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Sowing unripe seeds

• Message 1. 

  Posted by JMCowie (U14939859) on Sunday, 24th July 2011

  Do I have to un-learn all that I learnt at school about seed ripening?
  On Gardeners World 23rd July, Monty Don showed how to sow seeds of primula Baileyana. To my amazement he sowed them green.
  
  I always understood that a seed had to ripen before it would be viable.
  
  Would someone please tell me who is correct. I am especially interested at the moment as I have a vast number of ripening, but untidy annual poppies, the seeds of which I intend harvesting for next year.

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 24th July 2011

  Most seeds do need to be fully ripe before collection. That's certainly the presumption to make when collecting seeds. But there are exceptions.
  
  Some seeds are viable (i.e. can germinate) when still green, and if you leave them to become fully ripe and brown, they then become dormant and are slower to germinate, or need a period of cold to break dormancy. Primulas are well known member of this group. By collecting them when green, but plump and firm, they are viable, but have not yet become dormant. They can be sown now and should germinate quite quickly.
  
  Your poppies are probably the annual Papaver somniferum. These will grow, flower and die in one season, so there is no point sowing them now. These need sowing in spring to flower next year.

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by JMCowie (U14939859) on Monday, 25th July 2011

  Thank you very much. I've learned something new!
  
  As I did last year though, I shall be broadcasting my annual poppy seeds in the autumn. I had a forest of them this year and have done what Monty Don did in a previous programme and marked the ones worth keeping for harvesting.

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 25th July 2011

  A fine idea to sow them in autumn - as hardy annuals they'll come through fine, as you know.

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• Message 5

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  Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Friday, 29th July 2011

  Carol Klein did a program about growing green primula seed. I attempted it and the first sowing was not successful. I tried again and they came through. Very successful new candelabra primulas. So some seeds do germinate in the green.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Saturday, 30th July 2011

  Most seeds do need to be fully ripe before collection. 
  
  Trillium
  
  If seed heads are taken off the plants before they are completey ripe - and then put in a paper bag/envelope until they ripen (or look brown and ripe) will they still grow next year? I keep thinking that by leaving them on the plant until they are completely brown is stopping more flowers being produced?? Also, in many cases I leave them too long, and then find they've dropped off and are lost.
  
  HTF

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Saturday, 30th July 2011

  Hi HTF,
  
  From the plant's point of view, it sheds its seeds when it thinks they are ready, so that's the ideal time for us to collect them. But yes, if you wait till the last minute then you run the risk of missing them completely.
  
  I do collect most seed just ahead of when the pods/capsules looks like splitting, then put them in a paper bag to split under my control. If you want to collect while they are still green then I would experiment - some plants may be fine and others not.
  
  Re not deadheading and reduced flowering, I usually dead-head three quarters and leave a quarter for seed. Seems to do the trick.
  

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• Message 8

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  Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Sunday, 31st July 2011

  Hi Trillium
  
  Thanks a lot for your help.
  
  Just one last thing, on the subject of dead-heading, etc. Do plants, which are sterile - such as surfinias, know they are sterile. I know it sounds like a daft question, but, although I do try to keep on top of the dead-heading (mainly to keep them flowering, but also for appearance sake), is it still important to take the dead flowers off plants which will not produce seed?

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 31st July 2011

  I don't really know - but several sterile hybrids I know of are recommended for their continuous flowering - Astrantia 'Roma', for example.
  
  So the plant seems to know that it hasn't set seed and keeps flowering, but doesn't know it is pointless! As you say, dead-heading keeps them looking a lot better anyway.
  
  BTW, I collected seeds from Dictamnus albus var. purpureus today. I usually wait until the pods start splitting (exploding!) and lose loads. But, inspired by this conversation, I prised open some of the tightly closed pods and the seeds inside were black, shiny and detached from the pod lining. They must be ready so I've collected the lot. So thank you!

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Monday, 1st August 2011

  Glad to be of help . Good luck with them though.
  
  I'm going to do as you suggested in your first reply, and try collecting some before they look completely ripe. Over the past few years I've had quite a lot of success (but also some failures, eg Scabious both bought and collected!!) with seed I've collected myself, one of the most successful for the past 3 years has been bedding begonias. I felt really good recently when I read Alan Titchmarsh saying that begonia seed is actually more valuable than gold. Obviously because it's so minute - but, nevertheless, it was good to hear.
  
  The Astrantia sounds good - hope you're taking some to Southport. I actually bought this (along with 2 others) as small plants, earlier on this year - but then managed to lose all 3, before I got them in the ground.
  
  Thanks again for all your help. It's good having a 'resident' expert on hand
  
  
  HTF
  
  
  
  
  

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