Ancient and Archaeology听 permalink
Missing Bricks
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.听
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 3rd January 2009
One of my interests is the manufacture and use of Victorian and early 20th century bricks. These were machine-made, smooth faced, and possess one or two depressions, or 'frogs'. The manufacturer commonly added a 'brick-mark' to the frog which might be a name, place of manufacture or the company's initials. These marks give the brick provenance and enable, in theory, the date and place of manufacture to be identified.
I have been able to identify most of the bricks used in the Leeds-Bradford area of West Yorkshire but I have had one conspicuous failure. The brick-mark on these was [BCC]. These bricks are relatively late and common; they were used in large buildings like Bradford's Royal Infirmary and its closed Odeon Cinema.
Sadly I have no idea what the letters BCC stand for. 'CC' suggests 'colliery company'. Collieries commonly had their own brickworks but it seems unlikely that a colliery company could provide bricks in the huge numbers required. It would be wonderful if someone recognises this mark. Even to hear of other parts of the UK where they have been found would be enormously helpful.
If you have bricks lying around in your garden or allotment would you please take a look for me?
TP -
Message 2
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Saturday, 3rd January 2009
Bradford City Council? Think they came from Birkbys bricks wilson road in wyke. I know they used to do council contracts
-
Message 3
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 3rd January 2009
Hi bttdp,
Thanks. Sadly I don't think either suggestion fits, but they are both good ideas.
There was a Bradford Corporation brickworks off Rook Lane but their brick-mark was, reasonably enough, 'Bradford Corporation'. There was also a 'Bradford Colliery Company' in Manchester, but I know no evidence that they had a brickworks.
Birkby's would certainly be big enough and in the right place to supply this sort of contact. They were in business through 20th century until the 1960s. Unfortunately I have many examples of their brick-marks which seems to be [Henry Birkby & Sons Wyke] or [Birkby Wyke] or [Birkby Ltd Wyke] or [Birkby & Sons Wyke]. Obviously I can't be certain that they didn't switch to [BCC] but I can't guess what 'CC' meant if they did.
I know of about 25 brickworks in Bradford, and about the same number from Keighley, Leeds, Elland, Brighouse, Leeds and Accrington whose products regularly found their way to Bradford. It's so frustrating that I can't identify the one that really interests me but if you think of any other possibilities please pass them on.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 4
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Monday, 5th January 2009
Sorry I couldnt be of any more help.
there is one thing though. Birkbys was open in the late seventies early eighties. We used to get chased out of the clay pits on a weekend and I can remember seeing the kilns being opened on my way home from school, I had the misfortune to go to Wyke manor which is only just down the road.
its all pulled down now and there are houses built on it but if you go down wilson road about 75 a hundred yards theres a new estate on the left hand side? thats the site. Dont know about the clay pits I'm assuming they are still there. -
Message 5
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Monday, 5th January 2009
Hi bttdp,
Since replying to your original post I've heard of another local historian who relates [BCC] to Bradford Corporation. I'm not convinced but I am contacting him.
I'll drive down to Wyke to look for the pits but I'm not optimistic. Virtually nothing is left of the industry except for Rushworths of Adwalton which is now an inn and restaurant.
Thanks,
TP -
Message 6
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Tuesday, 6th January 2009
HiTP
had a quick look on google maps the clay pits seem to still be there. what i cant see is the Monkey steps that we used to get down to them.
For what its worth they used to be a bit lower down thean the kilns. if you stood in the entrance to the school drive there was a row of terraces across the road on your right hand side but at right andles to the road. if you walked down the road in front of the terraces then the steps were at the end and lead to a foot bridge that ran across the valey and if you looked down you could see the light railway that broughthe clay up from the pits to the actual factory and kilns.
It looks like the foot bridge has gone though although there are dirt tracks across the whole vally which would suggest that there is access at some point. Might not be from wilson road though I remember the drop there being an almost sheer cliff. Unless theyve land scaped it a bit you might need a ladder -
Message 7
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Wednesday, 7th January 2009
Hi bttdp,
I've made my trip to Wyke. I think you could guess that there was once a brick-works in the neighbourhood of Wilson Street. A pair of Victorian semis on the corner with Huddersfield have brick garden walls with unusual brick forms built into them. A small cluster of terrace houses also on the left have 'Birkby Bricks' used in various garden features.
I spoke to a brick-layer working in one of the houses who says that he frequently comes across over-fired bricks which sound like 'works seconds'. He showed me the clay-pits but it appears that they have been used as a land fill site.
No BCC bricks were visible so investigation will have to continue.
Thanks again,
TP -
Message 8
Posted by MB (U177470) on Sunday, 18th January 2009
You could ask here
I am sure he would be glad to receive photographs of any of the ones that you mention seeing.
MB -
Message 9
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Sunday, 18th January 2009
Hi JMB,
Thanks for your interest. I've already tried Dave Sallery's wonderful site, but unfortunately he can't help me with BCC. This is no criticism since I have been astonished by the number of brick-marks that there are. I found 5 new (and as far as I know unrecorded) marks in my part of West Yorkshire within the last week.
I've found another local enthusiast who agrees with bttdp's suggestion, but the clinching recorded evidence is missing.
Evidence of a once important industry is rapidly disappearing. It's nice to be taken seriously if you wish to collect the products.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 10
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Monday, 19th January 2009
Hi TP.
Just thinking about this one. Do you think its possible that it was a catalogue marking?
I am not an expert but i do know there were different types of bricks for use in different circumstances.
may be the BCC is a classification so for example if you want a load of fire bricks say, you'd end up with a load stamped BCC? -
Message 11
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Monday, 19th January 2009
Hi bttdp,
You are very good at this; have you thought of doing it professionally?
There were certainly several types of bricks produced. 'Common' bricks were not intended to be visible but were usually covered in plaster or render. 'Facing' bricks were high quality and were often visible. 'Engineering' bricks were compressed and fired at a high temperature and so were vitrified; Staffordshire was a famous source of these. If you had a source of fireclay on your land you could even manufacture 'fire-bricks' for furnace linings and the like.
Now you find many Victorian bricks without marks so perhaps the presence of a mark was considered as a guarantee of quality. Could a single manufacturer have used more than one mark and have used them as indicators of type or quality? Well it's certainly possible, but (at the moment) I have no positive evidence. None of the contemporary sources I have consulted have described marks in any way.
I think that the major problem is that brick works in the 19th and early 20th centuries were very regional. I mainly collect examples from the Bradford Metropolitan area but yet I don't think I have ever seen any of 'my' bricks on any website devoted to this fascinating and necessary item.
If you have any further thoughts do please let me know.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 12
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Hi TP
Thanks for the comment.
Afraid that its mainly down to the fact that I lived and went to school in Wyke. There used to be a lot of old lads in the pubs who used to work at Birkbys. They didnt pay very well if you wanted to know. So I know a little bit about what must be a very technical and poorly documented subject.
I'm more intrested in the mill buildings myself.
One thing that did occur to me was that I came across bricks marked Birkbys Wyke in a wall round an old coal mine in Westhoughton Lancashire. They were'nt original, they looked to have been a patch to close an old gate in the wall but as the pit closed in the 1920's they must be from arround that period as there was no maintenance carried out apart from filling in the shaft in the early seventies. I can remember going with my grandad to dump an old tv down the shaft. The whole areas been redeveloped now. But if you google Etoc Pit Westhoughton the wall was about thirty feet in from the drainage shaft, which is now a small pond/ wildlife preserve in a housing estate. How they got permission to build on a pit I will never know. I can remember the work faces collapsing about 1975 one morning we walked the dog over a flat field the next there was a 100 foot long 30 foot deep hole! But I'm wandering the gist was that may be and this a big maybe, Birkbys had some kind of connection with the mining industry? If so then its possible that it might be a colliery name? The old collieries were sods for marking things to discourage theft. Cant think of one that it could be though.
I hope you dont mind but I ran this past my mum last night. She used to work at one of the Bradford College libraries. She suggested trying Central Library in Bradford they might still be holding company catalogues. Failing that she suggested the Chamber of Commerce? some times they kept the same sort of thing.
Glad to have been of some help -
Message 13
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Hi bttdp,
Please thank you mum for her interest, but the Central Library and I are already well acquainted. They have a valuable series of trade directories since the late 18th century through which you can track the rise and fall of producers. Sadly none have a name that naturally produces the BCC mark.
Upstairs the very helpful Bradford portion of the West Yorkshire Archives have some wonderful plans and documents. They have a directors report from the Bradford Brick & Tile Company which is exactly the type of document she had in mind. To be honest I think I need another clue!
I tried Googling various combinations of Etoc Pit Westhoughton without any success. Your TV is going really puzzle an archaeologist in a few centuries! I don't think you need to postulate a connection between a mine in Lancashire and a brick-works in Yorkshire. I went to the Cleveland Ironstone mining museum at Skinningrove. There are innumerable bricks there, mostly made on site I imagine. I could only identify one brick-mark which was 'Whitaker Leeds' another famous Yorkshire producer.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 14
Posted by MB (U177470) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Did the Bramley Brick Company mark their bricks?
-
Message 15
Posted by MB (U177470) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Oooops, my fault!
That is 主播大秀 not BCC.
Sorry -
Message 16
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Hi JMB,
There was certainly a Bramley Brick works? Was the owner the Bramley Brick Company as a matter of interest?
TP -
Message 17
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Tuesday, 20th January 2009
Re Etoc, this is how grandad spelt it. apparantly the bloke who wrote the roadsigns splet it Eatock.
I found it on google maps using "eatock way westhoughton lancashire england"
The old drainage shaft is the roughly triangular area of water about the middle of the Hoskers The wall was about 20 or so feet to the right as you look at it -
Message 18
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Wednesday, 21st January 2009
Hi bttdp,
Thanks. Got it now.
TP -
Message 19
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Wednesday, 21st January 2009
Have you checked out "Butterley" TP?
My house is built with Butterly Old English Rustics, they had lots of brickfields in Yorkshire I think. -
Message 20
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 22nd January 2009
Hi Haesten,
Now that's an interesting idea. Butterley were a huge concern and existed for about 200 years before joining with the London Brick Company to form Hansons. I associate them more with Derbyshire than Yorkshire but at their peak they owned quarries, collieries, brick-works and engineering shops.
There are certainly some aspects of your theory that would fit very well. Butterley would be easily big enough to supply massive orders for large buildings. Derby and Bradford were connected by the Midland Railway Company, so moving the bricks would be easy.
The question is what would the [BCC] brick-mark have represented? Latterly the 'brick arm' of the company was known as Butterley Brick Company, which would have produced 主播大秀. Earlier the whole concerned was simply Butterley Company so a hypothetical 'Butterley Company Clay-products' might produce BCC.
I'll try emailing the Silk Mill Museum in Derby. If you are correct the brick-mark should be fairly common in that city. Any posters from Derbyshire reading?
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 21
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Thursday, 22nd January 2009
TP
Butterly Coal Company would fit but I'm only guessing.
My bricks came from Northallerton cica 1980, pre Hanson, they don't have frogs, they have three holes, I can't remember what they were marked with but I have a couple spare somewhere and I'll take a look. -
Message 22
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 22nd January 2009
Hi Haesten,
I've dispatched an enquiry to Derby Museums; I'll let you know if I hear anything. Your bricks are perforated wire cut bricks which are probably post 1970s. I have tried to love them(they are bricks after all) but the Victorian products seem superior in many respects.
Thanks for your suggestion,
TP -
Message 23
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Thursday, 22nd January 2009
TP
You mean "stock" bricks, Milton Hall not far from me which a lot of Victorian London was built from (yellow stock) was still in production in the early 80s, bought by Hanson like Butterly, closed in the 90s I think.
Stocks are the same texture all through with two faces, they usually have frogs which means individual molds, but I've seen plenty with out, that could have been made in a big mould then wire cut to size before firing.
You get firsts, then second hard and finally third hard stock which are all shapes, then you are left with big chunks of clinker which the Victorian's used to build a lot of garden walls from.
Milton Hall red stocks (separate brick field) used to mix in some of the near seconds, they were a darker red and quite a bit smaller from the extra heat.
Btw, do you know the difference between an Essex peg tile and a Kentish peg tile? -
Message 24
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 22nd January 2009
Hi Haesten,
'Stock' has had a number of meanings in brick-making. The wooden shape that was nailed to the moulder's bench and which formed the frog in a hand-made brick was called a stock. The famous grey-yellow bricks made in London from brick-earth and refuse were called 'London stocks'. The word is now often applied to the cheapest common bricks available in any locality. But I have seen the word in an agreement dated as early as 1718.
Hand-made bricks could have a frog, but only machine-made pressed bricks had two. There were several manufacturing techniques. In one the stiff clay paste was extruded from a mould and then wire cut into 10-12 plain bricks. These were then pressed manually to form the frog and apply the brick-mark. In other techniques the paste was injected straight into a mould and then pressed (often the bricks were then removed and re-pressed).
Over-fired bricks are harder and more vitrified. They could be used where they would eventually be covered.
I'm afraid that tiles have rather passed me by since stone and then slate were the preferred roofing materials in my part of the north.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 25
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Thursday, 22nd January 2009
TP
The London stocks were made down river and taken to London on the famous Thames sailing Barges, they are bright yellow when new but darken to almost black with age.
A second hand yellow stock is about the dearest brick you can buy.
One of the local brickfield owners (Eastwood) in the 18th century also owned the largest fleet of Thames Barges, one of his brickfields was still going strong when I was at school.
A Kent peg tile has two holes, an Essex one (might be the other way around) the peg was originally oak and they are made of clay the same as a brick. -
Message 26
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hand-made bricks could have a frog, but only machine-made pressed bricks had two.
听
TP
When you say two frogs I presume you mean top and bottom, frogging a brick (laid frog down) is a hanging offence. The only double frog bricks I can recall are the ceramic glazed face bricks that the Victorians used for public conveniences for example. These were laid with a very fine lime mortar with joints of no more than an eighth of an inch. -
Message 27
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hi Haesten,
Well, several interesting points there. Glazed fire-clay bricks are beautiful objects when looked at individually. They don't show to best advantage in a Victorian public loo.
By 'frogs' I mean the central depressions on the upper or lower faces of the brick. In a single frog brick I call the frogged face the 'upper' face. If there are two depressions then the deeper frog (which is usually the one carrying the brick-mark) is upper. Many Victorian common bricks have two frogs, presumably to reduce the weight of these fairly massive objects.
Clearly you believe that bricks should be laid frog up. This is exactly the advice I have been given by a modern brick-layer. (In a double-frogged brick the deeper frog is up.) The only problem with this is that I have been able to examine some Victorian walls where all the frogs are down!
You would think that the important thing is for loads to be transmitted evenly from brick to brick. This requires that frogs should be filled with mortar and this must be easier if the frogs are up. On the other hand masonry walls built today (as skins of steel framed buildings for example) are often not load bearing walls. Water penetration and resulting freeze-thaw damage may be considered a greater problem and this could be worse with frogs up and able to accumulate water.
Modern perforated wire-cut bricks have no frogs of course.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 28
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hi Haesten,
All praise to the Derby Silk Mill Museum; they reply promptly to enquiries. Unfortunately they say:
"I am doubtful as to whether 鈥淏CC鈥 indicates the Butterley Company. We have a number of Butterley bricks in our collection and they are inscribed variously 鈥淏UTTERLEY // PRESSED鈥, 鈥淏UTTERLEY // WAINGROVES鈥, BUTTERLEY // KIRKBY鈥 and 鈥淏UTTERLEY // CO LTD鈥, but none BCC."
What I found very interesting is that the museum has 500 marked bricks in its collection but no BCC. I have seen 20-30 examples in Bradford. This does suggest that the brick is local to West Yorks as bttdp suggested.
I'll keep trying and thanks for the suggestion!
TP -
Message 29
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Do you know where the bricks came from TP?
Often the big country estates made their own bricks, walled gardens etc. -
Message 30
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hi Haesten,
I believe many of the museum's bricks were colliery bricks. You can see a picture of a small selection:
Most of the Victorian pressed bricks in the Midlands and North were made from ground up shale, this being one of the products of the Coal Measures. A great many collieries had their own kilns. Fire-clay was the 'seat earth' of many coal seams. There was a considerable industry round here making firebricks, glazed bricks and 'sanitary ware'.
My great great grandfather was a brick-maker in Sussex. There, in the winter when there was no farm work, he would hand-make and clamp-burn sufficient bricks for your new cottage or whatever. This is much more like the situation you describe. There was a real regional difference here based on geology. Peterborough and Bedford were different again as you know.
There is simply no end to the fascination of bricks!
TP -
Message 31
Posted by TheodericAur (U13724457) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hi TP
There is quite a bit of information about the cinema you referred to:
Bradford - New Victoria/Gaumont/Odeon on this web site:
which is a restoration site and has a huge number of details but not about the BCC brick mark.
Interestingly this cinema was state of the art and there was a huge pride in the fact that nearly all the materials were sourced locally and it took 500 men to build it.
The architect William Illingworth FRIBA designed a few cinemas prior to this.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes - TA -
Message 32
Posted by TheodericAur (U13724457) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hi TP
Completely off the wall but could the bricks for these large projects be msde by a number of smaller brickworks but actually provided under an umbrella group - perhaps the Bradford Chamber of Commerce?
Best Wishes - TA -
Message 33
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 23rd January 2009
Hi TA,
Thanks for the suggestion but I've already encountered Colin Sutton's excellent website on Bradford's Cinemas. At least as a result I know where the glazed bricks came from. I think the truth is that common bricks have never received the attention that has been devoted to other building fabric elements.
I had a think about umbrella groups. Until I found out that the bricks were used in the Odeon I wondered if they might have been made for the Bradford Cemetery Company, who ran the famous Undercliffe Cemetery. The problem is that I have not encountered a single parallel example. All the brick-marks I know consist of the maker or place of manufacture or both.
Please keep making suggestions: the truth, as they say, is out there!
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 34
Posted by TheodericAur (U13724457) on Saturday, 24th January 2009
Hi TP
This is most probably not worth worrying you about but you did ask for suggestions.
The British Ceramic Confedaration, as you know is a body representing ceramics in this country including bricks - founded in 1890ish. Could they have been involved at all?
Kind Regards - TA -
Message 35
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 24th January 2009
Hi TA,
Keep the suggestions coming by all means, but I've thought of that one too. It works in terms of dates but I think it is inconceivable for the end of the 19th century.
With your interest in Dark Age history you will be surprised to learn how difficult it can be to unravel a historical problem only 150 years old. I haven't even worked out exactly who did what and when within a mile of my own home. One of the problems is that clay and fireclay concessions were offered on short term leases by land owners. Often there seems to have been no paper-work.
This can't be the problem with the BCC brick. Those initials must have stood for something; but what?
Regards,
TP -
Message 36
Posted by TheodericAur (U13724457) on Saturday, 24th January 2009
Hi TP
I appreciate the comparisons between the Dark Ages and West Yorkshire 150 years ago, I have problems with the sixties - and I lived through them...
Regarding your thoughts about the Cemetery Company being responsible for bricks apart from the volumes. The Theatre took 2,000,000 bricks in 6 months so the BCC brick works must have been sizeable for those volumes.
Two areas that use a huge number of stock bricks are steel works (for furnaces or soaking pits) and coking works.
I understand that there was a thriving coking industry in Bradford. Could this be the BCC - Bradford Coking Company?
Kind Regards - TA. -
Message 37
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 24th January 2009
Hi TA,
Most industrial premises use huge numbers of bricks. Steel works certainly, but also collieries, textile mills (fireproof floors) and railways (for tunnel linings and bridges).
Actually 1,000,000 bricks is not that large. Even a single skilled maker of hand-made bricks (and his boy) could make 1,000 green bricks each day.
In a recession one Bradford pressed brick maker (Bradford Brick & Tile Company) accumulated 3 million bricks at one of their works.
For a single large project a contractor might purchase bricks from more than one source. The number of producers was amazing. The very helpful people from the Silk Mill Industrial Museum, Derby have been in contact with me again. They apparently have 50 different bricks actually on display, with another 500 in their stores! Imagine that scaled up to national level.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 38
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Saturday, 24th January 2009
Re: Message 37.
Twinprobe,
our neighbour in Ostend was a brick maker. The bricks were still dried in the sun before baken in a closed furnace. During the vacancies I worked sometimes turning the bricks by hand to face the other side to the sun. The bricks were in racks of I think about ten above each other and from the sun drying stand the racks were put on a little lorry on rails to drive them in the oven.
I and my father had also to "water" the slope of the clay to not dry out during the weekend, so that mondays the "machine" could work again on the clay slope...
All interesting stuff for me you talk about overhere...
Warm regards,
Paul. -
Message 39
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 24th January 2009
Hi Paul,
The Low Countries are famous for their bricks and floor tiles. In the late medieval period Flemish craftsmen were responsible for re-introducing brick making skills to Britain.
Hand-made bricks were sun dried on a timber structure which was locally called a 'hack'. The machine made brick producers used a covered drying shed with a heated floor. This drying process used expensive fuel so there was economic pressure to employ a stiffer clay mixture and reduce, or eliminate, the time taken for drying.
You don't remember what type of kiln your neighbour used for burning his bricks I suppose?
Thanks for your interest.
TP -
Message 40
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Sunday, 25th January 2009
Actually 1,000,000 bricks is not that large. Even a single skilled maker of hand-made bricks (and his boy) could make 1,000 green bricks each day.
听
One good brickie could lay that many a day, I think the record is something like 1,000 in an hour.
One of the Bedfordshire brick fields has just shut down with a half billion bricks in stock. -
Message 41
Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Sunday, 25th January 2009
Paul
A lot of Belgian bricks were imported into the UK in the late 80s when Lord Hanson was buying up all the local UK brickfields (suspiciously causing the price to rise due to shortage)
The UK brickwork gauge of 4 to the ft was changed to metric in the early 60s (4 to 300mm), some of the Belgian bricks had to be laid to a 13 and half inch gauge like most of TP's Victorian bricks I suspect. -
Message 42
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Thursday, 29th January 2009
Re: Message 41.
Haesten,
thank you very much for your reply and excuses for the delay (had a lot of "things" to do).
Hmm, now I see that I wanted also to answer to another message of you and as it is in the number 1 of the thread, I will lose my message if I have a look on that first part 1 of the thread. I will answer on your message in that part one in another reply.
BTW: I don't quite understand, what you mean with brickwork gauge. I have laid a lot of bricks for my own house and later for other houses. I have the bricklaying learned during vacancies as a student.
Is the gauge the height of the brick? 4 to the ft is reasonable to me that's the height of a "boerebrick" (a farmer's brick), with which I mostly worked before the industrial sizes of 2 in a ft height appeared. 13 1/2 inch? I have never heard of that. The new industrial size, that we called "quickconstruct" (snelbouw) were about as said 4 in a ft height (or 2 in a ft height) and width 9 cm or 14 cm. I think that the gauge of the height was also not 2 in a ft but 14 cm.
The "older" "farmer's brick" was very expensive as it wasn't produced anymore and was taken from "cleaned" old bricks. I "cleaned" them also for own work mostly with a "trowel".
Had a lot of difficulties to find the word "trowel", as it doesn't exist in my Dutch-English dictionary. We say "truweel" and although it is also official Dutch, but South-Dutch I had to seek in another Dutch "explaining" dictionary for another word for "truweel" and that was "troffel". That way I found in my Dutch-English dictionary the word "trowel".
I "cleaned" also the old bricks with a small axe. And these old-Flemish very expensive farmer's bricks were if I recall it well about 7.5 cm height and about 23-25 cm long and I think 11 till 12 cm width.
I cleaned even more expensive old small bricks, that we called "Pape briekjes" (I am nearly sure it comes from "paap" (pope) meaning I think something to do with the church?) Will do some research for it. (I think they were 19 cm length, 5 cm height and 7 to 6 cm width.
If you really are interested in "bricks" I am sure you will read it all!
.
Warm regards,
Paul. -
Message 43
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Thursday, 29th January 2009
Re: Message 40.
Haesten,
"one good bricky could lay that many a day, I think the record is something like 1,000 in an hour"
I wasn't a skilled bricklayer (we call it a "metser" or in our South-Dutch a "metsenaar"), but in a full (without doors or windows) one and 1/2 wide wall as for "fundaments" I could lay with a "boy" (we call it a "diender" (a "server"?)) some 400 an hour (farmer's bricks: size 7 cm heigh, 19 cm long and 9 cm wide)...
Warm regards,
Paul. -
Message 44
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Thursday, 29th January 2009
Re: Message 39.
TwinProbe,
"kiln"?
As said the bricks were dried outside in the sun on racks. The "kiln" was a "closed" oven (some mile further there was an "open" oven, where the dried bricks were piled in a quadrangle stock some 6 meters high (it can also have been 8 m high), some 8 m wide? and some 20 m long? Between the bricks there were layers of coal which were set on fire afterwards. The quality of an open oven was not that good and it was also expensive).
Our neighbour's closed oven, was built I think in the inner side in fire resistant bricks and I was in the innerside when it was out of service and I think the walls were about 5 feet thick, with holes in it to fill the oven. It was built like a "fortress" I saw once in Antwerp. The vault had several small channels to a large chamber above it with tiles. On each "channel" there was a kind of an iron "flap" to regulate the burning of the bricks on the several corners (sites?) of the oven. I was many times with the old "surveyor" of the "flaps", which were also watched during night and he opened or closed the "flaps" according to his "experience".
Later the son of the boss of the brickworks introduced a "drying hall" for the bricks, instead of the "sun-drying", heated by fuel burners and he introduced a lot of new machinery, but the clay layer was at the end to far from the oven. He had to go even with a bridge over a small river to reach another clay field. The clay layer was about 1.8 m (6ft) thick. I know it while it was about my height.
He later closed the oven and went over to sand blasting and zinc spraying. After his pension I don't know for what exact reason he sadly suicided himself.
Warm regards,
Paul. -
Message 45
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Thursday, 29th January 2009
Addendum to message 42.
Haesten,
Mods it is in Dutch, bit it is only a site on the several types of bricks with photographs among others about the so-called "paepe" bricks:
Haesten I found also a site from Belgium about all types of bricks in four languages, also in English, with the method and the ingredients of teh differrent bricks, but I post this first.
Warm regards,
Paul. -
Message 46
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 30th January 2009
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the information. The 'open' kiln you describe sounds like the type that in Britain was called a 'Scotch' kiln. These were easy to construct and didn't require a chimney to produce draught. But, as you say, they were very expensive in fuel and were difficult to control.
The closed kiln sounds like a 'Newcastle' type horizontal draught kiln, although it is difficult to be certain. Most Victorian producers of pressed bricks had a 'drying hall'. To minimize the use of fuel for heating, which was an expensive element of the whole process, they experimented with drier 'pastes' to make the bricks.
I envy your experience!
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 47
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 2nd February 2009
Re: Message 46.
Twin, thanks for the reply. See you.
Cheers, Paul. -
Message 48
Posted by Sir Gar Hywel dda (U13786187) on Friday, 6th February 2009
TP,
What an interesting subject. Do you collect them as well?
I don't relate to the northern bricks, a little to the London ones, but generally I do relate to the
Portland stone, which built Whitehall and a good many houses round here.
I always like to build garden walls with seconds; my old septic tank has such strong bricks they are
very hard to prize about or break up.
Portland stone/Purbeck stone is another topic all together, and there is a long social history to the people of Portland works as well.
The subject of bricks makes me think it would be worthwhile setting the subject of Glass over the last four hundred years but not so much the collectibles eh?! -
Message 49
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 6th February 2009
Hi Sir Gar,
I do collect bricks; the existence of a marked brick which can't be related to a known brick-works is often a useful clue that a brick-works (or an owner) has been completely forgotten.
My main interest is in vernacular architecture; the high quality ashlar from Portland was used for many high status buildings as you say. My ancestors were brick-makers in Sussex, so I relate to bricks in more than one way.
If you start a thread on architectural glass I may just contribute.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 50
Posted by Sir Gar Hywel dda (U13786187) on Friday, 6th February 2009
architectural glass听
Some more recent architecture impossible without it.
About this Board
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or 听to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
主播大秀 iD
主播大秀 navigation
主播大秀 links
主播大秀 漏 2014 The 主播大秀 is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.