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\ltrch\fcs0 \fs24\lang2057\langfe2057\cgrid\langnp2057\langfenp2057 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \b\f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 Ouch Podcast #66 \endash  March 2011
\par bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast
\par 
\par Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 
\par The Ouch Podcast is a download from the 主播大秀. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Thank you for downloading this podcast. It's show 66 for early March 2011 and we've handed over the editorial reins to two younger disabled people; I'm joined by Hannah.}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 
\par HANNAH\tab Hello. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And George. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Hello. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 [Jingle: From the 主播大秀 in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname City}}London{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose} it's the Ouch Talk Show.]
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab 
We've been doing this show, can you believe it, for almost five years now. And over that time we have had a lot of people say we should do one for younger disabled people. So I'm not saying that I'm old, I'm not admitting that, but I am 40 quite soon, 
but we do think that younger people should be part of the show and should be listening. So that's why we've got Hannah and George with us today. So I'm really thrilled. 
\par Hannah, you're 19, what do you do are you a student or are you working?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Yeah at the moment I'm a student at the {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname PlaceType}}University{\*\xmlclose} of 
{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname PlaceName}}Birmingham{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose}.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And what're you studying? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Philosophy and sociology. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab [Intake of breath] Okay. And you are disabled as we say when we do Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable, what is wrong with you? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
What's wrong with me? Quite a bit. I've got a fairly wide array of mental health problems as well as Fibromyalgia and Hypermobility Syndrome and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as well. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Fantastic. Well you know here on Ouch the more the merrier. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Absolutely. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So George you're a little bit younger than both of us, you're 15. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I am 15. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And you've come straight from school today? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I have. Thanks for getting me up early. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Oh right, is that the only reason you're here? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab No, no of course not. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab What did you have today? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I had - you're asking me to remember? }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 I had science, English, food, -}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 
\f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 Science, English, Food and I can't remember. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And your disability credentials? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I was born with Cerebral Palsy. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Okay and you're a wheelie like myself. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I am a wheelie like yourself. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Yes you are. Now look to get to know you better the team have got me, they've devised some clever quick fire questions so I need you to answer speedily okay the first th
ing that comes into your mind. Are you ready?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Right. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Bring it on. 
\par LIZ\tab So one at a time alright? So let's start. We're going to start with you George. Lady Gaga or {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Arcade{\*\xmlclose} Fire? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Arcade{\*\xmlclose} Fire. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Arcade{\*\xmlclose} Fire. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Ah nice. Football or tennis?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Football.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Tennis. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab I love... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Music. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Food. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Hm. I'm outraged by...
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Oh goodness - everything! 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab You're a teenager. Okay me too. George?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab What am I outraged by? People thinking that they're better at everything. And not having,}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
 not really seeing }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 our point of view. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Okay. Yoghurt of sticky toffee pudding, George?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Sticky toffee pudding. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Sticky toffee pudding. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Pancake Tuesdays or {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Orange{\*\xmlclose} Wednesdays?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Orange{\*\xmlclose} Wednesdays.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Pancake Tuesday.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Tomorrow I am going to be... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Tired. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And in school. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Writing the essays I didn't do in reading week. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Oh no. Facebook or Twitter?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Facebook. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab A bit of both. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Bit of both. {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname State}}New York{\*\xmlclose} or {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname City}}Tokyo
{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose}, George?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname State}}New York{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose}. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname State}}New York{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose}. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Your hero is...
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Oh God that's such a hard question. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Quick, quick, quick. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Erm... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Winston Churchill. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Come on, come on.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Stephen Fry. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Stephen Fry. Winston Churchill from a 15 year old boy that's impressive. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I love history and he played a massive role in how {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname country-region}}England{\*\xmlclose} is today or {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname 
place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname country-region}}Britain{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose} is today so we've got to be thankful. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So he's your hero. I'm impressed, I'm impressed. Later on the show we are going to here, George, you had a recent stay at a disabled children's camp yeah? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Yes.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab I can't wait. What's this about? We also have a guest coming in at your request Hannah, go on tell the listeners who it is. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab We've got Alastair Campbell coming in later. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Who of course was Tony Blair's former press secretary and he's been very public about his mental health problems. So we will be... you wi
ll be interviewing him, Hannah, later. You're feeling okay, are you ready? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I'm very, very excited. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Really. Nervous? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab No. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Got the questions ready? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Yeah. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George, it was a long time ago that I was at school as a disabled person, is school cool now if you're disabled? Do you go to mainstream or segregated?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I go to a mainstream school. I'm not ashamed to say I probably stick out like a sore thumb but I quite like that; everybody knows me I have... there's fifteen hund
red pupils in my school and only one disabled person so everybody knows that George is the person in the wheelchair. So it's not as if I'm kind of sitting in the corner doing nothing all day. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So do you like the attention that it gives you? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab There's lots of bonuses to being disabled as far as I'm concerned. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Like?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab 
Like half price at the theatre. You don't have to queue up at theme parks and, I'm sorry to say, but you do get a bit more attention but maybe that shouldn't be what I like because we're all about being treated equally and having an independent life. 

\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Okay. So sometimes it can work in your favour? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab It can work in my favour though. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Hannah what's the best thing about being disabled from your point of view? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
Well for me it's opened quite a lot of doors. I've done a lot of charity work and through that I've had some really good opportunities, like this one, for example. Not many 19 year olds are going to be able to say they've interviewed Alastair Campbell, s
o that's probably the best thing. Also I gain quite a lot from my experiences. I was in hospital for a long time and it taught me a lot about myself, so I feel like I'm a bit more mature than quite a lot of my peers. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So you're in your first year at university? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I am yes. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And do you think that therefore being disabled has kind of prepared you better than a lot of your friends?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
In some ways yes. I mean I had experience of living away from home when I was in hospital for a long time. So in that sense I was... I'm a lot, as I said, I feel I'm a lot more mature than my friends so I think I have a different perspective for dil
emmas than they do. But I still have the same problems, you know, I'm not very good at cooking. And in a way it's made it more difficult because it wasn't just kind of a normal 18 year old going to university, I had a lot of other things I had to think ab
out and preparations to make. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George what for you, are you going to... what's your plans next after school? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I'm going to my school sixth form and then I will try and get into university. I think like Hannah just said that as a disabled person y
ou are much more mature than the majority of young children... young adults. And I have learnt very quickly because my Mum kind of said, "Jump in the deep end and swim" so I've become very independent and that's the way I like it. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab I have to ask you about this that I hear from the person that did the research about you that you live in a house with four floors?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I do live in a house with four floors. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Is there a stair lift or a lift at all?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab No. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Have you seen anything other than the ground floor?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab 
I have seen all four floors and I do on a regular basis. And I have to say without having a four storey house I would not be mobile and, honestly, it has changed my fitness and, honestly, my consultant said to me last year, he said to
 me, "It's a miracle that you're as mobile as you are" and I say that's because of my four storey house. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab That's a novel approach to independence isn't it? It's a bit of the throw the person in the deep end and they'll learn to swim kind of thing in a way I guess. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab That's the way we like it - being cruel to be kind. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 
[Jingle: Narrow casting to the scroungers, benefits cheats and idle led swingers of the UK the Ouch Talk Show goes out twice a month, not even on proper broadcast radio, but over the
 internet. Go to bbc.co.uk/podcast click on entertainment and you'll find us in there.]
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So we're going to concentrate on you George for a minute. Last week you went to camp for disabled people where you focused on communication and teamwork. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Yes.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab We went down to see how you got on. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 
[Clip: My name's George Fielding and I'm here at a camp in Dalton House and it's my third day. I never really get a chance to meet up with people in wheelchairs that I agree with and are in the same situation as 
me, so this is really the only opportunity that I get to do that
\par .
\par Instructor: You have to base your story around.......
\par 
\par This is another Whizz Kid ambassador, David, yesterday we did a lot of sport with each other. 
\par 
\par David: Yeah well the first game we played was Botcher and that's like bowls. 
\par 
\par George: He was very good at that.
\par 
\par David: Yeah. And then the second game was like really crazy. 
\par 
\par George: What it was was a kind of a more contemporary and fun version of catch, because you know catch is very boring and very primary school. 
\par 
\par David: But more violent sort of thing. 
\par 
\par George: And it turned into a more catch/slash wheelchair rugby kind of thing and it did turn a bit competitive and a bit violent, but we didn't hurt anyone, no one was hurt in the process. 
\par 
\par We need a camp about communication and teamwork purely because ma
ny of us have personal assistants.  A lot of people here told me that when they take a shower they need to describe to people where they want washed and where they want their towel, where they want their wheelchair - you can get in a lot of awkward situat
ions. If you can work with them easier you can do a lot more and establish a better friendship. It's all with a view to an independent future. 
\par 
\par Tonight, right now we are in the Oscars party which is like the big celebration because it's the last night at t
he camp. There's people come as Indiana Jones, there's the Tin Man, there's a lion, it's not often we have a chance, as a group, to meet up with a bunch of disabled people and be as independent as we have been. So it's brilliant.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab A week's camp you survived like that George?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Only just on a lack of sleep but yes. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Was it an amazing experience?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I have to say I was a bit tentative going into it but I did know everybody that ran it because I am ambassador of the charity that run it, Whizz-K
idz, so I knew everybody and I knew I'd have a great time, but I didn't know I'd be successful in being that independent, as in I didn't know I'd be so... it would be so successful and so helpful for me. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab What really interested me, you mention it in yo
ur clip that you said like you don't often meet disabled people and you said when you were talking about school you're pretty much the only disabled person there, so was it really good, did you enjoy being with disabled people or were you a bit wary of, y
ou know, they're a bit like me but they're not quite - was it a good thing or bad?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I'm not ashamed of who I am and I'm not ashamed of anything, and so it was great in that sense that we were all happy, we were all independent and we all think our lif
e is the best life that is possible and we wouldn't change anything for the world. But I have to say I was tentative going into it because being from a mainstream school, fifteen hundred people and I'm the only one, you know, sadly this is the kind of the
.
.. this is a strange situation for me. If you put me in a group of people who are able-bodied, it's easy for me because I spend 90% of my time like that. But I loved it. Everybody there has become great friends with me, Facebook, Twitter we're all friends
 and I wish to go on the next one. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So are these going to be like regular things and do you think everyone should go on one, all young disabled people?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I believe that all young disabled people should go on these camps because I do believe that it
 is our duty and people that look after ourselves' duty to make us as independent as possible. And every disabled person can have a successful life. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab One of the ways they did that, I thought this was great, the camp taught you wheelchair skills, you so
rt of talked about that a little bit. I've got no idea I've never been on a course for that, what did you learn in wheelchair skills? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Well it's not... Actually the wheelchair skills scheme is nationwide so you don't actually have to go to a camp to
 enjoy a day of wheelchair skills, they're run by Whizz-Kidz. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And it's not all wheelies and that kind of like...
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab No. It's getting up curbs. Our instructor showed us how to get into a car. Our instructor just showed us how he manoeuvres and how 
he gets around on a day to day basis. And, to be honest, he made everything look easy. But I don't think any of us struggled because 90% of us were in wheelchairs, but a lot of us didn't have the upper body strength to do this on a long term basis. So tha
t kind of helped us with our endurance and stuff like that. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And did they help you then look for solutions like well if you can do it that way there's other ways of doing it, did you leave with lots of sort of top tips in a way? 

\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab We were all very
 good at tackling problems and we had, by the end of the week, we had no problems at all. So the morale of the story is that with the wheelchair skills we went in there with certain issues and I can now, and everybody can who was there, use their wheelcha
ir independently. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab 
Brilliant. Thanks for explaining it. We're going to have details on the website so if you're listening to this and think, "Oh my God I want to find out more" we're going to have details of these Whizz-Kidz camps on the website - you know where we are. 

\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 
[Jingle: If you're looking for info about this show you can find it in the show notes. There's links to things we mention, gossip and more. It's all on our blog which you can find via bbc.co.uk/ouch. That's bbc.co.uk/ouch.]
\par Alastair Campbell is with us now. Thank you, Alastair, for coming in. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Pleasure. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab 
Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair's former press secretary, former journalist, novelist, broadcaster, strategist, family man - well we've got you in today by the request of Hannah, she's helping edit our show and Hannah, why did you want to meet Alastair?

\par HANNAH\tab I wanted to meet Alastair because for a while I've known about him having mental health problems. As a young person who has mental health problems myself, I'm always inte
rested to observe and speak to older people who've also been very successful in their careers to see how they've managed, the issues they've faced, kind of to get information from them in a way to help me as I'm quite career driven. And also to, hopefully
, inform people who don't know that much about mental health that it is possible to be successful and to live a 'normal' life whilst still having this kind of disability. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So what's your first question for Alastair? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab My first question is that you
've described yourself as an obsessive and your partner says that you worked seven days a week, 24 hours a day when you were at  Downing Street, so do you think your career path has been the healthiest choice for you or...?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab No I don't think... and also not just my political career path my journalism career path wasn't very healthy either. In fact I think I got... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE Very stressful?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab What? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par GEORGE Very stress}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ful
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Well it was also I drank too much
 and I think that was when I realised that I had a problem when I was... I loved being a journalist I really loved it, I was full on the whole time, but I got into... developed a drink problem, then had a breakdown, and it was coming out of the breakdown 
I
 think that I realised that a lot of the stuff that I'd had in my head before, which I'd never really identified I'd just kind of lived with it and probably drank and worked in part to sort of keep it at bay, was probably what I now define as having depre
ssion. 
\par But it's interesting what you said in your introduction because when I had my breakdown I found that I was interested in other people who'd been through similar experiences and kind of lived to tell the tale. I mean you do know of people who don't l
ive to tell the tale and you know people who really are in a bad way for the rest of their lives, and of course, you know, some people decide to take their own lives. But I think it is important that the more open we are about our own issues and problems 
t
hen the more we can hopefully help other people who are struggling with the same things. And often it's the feeling of solitude and the feeling of loneliness and the feeling that you can't... you think you're the only person who's kind of got these proble
ms that I think sometimes exacerbates them. So I think the more we're open about it the better. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Would you say your career choice contributed to your breakdown? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab I don't know but I think it probably did yeah. But I don't regret that. I'm gla
d that I went into journalism, I enjoy being a journalist. This will sound really odd, but I'm also glad that I had a breakdown because I used it in a way, I was very lucky, Fiona my partner stayed with me which I think a lot of women wouldn't have done, 
t
o be frank. We had our first child a year later. I stopped drinking. I'd worked out who my friends were which was important. And so I learnt a lot from it. And I think the other thing is I didn't have a choice about being open because when it happened it 
w
as 1986, I jumped onto the political side of the fence in 1994 and of course the press knew about it. Now when I was back being a journalist it wasn't very interesting. Suddenly I was Tony Blair's 'right hand man' and it was interesting and so they starte
d to write about it and I thought, "Sod it I'll just be very open about it" and I've never regretted that. I hated the breakdown at the time but I actually now look back on it as one of the best things that ever happened to me. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I completely agree, t
hat's exactly the way I see my health problems as well. So in 1986 you, as you said, you took time off work after having your breakdown how did you find getting back into work, was it easy, did you find that people treated you differently, did you experie
nce any prejudice or anything like that?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab 
I never felt prejudice but I felt it wasn't easy. I had several months off and then I went back to my old paper, The Mirror I'd left The Mirror to go Today and I went back to The Mirror so I felt comfortable
 and I liked the people there but I felt very, very edgy for quite a long time. In fact the very first story I was sent on it couldn't have been a worse story to go on, it was a terrorist incident at Heathrow, and on the day of my breakdown I'd been throu
g
h Heathrow because I'd flown up to Scotland, and I mean it's too long and complicated a story to tell now but there was a terrorist thing going on then as well, so I was very, very on edge. I ended up phoning colleagues of mine on The Mirror one of whom w
orked in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname City}}Plymouth{\*\xmlclose}, one of whom worked in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname City}}Bristol{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose}
 and I ended up getting them to help me do the story. I basically did it from a phone box at Heathrow because I was really on edge. And it took me a while to get back into the rhythm of it. 
\par I'll tell you what
 I did find difficult was that some of my colleagues, and I don't blame them for this because I think you want people to be like you sometimes I think, and I was trying very, very hard not to drink, it was a very drinking culture and quite a few of them w
ould say, "Come on you can have one" and that sort of thing was quite difficult. But once they all accepted that, you know, I really had to kind of see this thing through they were fine and actually very helpful and very supportive. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab That's great, th
at's really good. So many young people suffer from mental health problems I think it's one in ten young person will suffer from a mental health problem, and then it goes up to one in four as an adult. So what advice would you give to a young person to mai
n
tain, not only like kind of preserve their mental wellbeing, but as a preventative measure as well as a response, so how would you, someone who's been suffering from mental health problems, especially a young person, what would you say to them as advice? 

\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab 
I think it's very hard because everybody's an individual, but I think in general terms all I can do is say what I've found has helped me and what I've learnt from other people's experience that I know. For me, for example, exercise is incredibly i
mportant, that feeling of physical fitness I think is very much tied up with my sense of mental wellbeing. And I think the other thing that, as I said to you earlier, I almost stumbled across this as a strategy but I have found openness very, very helpful
.
 And I don't just mean openness in coming on in front of a microphone and talking to you like this, I mean openness generally; I mean actually being able to say to people like you'd say if you'd... you know, you're walking around on crutches and somebody 
s
ays, "Oh what have you done?" And you say, "I broke my leg, I fell of my bike" "I was playing football" whatever I think to be open and to feel that you're able to say, "Look, you may not understand this but actually I've got this stuff goes on in my head
 
and it's difficult to deal with but it's just kind of part of who I am." And I think if we could all take that attitude both those who have the problems and those who are trying to deal with them... Because I'll tell the thing, I don't know what your expe
r
ience is like with your family, I think families are... it's where you go for the most support but it's also often where you find the most pressure because they really, really want you to be, to use your word earlier, 'normal'. And when I get very, very b
a
dly depressed, I mean I know this and I hate myself for it, but you do feel... I find myself taking it out on Fiona, my partner, because she's the only one that I feel I can completely let go with. Whereas with my children I always probably try to hide it
 a little bit. But actually with them now I tend to be very, very open. I say to them, "Look, you know, I'm going through a bad patch" and they know or they have experience of me going through that and then coming out of it. 
\par And I think that sense of invol
ving them, maybe this is selfish I don't know, but I feel the sense of involving other people in your strategies for dealing with it is important. And also get help if it's there. So many people either feel ashamed or they feel isolated or they feel that 
nobody else is going to understand and actually if you go out and talk to most people they will understand, they will have an understanding even if they've never had direct experience of it. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab It's important isn't it to get the right support definitely. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Yeah. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Can I take this opportunity, I hope you don't mind?
\par HANNAH\tab No. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And just I have to ask you what do you make of the cuts to disability benefits and the current benefit reform really? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Well I think even accepting that the Gove
rnment has to make some difficult decisions, and I think I do, I'm afraid I think they are going far too fast and dangerously in too many areas and without regard to the consequences for individuals. Now sometimes that's just what it's like in government 
y
ou have a overall economic strategy, so their strategy is to get the deficit under control, and that's going to require some tax rises and a lot of public spending cuts. But I think that these cuts are so deep and so difficult that they are going to have 
to face the consequences that they're going to affect people really, really badly. 
\par Now I don't think I can sit here and say they shouldn't be making any cuts to any benefit at all, or that they shouldn't be reviewing some of the benefits as they exist, but
 I think in this, as in so many other areas, I think they're doing it from an ideological perspective, they actually don't need to make the cuts in the sector to the degree that they do. The deficit up to the financial crash was manageable, they've just d
ecided to use the economic crash as an ideological cover to bring about the kind of small state vision that they've always believed in. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Do you think they're going to have an impact on disabled people, on people with mental health problems?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab To 
be fair, Nick Clegg when he spoke about mental health issues recently he said a lot of the right things. However, the right things then have to be translated in terms of policy and a lot of policy in this area it has to be backed up with cash. And whether
 
you like it or not, part of the role of government is to make sure that the most vulnerable are looked after properly. And I worry that with all the other reforms going on in the National Health Service and with all the other cuts agenda that mental healt
h services will go where they've traditionally been which is at the back of the queue when it comes to the demand for funding. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I agree actually, I mean, I think, you know, everyone knows politicians that, you know, most of the time they're all talk and not much action.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Not true, Hannah!
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Sorry I remain to be convinced and actually... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And of course that's politicians of ALL parties, Hannah, isn't it?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Exactly all parties, none in particular, but I have to say actually before,
 you know, when the election was going on and all the campaigning I was very much a Tory, I've been a Tory for a long time and now I am not and will not be voting for a long time because I've completely lost faith in all parties. You know, I completely do
 not agree with what's... I completely agree with what you've been saying, Alastair, about everything. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Vote Labour then Hannah. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Now before... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I don't think I'd have a roof over my head if that happened. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Let's not get into a debate. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Some unscripted questions at the end, as you'll appreciate, but some good ones, thank you Hannah and George totally, but Alastair thank you so much for joining us... 

\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Thanks very much indeed. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab ... it's 
been a pleasure. Alastair's latest book is Diaries Volume 2; Power and the People Two this is the second part of a series of uncut diaries from Alastair's time as press secretary at {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Downing Street{\*\xmlclose}
 during the Blair years. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Yeah but the book, I was saying to Hannah, is All In The Mind. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Fantastic.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab It's about a psychiatrist who has problems. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And that's your novel? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab As most do. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab That's my first novel yeah. As most do indeed. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Most do yeah. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 ALASTAIR\tab Yes. And George I'll send you whatever you want. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I'll have whatever, believe me. Do you see yourself as a good author?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George, come on now! 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 [Jingle: bbc.co.uk/ouch. You can listen, download or subscribe for free to our show by going to the 主播大秀's main podc
ast site at bbc.co.uk/podcasts when you get there click on entertainment and look for Ouch Disability Talk Show.]
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 And listeners what you won't be aware of is that Hannah and George were giving Alastair a bit of a hard time with some informal questioning there weren't you? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Yeah we were, it got a bit controversial.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab We were being very good interviewers. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Yeah you were absolutely. And you're back and it's good to have you back. We asked you to bring in news stories, so Hannah what have you brought in?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
I've brought in a story about a prisoner in Sussex who has not been allowed to finish his jail sentence at home; he has a mental health problem, I think it's a social phobia which is becoming a lot more serious in prison, it's not really d
oing anything to help him, but he hasn't been granted permission to finish his jail sentence at home. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So being in prison is kind of making his condition worse? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab It is yeah. It says he can't actually... He's got a social phobia, as I said, and s
o he can't share a cell, he can't shower, he doesn't go out, he can't go to the canteen to eat food, I think he's currently being housed in the Vulnerable Prisoner's Unit. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Now there might be like some people that would go, "Yeah but we don't really care he's a prisoner, he's done wrong." 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
Exactly. But although yes he committed a crime, he's in prison, the prison still has a responsibility for his health and currently his needs are not being met because he, I think, you know, he's almost being de
prived some human rights because he's not being looked after. His condition is not being accounted for and allowed for and he's in a lot worse place than he was when he entered prison, and I mean that's not really the point of the system. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab But do we know if his mental illness contributed to him committing the crime?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
We don't know it's not said, however, it was ruled that everything, you know, to do with the crime and to do with the prisoner's condition had been considered and it was reasonable
 for him to continue his sentence in prison. However, from what's been said about it he does seem to be suffering a lot, and as I said I think the prison and the service are neglecting their responsibility to cater for the needs of the prisoners. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Yeah. Serious stuff there Hannah.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Absolutely. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Okay. George, how about you what grabbed you? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab 
Mine is rather more light hearted. It's to do with Comic Relief that is coming up on the 18th of March and I was very pleased to hear that some celebrities including Lorraine Kelly, Dermot O'Leary, and Scott Mills are trekking across... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And Peter White.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab And Peter White are trekking across a desert in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}North Kenya{\*\xmlclose}
 to raise money for comic relief and I just wondered how much of the money that they raise is going towards schemes which involve or help young adults with disabilities? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Was there any information about that?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab The article is lacking in information. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And do you think it's a good thing that, you know, celebrities do these things, they sit in vats of beans or they trek across the {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}
Himalayas{\*\xmlclose} and whatever to raise money for charities, is that a good thing? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab 
I do think they have a responsibility as people that are recognised widely. The other side of the coin, the flip side of the coin, is that they're getting publicity from this and it shows that they are nice and love
ly and lovely human beings and how much work are they going to get out of all this publicity? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So maybe they should just give us a percentage of their income then? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Do you know what, I fully agree with you Liz. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I think it's lovely that c
elebrities do this to raise awareness and stuff like that but in a way they're doing it, they are, it's you know it's publicised as, "Oh look this person who's really famous look what they're putting themselves through to raise money for charity" but what
's not covered is the amount of people who aren't in the public eye who do this kind of stuff every day, they don't get any publicity, they don't get any appreciation for it really. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Shouldn't the government be paying for things like this rather than people having to rely on charity for their basic?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Or footballers can donate a good percentage of their wage, which I find outrageous...
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George is applauding. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab This is what actually you know when you did the quick fire round the thing that I would change... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Right. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
The thing that I would change would be the footballer's pay because I think it's absolutely outrageous, I think it's one of the worst things that is happening in the world actually, because what... how on earth can y
ou justify a person getting paid a hundred thousand pounds plus a week? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab The truth is... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab What do you do with all that money? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab The truth is you can't, but what you can say is thousands of men and women their weekend revolves around foo
tball and it revolves around the sport and the occasion, so they are bringing entertainment to the masses, but it is ludicrous and, to be honest, I think they should put a cap on... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I think or... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab A cap on footballer's wages would be... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Or footballers should be forced to donate a large percentage of their wage to the government and therefore cuts wouldn't have to be made. If a footballer donated... 

\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab And you're listening to the George and Hannah show, brought to you by 主播大秀 Ouch. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab 
If every footballer donated, you know, I don't know four weeks' pay of the year to the government and it was spent on instead of cutting think of how that would boost the economy. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Yes. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab You know it's just ridiculous. Yes they do provide entertainment and football is, you know, I'd hate football but I can understand other people enjoy it... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab So rather than cutting disabled people's benefits... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Get footballers to pay for it because you don't realistically... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab We've sorted it all out really haven't we? Sorted it all out.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Realistically you don't need a hundred thousand pounds a week. No wonder they go off the rails and cheat on their wives. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Any particular teams? Anyone we'd like to name?
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Well I think it's good that {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname PlaceName}}Birmingham{\*\xmlclose} {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname 
PlaceType}}City{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose} have beat Arsenal that was good. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Ooh okay. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I am a Charlton Athletics season ticket holder so although it's grass roots football that is that it's grass roots proper football and I go there and I'm an a
vid fan and they put me through all the heartache in the world.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I hate football, I like rugby because I think it's a man's sport and real men do it.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab And we're doing very well in... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Real men do it. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab ... in the rugby. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Rugby{\*\xmlclose}'s great, rugby's great. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab We're doing very well in the rugby and... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Wheelchair rugby? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Very violent. And you never know a rugby player may be listening to this so congratulations you put a smile on my face. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab You do and you don't
 roll around on the floor if you get, you know, stub your toe, you're covered in blood and you still want to play. It's admirable that's what real men should do not roll around when, you know, they break a nail. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab That's not what I do Hannah.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George... 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Okay I'm glad to hear it. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Should we wrap this show up do you think? 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab I could go on for ages but probably.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab I'm enjoying this, Liz, I'm enjoying this. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Come on. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Don't stop it.
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ \tab Reel it on in, come on. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Go and rain on my parade. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Let's end this thing. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Oh right. The production team on today's show were Damon Rose, Dan Slipper and Emma Tracey. Neil Pembleton was the studio manager. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab And you can email the show with anything you like any opinions you've got on what me and George have said at ouch@bbc.co.uk o
r you can join our Facebook page, or find us on Twitter at 主播大秀 Ouch. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab George and Hannah it's been an absolute pleasure to have you. I think me and Mat our days are numbered, personally I think now you've been fantastic. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab You can have us back any day. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab I'm sure we will, I'm sure we will. Our next podcast will be around the 21st of March. Mat will still be away in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname country-region}}
{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname country-region}}Australia{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose} so co-hosting with me is the famous freelance albino, Rob Crossan. Until then goodbye. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 HANNAH\tab Bye. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 LIZ\tab Bye. 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337 
\par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid2166337\charrsid2166337 GEORGE\tab Bye.}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid10761303\charrsid2166337 
\par }}