in the program...
There was another program, on Ö÷²¥´óÐã Four, a couple of weeks ago, 'The Real Garden of Eden', which covered the role of sacred gardens in the Ancient Near East. The idea was to have a big impressive garden, with water, representing the source of life. The King ordered the garden in the same way as he brings order to the world, and at the centre of the garden the King communed with God, for the benefit of the people. The gardens created by these cardinals had many similarities: but were these cardinals doing this in order to commune with God - not a chance.
Monty's visit to Bomarzo was fascinating too - very Jungian, and very interesting... to those of us who enjoy this kind of thing. -
Message 3
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Sunday, 17th April 2011
Villa Farnese was very influential on landscape designers like A.E.Hanson who designed the Harold Lloyd estate which was named...Greenacres!
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Message 4
Posted by TallyHo (U2364821) on Sunday, 17th April 2011
I had this naughty thought… what if Monty did a Fantasy Gardener's World? Imagine the screams on the Board if he'd said,
"Today we're putting in a hillside water course, rills, canals and twenty fountains and diverting the town\s water supply to do it. I'll also be knocking down a couple of streets and the whole thing will cost round about £100 million — oh and by the way, you have to be VERY well connected to see any of it. Eat your heart out." -
Message 5
Posted by crouchee (U13371975) on Sunday, 17th April 2011
I would have liked to have met the bod that wanted to build Stonehange.
" Right, that's the first sample of bluestone in place, looks fab, we just need to pop back to Wales and get another thirty or so, as there is an offer on, buy one henge and get a free set of sarsen stones."
What a motivator -
Message 6
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Monday, 18th April 2011
As there have been hardly any replies....on subject
I guess people either didn't watch it, or have no views on what they saw................wonder if GW will go the same way??
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Message 7
Posted by cazsudz (U7061972) on Monday, 18th April 2011
I recorded it and watched it yesterday. Quite enjoyed it, but must admit oneand a half hours of nonstop Monty is a bit much even for a fan like me. perhaps it would have done better if it went out midweek??
Caz -
Message 8
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Monday, 18th April 2011
As there have been hardly any replies....on subject
I guess people either didn't watch it, or have no views on what they saw................wonder if GW will go the same way??Ìý
Lowena. Are you ever going to give it a rest? I'm grabbing a few minutes on here, eating my lunch at my desk having been out all morning on site. The weather has been and looks to continue to be fantastic for a few more days to come. There are far more better things to do than pour over the GW gardening website. I loved Monty's programme by the way. A feast for the eyes. Now I must get back to work. -
Message 9
Posted by Yakram (U2443370) on Monday, 18th April 2011
We had the privilege of visiting Italian gardens some years ago, and the pleasure of walking slowly through them, thereby not missing subtle detailing. I was delighted to see that the Villa d'Este "gardens of a thousand fountains" seem to have been restored to their former glory, thank goodness. They were in need of tlc when we visited. Villa Adriana is very cleverly constructed, uber subtle and classical. We haven't visited the more northerly ones, so have put them on our 'to visit' list. Everyone takes home ideas to scale down for their own garden, to remind them of the gardens visited.
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Message 10
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Monday, 18th April 2011
Sorreeee!! I'm as entitled to post, and elicit people's views as you are to not post and keep your views to yourself.Can't see the problem really
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Message 11
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Sunday, 24th April 2011
Programme #2 was inspiring. I've always hankered after my own version of the Sissinghurst 'white garden, but just green could be the thing.
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Message 12
Posted by cufcskim (U14483815) on Sunday, 24th April 2011
First one I could have sworn was a repeat and I fell asleep within 15 mins during the second. It's all very repetitive.
En-mass regimented hedging, topiary and grungy grottos just don't do it for me, once you've seen a couple you've seen them all. -
Message 13
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Sunday, 24th April 2011
I agree I thought it was a repeat and after 15 mins you have seen it all,to be quite truthfull I would sooner have seen a programme about smaller gardens for a change,Ö÷²¥´óÐã gardening output does seem to favor estate sized garden output.
Why not for a change a fly on the wall series following say day to day running of small nurseries or allotments or local community gardens but again the Ö÷²¥´óÐã do not represent every day folk who garden.....
PPP... -
Message 14
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Sunday, 24th April 2011
Another yawnfest I'm afraid
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................................
I'd love to see how a nursery is run -
Message 15
Posted by Andrew (U14851379) on Sunday, 24th April 2011
I was wondering if anyone could help me. My wife liked the piece of piano music that was playing about 40 minutes into the programme when Monty was talking about Giorgio Galletti gardens. As far as the programme was concerned we loved it.
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Message 16
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 24th April 2011
Happy to volunteer re small nursery
Frankly it mostly involves lugging heavy stuff about, interrupted by watering, weeding, saying 'sorry no I haven't got that' and trying not to run out of things... -
Message 17
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Your income must dry up in the winter months,how do you manage,also I assume you are on a water meter the bill must be high......
If the Ö÷²¥´óÐã can make hundreds of programmes about plates of food and peoples junk(cash in the attic ect..) then seems perfectly feasable that a series about a nursery,allotments ect could be made. -
Message 18
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Well I'd love to see such programmes.
There have been programmes about allotments and the cameraderie that exists between most plot holders, but one about like and times in a nursery would be great
Through the year from freezing work being done, to open days and cakes!
Plant failures to those lovely times when everything is just right. -
Message 19
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Open day and cakes today! We're open for the NGS today. Just dived in for a quick lunch. Really busy out there, last year's numbers exceeded already and it's only lunchtime! Have had to send out for more cakes....
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Message 20
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Cake emergency alert!!!!
Why not ring up the local Tv station and ask for a presence?
You don't get if you don't ask.... -
Message 21
Posted by kfgray (U14470933) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Programme #2 was inspiring. I've always hankered after my own version of the Sissinghurst 'white garden, but just green could be the thing.Ìý Colin do you have regular time for dinner in the garden? As that was what the white garden was constructed for. Having dinner in, as white looks best at twilight. I understand apart from those times Vita hardly went in the place.
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Message 22
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Monday, 25th April 2011
I thought Vita SW created the white garden as a gimmick to get people to visit during festival of Britain days and keep up her income. According to AT and his series on garden design she was the first to do borders themed on colours, her first being purples.
As for the Italian gardens series, I'm enjoying it - history, personalities, politics, culture and amazing gardens all at once. Fascinating stuff. I did note that Monty said recent research had shown that these gardens were full of colour between all the formal hedging. Must have been like Tradescant's knot garden at Hatfield House but on a grand scale. I bet they looked great and am looking forward to the next two programmes. -
Message 23
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Monday, 25th April 2011
And some of the gardens aren't open to the public - what a chance to see them, at least a little bit...
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Message 24
Posted by 1stClassAlan (U14795082) on Monday, 25th April 2011
I would have liked to have met the bod that wanted to build Stonehange.
" Right, that's the first sample of bluestone in place, looks fab, we just need to pop back to Wales and get another thirty or so, as there is an offer on, buy one henge and get a free set of sarsen stones."
What a motivatorÌý The sarsen stones at Stonehenge had already been there for a thousand years before your bod went to Wales for his blue Dolerite - that's if they didn't come from Ireland, of course, and funnily enough that's not so far out as it sounds!
However, I think the comparison between the Cardinal's garden and the Henge is .... well....... incomparable because building the final design represents a commitment by virtually the entire population then living in Britain - certainly a neolithic space programme. Most folk would have been quite au fait with the whys & wherefors of building it and what it meant to them. That garden is very striking but it's just a garden, it doesn't capture the sun and moon at the winter solstis or predict lunar eclipses with amazing accuracy. -
Message 25
Posted by marinelilium (U8293024) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Monty Don...droooool! Italian Gardens...droooool. Now Trillium talks of cakes!
(That's what was missing- CAKES and wine. I'll be better prepared this Friday).
I am a foliage fanatic. I am a hedge hog. I adore symmetry, line and form.
No airports, no hot, tired legs and an access-all-areas-pass! This programme is the only way to travel.
He's taking me to Amalfi next week
MLx -
Message 26
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Oh b...ger - I thought he was taking me!
Never mind
Enjoy! -
Message 27
Posted by marinelilium (U8293024) on Monday, 25th April 2011
That's just it ,we are all going....thousands of miles and all in good company.
That's about as Green as tourism can get. Monty, gardens and life were made for sharing. Get packed nooj!
MLx -
Message 28
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Monday, 25th April 2011
Now I feel as if I should wear something nice to watch it!
I don't want Monty to think I normally slob about like this.. -
Message 29
Posted by garyhobson (U11055016) on Tuesday, 26th April 2011
A couple of previous posters have mentioned the music. These are relaxing programs that can be enjoyed. They are not programs making demands, and drawing up list of jobs, and things to worry about.
There were a couple of points that caught my attention in the Florence program...
Firstly, was their obsession with growing dwarf fruit trees in pots. Here's a photo (from Flickr) as a reminder:
Monty didn't really explain this obsession.
The first gardening book to be published in English was called 'The Gardeners Labyrinth' by Thomas Hill. The front cover of a modern edition shows a man carrying a dwarf tree in a pot!:
Why are dwarf fruit trees in pots so special? And why should the first English book about gardening be called a 'labyrinth'? Some Elizabethan gardens did include a real maze, or labyrinth.
The garden built for Queen Elizabeth I at Kenilworth, is just down the road from me. It's designed as 4 symmetrical quarters, with little hedges, and a fountain at the centre, even a raised terrace from which to view the garden. All those design features are exactly like those we saw on Friday. I would not chose that very formal style myself, but I recognise that style as being very important, and having something important to say. These are gardens with 'big ideas', in every sense of the word.
It also crossed my mind that I would love to see Monty interview Prince Charles. Alan Titchmarsh made a program about Highgrove not long ago. However, I felt that AT was not really on the same wavelength as HRH, and AT's attitude to some of HRH's ideas was superficial.
During the Florence program Monty made several remarks that gave me a strong impression that he and HRH are on the same wavelength (the esoteric wavelength).
I'd like to see Monty and HRH visit the Alhambra together. -
Message 30
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Tuesday, 26th April 2011
I was wondering if anyone could help me. My wife liked the piece of piano music that was playing about 40 minutes into the programme when Monty was talking about Giorgio Galletti gardens. As far as the programme was concerned we loved it.Ìý I hope I've got the right part of the programme you are referring to. The piano piece is the first of Trois Gnossiennes by Eric Satie.
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Message 31
Posted by Sophie (U14854024) on Wednesday, 27th April 2011
I was wondering if anyone could help me. My wife liked the piece of piano music that was playing about 40 minutes into the programme when Monty was talking about Giorgio Galletti gardens. As far as the programme was concerned we loved it.Ìý I hope I've got the right part of the programme you are referring to. The piano piece is the first of Trois Gnossiennes by Eric Satie.Ìý I am grateful to the music expert here. I am looking endlessly to find what the music in this series is too. Except I am not interested in Satie’s piano but in the violin or cello music that was played in the Florence episode, about 21.30 minutes into the program. It has popped up before in the first episode too. Just beautiful. Anyone, please, please know what this is???
Thanks so much.
Sophie -
Message 32
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Friday, 29th April 2011
Well - tonight's episode was fab. OH and I had a wonderful week in Sorrento in Nov 09 - we loved the whole area so tonight's garden fest was a lovely reminder.
The whole programme seemed more varied and captivating tonight. I must admit to attention drift on the first two - so much formality - I can only take so much topiary/water/sculpture. But tonight's gardens were of a different order altogether, and meeting the lemon grower and the farmer outside Naples really added to it.
As you drive out of Naples you can't help but notice the veg/fruit growers tucked between the hi-rise blocks and the roads in every square metre. Fantastic growing region. -
Message 33
Posted by Yakram (U2443370) on Saturday, 30th April 2011
Yes, Trillium - Monty's Italian Garden programmes are a lovely reminder of visits many years ago.
Briefly regarding last week's programme: we were privileged to walk down Cosimo's Corridor from the Uffizi to the Boboli Gardens - I don't think you can now. The gardening styles north and south are so different.
Monty obviously felt the genius loci of Ninfa - it is all that he eulogised about and was a happy 'walk through' once again for us.
I am looking forward to the Lake Como and Maggiore gardens next week. -
Message 34
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Saturday, 30th April 2011
That long long stretch of pathway that took you to a waterfall,I thought I would love to get on a motorbike and open up and then Monty pulls out a pushbike.......Brilliant.
Love the bloopers that are not edited out and the best of the series so far,recorded it for viewing in the bleak winter months.
Fantastic episode and fantastic gardens,I could go on about the bird song but I wont.....LOVED IT. -
Message 35
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Sunday, 1st May 2011
Once again the Donster is setting a shockingly poor example by cycling about without a helmet and hi-viz clothing.
After his near criminal use of a power mower in the compost bin on GW, you have to wonder if he's on a mission to have everyone in A&E! -
Message 36
Posted by pithy (U14701731) on Sunday, 1st May 2011
Just found the programme. I have missed the first two. How can one see them?
I loved it and everything Italian. The music became a little intrusive as was listening for the birds and nature sounds it was too much to the fore not background enough.
Someone told me Naples is awash with rubbish because of Mafia control. How did Monty avoid all that I wonder? -
Message 37
Posted by marinelilium (U8293024) on Monday, 2nd May 2011
The DVD comes out on 16th May. Just £12.99 to buy a slice of heaven, inspiration and to transport the spirit during those long, cold winter nights. Will keep you warm and happy every time you watch it (and listen to the soundtrack).
MLx -
Message 38
Posted by hereisabee (U2342191) on Monday, 2nd May 2011
Never mind Monty's head, the Mafia or rubbish, this is what Naples is about
Yikes, no I meant to post the La Mortella group page
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Message 39
Posted by garyhobson (U11055016) on Tuesday, 3rd May 2011
I missed the broadcast on Friday night (was absorbed in the wedding on Ö÷²¥´óÐã One), so had to catch up on iPlayer, yesterday.
The Naples program was wonderful.
Formal rectilinear gardens, as featured in the previous programs, are very interesting, but not to my own taste. This week's gardens certainly were.
We had a thread about Mortella on here last year (with HB's Flickr links, message 38). Following my own experiences with exotics, last Winter, I've gone off gardens stuffed with exotics, but it was still fascinating to see Monty visit Mortella.
And I have some reservations about Ninfa. I'm not convinced about micro-managed disorder. Attempting to arrest the evolution of a garden, and freeze it, is not really the right thing - it's better to give nature a bit more genuine freedom, IMO.
Was very impressed by those huge roses scrambling over old walls.
A great program, and very enjoyable.
Very pleased to hear that there's a DVD coming.
There's also an accompanying book. The book was actually published at the beginning of the year, and already has a string of 5-star reviews on Amazon, which you can read here:
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Message 40
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Tuesday, 3rd May 2011
I'll be buying the book - thanks for the link.
I love his writing style -
Message 41
Posted by vize iÅŸlemleri (U14858774) on Tuesday, 3rd May 2011
I had this naughty thought… what if Monty did a Fantasy Gardener's World? Imagine the screams on the Board if he'd said,
"Today we're putting in a hillside water course, rills, canals and twenty fountains and diverting the town\s water supply to do it. I'll also be knocking down a couple of streets and the whole thing will cost round about £100 million — oh and by the way, you have to be VERY well connected to see any of it. Eat your heart out."
Ìý Ä°talian gardens is beatiful [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] -
Message 42
Posted by magicflute246 (U14859404) on Tuesday, 3rd May 2011
Hi, I loved two pieces of music on the third episode. One was very much in the style of Vaughan Williams (13.08 minutes) and the other is at about 31.30 mins. Does anyone recognise these pieces?
I am really enjoying these programmes. -
Message 43
Posted by Elizabeth Forbes (U14763962) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
I've watched episodes 1,2 and 4 but missed episode 3 (The South) and it seems already to have disappeared from i-player. What is the Ö÷²¥´óÐã up to?? There are weeks of Gardeners' World to catch up on. I feel bereft.
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Message 44
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
I believe it's due out on DVD soon which will mean a limited run on i-player so as not to affect sales.
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Message 45
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Monday, 9th May 2011
I've been on holiday and have just caught up with the last two episodes of this glorious series although I feel as though I've been on holiday again with Monty as he's expertly guided me through some wonderful Italian gardens. What a joy. I was very lucky to visit the gardens at Villa Cimbrone in Ravello a couple of years ago so I'm linking to some photos for those of you who are interested but they just can't do this garden justice. The views from the teraces are sensational. I visited in July heat so the shade cast by the tree canopy was a blessing. I think there must have been just half a dozen visitors in the garden at the time which meant I could soak up the atmosphere with lots of uninterrupted staring. Bliss.
I've also visited Lucca on a different holiday but didn't have time for a garden visit. Aside from the charming streets, history and architecture my resounding memory is of the sheer quantity of lingerie shops - gorgeous stuff it was too, skillfully and artfully designed with intricate dedication to detail - just like their gardens. -
Message 46
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Monday, 9th May 2011
Hi CG - I just thought I'd mention that your photos brought back some lovely memories for me. I was also there a few years ago, and I'd forgotten what wonderful views there were from the clifftops at the extremity of this garden. I've thoroughly enjoyed the Italian Gardens mini-series, and thought that I've seldom seen Monty Don appear so happy and relaxed.
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Message 47
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Monday, 9th May 2011
I'd be relaxed and serene if the Ö÷²¥´óÐã were paying me to roam around Italy, looking at wonderful architectural gardens and spouting about them. Not even many plant names to learn as they are all hedges and water :/
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Message 48
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Monday, 9th May 2011
A bit harsh Lowena a lot of people enjoyed this series,I am no fan of the Ö÷²¥´óÐã but this was TV licence money well spent.
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Message 49
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 10th May 2011
Not as easy as it looks either. Lots of background knowledge and research required plus the skills to present it in an entertaining manner and avoid just cramming facts. It wasn't about the plants so much as the why and the how and the differences between regions and eras plus drawing attention to the mistaken assumptions many have about italian gardens being all about control freakery, fountains and clipped green hedging.
Now I'd like to see similar series on Spanish and French and Dutch and Belgian gardens, not necessarily in that order and certainly not all jumbled together. All these countries have vastly differing climatic, regional and cultural differences within their own borders as well as between the nations.
A series on British garden design history could run for years. -
Message 50
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Tuesday, 10th May 2011
I didn't say I didn't enjoy the series ( although it was a bit laboured in parts) rather, that it shows Monty Don's strength is as a presenter, rather than a gardener.
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