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Mat: It's on every summer and we always wonder if a disabled person's going to be in it. I'm of, of course, talking about channel four's genre-busting reality TV show Big Brother. And exactly where were you between June and September if you didn't see Mikey and Darnell?
Liz: Yeah not just one but two of our lot in there and they're with us now. Michael Hughes is on the line from Scotland.
Mikey: Hiya Liz, hi Matt…
Liz: Hello.
Mat: Hi there.
Mikey: … it's an honour to be here on the Ö÷²¥´óÐã podcast.
Liz: Ah yes it's an honour to have you. And Darnell Swallow, with us here in the studio in London. Hello.
Mat: Hi Darnell. Anyway for anyone who didn't see it Mikey is blind is Darnell is a, well it says in the script "black fella with Albinism" we can argue about the terminology of that for years, but I think you know what we're saying if you don't mind us putting it like that, which also means he's visually impaired - it goes with the territory.
Liz: So watching from home guys we were bowled over when not one but two disabled people in the house. This was big news…
Mat: Ah it was amazing.
Liz: … big news!
Mat: Yeah!
Liz: Did it cross your minds in the same way on that first night, did you think, "Oh my God there's another one in here?"
Mikey: Well Darnell's got a story. Tell them your version of me, what did you first think of me, Darnell, you didn't think I was blind.
Darnell: Well, what else because there was so much scandal and controversy going on in the house at the time with the fake wedding and all, we were thinking man maybe they'll even push the limits and have a pretend blind guy in the house, obviously, that wasn't the case - paranoia living up to the name. But, however, the funny thing about the situation was, was that before we went into the house, obviously, we had to, you know, give all our medical details and all that. And, basically, a couple of days before we actually went in I had… they still didn't know that I was partially sighted - the Big Brother producers and all.
Mat: Tut!
Darnell: And so I confessed that at the last second and they wasn't even really bothered, and I was thinking hmm why… should be up in an uproar because, obviously, that's going to put them in a bad situation if the house isn't adaptable or…
Mat: Yeah.
Darnell: … something happens. Well, obviously, I found out why because I get there and you've got Mikey in there.
Liz: So then it all made sense?
Darnell: Yeah it all...
Mikey: So yous have got…
Darnell: … made sense.
Mikey: … yous have got me to thank for Darnell being on…
Darnell: Yes.
Mikey: … the show. And you know it's weird because Darnell's speaking and I thought Darnell was a black bloke and I had no idea that he was actually… that he'd got white skin because he'd albinism…
Liz: How many weeks ((multiple voices))
Mat: Sorry I'm sinking in a quagmire of minefield of terminology here, ladies and gentlemen.
Liz: Mikey?
Mikey: Yeah.
Liz: I'm wondering, okay, were you a bit, you know, "Oh God I'm not the only disabled person in there?" You know were you a bit put out that you weren't going to get all the blind glory.
Mat: This is ridiculous.
Mikey: This is an absolutely ridiculous question and you should be saying this to Darnell, because Darnell said to me that I stole all his thunder. Why don't…
Darnell: I never said…
Mikey: … you ask Darnell that question.
Darnell: … such words. Do we have any clips?
Mat: We do…
Liz: They're coming up.
Mat: They're coming up later.
Darnell: I don't remember ever saying such thing. I had to have been joking I hope. I'm sure I… no but…
Mat: I think this is a good time for us to have the next audio clip. Some home spun thoughts, perhaps, from Mikey and Darnell on how the general public revere disabled people.
[TV clip]
Darnell: : How come when I sing, people want to come up to me and say 'you're so amazing'? Just because I'm Albino I can't carry a note? That's how I think, it shouldn't be amazing, I don't feel like I have to live up to the pressure of being this great disabled person.
Mikey: Well, it's just like David Blunkett, I remember when he resigned we did this big case on it, it was like 'David Blunkett's so amazing because he's blind and he's a politician'
Darnell: : That's what I mean, people assume that you're a good person, but they don't know, you could be like a piece of trash, blind people and disabled people can be [BEEP] heads too.
Mat: Well we all know that.
Mikey: And they're all here at Ö÷²¥´óÐã Ouch.
Darnell: Representing yes Ouch.
Mikey: I'm one of these guys I knew who I was before I went in the house, I know who I am now, and it's took years and years to get as much confidence, and yeah I mean I've certainly come out the house unscathed as a lot of people say. So yeah I'm just here at Insight Radio and doing my wee bit for blind and partially sighted people as I was before.
Mat: Good and Darnell, you know, you were talking about unhappy or about being who you are - a black person with albinism and stuff. I mean how about you, do you feel…
Darnell: I'm still pretty confused. I think I came out the house just as confused and messed up as I ever was. I think it made it even worse.
Liz: We've actually got a clip, Darnell, of you talking to fellow housemate, Rex, about this.
Darnell: Yeah, uh-ho!
[TV clip]
Darnell: : Everyone's like, 'it's got to be cool to be different.' Being different is like 'I'm gonna wear this shirt because no-one else wears it. This is some 'next' kind of different
REX: You're still very confident
Darnell: : That's an act dude, because there's no way else I can be, if I'm down and out I can't do shit about it and so I purposely go out, because if I go out with people it'll lift my spirits.
Liz: So have your thoughts on this changed do you think?
Darnell: No that's I honest do believe in all that. I think people's ideas of what 'different' is, is not the same as someone who actually has a disability or does stand out. People don't realise how much fitting in… like fitting in is almost what the world is about, like that's why you have words like 'trend', that's why you have things that are hot, things that are popular. And I don't get it when people sit here and go, "Oh you're different" as if, like I said, I'm different as if, you know, like I'm wearing a funny shirt or something like.
Liz: So it doesn't always feel that that difference is a good thing?
Darnell: Yeah, yeah. And it's not necessarily about, it's not that I feel bad because of it, I just don't feel like it's the way people try to say it as… like, for example, people say, you know, some people actually have the nerve to tell me they don't notice that I have albinism and it's like are you serious? This is a world where you notice if you have a pimple on your nose or a spot…
Mat: Yeah.
Darnell: … on your lip or…
Mat: I think they're trying to show you solidarity by saying that but all that ever does for me when people say, "Mat I don't really notice you've got short arms" I'm like, you know as Liz says in her comedy routine, "Well let's look at the evidence shall we. It's pretty bloody clear from here."
Mikey: So what do you guys love at Ö÷²¥´óÐã Ouch and it's special. And I remember in our last week in the Big Brother final, Darnell, somebody said in your words, we all get attributed words, but somebody described you as 'special'.
Mat: ((Singing)) special.
Mat: special, unique. But listen, listen…
Darnell: What about damn good looking?
Mat: Well yes and with that in mind did you feel that your damn good lookingness was especially attended to with the love of the people when you left the house Darnell?
Darnell: I definitely… it feels that way now that I've come out the house. In all honesty, like I'm having like fun and playing around with it all, but yeah I did gain like a lot of, like I do feel a lot better about myself, I feel much more confident and all that. And I love everyone.
Liz: ²Ñ¾±°ì±ð²â…
Mat: It's beautiful.
Liz: … I've been wondering because at the beginning of the Big Brother series, housemate Mario helped you around a lot yeah? But we got people on the outside were screaming at the TV sets desperate for you to stick up for yourself because he was so patronising. And I just want to play, we've got a clip here of Luke in the dining room and he wanted you to stand up to him, but he had this theory that you were being used as part of Mario's game plan.
[TV CLIP]
Luke: : He keeps harping on about how Mikey's got a disability, I'm sure Mikey's aware he's got a disability and we're all aware Mikey's got a disability, Mikey's more than capable of looking after himself. Mario wanted to put the four of us up for eviction, I'm positive of it, so what was Mario's next target? Hmm, 'how I can be safe with the public, how can I be seen to be the good guy? Oh I know I'll help out Mikey, nobody will ever evict Mario, 'cos who's gonna look after Mickey?
[CLIP ENDS]
So what have you got to say in your defence then Mikey eh?
Mikey: Oh I love it when the word 'game plan' there's still a lot of talk about game plan…
Liz: It's a great word.
Mikey: To be honest, all I know is, I went in the house and within two minutes Mario was the first bloke that showed me round the Big Brother house, an alien environment. I had no idea what was in store. And you know I view that as genuine. He wasn't looking to make himself look good, helping out the poor blind bloke. When I went in, obviously, I do need help and that was the first thing I bore in mind - are these people helping me to make themselves look good? And I can honestly say I don't think Mario was, and certainly Rachel wasn't either. So yeah maybe he was a bit old fashioned in a few things and I took him to one side and I had a word. But, you know, when Mario left I really, really missed the bloke as a genuine friend.
Liz: Look okay, to both of you, Darnell you were fifth, you came out fifth or you know you were one of the last five.
Darnell: Hm.
Liz: And Mikey you were second, almost there, almost there. And I was wondering do you think the fact that you're both blind, visually impaired that's partly why…
Darnell: It better not have been.
Liz: … you went in.
Darnell: I hope not.
Liz: I know you were both great entertainment. But do you think if affected it, could the other housemates not vote you or do you think the viewers couldn't vote for a disabled person?
Darnell: I sure… I… since day one when I first got in the house and the housemates said that they think that me, Katreya or Mikey are going to win and they didn't even know us, that's when I knew that my mission was to not get that vote. And I think I even kind of sabotaged myself a little bit by being sometimes a jerk and saying just off the wall stupid things because I was so… I wanted everyone to see everything about me so that they didn't, you know, give me that vote. Because that vote is the worst vote to get.
Mat: Yeah, word
Mikey: Could I just come in on this as well, I would definitely agree with Darnell and you know I went in the house, I wasn't there to represent blind people, yeah I made a mess of eating, I swore I done this, done that…
Mat: What was all that about the 'ball cup'?
Mikey: I'll tell you what it was all about. That is me and I could have been a stereotypical blind person the same as, who just listens to the TV
Mat: Sorry can I just stop… Mikey?
Mikey: Yeah.
Mat: There's nothing stereotypical about washing your testicles in a cup.
Darnell: And I walked in on that. I made that discovery.
Mikey: Yeah but what I'm saying is I could have chose not to do that, played the blind card, been cute and cuddly not made offensive…
Darnell: Definitely not that.
Mikey: … jokes about guide dogs and probably won the show and yeah I'd be sitting here ((multiple voices))
Liz: Oh let's not talk about the guide dogs.
Darnell: I'd like to hear a guide...
Mikey: And that would've been a game plan that would've been a game plan…
Darnell: … dog joke.
Mikey: … but I went in and have been myself and here I am, I came runner up and at least I can say, "Yeah, yeah I wasn't runner up because people think I was blind or what have you" 300,000 hits of me getting hit in the back of the head…
Mat: Yeah.
Mikey: Over 100,000 hits me eating the hottest chilly in the world that's nothing to do with me being blind.
Darnell: That was funny.
Liz: I think that's it, all you could do and all that you did, from what I saw is you can just go on those things and be yourself can't you…
Darnell: That's right.
Liz: … if you're in reality. You're being watched all the time and you didn't conform to stereotypes it was, you know, and that's what made it, might have made it great viewing.
Mat: And now…
Liz: What?
Mat: Darnell.
Darnell: Vegetable.
Liz: That's coming up.
Mat: No, no nice one no that sounded like it. No we'll do that later. You're heavily, Darnell, into your music and singing.
Darnell: You know.
Mat: Now can we expect to see more of you…
Darnell: To a lot of housemates' dismay.
Mat: And it's been asked, by the team…
Darnell: Yes.
Mat: … amongst whom is obviously a fan, I won't say who it is but I think she's Irish. Can we have a little burst of Cookie Love?
Darnell: Aah man I knew you were going to do that. Why do you do this to me?
Mat: Well it's the burden of celebrity my friend.
Darnell: I'm trying to become a creditable artist here and you want me to sing Cookie Love. Gee whiz!
Liz: Just one last time.
Darnell: Aah that's what they all say.
Mat: You can put it to death and then tell us your musical plans.
Darnell: Can I tell you the musical plans first?
Mat: No.
Darnell: Will you sing along with me?
Mat: Hm never heard it.
Liz: Mikey, Mikey will you sing along?
Mikey: I'm not singing Cookie Love and only duet I can come in is Elton John and Kiki Dee, me and Darnell I'm afraid but I'm not doing Cookie Love.
Darnell: Yeah I'll give you Elton John and Kiki Dee.
Liz: That's fine, I'm quite happy with that.
Mikey: Katreya and Darnell, Cookie Love, me and Darnell, Kiki Dee, Elton John.
Liz: So, Darnell, come on do tell us what are you plans for the future now?
Darnell: Well my single is coming out November 17.
Liz: And it's called?
Darnell: It is called Steelo.
Liz: Steelo okay.
Mat: Ow!
Darnell: And actually it's still working… it's name is still actually name is still a work in progress. It's either going to be Steelo or Shonin. And basically Steelo will be more about me and then Shonin will be more about for the club. But both of them…
Mat: Nice!
Darnell: … are good, respectable, you know production.
Mat: We look forward to it mate.
Liz: We only have unsigned things on here, but if we didn't I'm sure we'd play it. And, Mikey, what are you up to now?
Mikey: Well I'm back here at work at Insight Radio, obviously, I've got my new show on a Friday night at 6:00 o'clock to 7:00 each week.
Mat: So you've had an upgrade.
Mikey: And I'm currently writing an autobiography.
Darnell: No way.
Mikey: We're going to keep it simple, we're going to call it Mikey.
Liz: And Mikey how can we hear you on Insight? You're up there in Glasgow it's a station for blind people yeah?
Mikey: You know we're up here in Glasgow 101FM, but you can her it UK wide via the website insightradio.co.uk. And if you've got a Sky dish outside your house UK wide via channel 0188 and it's especially for, ESPECIALLY for blind and partially sighted people.
Liz: Special. ((Multiple voices))
Mikey: But normal sighted people can listen in, they DO listen and I've got lot of fans followed me after Big Brother.
Mat: Stop, stop talking.
Darnell: Hey Mikey I've got one question for you. Since you've been back to work, do your workmates still hate you as much as they did before you went into the house?
Mikey: You know when the boss said, "Mikey once you get back to work, it'll be the Mikey before you went to work and it's the same Mikey, it's the same office" do you know I came back to work and there was even a computer there ready for me - I'd been away for four months and…
Darnell: Ladies and gentlemen, come back to the Darnell and Mikey show
Liz: Thank you both for coming in. We're hoping you're going to stick around with us and help us play our disability quiz, Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable.
Darnell: Yeah.
Liz: Oh yes, so Mikey and Darnell will be back. Stay tuned podcast listeners. Thank you. Woo-hoo!