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Mendip's Ancient Zoo?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Saturday, 6th December 2008
Is this a Polar Bear?
If you have Google Earth please look at this:
51°19'32.75"±·
2°45'0.80"°Â
If it is a Bear it will add to my Mendip zoo of Dragons, Lizards, Snakes, & maybe a giant Sheep. I won't bore you with that today as I'm in a hurry & if its not an Ancient Polar Bear, the others become meaningless.
Please give me your views. I know the spot very well, & i'd never heard of this Bear before. The area had been very heavily overgrown, & quite inaccessable until it was cleared a year or so ago.
Thank you. -
Message 2
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 6th December 2008
To be honest it looks more like an amoeba. What's the enclosure the shape is sitting in? The line that defines the shape looks like recent surface erosion, a path perhaps, not some sub-surface pattern present when the site was wooded.
TP -
Message 3
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Sunday, 7th December 2008
Thank you TwinProbe for your reply & comments.
Try rotating the image 90deg clockwise, does it look more like a Polar Bear? It reminds me of depictions of the Ursae constellations depicted elsewhere in the ancient world.
The enclosure its in is part of Burrington Camp supposedly an Iron Age fortification, but it is tiny, even compared to all of Mendip's many other small Iron Age fortresses nearby. Apparently recent Archaeology surveys have confirmed it's Iron Age inhabitation & have suggested evidence of previous occupation.
As far as I can ever remember (40+yrs) the site was never wooded, it was just typical of Mendip's harsh Limestone srubland; thick Gorse, Bramble, Bracken,& Nettles. Basically it was a jungle & if you bothered to go there (great for Dear spotting) the tendency was always to walk around the outside raised walls. I agree the path defining the shape looks recent, or in recent use. However that does not mean they could also be old as well. The whole area has a very thin topsoil layer (roughly 3-6cms) above rock. Once a path is made through the topsoil it will remain there virtually forever & all animals will follow an existing path rather than create a new one through the Gorse.
At a rough guess about 0.25 million people a year walk to "Rocky Point" about 400 meters South-East of the camp to see it's breathtaking panorama of the Bristol Channel from Gloucester to Swansea & way up into the Black Mountains of central Wales. Very, very few bother to even spot the slighlty sunken area beside them. Its not very inticing & when you get there its just a couple of overgrown banks & terrifyingly steep cliffs beyond.
At the base of these cliffs in Burrington Combe & almost directly below the Peak is Aveline's Hole, a cave with many interesting Stone Age finds.
Back at the Peak the rocks on the North side of the point have rune-like markings on them. I'd always either thought they were quarry marks or they pointed roughly towards one of the nearby Black Down sumits. I know I was there a few years ago late on a summer's evening & it did occur to me that they could be marking the Full Moon's movement up & along the Black Down ridge.
So what I'm suggesting is that we had Stone-Age people living in Aveline's Cave making a celestial Bear above them & above that putting a marker to the Stars.
I wanted to go there today, but sub-zero temperature & family commitments prevented me. I will try to go in the next couple of days & have look to see what can be seen from ground level. -
Message 4
Posted by Jay (U2975371) on Sunday, 7th December 2008
It looks to me like a race course, the local kids riding their motorbikes around it.
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Message 5
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Sunday, 7th December 2008
Thank you Jay for looking & commenting. Its a perfectly valid suggestion & it had already crossed my mind. However I doubt it due to its inaccessable location; it would be a hard, tough ride just to get there. If it was illegal use you'd expect to see the banks damaged from wheelies & jumps; also there would be no escape. If it was a legal event you'd expect to see more track marks & why would you do it inside an inaccessable Ancient monument. There are other places nearby used as race tracks & they all look different.
I will bear it in mind when I visit, especially as I know there is meant to be a BMX track somewhere nearby that I haven't found but this is too flat & boring for that. -
Message 6
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Sunday, 7th December 2008
Hi MendipTim,
Your replies raise several interesting points. Firstly Ursa major doesn't have to be a 'polar' bear surely. Our ancestors are more likely to have seen the European Brown Bear (Ursus arctos) than have made visits to polar regions. The Brown Bear is now, of course extinct in this country but may well have been found in Northern Britain during the Iron Age.
Representations of the bear are known. A fabulous Pictish carving of a Brown Bear was excavated at the Old Scatness Broch site on Shetland. It dates from around AD 200 but this huge mammal was never native to Shetland. Perhaps the artist had travelled to Scandinavia or just possibly copied the image from Roman glass-wear (tiny fragments of glass were also found). Frankly I don't know which of the two possibilities would be more fascinating.
Secondly, you mention that Burrington Camp is considered to be Iron Age. The shape is sub-rectilinear which seems a little odd for this date, although Time Time visited a rectilinear stone enclosure at Hamsterley earlier this year which was given an Iron Age date.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 7
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Monday, 8th December 2008
Thank you TwinProbe for your informative reply.
I had no idea how important Aveline's Cave was until I looked it up in Wikipedia:
a slight adjustment in our dates may be neccesary! I'm interested in those crosses as there appear to be hundreds of angled crosses carved on the rocks 100 meters above & not all of them can be natural. The only cave picture I've found is very small & badly lit.
I visited the site today & quite honestly there's not much to see, or at least at first. The site sloops down from the South-West (head) to North-East (back leg). The walls were obviously not meant to be defensive but as a line of sight shield - They are high & wide at the high South end, then they reduce to low & thin at the low North (& vulnerable) end. The walls appear to be pretty shoddy workmanship. Basically they are 2 trenchs with a mound in between, In most parts the inner trench is slightly deeper. Guessed max height & width of wall: 10ft x 8ft & a min of: 2ft x 1ft.
There is only 1 proper path that runs through the site & that goes from the bottom of his back feet down to his tail, over the rump & across the wall, it obviously gets very light use as the top soil is only eroded in a couple of spots. Halfway down the back leg is the only stone I could see on the site. It would take about 2 people to move it & had no special features.
The rest of the site is totally overgrown with Bracken & Bramble with a maze of animal tracks leading to dead-ends. Eventually I could just about work out where about 75% of the shape was. None of these paths were eroded at all.
Interestingly, the faint dagger shape between the Bear's legs showed up quite prominently as it was covered by very tall grass.
There was one very Bizare moment & if if you are easily offended please skip this paragraph. Whilst wandering around I had this sudden urge to pee. I could have done it there, nobody was around, the cover reasonable: instead I walked 5yds away to no better spot. Whilst doing the act I was pondering what strange forces would make me do that. When I got home & was retracing my movements on Google I realised at the original point I'd have peed in the Bear's ear!
Outside the site is far more interesting; the Northern half is surrounded by fairly steep wooded slopes. To the West you've got the spectacular vertical cliffs down to Aveline's Hole. To the East is a relatively flat open space leading to the base of Rocky Point peak. Just South of the Eastern wall in the tree line I found a stone I hadn't seen before. It doesn't look like bedrock, quite big (about 4 men to move it), it has a tree growing around it. On the stone is 2 circular & 1 oval holes roughly aligned, also a 1/2 oval hole with a straight line. They look very old & unnatural. There are many other markings on this stone but they may be natural, It is quite pointy & could be indicating something.
To the south of the site is a gently sloping ridge that starts at the top of the cliff directly above Aveline's Hole & runs all the way up to the summit of Rocky Point. At various places the top-soil has eroded away leaving stony outcrops. There seem to be far too many cross shaped markings in these rocks for them all to be natural, & some really look like they've been chiseled, most are angled & some appear to have arrows pointing up or down.
From the base of the peak when looking from the East the rocky outcrop appears as an almost perfect white rock pyramid. As you go around to the South it looks more like a Sphinx-like feature with a small head of an unhappy bear frothing at the mouth, & as the rocks are almost white it looks like a Polar Bear. From further away I thought it looked like a sheep's head, but I could still make out the Bear's head.
I've tried to tell it as I found it, but I'm no expert in anything. After to-day I'm more sure than ever that there is something in the ground there & that it might be the oldest above ground human artifact in the Brish Isles. -
Message 8
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 8th December 2008
49°32'17.04"±·
2°33'12.22"°Â
A penguin?
I'm beginning to be persuaded even if it's the wrong end of the globe! But now explain why our ancestors anticipated Fox's Glacier Mints AND Pingu ...
Or, more to the point, just explain - as TP asked - why they would depict a polar bear? -
Message 9
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 9th December 2008
Hi MendipTim,
Don't worry about the physiological details; I have medical training. As far as Mendip is concerned I don't know this area at all but, from first principles, there are several things you could do before deciding that 'the bear', if we may call it that, is an artefact.
Google Earth is wonderful free software but it has its limitations for archaeology. Ideally you would want to see some older aerial photographs taken for archaeological purposes. If the outline of the 'bear' varies in shape over the years this would be fairly conclusive evidence that it is random surface damage. If you felt that the design was of human origin you would have to think about how this might be brought about. If the soil is thin and the bedrock pale a surface design could be cut into the turf, like a chalk hill-figure. But such a design would need maintaining at regular intervals. If the surface pattern reflected some deeper change in the subsoil it would be really hard to think what this might be; 'parch' marks visible from the air often reflect underlying stone or masonry producing thinner topsoil, but this can hardly be the situation here.
The obvious place to obtain further information is the Somerset Historic Environment Record (previously called Sites & Monuments Record). This is basically an archaeological database of your area. If you don't know this already simple Google it. I tried to search the HER myself using the title 'Burrington Camp' but got no response. The area is marked as an 'enclosure' on a map of the area but a search for 'Burrington enclosure' did no better. It may be a very new discovery. The Somerset HER allows for email enquires so why not send them a OS grid reference and a brief description and ask if they have any information?
Next the stone you found south of the eastern wall. You say it is not like the bed-rock which would be limestone presumably. If you have any geologically talented friends it would be helpful to know what rock it is. If it is unrelated to the bed-rock it could have been brought by human intervention (a manuport), or just possibly be a glacial eratic – although Somerset seems a little far south for glaciation. You describe 'two circular and one oval hole roughly aligned etc'; could these be Neolithic – Early Bronze Age cup and ring marks? If you Google 'cup and ring' images you will see dozens for comparative purposes. They are found on virtually every upland area in Britain.
I have an archaeological contact in Somerset so I will try to find out a little more myself. But in any case good hunting, but don't jump to premature conclusions.
TP -
Message 10
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Tuesday, 9th December 2008
Hi Nordmann,
Surely, its one of Scooby-Doo's aquatic ancestors.
I lied about the Polar Bear. It was just a more eye-catching question than: Is this a Brown Bear? (I blame the Media!)
It wasn't a total lie as to me it looks more like a Polar Bear than a Brown Bear (who's remains have been found in the caves around the area); also I was looking in the area for any indication of Ursa Minor & the Pole Star when I saw the Bear, so I was gently hinting in that direction.
So when TP came up with all his relevent facts I was ready to concede to him.
Then I discovered that Aveline's Hole has Mesolithic burials dating back to the end of the last Ice-Age. It was then sealed shortly afterwards & not opened till 1767: so later generations of early man wouldn't have known of its hidden history underground, These later groups prefered the more sheltered & fertile central & sothern parts of Mendip. There wouldn't have been much attraction in placing a Bear there, at least not facing that direction.
The main problem with drawing a Polar Bear is that you have to see one first, or get a first hand account of one. In & around the Neolithic Age that would be almost impossible without sailing a very long way North. But in the Early Mesolithic Age the Ice-caps were just receding from Central England & Wales. So maybe the Polar Bear did roam not so far away. I've no idea if this may be so or not.
Anyway as I walked around the site I was quite happy to dismiss the Polar part of the Bear: until I went to walk away. I stopped at the base of Rocky Point on the East side & looked up at the peak & realised from that angle it looked like an almost perfect pyramid of white-ish rock against the bkeak grey skies. As I walked around to the South-East of the base I noticed the ridge behind was giving it a Sphinx-like structure; but whereas on the Sphinx you have a large head, here there appears to be a small head that looks like a Bear's head. It doesn't look very happy & it looks like there's white froth or snow in it's mouth. As the head is much smaller than the body & the body is white-ish it looked to me like a Polar Bear.(& it felt like I was on the Ice-cap with it!)
So I started by looking for a 5000 year old Pole-star Bear & maybe ended up finding a Polar Bear twice it's age - & it all happened as a result of a white lie!
And now I'll try to answer your question about Fox's Glacier Mints AND Pingu:
"..... + .....y - ....*...@<?>"!
TP:
just seen your new reply; great information - thanks. Will try to give full reply later. -
Message 11
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Tuesday, 9th December 2008
Hi TP
Keep your white coats away from me.
Lets start at the end because I think its the begining. All my friends will tell you I never conclude anything. I'm very good at jumping to begingings; but conclusions, I've forgotten them before I get there.
All I've done is suggest there may be a Bear there & I'm quite happy to leave the conclusion to the experts. I freely admit I've exagerated some of the suggestions to help get some feedback & widen the field of possibility. I'm way out of my depth & don't know whats plausable or possible; so I like to test the waters.
I'm a Landscape Photographer with Mendip being my prime subject. I love the area but its a hard area to photogaph away from the few main attractions. I probably walk 100 miles for every photograph I take & I doubt there's a footbath on the wild North-West side of Mendip that I haven't been on. For the landscape photographer Google Earth is amazing in areas with good definition. If you know what you are looking at its a great way to find new vantage points & viewing angles; or just to see where you've been.
So to suddenly find a new set of tracks that I knew had never been visable on any of my visits to the spot was quite a surprise. The fact that the tracks seemed to make a definable shape made it seem strange & that it fitted so exactly within a walled enclosure made it stranger still. On visiting the site yesterday it became immediatly apparent that the walls were to stop people seeing into the enclosure from any surrounding vantage points rather than a defensive structure. That made it even stranger. Why would you built an enclosure to hide something if there was nothing inside to hide? Add to this the bodies below in Avaline's Hole which also appear to have been hidden from view & I think we have the beginings of a mystery.
Even if the paths are very recent & temporary there is still the question of what made them that shape. It has not been used as a cycle track, the area is smooth so they are not following contours & the walk on/off paths are even less clear. Did the same forces that made me change my call of nature spot somehow guide walking creatures along those routes?
Sorry I confused you with the Stone, I meant it didn't look like it was attached to the bedrock. It is Limestone, though maybe a little darker than the local rock, but that may be shadow effects from the trees.
I've had 24 hours to think since the visit & I'm begining to regret starting this thread. If whatever is in that enclosure was meant to remain hidden then that is the best future for it as well: my conclusion is to honour it & then forget. Rebuild the walls & then leave the Past to it's Future.
Oh! dear, I finally jumped. -
Message 12
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 9th December 2008
Hi MendipTim,
Now that's strange; as a photographer I would have thought that you would have found Aerial Photographs of interest. Anyway, there's no compulsion; thank you for introducing me to an interesting site. When you are photographing the landscape do you reflect that much of what you see is the creations of generations of farmers, and their Neolithic imports - especially the sheep?
My contact in Westbury says: "Burrington Camp is an interesting multiphase monument not previously picked up. Recent examination of Burrington Camp, located at the western end of Burrington Ham, has shown for the first time that this is a multi-phase monument. The earliest phase of construction took the form of an L-shaped bank and ditch within which a later sub-rectangular enclosure was created. Both phases of onstruction are thought to be later prehistoric in date."
I respect your view that what is in the enclosure was meant to remain hidden, but personally I'm always much to curious to agree!
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 13
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Wednesday, 10th December 2008
Thank you TP again for your comments.
Of course I'm interested in Aerial photography. One of my favorite photos is an aerial shot of the Priddy Circles. I fully appreciate that they would be of considersable benefit in this case. As yet I havn't found any. Bristol University claimed they were going to do some Aerial surveys about 3 years ago (I think it was them that cleared the land at that stage for that purpose). I haven't seen any results, or even confirmation that any photos were taken.
It would not be an easy place to photograph. Due to the tall trees & high ridge being so close you'd have to be directly above the site to view it & that is probably not an easy place to fly with all the updraughts & related turbulence from the North-West facing cliffs below.
If I've managed to get you interested in this beautiful sleepy corner I'm delighted. Please come and visit the area. Bring good boots & coat; then wander. The whole area is an Archeological treasure trove, especially the old paths. (& don't forget to have a pint in the garden of the Druid's Arms at Stanton Drew!)
When I'm taking the photos I'm thinking of the photos; whilst walking in between my mind is constantly trying to understand the ancient landscape around me & the people who have slowly shaped it. I always thank them for their efforts especially when they've made a hard climb easy. On a side note you mentioned the Neolithic introduction of sheep - Were these really goats or were goats already here?
Your contact in Westbury has obviously read the same report (& only?) as I have. This appears to be the conclusions from the proposed Bristol Uni survey mentioned earlier. I don't want to be rude but it looks like they spend 30 minutes there & then went to the pub. I think looking at Google & reading my amateur observations gives you more information. There is no reference to Aveline's cave below or to the high peak right beside it. To me they've ignored what an old beloved history teacher used to bash into our heads - Context.
I don't want to get into an argument with Archeologists as they have training & I don't; so there will only be one outcome. However I think i am quite within my rights to point out that they may have missed something that needs their re-consideration even if I am wrong.
When I said the walls were meant to hide the inside from view I may have missed one view out. As the enclosure is on a North-East facing slope there may be a point high up on Red Hill 5 miles away that would be able to see into the enclosure. There are a group of Long Barrows close by & I believe there may be a very ancient semi circular henge-type structure over looking a vast area & from where the sun sets perfectly behind Crook Peak (a highly Visable & visual landmark) at mid-summer. However if I can't get anyone interested in a visable Bear I've absolutely no chance of convincing anyone of something that is only sensed. I havn't been up to the Water Stone near there for a while, so I'll try to go up there soon & look to see into the enclosure. If it is visable I'll take some photos & over time I'll be able to see if anything developes - a type of Aerial photography but from the land.
Thank you for your continued interest; your imput has been very valuble and kept me on the straight & narrow, almost. -
Message 14
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Tuesday, 16th December 2008
Hi,
I emailed N.Somerset HER to bring the Bear to their attention & find out if there was any information about it. However an automated reply informed me that the office was closed until the new year & that emails will be dealt with later in January. I suspect it should have added that as mine was an early one it will be one of the last to be dealt with. So the Bear can hibernate in peace this winter at least.
I have made a few new observations about the Bear that may be relevent. The shape of the top half of the body reflects the shape of the gorge below it with the hump on the back reptresenting the spur of rock leading down to Aveline's Hole. I think that in the maze of paths on the opposite hill there is a giant bear's head matching the same proportions & alignment as the gorge's shape; however I also think that almost any shape could be decerned amongst that random pattern.
The spur of rock that goes straight down from the top to Aveline's Hole is vegative all the way down whilst the surrounding cliffs are totally barren. At the base of the spur the rock is bare & splays out in multiple rounded shapes. From some angles the whole spur can look like a bear's shaggy front leg (very important in Shamanic cultures) & it's bare paws below, with Aveline's Hole amongst it's claws, There are also some dark parralel lines running down the spur which could be seen as representing claw marks.
I found a view with Google that represented the view from the other side of the gorge & looked at the spur. I was surprised to see that these dark lines were slightly angled away from vertical & appeared to make a shape of a Crested Duck diving underwater going down the cliff with the tip of it's beak touching the ground on the other side of the spur from Aveline's Hole. This is probably just imaginery & it would be interesting if anybody else sees it. If it does turn out to be genuine then it might be pointing to another & more important cave that has yet to be discovered; and that would be exactly below the Bear.
I had wondered if Burrington was a corruption of Bearington & discovered in the 15th century it was called Beryngton, which might or might not be supportive. There is a Saxon allusion to "Carstie" as a place nearby; somehow the word seems Bear-ish but I havn't found anything to support that.
Sorry that all I can give you is quesswork. Maybe when the proper Archeologists come out of hiberbation we will find out a little more fact. -
Message 15
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 16th December 2008
Hi mendiptim,
"Maybe when the proper Archeologists come out of hibernation".
As opposed to the improper ones perhaps?
"I had wondered if Burrington was a corruption of Bearington & discovered in the 15th century it was called Beryngton.."
Possibly not I'm afraid although I believe bear in OE is bera. You have to remember that there are also Burringtons in Hereford and Devon and they can't all have bears inscribed.
The -ington ending is common of course (Warrington, Jevington) and the whole names means 'the farmstead/enclosure of X's people'.
Who is X? Well the 'bur' element is not unknown (Burwash, Birmingham) and could originate from an Anglo-Saxon personal name. Beorn (ie Bjorn) is one obvious possibility but we would have to ask a place name expert if the 'n' is regularly lost in circumstances like these.
If the IA enclosure was recognised in Saxon times perhaps it was considered as a 'burh' or fortified place. This place name element usually occurs at the end (eg Westbury) but could we be looking at 'the farmstead of the people from the fortified site'?
Place names are often difficult and there may be no final answer.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 16
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Tuesday, 16th December 2008
Thanks TP
I fully agree with you about the place name that is why I hedged my conclusion. The Bery bit is meant to derive from all the Lead mines in the area, but I'm not sure about that either. The Carstie name may be more useful if only I could attach some meaning to it. At the moment I think it may mean castle, even though there is no evidence of one; so more in the sense of a strong natural defensive position with strategic views.
Beorn & Bjorn are both Bear derived names.
If I was a proper Archeologist, I'd dig holes in the summer & hibernate in the Winter! but maybe thats just because I'm born & bred in the Summer County. I'm also sure many of the proper types would rather us amateurs hibernated all year!
Thanks for your continued interest. -
Message 17
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Thursday, 18th December 2008
I don't seem to be getting any responses to my diving Duck.
I'm not surprised as I'm sure that the suggestion has finally convinced you that I've flipped. The Bear was pushing at the boundaries of plausability, now a 50m tall diving Duck! - I wouldn't believe it myself. So TP would be quite in order to ring his white-coated friends & enquire about vacancies for a long term resident.
But wait, have a look at this first:
Is that a total freak of nature like the Bear above? Maybe, if they were a couple of isolated instances. But here in the same few cubic meters we have an ancient wall, some ancient markings, a white rock pyramid & a Burial site that dates back to at least Mesolithic times. Nature may be freaky, and any site with that much freaky nature is an interesting site in its own right; but this isn't the work of Nature alone. Something with Intelligence has worked with Nature in the long distant past. Aveline's Hole is the cave bottom centre of the picture, by the stone.
Just from general knowledge I believed the front leg & claws of a bear had Shamanic qualities. Even though I have met some Shamanists in the high Himalayas I don't know much about the subject; so I looked it up in Wikipedia:
In the "Mediator" section it states:
"among the Selkups, a report mentions sea duck as a spirit-animal: ducks are capable of both flying, and diving underwater, thus they are regarded as belonging to both the upper world and the world underneath."
Interestingly I found this article of a very recent find in Israel (& very spookily their announcement was about the same day as I first saw the Bear on Google):
The bit that really caught my attention comes right at the end. There were other caves nearby with mass burials. Aveline's Hole may well be similar to 1 of those & therefore there may well be a more important cave nearby. I think that my previously stated thought that the cave will be found at the Duck's beak directly under the Bear is looking more likely.
Whilst trying to do a bit of research into ancient bears I came across this informative article:
TRACING THE BEAR MYTH IN NORTHEAST ASIA - JUHA JANHUNEN
I know its a long way away, & not entirely relevent, but its a good read especially if you have an hour to waste over the holidays.
Is that the padded van arriving? -
Message 18
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 18th December 2008
Hi MendipTim,
No, I'm afraid I see no duck, diving or otherwise. Time will tell if anyone else can make out a pattern.
I think a remedy less drastic than long-term residential care is available but it may require the breaking of the habits of a life-time. Ask yourself if you are interested in turning a wild speculation into a plausible hypothesis. If you are then think of the implications of your hypotheses, and consider the methods by which your observations might have been brought about.
If our Mesolithic ancestors created the images of bears and ducks on the landscape they must have physically altered the landscape in some way. Think about what they might have done: trenching, land clearance, wall building etc. Would these changes have survived 6,000 years of erosion, tree-felling and plant growth? Is there any evidence for these processes at ground level?
Do you think the way in which a Siberian tribe considers the duck is relevant here? Are you making a valid ethnological comparison? Are our Mesolithic ancestors related to Siberians? Are there people nearer to home for whom the duck was sacred? Are there ducks or bears in French or Spanish cave paintings, for example.
Google Earth is a wonderful free tool but it may be better for spotting hill-forts, Roman camps and deserted medieval villages. On the other hand if you can find us a Mendip goose we can all take a gander at it.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 19
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Thursday, 18th December 2008
There is a small blue Google place mark on the neck of the Duck. The body is descending straight out of the trees top right & its beak is touching the ground at the bottom of the wide verge.
As to the other questions. I have thought of most of them & can give no answers thats why I continue to do some research & to ask questions here. You can't live near Mendip & not appreciate the devastating effect of quarrying & modern forestry is having to the area. And thats just modern, the older effects of farming & mining are equally considerable. So I've no idea how they've survived but they did.
The Bear does exist, the tracks are there & the precise shape of the Bear matching the shape of the gorge below can be no accident. Can it really be accidental that 100+ bodies were buried below this spot c10,000 years ago & then the cave sealed? There are many henges on Mendip that have survived c5,000 years & they are in more pastoral areas. -
Message 20
Posted by Scaramunga (U4485565) on Saturday, 20th December 2008
I know there is meant to be a BMX track somewhere nearbyÂ
The BMX track is further north: nearer to Portishead.
-
Message 21
Posted by MendipTim (U13707598) on Monday, 16th March 2009
Hi all,
It may have been a Bear or it may not have been; but now we will probably never know.
In the past couple of weeks contractors have been in with heavy machinery & stripped the site bare. Important stones have been overturned or dragged into ditches, the head area is especially damaged with patches of bedrock showing.
Ironically this happens just as I was beginning to have some success in persuading some Archaeologists of the site's potential. North Somerset HER have been a disgrace. Twice in the last 3 months I have tried to bring the site to their attention & they have not bothered to reply.
I might as well reveal that after my last post here I realised that the shape was in fact a very detailed map of all the caves in the Combe & the small valley opposite. Aveline's Hole was clearly marked on the hump on the Bear's back, however that cave was sealed & hidden in Mesolithic times & not rediscovered until 1767, so the map could not have been made between those times. There are also a couple of mistakes in the geography that I doubt any recent forger would have made, but are understandable as that is the way the land would seem without proper maps & compasses. It was this map-shape argument that was getting the professionals interested.
As the probable age of the shape was becoming more apparent I kept my silence on this thread to try & give the Archaeologists a chance to study the site before it got damaged by sight-seers & bounty hunters: but the Earth-movers beat them all.
Tonight I feel gutted & just want to follow the Bear into extinction. -
Message 22
Posted by glen berro (U8860283) on Monday, 16th March 2009
Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:58 GMT, in reply to MendipTim in message 21
Bye,
glen
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