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Some heated debate?

• Message 1. 

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Wednesday, 24th August 2011

  
  Displacement of Europe's indigenious hunters by farmers:
  
  
  Kind regards to all,
  
  Paul.

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Wednesday, 24th August 2011

  I found this in a debate about the last hunter-gatherers in Europe on a French forum:
  
  Does that add something to the discussion?
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Paul.

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Poldertijger (U11154078) on Friday, 26th August 2011

  Hello Paul,
  
  Thank you for the messages. They show that agriculture developed in South-East Europe as a means for man to adapt to climatic change and that it later became known in the Northern parts of Europe through cultural exchange.
  
  Regards,
  Poldertijger

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Friday, 16th September 2011

  Poldertijger,
  
  a belated thank you for your interest.
  
  Kind regards and with esteem,
  
  Paul.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Saturday, 24th September 2011

  Hello Paul, tricky isn't it. I found this article by Peter Rowley-Conwy that covers much of archaeological evidence in Central and Western Europe.
  
  
  
  I think that although the age estimates from the modern distribution of certain Short Tandem Repeat Loci now appear to be significantly lower than first indicated and the degree of diversity seems to have evened out between Anatolia and Western Europe the basic premise that the spread of agriculture was aided by migration still holds true. In that sense the headline of the Ö÷²¥´óÐã article may well be a little sensational as what appears to be challenged is not so much the model as the notion that one can make such precise statements about the chronology of migration from the distribution of specific STR loci in the modern population. To start with it was probably a little naïve to assume that such genetic markers were entirely neutral and there were not any other selection factors at work. The study therefore supports the growing body of evidence that historical populations had significantly different genetic distributions compared to their modern counterparts. This begs the question what selective pressures were operating on the population at different times to arrive at the distribution of these markers.
  
  As we have discussed before, it is possible to assign the spread of agriculture in central Europe to a unified cultural grouping and even possibly identify the mitochondrial N1a haplotype with the LBK cultural package, especially as closely related branches have been identified in Neolithic burials at Alfold in the Carpathian basin in the cradle of the LBK right across to the extremities of its range in Northern Germany and the Seine basin. Despite how common the haplotype appears to be across Central Europe it is relatively rare today highlighting the apparent genetic discontinuity between the ancient and modern groups. Actually there appears to be a much greater level of heterogeneity across different European Neolithic populations than is found among modern Europeans for that matter. The genetic material extracted from the Carpathian burial site revealed several novel haplotypes that are very rare in the modern population, further emphasising the degree of genetic discontinuity with modern European populations. In particular, the N9a mitochondrial lineage is more commonly associated with modern East Asian populations. While the N1a lineage has been tentatively linked to a possible West Asian origin and its spread can be linked to a founder effect, the N9a result is not what anybody expected to find.
  

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Sunday, 25th September 2011

  lol,
  
  thank you very much for your elaborated reply.
  
  "As we have discussed before,..."
  Indeed great discussion last year:
  
  
  Kind regards and with great esteem,
  
  Paul.

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