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Roman breasts

• Message 1. 

  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Thursday, 21st June 2007

  In last night's opening episode of series 2 of Rome Calpurnia had a woman put her naked breast to the mouth of the dead Caesar. Anyone know what this was for? The symbology is obvious but is there any lierary evidence for this practise?

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Thursday, 21st June 2007

  To be honest I did not capture the symbology. I have also no idea whether that was common practice but as a symbolic act it would not surprise me if it was so.

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• Message 3

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  Posted by Helena99 (U8659848) on Thursday, 21st June 2007

  I'm terribly sorry to be 'girly giggly' but what was the dead 'un supposed to do? Grab hold?
  
  I just wonder whether it was supposed to be a 'test of death' rather like holding a mirror to the mouth.....(ie on the grounds that a man has to be dead before he takes advantage of such a gesture?!)
  
  Sorry to lower the tone!
  
  (More seriously, what WAS the symbolism?)
  
  Helena
  

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• Message 4

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Thursday, 21st June 2007

  In last night's opening episode of series 2 of Rome Calpurnia had a woman put her naked breast to the mouth of the dead Caesar. Anyone know what this was for? The symbology is obvious but is there any lierary evidence for this practise? 
  
  Goodness know. Half the time they're making it up as they go along - this is NOT a documentary. Probably just an excuse to wave an example of the female anatomy around, since the writers seem to be obsessed with *ahem* 'socks' and all things related.
  
  I'm not cycnical at all - honest!
  
  Oh - Roman funereal wear was WHITE, not black.

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• Message 5

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  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Friday, 22nd June 2007

  It was certainly unusual and I had to do a double take. Now I know the first series was, er, creative, shall we say, with some of the historical facts, but I did like the way the old katadesmoi/defixione was handled, so I was wondering if this practise was possibly some form of maybe Cybele worship or something. I just love James Purefoy as Anthony. Maybe not as sturdy as Anthony appears to have been but so much fun to watch.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd June 2007

  Hi general,
  
  I caught the repeat last night, and I'm pretty certain there was a stream of milk in his mouth after she'd finished which may have been relevant...
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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• Message 7

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd June 2007

  This from another forum...
  Another source has that care for the newborn and treatment of the deceased are two processes gendered as female in Roman society.
  
  In Roman mythology, Hera feeds Hercules with her milk after he is slain.
  
  We have Roman sarcophagus carvings of women holding their breasts over the deceased.
  
  Women were the mourners of the dead and the bearers of life. Hence the symbolic real "breast beating" as a mourning ritual for women in Rome. If a family lacked "enough" females members women were hired to act as mourners, to bear and beat such.
  
  There could also be the symbolic connection to Rome's founders: Romulus and Remus suckling from a she-wolf.
  
  Galen the first great Roman physician suggest a mothers milk for the very elderly.
  
  Source: Nature Embodied: Gesture in Ancient Rome by Anthony Corbeill - 2003 
  
  
  The sarcophagus carvings sound like a possible source, but as far as the motives go I'm still unsure.
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF
  
  

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• Message 8

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  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Friday, 22nd June 2007

  Nice one RF.
  
  I took the symbology to be mother's milk equates to life so feeding the dead could be seen as part of that process in preparation for the afterlife.
  
  Thanks for the link.

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• Message 9

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  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 22nd June 2007

  No problems general
  
  I'm determined to get to the bottom of this one. This is a tantalising reference from a Citizendium article on the Roman goddess Nenia Dea:
  13. Anthony Corbeill, Nature Embodied. Gesture in Ancient Rome, Princeton 2004; cp. also the feeding of the deceased with breast-milk as a Roman funerary custom. 
  
  
  You can find the table of contents for the book at the link below - the relevant chapter looks like chapter 3:
  
  
  So it looks like it was based on evidence, but how strong said evidence is I've absolutely no idea!
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF
  
  p.s. Citizendium, if you haven't seen it before, was started by a co-founder of Wikipedia and claims "The world needs a better free encyclopedia"...
  

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• Message 10

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Friday, 22nd June 2007

  I stand corrected.
  
  Well, sit actually...

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• Message 11

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  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Wednesday, 27th June 2007

  RF
  
  Good work there, sir.
  
  I must say I hadn't heard of that particluar diety before. I was going off the many breasted (or testicled) Artemis of Ephesus and her attributes regarding the status of the liminal, those between states. I wonder if there's a connection....

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