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Is it a question of age?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by savory100 (U14862532) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
The message board seems to be flooded with debate about the style of garden and then in turn the associated content being given to us under the umbrella title of Gardener's World.
I do wonder though if it is in part down to a question of viewers ages. I am not trying to stir up a fury and I'm certainly not looking to suggest any age is wrong or better, but it does feel a little like there is a clear split emerging between 'newbie' (and by presumption slightly younger) gardeners and 'experienced' (and again by presumption generally older) gardeners.
Being 37 and having been interested in gardening since my early teens and developing two very different gardens of my own since being lucky enough to own my own property at 22yrs, I still consider myself to be (to surprise for some quarters) a newbie and after over 15 years of gardening in my own plots and watching gardening programmes, found the last 2 series of GW much more fun and entertaining, as did my 40 year old wife. I learnt things, I saw new and interesting recycling ideas, I finally got round to building a functioning and very productive vegetable garden.
Now, my quandary is this, when I heard Monty was coming back to GW, I was overjoyed, now I have seen him 'Gardening'; I use this loosely as last night he completed circa 7 minutes of actual gardening in the whole episode, the rest was a series of tours and dewy eyed shots of him, Rachel etc looking at gardens... NOT gardening or teaching/sharing anything I could use... I am gutted. I have no interest in vast gardens, with 15+yrs of established growth, why would I, why would most people?
Monty is not the problem, he can be an innovative presenter, he has passion about his craft, I can relate to him when he shows me around gardens and when he actually (rarely) does some gardening, but the format is a long way from engaging me...
What is the programme for if its not to share hints/tips and the skills of Gardening... it is so far only really sharing gardens with the odd snippet of a tip thrown in if we are really lucky...
So, is it a preference of age? When I go to garden centres (at least 2 per week on average), the majority of customers are very late 20's through to mid 40's... (well those actually shopping and not just going for a day out and a cream tea..) When I go to any of the RHS gardens the majority of people I see are over 50 and I often feel very out of place... It seems there are two very distinct types of gardeners and the distinction is an age one.
Has GW grown with an audience and left the people who are starting gardens behind... should a lot of what has been on the last 3 episodes really be part of countryfile / spring watch?
Are we really getting a programme to help us become better gardeners?
Should younger gardeners be encouraged to start / continue trying to turn the average (well under 100m square) plot they and 90% of the rest of the population have that is at this moment just a Deck and a bit of lawn with maybe one odd shaped shrub at the end???
Do you have soil in your garden that is hard? Clay? Lacking in organic matter? (I note Monty (after 15 yrs) has perfect friable topsoil...), what is being done to help us with this?
Surely we just need a new programme, maybe not GW or maybe GW... either way we do need something better than what we have.
Please don't suggest a Dr Hessian book... even those are now out of date in format, Titchmarsh's competitive series of expert styled books is FAR better and more appealing all round, but although a comparable argument that's another discussion altogether...
For those that have talked about old series (Geoff, Alan et al), I've seen them again recently, they are so dated, trends have changed and they simply are not relevant... if you can't see that part of the true passion for gardening is about development and innovation (it always has been though all of history, it shouldn't stop now)... why bother... you certainly don't need a programme, you are not willing to learn anything, so switch off and let the world and all our fledgling gardens grow... -
Message 2
Posted by Mycowaz (U14848091) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
You don't honestly expect everyone to read through all that do you???
can you abbreviate in a couple of sentances? -
Message 3
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
OH DEAR. MESSAGE TWO SUMS UP THE STATE OF THIS NATION. from a concerned 32 year old.
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Message 4
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
in response to the opening comment, i could not agree less with those sentiments. for me , and every person i know, the previous two series were regarded as an absolute joke. in fact i and people much older and younger watched tobys' show only to see how poor and silly it could get. a nadir not only of gw but also of the bbc .
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Message 5
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
The programme is called Gardeners World- not Gardening For Dummies- so I guess what they are trying do do in 30 mins per week is to show practical gardening and some inspirational ideas from other gardens- now this may not work for everbody and I agree that another gardening programme is needed- Beechgrove do what you want but you have to have to live in Scotland or have a Sky dish.
There is room in the schedules for another gardening programme at the expense of antiques ,cooking or property on daytime tv- but don't hold your breath -
Message 6
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
I'm very happy GW is taking a more thoughtful, multi-season approach to gardening and not the 'quick fix' makeover demanded by yoofs. GW is now a much classier effort and I welcome eschewing anything about multi-coloured bedding plants.
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Message 7
Posted by Lady J (U14432262) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
Interesting post. I've been lurking about on these message boards for a couple of months now and haven't yet posted anything (mainly because some of the threads or posters seem to me to be a bit hostile) but thought I would add to your thread. I'm another of the newbies... Six months ago, aged 30, I got my very first garden and have been loving learning how to develop it. I've been using almost any source of information I can find - including this forum. Something I've noticed is a large number of people who seem like old gardening hands talking about how GW does or does not address the needs of newbies but very posts from those newbies on what they need - until your post.
I never watched GW before now but I really do like Monty. He is calm, enthusiastic and seems to genuinly care about his garden. Can't say fairer than that, if you ask me. However , I am a bit frustrated by the lack of real gardening in the show and the lack of real info I can use. It's nice to see big estates and large established gardens but only if we get some info from themmwe can use in our own - plants are plants wherever they are so surely the same tricks those larger gerdens use can be applied to smaller gardens - they just need to tell us what they are! In addtion, I really wish they would identify plants more. All gardening forums seem filled with questions about idenification. GW often use arty shots of plants as visual fillers or when looking around gardens but never tell us what they are unless they are going to focus on that plant specifically. I often see plants I like and wish I knew what I'd just seen. A gardening expert friend of mine spent 5mins giving me tips on identification, including how to all use all the clues (smell, look, stem shape, leaf shape, flowering time etc) and I often think it would be great if GW could do more of this.
I watched Carol's programme earlier in the year and loved it - I watched each episode at least three times as I learned so much from them.
A final thanks to folks here for mentioning Beechgrove - I never would have found it otherwise and it's a real gem. -
Message 8
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
Lady J Why dont you try the best real world programme out there it is on Sunday 9 am and repeated through out the week.
Horticultral Channel SKY 166 Freesat 402.
This and Beechgrove are my favourites.
You can catch others already shown on Horticultural Channel website or Utube.
PPP -
Message 9
Posted by Lady J (U14432262) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
Will be sure to check it out - thanks!!!
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Message 10
Posted by TomBradbury (U3349234) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
>I've been lurking about on these message boards for a couple of months now and haven't yet posted anything
What is it about people 'lurking' on these forums? Place seems to be full of lurkers. Perhaps just a reflection of real life.......! Come out, we know you're there. -
Message 11
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
Lady J Why dont you try the best real world programme out there it is on Sunday 9 am and repeated through out the week.
Horticultral Channel SKY 166 Freesat 402.
This and Beechgrove are my favourites.
You can catch others already shown on Horticultural Channel website or Utube.
PPP Â
As someone who is vocal about the shortcomings of Gardeners' World and with a lifetimes gardening experience behind them, I wholeheartedly endorse this post. -
Message 12
Posted by Lady J (U14432262) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
>What is it about people 'lurking' on these forums? Place seems to be full of lurkers. Perhaps just a reflection of real life.......! Come out, we know you're there.<
I'm out, I'm out!!
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Message 13
Posted by Mal (U14860299) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
It does seem like Garderners' World is aimed at a very specific demographic, the sort of people who are more interested in high end concepts - less about growing for food, more about design and so on.
I don't really think there is much point complaining though. Watch some of the more accessible competitors like Beechgrove, or look at the large number of websites which cater for newbies and the 'grow your own' audience.
Gardeners' World was more accessible in the previous two series, but I would draw parallels with programmes like the science show Horizon. With Horizon, the audience regularly complains about how accessible some of the episodes have become, i.e. so basic that its core audience stops watching.
Last year we were opportune enough to have the Alys Fowler series to watch. This year I guess it's just a case of looking elsewhere, while also trying to appreciate the topics which Garderners' World focuses on. -
Message 14
Posted by savory100 (U14862532) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
Why does going back to basics or appealing to a wider audience have to mean 'gardening for dummies'?
The way I see it is that visiting gardens week after week is fodder for dummies... I'm not challenged... there is nothing highbrow about this series so far because they have; other than a lawn height adjustment and the standard "look if I dig up this clump you can get 3/4 plants that you can then replant around your traditional and highly un-inspirational border like your father/grandfather did" taught anyone anything...
Surely to be less than a documentary for dummies, they need to be developing minds and stretching ideas... I dunno, maybe showing us how to make a raised pond out of recycled materials... oh no they did that last series, or how to start a veg garden from scratch.. oh no, last series again... or what about building a bog garden from scratch... nope last series again...
OK, lets stay highbrow, at least Monty (who I still love despite the format) has shown us how to plant some ferns that are already native in the oft flooded corner of his vast estate... I'm inspired, my mind is stretched and feel highly educated by that gem...
Seriously though, thank you for recommending Beechgrove, I've Sky+ it... so fingers crossed that will slake my thirst for eduction and something new and innovative. When I want to switch off my brain and watch pretty things go by without challenge on the goggle box I can still watch the brain soothing GW -
Message 15
Posted by savory100 (U14862532) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
I have Sky+ Beechgrove, thanks for the advice.
I really don't want GW to stop, I do think there is space however for a gardening programme to compliment the 'looking at gardens' programme we have now. -
Message 16
Posted by savory100 (U14862532) on Saturday, 7th May 2011
Cheers Darren,
It appears we have a totally different circle of friends, in contrast to you, everyone I know loved the last two series and their accessible nature.
I would note that Alice Fowler (edible garden) and Joe Swift (allotment) sold more of their respective books according to Neilsen Bookscan numbers that Monty Don did with his last book, so actual popularity based on people putting their hands in their pockets might also suggest that the last two series (presenters and content at least) were not that unloved... -
Message 17
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
well there you go! clearly a rift has formed between the audience, a top gear style programme is required for half the audience , the rest can keep the current format- everyone a winner.
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Message 18
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
>a top gear style programme is required for half the audience<
And on that bombshell... seriously, we've yet to see AT's 'magazine' style programme for ITV so maybe that'll be ideal for the post-Kyle audience. -
Message 19
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
what is kyle????
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Message 20
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
Jeremy Kyle - the show the chavs get up for.
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Message 21
Posted by stuliz1123 (U13984185) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
Two things this post triggered in my mind.
1) Article in Amateur Gardening this week - average age of gardener starting is now 30s not 40s (as it was a decade ago)
2) Stopped watching GW about a year ago as I just couldn't get into it. Discovered GW is now on i-player through my PS3 (look at me all techy) and watched the first two episodes of this series. OK not much of interest but I did note down two plants I want to look at further and a damn good reason why my geranium is a bit sad.
Lizzie Bee -
Message 22
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Sunday, 8th May 2011
when i was at school ( circa 1993) chav was a reference to thieves.
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Message 23
Posted by kfgray (U14470933) on Monday, 9th May 2011
No it is not age related I have been gardening for 45 years, but have friends of 10 years and 3. It is a question of taste And the current forma of GW is not to mine or my friends.
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Message 24
Posted by bev55 (U14811237) on Monday, 9th May 2011
Totally agree with you. I've been watching some of the repeats of GW with Monty from Berryfields on Blighty and it is a completely different programme to this series. So much more informative and still visiting other gardens. Something for everyone, (although personally I did get fed up with the long border, but you can't please everyone all of the time!) I've had a look at the Barb viewing figures, comparing this year with the same period last year, and the average is the same 2.1million. In fact this year there has already been one week when the figures have dropped below the 2million. That hadn't happened by this time last year. It has been mentioned before that not having Monty's garden as the main set but a visit every week in the same way they visit CK's Glebe Cottage is a much better idea.
If the powers that be don't do something drastic soon, our beloved GW will disappear. AT and June 10th is just around the corner. A 5 minute slot once a week is already more interesting than half an hour of GW, just think what he will do in half an hour. GW beware. -
Message 25
Posted by honestGreengrass (U11104227) on Monday, 9th May 2011
Just found this and wondered why it all ended...
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Message 26
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Monday, 9th May 2011
Thats part of the problem we didn't get 30 minutes of GW as another poster pionted out we only got about 8 minutes of Monty the rest was something else.
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Message 27
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Tuesday, 10th May 2011
It has been mentioned before that not having Monty's garden as the main set but a visit every week in the same way they visit CK's Glebe Cottage is a much better idea.
If the powers that be don't do something drastic soon, our beloved GW will disappear. AT and June 10th is just around the corner. A 5 minute slot once a week is already more interesting than half an hour of GW, just think what he will do in half an hour. GW beware.Â
No no no! One of the big requests on this board after 2 years of Green Acres was that the GW garden should be presented from the presenter's own garden. The 'powers that be' should leave the format alone. It is thoughtful, informative, relaxing and thoroughly enjoyable.
I'm sure the new 8 part Titchmarsh programme will be interesting in the bits between the adverts, the "what's coming up" and the "what we've just seen" reminders but I'm wary as it is described as a "lifestyle" programme and will probably suit those who got their gardening fix from Groundforce.
Monty Don has been described as the thinking womans Alan Titchmarsh by the way - need I say more? -
Message 28
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Tuesday, 10th May 2011
oh yeah. itv is a scum channel. lowest of the low as far as i am concerned. will probably attract those who buy their plants at b and q. you know the sort , shouting in the back garden over the bbq and beer. i love modern england....
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Message 29
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Tuesday, 10th May 2011
Calm down dear
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Message 30
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Tuesday, 10th May 2011
>will probably attract those who buy their plants at b and q<
Yep, I hear the 1st "makeover" is to spell-out "Wayne & Kylie 4evah" using mixed-petunias. -
Message 31
Posted by theweeshep (U13961168) on Wednesday, 11th May 2011
And I'm sure modern England loves you with your non-judgemental, non-prejudiced attitude. In fact, an attitude like yours is exactly what is wrong with modern England. As such I suspect you are a Channel5 viewer.
I gave up posting on this board due to the same moaning, self absorbed whiners posting message after message about how bad GW was last year. The same bleaters are now moaning at the moaners, moaning how they miss last years style. Sigh..... See you in a year or so. Maybe some of you will have grown up a bit by then and learnt some manners in your posting, or at least restraint. -
Message 32
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Wednesday, 11th May 2011
Scum channel!!! I sure your views are based on the fact you watch it and the way you behave......
I also think a scum channel would be one that demands you pay a large fee every year wether you want to or not...... -
Message 33
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Wednesday, 11th May 2011
>See you in a year or so<
See you later, Alligator! -
Message 34
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Wednesday, 11th May 2011
jeez, some people have no backbone. anyway, the original topic was a relevent one.
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